Why was the writing so bad compared to Last Airbender?

Why was the writing so bad compared to Last Airbender?
The drop in quality was pretty dramatic. From the GOAT to something below mediocre.

Other urls found in this thread:

araeph.tumblr.com/post/152922375940/im-usually-ok-with-kataang-i-dont-like-it-and-i
araeph.tumblr.com/post/152767693965/i-got-in-a-pretty-heated-discussion-with-a-friend
araeph.tumblr.com/post/161531158215/what-does-aangs-gender-identity-even-have
araeph.tumblr.com/post/144077016475/gender-double-standards-and-mk0
reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/35d38e/atla_comparing_atlas_animation_studios_gallery_in/cr3catj/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

The fact that they were older teens seemed like their personalities where more whiney and drama based. I never watched the show because it looked like shit, but damn would i fuck korra

1. Ehasz was kicked off the team (yes, kicked off)
2. General talent decline affecting the industry as a whole (makes me doubt if even he could fix it)

Because idiots keep trying to compare it to last air bender.

>you shouldn't compare a sequel to its immediate predecessor guise!!!111

>something below mediocre.
Stop saying that. It wasn't bad, it was pretty good in fact, it just looks bad next to Last Airbender. Sure it had some REALLY bad bits that pulled the rest down overall, but it was mostly a good show, or at least better than mediocre compared to what was airing at the time.

Basically the george lucas effect.
Bryke is shit without the rest of their team and basically didn't consult them at all for LOK, thinking they could do it all on their own.

It is a TERRIBLE show. No comparison here, just in itself.

Korra and Boruto are the same show let that sink in for a bit. Also Korra opened up a bunch of plot lines where 0 were resolved and she killed Aang.

>It was pretty good in fact

No, it really wasn't.

>Compared to what was airing at the time

>TRON Uprising
>Motorcity
>Green Lantern: The Animated Series

kek

>it was pretty good in fact

Uhhh... no.

>at least better than mediocre compared to what was airing at the time.

I can begrudgingly agree with this.

All of those are trash too, but not revolting like LOK.

No, they were significantly better than Korra. Why are you even here? You're clearly not familiar with what we're talking about.

All wrong. Korra sucked because half the plot was about who wanted to hump who, because they saw all the shipping bullshit online that kept the fandom going for so long, and assumed that's what fans were looking for. They thought they were giving people what they wanted.

Haven't watched Boruto, but I'm considering it after I finally finish Naruto, just because I think it'll be cool to see Naruto actually be Hokage after growing up watching him try. Is it going to disappoint me?
I watched none of those so I can't speak to their quality. But even if they're better, 4th place out of the 20 or more cartoon airing at any time is better than mediocre.
Why?

>he thinks shipping ruined LOK

>one was about the LAST air bender
>The other was about some hot Eskimo

And that's relevant because...

You wanna watch Naruto do a lot of paperwork and have Boruto be Korra then sure go for it

The story doesn't carry over which is exactly what "Not Muh avatar Uung" fags were complaining about

The series was literally just one long series of poor decisions on Korra's part, absolute zero growth for her as a character, and a string of deus ex machinas that prevented any of the former from ever coming back to bite her. Also the choreography turned to complete shit, with only a few shining exceptions.

What's it like having complete and total shit taste?

You assume all stories have to have growth

>from cool oriental setting to boring cityscapes
>bending is now superpowers
>the previously established conventions of bending need not apply we need more superpowers pew pew woosh
>EVERYTHING MUST BE BIGGER AND MORE EPIC
>lets compensate for the setting and lore being shit with teenager angst drama and sports
So basically they dropped everything that made the original interesting and replaced it with boring shit.

I... don't know what to say to you here man. My favorite part about LoK was that her poor decisions DID come back to bite her and that she DID eventually learn from her mistakes, and how much she DID grow as a character. I suspect you just went in wanting to be mad at it, or you just didn't pay attention.

Sorry user, the ending of Book 3 is NOT growth, it's just abuse. The writers were unable to write proper character growth, so they went that route.

And of course, that's ignoring all those other times when she didn't even seem to be aware of the consequences of her actions.

>>EVERYTHING MUST BE BIGGER AND MORE EPIC
This was actually my biggest complaint. It stared off subtle but got worse as time went on.
>metalbenders everywhere!
>Whole squads of lightning benders!
>Giant vines are sinking the city!
>He's attacking ALL the avatars!
>Lava bending!
>Giant robots!
>GIANTS ROBOTS DRAKE!

>the previously established conventions of bending need not apply we need more superpowers pew pew woosh
I liked how energybending was established in ATLA long before it was suddenly used in the finale. Oh, what's that? It wasn't?
OK, well metalbending then. Oh, that one came out of nowhere too?
>lets compensate for the setting and lore being shit with teenager angst drama and sports
ATLA's relationships were so well-written! It's not like they trashed an entire season because of writer disagreement over one ship, causing the massive group of fans who had correctly predicted the original script quite some angst.

And it's not like they would ever put characters together in abusive relationships like LOK did, right? Or pair a main character together with a minor one just to piss off oh so many fans by trashing a far more compatible relationship?

Or maybe ATLA was just more creative? Like the literal copy of pro-wrestling, who needs actual unique sports like pro-bending that have no obviously analogous counterpart in real life, because they only really make sense with bending?

>put characters together in abusive relationships like LOK did
Remind me who you're talking about?

Both Kataang and Maiko are abusive, in slightly different ways. That was apparently the main reason Ehasz didn't want either pairing together.

Boruto is actually decent especially when you know it's not done by the original author of Naruto.

Korra on the other hand is also done by the original authors of Last Avatar so there's no excuse why it turned out so bad.

I meant in Los
>Kataang is abusive
What?

>I meant in Los
I didn't think you were so stupid. EVERY SINGLE relationship in LOK is abusive. EVERY ONE.

That's why I didn't bother to point them out.
>What?
Aang is practically the definition of the "Nice Guy" meme. He pines after Katara, doesn't take an implied no for an answer, and gets pissed off as fuck when she doesn't accept (Ember Island Players, and that official comic where it almost crosses into physical abuse).

It didn't turn out bad though except for the extremely vocal minority

extenuating circumstances aren't really much of an excuse

Please post this

You mean the comic? It's called "Love Is a Battlefield". But I don't do storytimes, so you'll have to look it up yourself to read it.

OTOH what I *will* post are links to analyses of BOTH Kataang and Maiko, and why they're about equally as bad:
araeph.tumblr.com/post/152922375940/im-usually-ok-with-kataang-i-dont-like-it-and-i
araeph.tumblr.com/post/152767693965/i-got-in-a-pretty-heated-discussion-with-a-friend

This one is about Kataang and that comic specifically: araeph.tumblr.com/post/161531158215/what-does-aangs-gender-identity-even-have

AND BEFORE SOMEONE SAYS "muh feminist SJW" they call out BOTH sides of the sexist double standard (as exemplified by Kataang AND Maiko, as it happens!) araeph.tumblr.com/post/144077016475/gender-double-standards-and-mk0

>"official" comic

I just read it, it doesn’t really seem like he was directing anything at her. It seemed reminiscent of how he accidentally burned her when he first tried firebending actually
I mean it was published by Nickelodeon

Bryke had complete creative control with no one to tell them no. Add to this that they only really interacted with an echo chamber of opinions (personally chosen writers, con attendants and tumblr since that the only social media they have as far as im aware) lead to them trying to please this echo chamber.

You can kinda tell throughout the seasons that they try to correct things who were recieved poorly among those types of fans. Makorra is one example, leaving RC is another and so on.

>It seemed reminiscent of how he accidentally burned her when he first tried firebending actually
Which is also addressed in the Tumblr links I posted - DID YOU FUCKING READ THEM?

It kinda did. From season 1 onwards. Only book 3 was relatively safe from it.

That said it wasn't the only thing wrong with LoK.

>posting tumblr links to non-porn
>expecting people to use them
shiggy

That comic is from "The Lost Adventures", which is considered 100% official except for a couple of "joke" comics.

In fact, Ehasz himself wrote some of them.

>was intended to be a one shot special event
>becomes a one season event
>first season is popular enough to spawn additional seasons

wow, it's almost as if they had no idea what they were doing when they started and had to try to come up with something last minute to justify the series.

ATLA had a set goal from the start. Fire nation attacked, Aang must learn all of the elements and defeat the fire lord. Each season is one element. The structure is concise and logical.

Idiot, LOK was NOT shit because it wasn't planned out, any more than it was shit because of the shipping as the other idiot from and thinks.

THE problem with LOK was fundamentally incapable writers. That some of them were from ATLA where they apparently did a much better job only highlights that talent has to be maintained - and also that an industry-wide talent decline is basically impossible to escape.

poor planning and an inability to cope with a change in series length or narrative focus is a sign of a bad writer

Korra's massive breasts.

>(yes, kicked off)
Pretty sure he just wasn't hired this time around.

>Last Airbender writing
>GOAT
You have to be shitting me. Writing was the weakest part of ATLA, it was mediocre in general, with some good moments and some of the most retarded writing in cartoon history.

But not the other way around. Bad writing isn't just poor planning. THAT is my point.
Apparently they specifically excluded him from LOK, even though he wanted to come back.

His influence over TLA Book 3 was already diminished (he only wrote 1/4 finale episodes, while Bryke wrote 3/4, even though he did the other season finales virtually by himself), pointing to some serious backroom tensions.

Can you list some of the big ones? I know many, but I'm curious if I'm missed something obvious.

>Aang
>Abusive Nice Guy
Oh boy, calm your Tits, sis. Aang is a literal Monk and nothing I've read in the comics, and saw in the Series so far implies abuse. You're one sad motherfucker if you think the involuntary kiss in Ember Island Players is abuse. That's like "I've never been in a relationship Tier" of sheer stupidity." Also, he wasn't pissed off, he was sad and disappointed, frustrated, even. The dude also is very young, so you shouldn't hold him to the same standard. Ironically, he is more adult than Korra in most ways that matter.

I read the comic exerpt in question and it doesn't indicate any abuse to me. Just heartbreak, frustration, despair and a desperate need of distance between those two for the time being

Are you a Zutara-Fag? Cause you guys(mostly girls) are a pain in the ass and can't let go even after all this years.

What is wrong with you?

>below mediocre.
such bullshit

>gets pissed off as fuck when she doesn't accept
at himself yeah because he doesn't know what he's doing and thinks he just fucked himself out of any shot at getting with her due to his inexperience.

>t. Nice Guy apologist, probably one of them
Your behavior will be fully criminalized soon.

In the meantime, let me just say that THAT SPECIFIC WAY of indicating "heartbreak, frustration, despair and a desperate need of distance" IS EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING CALLED ABUSE HERE. Same thing for "sad and disappointed, frustrated, even".
You CANNOT take out your emotions like that.

Boruto is comfy as fuck. No shitty romance, just kids living by in a post-war world.

Also, I've read the tumblr posts and they were incoherend rambling. Calling that thing in the comic a "Threatening fireblast" is one mean way of injecting bias into your "Analysis"

Tumblr - and Zutarafags - were a mistake.

Good ones do

He kisses her without consent (if not the opposite)

Who's the real victim there? Fucking apologists...

Since when are emotions abuse? Damn, must be hard being you, when having emotions and showing them to the one you allegedly love suddenly is criminal and dangerous
Try to criminalize me, sugar tits, I can assure you, I am no nice guy and my intentions are to corrupt the ones I take interest in. Nice guys are the ones you should listen to when you meet someone like me.
You on the other hand are a harpy, some wounded animal with serious trauma. I don't care if you are male or female. People like you are excellent pray for a predator.

yeah he fucked up. did i say he didn't fuck up anywhere in my post? the guy made a mistake, i assume he thought he was being spontaneous and romantic, but he was wrong and katara got pissed at him and stormed off, they barely talked throughout the rest of the night. meanwhile in korra, she does the exact same thing to mako and it's mako that takes the brunt of all the suffering. he has to deal with his brother getting his heart broken, he has to deal with asami, even though he shouldn't because korra's the one who kissed him, meanwhile korra just gets to hang back and wait until the end of season 1 so she can get rewarded with a pretty new boytoy. she doesn't suffer any consequences and learns nothing from this experience. i'm not going to pretend like aang and katara's relationship was perfect or anything but in comparing the two there's a much more realistic option and ultimately one the audience empathizes more with.

You know the big ones, they're pretty much all related to the finale, but it does start earlier because the finale invalidates a lot of what they did earlier.
The whole chiropractor rock thing invalidates Aang losing the Avatar state way back in season 2 finale. Because he gets it back by accident and doesn't find another way to defeat Ozai without it, the entirety of Aang's character arc related to that in s3 is pointless, as is him losing the Avatar state in the first place. By the way, why the hoaky magic water could cure death but not the loss of the Avatar state is anyone's guess, since it was apparently a physical ailment (being cured physically later).
The energy bending is dumb in and of itself, but it's especially bad because it destroys basically all the build-up they tried to have since the beginning of the show, especially the episodes preceding the finale where they all revolve around this seemingly unsolvable dilema. See the problem isn't so much that Aang didn't kill Ozai or even that he didn't have to find a workaround, the problem is that they set it up so that's what we would expect. Why build your show towards those expectations when you know that 1. You can't have your MC kill regardless of their morals because it's a kids' cartoon 2. You're not good enough at writing to find a satisfying workaround.
Most of Aang's point as a character is rendered pointless by having his bug obstacles removed by outside forces.

Then you've got basically everything related to Katara which is handled with the grace of an African elephant trying to tip-toe.

And you've got all the episodes that people call "filler" because they bring nothing to the narrative or the characters despite being filled with character moments that could be used to move things along. Katara's an environmentalist? Ok. Aang lies to solve his problems? Ok. Sokka has a sword now? Ok. What was the point of any of that in the larger narrative again? It's not like they use that later.

>Sokka has a sword now? Ok.
ok come on that episode was great

it was horrible

It was entertaining because Sokka always is, but it's completely pointless narratively despite coming at like half of the last season, it throws the pace off and doesn't even try to close a character arc like that episode where Katara gets their mother's killer. It feels like it belongs in season 1 or 2.

i think that's actually a good comparison point between avatar and korra where the worst avatar episodes are just kind of pointless as far as the narrative goes even though another certain popular narrative driven series currently airing has about 80% episodes like that but is still praised constantly whereas the worst episodes of korra aren't even entertaining to watch.

that shit derailed season 1

Seems fair to assume it in this case since the writers insist on her growing.

I'd say ATLA has some boring episodes too (thanks mainly to Katara and Aang being a couple of boring sourpusses a lot of the time), but my issue with it is more that it's narratively broken from the top down than anything to do with individual episodes.

>even though another certain popular narrative driven series currently airing has about 80% episodes like that but is still praised constantly
You mean every single modern cartoon?

No, seriously, I have no idea which show you're talking about because they all seem to be like that. (And also utter shit, but that's slightly beside the point.)

Personally I liked the addition of lavabending as an uber rare phenomena, and I really dug it when Bo found out why he couldn't learn to metalbend. BECAUSE HE'S A FUKKEN LAVABENDERRRR

Relatable/likable villains like some of Zahir's crew were cool.

>Relatable/likable villains like some of Zahir's crew
Nigga they had like one line of dialogue each.

I agree. Korra wasn't great, but I thought it was really entertaining at parts *cough* Season 3 *cough* and worth watching if you're a fan of ATLA.

Those are some solid criticisms, they did pull a deus ex lion turtle at the last point in the show. Is that really enough to say the show's writing as a whole is bad though?


I think Korra would have been a lot better if they not only had Ehasz, but if they knew they had a full show on their hands from season 1. Maybe they could have constructed a better overall story instead of filling season 1 with corny relationship drama. Maybe I'm putting too much faith in Bryke, but it's just wishful thinking.

wow another thread

> established a great setting about an early 1900s immigration era seen through the eyes of a sheltered girl with lot of power and little experience
>early descriptions of the show said there would be a strong theme of modern life and tech clashing with the old spiritual ways and culture
>new avatar is a good foil to the last one. Character arc already developing in the first three episodes

>JK, we're going to ignore everything we established in the first three episodes and focus on a shitty love triangle.
>all characters stagnate and never change
>rush an ending in three episodes


and somehow they made season 2 even worse. It's like the first three or four episodes were written for an entirely different show.

>Boruto
>bad
How does it feel to be wrong?

Please don't use Nedroid to shitpost.

did you even bother looking at the writing credits? That's all you need to know.

Many of the non-Ehasz writers are there. They just lost their touch.

>Is that really enough to say the show's writing as a whole is bad though?
I said mediocre, mostly because the really retarded shit pulls everything down with it, not just on average but again by invalidating some good things that were done before.

I don't know if planning is Bryke's strong suit anyway. I mean look at AtlA: they supposedly knew that the story would end with Aang defeating the Firelord, but it didn't stop the show from feeling like it was written chronologically and they were making things up as they went along, with them trying to unfuck things up several times. Like Aang starts off prettty OP for a main character and only grows stronger, and that put them in a corner with how little the bad guys could actually threaten him when he was serious, so they took the Avatar state away from him, which they proceed to do nothing with, writing themselves into another corner where they end up giving Aang his win now button back. You don't keep writing yourself into corners if you're good at planning a story.
Same goes for a lot of the "filler" episodes, they're really just padding with little redeeming value, which there's no excuse for when you have a clear goal to your story and a well-planned outline to get there, and some elements still end up feeling rushed when you get to the end.

Again I don't think Atla's writing is proper bad, but it seriously rustles me when people try to make it out to be GOAT when its strength really don't lie there.

Most of the writers aside from him had little to no prior experience before AtlA, and very little after.

Ehasz himself STILL has barely any experience outside ATLA. In fact his name's barely even known outside that community.

less budget, no clear time goal, lowest bidder korean animators, fired the martial art sifu that made the martial arts look real and not generic kung fu, sjw influence unchecked.

bryke literally worked on destroying every bit of established lore from ATLA.

it could be nothing more than a garbage fire. at least korra is hot as fuck and great porn was born because of it.

You know why this happens? Because when there's a show that FEELS meticulously planned out (even though it actually wasn't), doesn't have random bullshit asspulls (the finale avoids both ATLA *and* GF type pitfalls, kind of the two opposite extremes), AND has the characters not being largely insufferable but instead incredibly interesting and having actual development... nobody watches it.
And people make fun of anyone who dares to promote it, too.

So writers don't feel very much pressure to actually do well in that sense, because people go for what's marketed well as opposed to actual, quality writing.

>lowest bidder korean animators
Actually even though the animation was shit for the most part, THIS is not true at all.

The actual reasons are:
1. The main studio was literally booked solid during half of Book 2's production, forcing them to switch studios
2. The main studio slowly got less and less capable over the years, as production continued - see Book 1 vs. Book 4
3. The various technical reasons from reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/35d38e/atla_comparing_atlas_animation_studios_gallery_in/cr3catj/

But Nick spent top dollar for the animation, at least based on literally everything I know about it.

I don't think your favorite show was ignored just because it had good writing user.

Oh wait, you're the WITCHfag, aren't you?
Listen lad, we all have shows that we think are underrated, but you're not really doing it any service by trying to force it so much.

It got so bad that they went on Twitter and attacked Mako's VA.

Korrasami was a boon for Bryke, since it makes them invulnerable to criticism.

I said it was ignored DESPITE having that. Idiot.
I HAVE to force it. There is NO other option - but giving up, which is NOT a real option whatsoever.

...

Aunty loves Boruto.

>I said it was ignored DESPITE having that
No, the way you phrased it clearly implied causation.
>Idiot.
Rude and uncalled for.
>There is NO other option
No other option to achieve what? You're not going to singlehandedly make everyone like the show dude, and you really shouldn't want that anyway. If anything you're turning people off of it by butting in on every conversation with it.

>typing in CAPS for EMPHASIS because of some cartoon

Where do you think you... oh, fuck it.

>You know why this happens? Because when there's a show that FEELS meticulously planned out (even though it actually wasn't), doesn't have random bullshit asspulls (the finale avoids both ATLA *and* GF type pitfalls, kind of the two opposite extremes), AND has the characters not being largely insufferable but instead incredibly interesting and having actual development... nobody watches it.
>And people make fun of anyone who dares to promote it, too.
what show/person did he mean by this?

W.I.T.C.H.

And myself as the person in question, obviously.

Wow, only you would be autistic enough to actually straight up answer that question.

It's really strange, they seemed to have something in mind for each seasons, had actually interesting themes, but it just never paid off. Something probably went wrong during the production.

Last time I tried a guessing game with that question, I think I lost a potential viewer. Not risking that again, not any time soon anyways.