Rich Johnson claims Bendis left Marvel after David Gabriel, VP of sales...

Rich Johnson claims Bendis left Marvel after David Gabriel, VP of sales, told him at the most recent creative retreat that diversity doesn't sell.

bleedingcool.com/2017/11/07/big-reasons-brian-michael-bendis-left-marvel-dc-comics/

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Post an archive Rich, I'm not giving clicks to your shitty website.

Well it doesn't.

It'll get you praise from people who don't read comics, but not money.

>told him at the most recent creative retreat that diversity doesn't sell.

Would've helped if he told that to the whole staff and then fired them.

archive.is/nplS7

Bendis should have been fired for naming his hip, young black woman character after Rhianna's twitter handle.

Now, Bendis gone. Slott can finally kill off MJ.

Yeah, and then he says, "Now, to be clear, the fight isn’t why he left – but just part of his overall discontent."

So, I guess not actually.

So did Johns did make him a deal he couldn't refuse?

It's frustrating because diversity isn't the problem. It's the awful writing that lazy editors skip through because they think people will support the comics because of diversity no matter the quality.
Their philosophy is: As long as it's liberal it doesn't have to be good

>Oh yes, and DC Comics has offered him a spot at their films/multi-media table, working alongside Geoff Johns, something denied him by Kevin Feige at Marvel.

Rich wants clicks

This.

I love most of the characters they're trying to push (minus the awful decision of turning Cho into the Hulk) but the writing is so godawful that it doesn't matter. They're hiring people purely for agendas and PR, not people with talent or, barring that, passion for the industry. Liefeld sucked but at least he loved comics.

>But Bendis and Pichelli on Zatanna seems a really easy sell, no?
God. Just imagine the conflict of interests in this potential book. Bendis writing faux-feminist bullshit while Pichelli draws proudly italian male gaze in every panel.

>Rich Johnson claims Bendis left Marvel after David Gabriel, VP of sales, told him at the most recent creative retreat that diversity doesn't sell.
Look, I know this is a complete clickbait and speculation article because Rich doesn't really have connections. But they're literally releasing a Miles Morales film next year.

Why would they do that

Bendis was at marvel for 17 years and barely knew shit about marvel characters why would he know shit about DC characters

Well Bendis was part of that problem. I mean, what were the biggest complaints that people had about Riri? She was too perfect, too beloved, and too devoid of character flaws to be compelling. People like Miles, but nobody would disagree that his biggest issue is that he's basically just Peter Parker's Spider-Man with half the personal issues and an even more OP power set.

Hell, Bendis leaving and these characters being bumped down the priority ladder might even be better for them in the grand scheme of things, since it means they have the opportunity to be written by someone who's interested in making them legitimately good characters instead of just OC donut steels.

> the only books that sell are Spider-Man and Star Wars.

Wait I thought X-Men comics too? Are X-Men fans finally stopped being masochists for Marvel?

>Well Bendis was part of that problem.
I mean, yes.
Also shame about Riri. She's super hot and has a great artist backing her up.

One more big-name writer that DC has and Marvel doesn't.

Miles Morales is a Marvel character, they can keep making movies with him and Not-Ganke and all the Bendis characters they want.

>Hell, Bendis leaving and these characters being bumped down the priority ladder might even be better for them in the grand scheme of things, since it means they have the opportunity to be written by someone who's interested in making them legitimately good characters instead of just OC donut steels.
Miles has had not a single good writer in 5 years. Everyone who writes him makes him bland save for Kamala's writer, which made him into a completely different character.
I just find it amazing. Miles had so much thematic potential when he started and he just declined relaunch after relaunch.

Astonishing X-Men is selling well, but that's just a mini-series, not an ongoing. X-Men Blue and Gold are selling about what you'd expect (i.e. around 30-40k), but not exceptionally well.

Honestly, how many writers even count as bigname for non-comic readers? It's pretty much just Bendis and Millar at this point, isn't it?

I'm just astonished because Miles is basically what they've wanted Peter to be for literally decades: Spider-Man in high-school, having to deal with high-school issues. On top of that they have the legacy dynamic with him and him potentially having to deal with survivor's guilt from literally his entire world and everyone he knows dying and him having to live with what're basically just copies of his loved ones.

Instead they just don't really do anything with him.

>People like Miles, but nobody would disagree that his biggest issue is that he's basically just Peter Parker's Spider-Man with half the personal issues and an even more OP power set.

Well, coincidentally, that's why I hate Blackface Peter and think he's a garbage character.

You're part of the problem. Ignoring the fact that she's not even atttactive, that's the worst possible reason you could like a character.

Bendis and Marvel has neutered the X-Men with House of M and his shitty All-New/Uncanny runs. Ike shitting on them doesn't help either.

>House of M
Are people still mad about that? It was 12 years ago.

>Well, coincidentally, that's why I hate Blackface Peter and think he's a garbage character.

He isn't blackface peter parker. Unless you don't read about spider-man story.

>How long do the likes of David Marquez, Stefano Caselli, Sara Pichelli, have on their Marvel contracts? John Romita Jr is already at DC Comics, so is Olivier Coipel (after he’s finished Mark Millar‘s new comic – and yes, Netflix’s decision to delay that announcement as it was too close to the Texas shooting, saw it buried by the Bendis news today). And Alex Maleev is contractless right now…
This is probably the best outcome for a DCfag. You get all these artists with Bendis who'll primarily work with him but can draw other books in the downtime as well as covers.

Who said anything about non readers

For comic readers, Bendis, Johns, Snyder, and now King are big name writers

King made Mister Miracle go up in sales for 2 issues in a row

>I'm just astonished because Miles is basically what they've wanted Peter to be for literally decades: Spider-Man in high-school, having to deal with high-school issues.
That was literally ultimate peter until they decided to kill him
and they didn't have to worry to make peter look bad or offensive because it was a jew writing a jew-ish character
it's frustrating

Also following up, damn people really are jumping from the Marvel ship. Coipel was to Marvel what Reis is to DC. Marvel executives and editorial are definitely wondering what's wrong with them.

dose a writer need to have grown up reading and loving these characters to write a good comic?

Could be a fun dynamic, desu.

Couldn't really say, but it's pretty undeniable that Marvel has been bleeding writers since Secret Wars (Hickman, Fraction, Gillen, Remender, etc). Them losing Bendis is probably a big morale blow for them.

Marquez tweeted like twice today he's not leaving marvel

...

Probably has a long contract then. I would definitely like to see Maleev drawing DC street level characters though, shame it'll be written by Benis if it happens.

If Bendis fails at DC, he's done, he won't have the same priviliges or people kissing ass like he did in Marvel.

So he better go beyond 100 percent and produce something worth reading.

>He isn't blackface peter parker.

That's literally all he is so far.

>Ignoring the fact that she's not even atttactive
gays not welcome
>that's the worst possible reason you could like a character.
I didn't say I liked the character, I praised her looks and the artist who draws her. I don't even read Riri, but I see potential in every character.

People acting like dyke Thor and Miss Muslim are going to disappear.

Think he's up for the challenge, probably a radical change of scenery was needed to lit up that fire again. Even though Defenders read like the Bendis of old.

Bendis also was part of the Marvel Creative Committee for Iron Man 1 through halfway through Civil War. Every movie released in that time did better critically than any of the DCEU movies, Wonder Woman aside.

No, but at least it's a plus when they already don't have any fucking talent. That's why I made a comparison to Liefeld.

The most glaring example was when Rivera was brought in to write America Chavez, a hispanic lesbian, because she was a hispanic lesbian. There was no screening for talent. She had no prior comic experience (she was a tumblr writer known for poetry) and SURPRISE! her work reads like shitty fanfiction. Or how about a writer shilling a character by talking about "what a huge load of shit the previous one was and look at how awesome MY version of Thor is, she's so much better than the one with years of stories because she's a woman".

It's bad writing from bad writers. The fact that they were hired and continue to have their work published is the entire problem.

Well Marvel already has their poor man's Coipel and probably don't pay him as much as they did Coipel so I guess they let him go.

>Marvel executives and editorial are definitely wondering what's wrong with them.

Incompetent people are running the show (David Gabriel and Alex Alonso) plus Ike making everything as cheap as possible.

Aaron
Coates
Waid
Slott
Souleless
Still the same fucking editorial
Let it deep in Marvelfriends, your days of suffering are far from over.

>for non-comic readers?
Who the fuck cares about non-comic readers when we're talking about comics.

>already has their poor man's Coipel
Who?

YES! MARVEL IS BEING PURIFIED!
Friendly advice to DC fans, drive Bendis out of DC as fast as you can before he destroys everything.

Diversity for the sake of diversity doesn't sell because diversity isn't an objective positive, it's entirely neutral.

Also, good. Fuck Bendis.

Because DC sees some value in getting him and Johns gets credit for swaying Marvel's biggest writer to come over to the other side and cements his hold over editorial (like Didio did with the Kuberts).

I realized just now that I have very few 'I agree with this' reaction images in my Sup Forums folder

Really just an indication of what's wrong around here, honestly.

>Sony
It'll flop.

Peter parker is sassier than miles. Miles reacts differently than peter parker. He doesn't even quip like peter parker. He seems like a beta teenage black guy that tells small jokes.

>It's frustrating because diversity isn't the problem.
It is a BIG part of the problem, at least the way they're going about it
>Create an uninteresting diverse character with the superhero name as one of our favorite heroes
>Demonize, age up, and/or kill the original hero
>Be confused why no one likes this shit
There are diverse versions of every major hero now. Iron Man, Spider-man, Cap, Hulk. It gets old. People want to read about their favorites who they've been reading about for years.

>less white people
>neutral

kill yourself and make it look like an ISIS execution

>People want to read about their favorites who they've been reading about for years
Not always. Some characters work well with legacy handoffs. Recently, the Reyes versions of Ghost Rider and Blue Beetle went over extremely well, and nobody complained when we got a mute Asian Batgirl. The problem, however, is as you said: it's entirely a matter of how they do it. Don't utterly destroy and shit on the previous character to sell your new one, and don't replace a character just for the sake of doing so.

trips of truth

>Don't utterly destroy and shit on the previous character to sell your new one
this is the biggest factor to me, honestly

That is exactly what Wilson has said a few times. Don't crap on the legacy because then you just have a shitty legacy

sam as cap could have worked if they had actual let him be cap and hadn't spent the run fighting naysayers which just let to more naysayers

also cho as hulk makes sense

>Dyke Thor and Miss Muslim

You have to be 18 or older to post here.

>and nobody complained when we got a mute Asian Batgirl.
No, there were complaints. And there was also complaints about Jaime Reyes but mainly because Ted was killed off. (on Sup Forums the guy who does those fake Marvel Insider threads complained about both repeatedly in the past)

But I think the difference is there were a lot of people who liked Barbara as Oracle and so didn't mind Cass as Batgirl. And Jaime was different enough from Ted to make him his own character.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!

I am so sick of people letting sloppy storytelling and art by because "It's liberal". I'm liberal, and even I get so fucking bored of a character just saying their gay and then celebration and pats on the back were had.

then why do people love kyle so much?

And yet, Miles Morales is objectively the worse character to come out of this shit show.

You're out of your safespace, son. Run along.

These are basically correct. There's been diversity replacements in the past. The problem in Marvel's case is they replaced too many characters all at once, and often times the writing doesn't make up for it.

Nice strawman, but most of these people being hired have never even picked up one comic or ever shown an interest in the industry and get hired just because they tweet liberal things and fit the company's agenda

They didn't. People hated him for a long-ass time, and the harder DC tried to push him as the best GL ever, the more people hated him.

People didn't start liking him until Grant Morrison's JL run, where he was written as the newbie of the group who had earned his place in the group, but had to actually work to gain their respect as Hal's replacement.

>replaced too many characters all at once
The funny thing is that DC did that as well back in the 1990s, but those changes did not really last that long. I think Kyle still being a lantern might be the only real lasting one, and even that got shoved back a bit in the early 2000s.
Artemis replaced Diana for a bit, Azrael replaced Bruce, Kyle replaced Hal, and I'm sure there are more that I can't remember

But user, thats an accurate description bc muh girl power and muh islamaphobia is all the characters have going for them

>Bendis being allowed to write for DC movies
We are in for a fucking ride

Why doe he have such a hard on for marvel?

When does Marvel go back to being all white dudes again?

Not one white cent until then!

If it wasn't just about less white people then why isnt the Black Panther film diverse? It's just black people, and why is diversity only pushed in white countries?

This is surreal for me. I just assumed that Bendis was so deep in Marvel, for him to just leave is just bizarre. Wonder who will get the bump now...oh wait, it's Jason Aaron, isn't it?

I'd say the biggest difference is that they weren't really seriously intending for most of these characters to actually replace the originals for the long term, with the only exception being Kyle. Probably the biggest point of Azrael's Batman run was that Bruce was the only 'true' Batman, and most characters in-universe reacted to Artemis becoming Wonder Woman with skepticism at best, and outright mockery at worst (When even the Justice League International is making fun of you, things aren't good).

Aaron did have a very successful Vertigo series, but he seems primed to take over Avengers from Waid once the "No Surrender" thing wraps up

>we have to stop Darkseid
>Dark Side?
>no, Darkseid
>like, the dark side? From Star Wars
>no, Darkseid
>that's his name?
>yeah
>Daeksied?
>yeah
>he calls himself Darkseid?
>yeah
>well that's just a dumb name
>what? And Superman is any better?

>David Gabriel, VP of sales, told him at the most recent creative retreat that diversity doesn't sell.

Absolutely agree. It's not diversity being included in a story, it's diversity being included at the EXPENSE of story.

Diversity does not automatically equal "good." But you'd never know that to talk to people pushing it.

Miles has such a punch able face

no no no

I didn't say 'keep on arguing with me'

I said 'kill yourself'

>diversity doesn't sell.
Anyone have those twitter caps of Spencer saying that DC doesn't have any diverse titles, getting called out. then saying that the guy who engaged him has no life?

They did but they still spread it out a bit.

1992: Superman died
1993: Superman returned, Batman got his back broken and replaced by Azrael, Hal went crazy
1994: Kyle becomes GL, Bruce returns as Batman, Wally seems to die during Zero Hour but came back and needed a replacement.
1995: Wally seemed like he was going to die again but he doesn't. I think Artemis replaced Wonder Woman for some months? But then Diana was back in this year.

They generally resolved the changes for most characters in less than a year. I mean there were exceptions (like Hal and Kyle) but that's usually the case with their main heroes during the 90's.

I'm not a big fan of Aaron, because he always goes to extremes, such as Cavengers, melting supernovas, and "Curse you shrubbery!" It all just comes off as trying to be a meme every other sentence.

>tells someone this isn't a safe space
>and then tells them to get out of your safe space
its like rain on your wedding day

You need to be 18 to post here

I dont think anyone expects Marvel to do a sudden 180 and become great from this, but Bendis leaving is a good step forward, he's DC's problem now

I think the other big part of it is that there were diverse characters already there, but Marvel constantly ignores them and makes new ones instead. They could easily brush off fan favorites, but no, here comes the new Black Panther, who is a transgendered woman.

If Bendis will have a seat on the DC creative group for the films then it was totally a no brainer. I mean what do you prefer, a company with a guy (Kevin Feige) who hates the comics división so much he personally asked to cut all ties with it, or a company that's trying to rebuild itself with the creative mind of those who wrote the stories of their big comic sellers.

I agree but with Marvel they're doing it all at once. One or two legacy characters, okay. Replacing your entire roster and sidelining the originals all at once? No.

>WB are finally getting rid of Snyder
>bring in Bendis instead

The other day I saw a person who I'm actually a fan of saying there should be a muslim transwoman Daredevil without a hint of irony
Me, as a catholic spic, didn't take it well.
A spic daredevil would be cool for me tho, but in an alternate universe. Matías Muñiz: Diabolico

I don't think that's accurate: comics have been shit for a long time, but people put up with it because they liked the characters and subject matter. They wanted to attract a bigger audience and the people who put up with crap lost their reason to do so, while the editors continued the status quo.

Which is kind of crazy when you figure that Ostrander's run on the original Suicide Squad 30-odd years ago featured several black characters in leading roles, and that worked because they were written as characters, not talking heads that happened to be minorities. Amanda Waller's backstory of losing half her family to violence in the ghetto wasn't just a political statement to showcase MUH OPPRESSION, it was a formative event that shaped her personality and characterization as an unrelenting hardass control freak. She didn't whine about how she was oppressed, she used it to make herself stronger. THAT'S compelling writing.