If "Heart of Ice" is going to remain Mr. Freeze's definitive origin story, and fans aren't going to accept any substitutions for it, then why not preserve the original charm of his sympathetic motives by giving him an "out" clause where his character development can actually progress outside of the status quo? The premise of the episode "Deep Freeze" sort of hinted at this possibility, with a Walt Disney-expy/James Bond villain wanting to replicate Victor's accident for the side-effect of immortality... But, nothing really interesting actually came out of that, since it was just a self-contained episode that wasn't committing to any major canon alterations.
But could the idea work in the comics? Could Victor possibly be rehabilitated, like maybe into a Bat Family ally or something? Or is this all just too much effort to put into justifying "Heart of Ice" in a long-term canon?
Isn't the current Mister Freeze just an asshole who was born evil and murdered his parents?
Ian Murphy
Yes he is still a psicopath and the world is worse because of it. The sad part is that if it was any other badguy I would actually liked how they wrote him. He actually comes out like an autentic crazy person instead of just ussing his insanity to justify a silly costume. But since they decided to make one of the few batman villians that is not a crazy person crazy it felt like he loose a lot of the appeal.
I think it could work as a legacy character of make him an ally the same way Riddler became a detective for a while. just have Bruce show up and give him the funds to save Nora on the condition that he stop being a villian.
Dylan Bailey
What the fuck was Bruce's problem?
Samuel Price
They need to get rid of the Nora backstory, it's done no favors to Victor's character and keeps him perpetually locked to one story repeated ad nauseum, that was ripped off another Batman villain to begin with. And in Cryonic Man's case, there were less plot holes too.
Nicholas Torres
She's his McGuffin.
The trick to motivation is to have it not be an item, location, or thing. It has to be something that's applicable to every aspect of life, so that there's always a motivation. Whether it's the nature of chance, the application of fear, the dichotomy of wealth or the nature of sanity, and so on.
It can begin with Nora. It just has to go somewhere besides her body.
Isaiah Parker
I like Nora being his motivator in any given situation. It's a twisted reflection of Bruce's clinging to the perfected, crystallized memory of his parents and using it as motivation to love a life they would never want for him. Nora would be horrified if Victor and Bruce's parents would be horrified of Batman.
Christopher Roberts
The only time I liked the Nora motivation was in Arkham Knight when she and Victor finally decide to stop fighting the inevitable and just enjoy what little time they have left together.
Nolan Ortiz
Instead of the bastardization that Snyder gave us in a vain effort to get more mileage out of Victor, we should really just get a reformed Mister Freeze who's a part of the Batfamily. It makes more sense than Clayface. Or better yet, why not start a reformed group of Bat-villains featuring Freeze, Clayface, Killer Moth, and Man Bat?
Nathaniel Diaz
Batman should create a new team of Outsiders made up of legitimately reformed villains as a counterpoint to Waller's Suicide Squad.
I'm thinking Bane, Catwoman, Freeze, She-Bat and Azrael, with the Riddler as their Alfred.
David Morgan
>Could Victor possibly be rehabilitated, like maybe into a Bat Family ally or something?
Yes actually. OP this is what I'd do with Mr.Freeze if I was writing him. Let him get a happy ending and have Nora come out of cyrostatis and be cured. This would also mean that it's possible to do that (not so much in the real world) and Victor gets credit for giving humanity that gift.
Then someone else comes along and uses it for evil again, but Batman and everyone involves knows the new Mr.Freeze is a thief and not Victor.
Nathan Ross
Riddler is more oracle like.
Wyatt Myers
Right, that's what I meant.
The support character, not a front-line combatant.
James Johnson
No. All they need to do is let him go. Once you've told the story of Mr. Freeze, he has no more reason to keep coming back unless someone can come up with a really creative story for him.
DC needs to just not be afraid to let certain villains stay unused for a while. Riddler can come back every year, Penguin can come back every few months. Mr. Freeze and Man-Bat don't need to come back once their story is done.
Kevin Gonzalez
I think Nora should die. Part of Freeze's character is refusing to move on. Without Nora, he thinks that he has nothing. If he can find new purpose by serving Gotham, following his wife's wishes to be a good man when she can't stay any longer, I think it's a better message than miraculously curing Nora
Zachary Anderson
Let's throw her in a lazarus pit and se-
oh. oh nevermind.
Jaxson Miller
shit, I'd read that.
Lucas Morales
Yes. His origin began another muh parents story. Basically Nora was never his wife but some woman that has been in cyrogenic treatment for years. Victor decided to make her his wifu.
Asher Cooper
I don't think Bane could tolerate that kind of setup.
David Carter
>get reality altering playing card >use it to create ice monster instead of cure his wife
Benjamin Martinez
Come to think about it I am a little fuzzy on it but wasn't muh parents a recent thing for flash as well?
Carter Myers
Thanks!
And Bane might be too high-profile for the team, anyway. What about Lyle Bolton, Lock-Up, as team muscle?
Evan Sullivan
Clayface seems like and obvious option, but Croc or Orca could also work
Josiah Gonzalez
Clayface strikes me as overpowered. I mean, his abilities would make him a challenge for most metas. Croc has some sympathetic moments, but he's a cannibal. Orca would give us another female member, which would make it an even 3/3 split. I like it!
Michael Anderson
You could remove a lot of the problem with the Nora motivation by making it so that Nora Fries is long dead and the Nora in the cryo tube is a different woman that Victor uses as a psychological substitute. It allows you to retain the pathos of Heart of Ice while making Victor legitimately crazy and at the same time explains why Batman doesn't throw his resources into trying to fix Nora.
Nicholas Gray
Has their been an alt universe where Nora is Doctor Freeze?
Parker Thomas
I don't know but if there hasn't there should be.
Joshua Sanchez
Fuck off Snydee
Justin Evans
At some point there's going to be more Bat-family members than criminals in Gotham.
Justin Martin
The problem with Freeze's character is that he suffers extreme cases of sociopathic behavior and emotional insensitiveness. Everything not related to Nora makes him want to remove that or destroy it without even agreeing to talk it through. He views everything as an obstacle. His relationship with Nora is the only thing that makes him human and tragic. Without that, he is a mental case with a reasoning of surgeon.
Kevin Howard
How about Anarky instead of Azrael?
Ethan Foster
...
Joseph Clark
>armor with boobs >hair
Ian Cruz
>Anarky >part of any functional structure with a defined authority
Robert Ross
>upset at boob armor >in a world where batass, batnipples, and batwoman's costume shows off her tits
Isaac Perry
Anarky's pretty much just a socialist now, not an actual anarchist.
I know, I know -- they amount to the same thing in the end.
Wyatt Foster
Personally I would like to see Freeze rehabilitated mostly so Batman could actually HAVE a true victory as a hero.
Let Freeze, Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, and Riddler end up hanging up their criminal careers and get over their villainous acts to either help batman or pursue legit work.
Actually, could lead to a cool scene in my head of Joker fucking up the Ice Berg Lounge and mocking Penguin for having 'gone soft' onlty for Penguin to then beat the shit out of Joker and have him already tied up by the time Batman arrives.
