So i just got into a debate with a mother over vaccinations. she says that we should stop using them, here argument is:
Allot of people think that bacteria cause diseases but thats not true. it is a bad immune system thats allows the bacteria multiply in your body. and people now a days have a far better immune system so there is no need for the old vaccinations.
what do you guys think of this??
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>Trusting Jewish Science
Fuck that.
WOW so by this logic we don't need to observe hygiene at all! Why bother washing the shit off your hands if your immune system can just handle it!
People these days do not have "far better immune systems". If anything the hyper clean modern environment means our immune systems are a-lot less primed and stimulated than our ancestors, making it do cucked shit like attack our own tissues.
Tell this mother that its her freedom to not get her kids vaccinated, and its the states freedom not to let her kids attend school and infect other people with disease.
Pretty controversial stuff. I recently had a conversation with my pathophysiology prof about this. He was essentially saying the same thing, that they really weaken your immune system in the long run because your body doesn't naturally acquire the immunity. Honestly I don't think this really makes sense because the process of acquiring the antibodies is actually the same regardless of how the pathogen gets into your body.
theres also the possibility that vaccines are contributing to evolution of viruses into superbugs.
Honestly nobody knows. I can assure you flu shot is a waste. MMR is probably not necessary.
Or collect welfare benefits, you're a cuckstralian.
Sorry i didnt fully read your post, my prof was arguing that vaccinations weaken your immune system. he was not arguing whatever backwards ass claim this idiot was making.
People do not have better immune systems now than they did at any point in the past. There is a lot of evidence that would suggest exactly the opposite is true.
Seems paradoxical since so much of our immunities are inherited. If our ancestors developed a resistance to a disease we reap the benefits regardless of whether we have encountered that disease ourselves.
your mother's a fucking moron
Watched Vaxxed. There was a cover-up by the CDC on their definitive study that "disproved" an autism link to the MMR vaccine
One of the scientsts (William Thompson) whose name is on the paper spilled the beans and told an investigator that they destroyed the documents and altered the data.
The investigator was recording the audio, unknown to Thompson.
Vaccine science is great but the heavy metals they use as adjuvants are absorbed by the central nervous system and brain.
My grandpa got a nice natural polio immunity. Nearly killed him but atleast he wasn't autismo
They don't use metals like mercury in vaccines anymore and even if they did it was such low amounts that it had no impact on the body at all.
Hey my Rus friend,
your mother is on the right track Mother Russia and its inhabitants were often human guinea pigs and field trial participants when it came and comes to the testing of vaccinations.
youtube.com
You people got infected with a cancer triggering virus via polio vaccination. And only god knows what else.
Most people do not know that their immune system reside within their gut and gets modulated there. For a healthy immune response you need to care for your micro biom and gut health. You need many different strains and no gram negative bacteria. Also eat anti inflammatory and prebiotic.
TL;DR A healthy individual should not get the flue shot.
This. Why the fuck would they put in heavy metals? Do they just assume it's small enough to just not do anything?
Man you'll just believe any shitty doc without going and reading anything yourself? Humans are fucked.
They do use aluminum though, which is one of those metals that are also suspected in brain disorders, specifically Alzheimers.
viruses =/= bacteria
learn the difference between vaccinations and antibiotics
"trace amounts" is another film talking about how even small amounts are detrimental
Remember injecting metals into your veins isn't the same as swallowing them (like in fish)
did you watch it, microdick? then STFU
because they don't give a shit about us
Vaccines aren't for bacteria. Your mother is a fucking moron.
actually, sir - there are bacterial vaccines
look it up on altavista .com
Most vaccines are not bad just make sure that they don't have mercury in them and also don't give a toddler 5 or more vaccination shots a day. You should just do one ever couple of weeks to be honest.
That's only true for a very small number of viruses. Most immunity needs to be learned.
>it is a bad immune system thats allows the bacteria multiply in your body
Vaccines are working against virus, not bacteria.
And no, it's not a bad immune system that allow bacteria to grow. You need bacteria to survive. In fact, in absolute number, your body more bacteria than human cell.
Concerning vaccination... take the example of smallpock... the number of vaccination have decrease, consequently the sickness came back.
Bullshit. Child dont get the whole immune system from mother.
This is idiotic. It's suggests that there are no diseases that can affect you if you have a 'naturally strong' immune system. There are plenty that can.
there are bacterial vaccines. look it up.
I'll be laughing when you die from an easily preventable disease.
Not essentially. Your body does not know how to deal with weird but often deadly shit. Though you should pay attention to what you inject. Typically vaccines are state-sponsored and thus become cash cows for the big pharma. So their objective is to cut costs and sell the snake oil.
>This fucking thread
>Again
Niggers in charge of understanding immunology
1. Stop using vaccinations.
2. Step on dirty/rusty nail.
3. Die by Tetanus after 1 month of agony.
And this is only one of thousands variants of horrible death without vaccinations.
picrelated
literally put rubbing alcohol on it because tetanus needs oxygen to survive
lots of clueless know-it-alls in this thread
yeah, uncontrollable spasmodic muscle cramps that are so strong they can break your own bones aren't so fun, huh?
just take the fucking vaccine man
but you can get a tetanus shot after stepping on the nail.
And what will you do if you get Rabies virus from stray dog?
And what about all other illnesses?
en.wikipedia.org
What if you stepped on nail while you were on vacation in some fucking Tailand/India/Oceania/Africa?
> it is a bad immune system thats allows the bacteria multiply in your body.
I mean, that's kind of true? But that doesn't mean it's not still the bacteria that causes disease.
That's like saying
>It's not being hit by a truck that kills you, its your bad reaction time that stopped you getting out of the way that does.
>and people now a days have a far better immune system
That is true in part for certain diseases (because of vaccinations) but concerning just general, not especially infections everyday pathogens humans have demonstrably worse immunity than people living even half a century ago due to the much better cleaning standards people tend to use nowadays.
>and people now a days have a far better immune system so there is no need for the old vaccinations.
If anything, the fact she said this at all shows she has little to no actual knowledge about how vaccines function and what they actually do, and considering how readily she'll argue against them despite this she probably has absolutely no intention of learning about them.
So there's not much point in arguing with her.
Not true, there is mercury even in flu shots. Not much, but that shit is going straight into your veins. Much more potent than if you eat it.
My opinion, and what I will practice with my future children, is that they will only get the absolute necessary vaccines for the most deadly and horrible diseases, and they won't get them until they are older. None of this 6-month old baby getting injected with fucking mercury shit. Autism or not, I don't want mercury soaking into my baby's brain.
Looks like you don't know shit about biology. Resistance to a particular disease is acquired by B cells creating and memorizing a type of antibody that works against that disease. It has nothing to do with DNA and is therefore not heritable.
>Tetanus is a serious illness caused by Clostridium bacteria ...live in soil, saliva, dust, and manure. The bacteria can enter the body through a deep cut ... or through a burn.
>manure
tetanus is a concern when you're around livestock
if in doubt, get the tetanus booster
lockjaw (tetanus) will fuck you up
shit. meant to link the webpage
Ask if they heard of Darwin and the Natural selection process.
Some are needed tho, not gonna lie, but most of them are just fallacies.
Out of curiosity, will you prevent your children from putting any salt in their food to stop them taking in any deadly sodium or chlorine?
Rabies? Get a series of shots after contracting rabies that cures it. It sucks, they inject it into your bellybutton, but why vaccinate against rabies when I'll likely never get it and there is a cure after I do get it?
And if I'm in a shitty 3rd world country that doesn't have tetanus cures even for a wealthy American who will pay for it, well, I'll just hop on a flight back to the USA and get it taken care of there. It's not like you step on a rusty nail and instantly start dying.
Get your vaccinations you fucking conspiri-tard morons.
I'm totally for stupid people stopping immunizing their children.
hope she dies of an infection
No, salt is necessary, just don't overdo it like most things. And the iodine in table salt is also good for you.
>what is epigenetics
Loling@urlyfm8
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU ASK Sup Forums FOR MEDICAL ADVICE? AND WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE LISTEN?!
TL;DR: vaccines don't work, Instead search your PC for "system32"...
fuck off, leaf
tho some of the science around vaccines is sound,
some of it is shady as fuck
There's a degree of poetic justice when an anti-vaxxer gets a horrible preventable disease but a lot of the point of mass injections in a society isn't to protect the individuals getting the vaccine (especially for things like flu which a healthy adult could normally fight off easily)
It's to protect those who can't get vaccinations or are otherwise immunocompromised, like premature babies and people with diseases like HIV who have AIDS through herd immunity. These kinds of people could very easily be killed by a flu virus that most people would shrug off, and so the only way to protect them is to try and ensure they simply never encounter the pathogen by ensuring that everyone else is vaccinated.
So you recognize that chemicals which in their elemental state are very toxic and otherwise harmful to humans can also be non harmful, and even vital when coupled together or as part of a larger molecule?
those with shitty immune systems need to die for the betterment of the herd.
that has always been a terrible argument.
it's similar to the welfare state in that we reward (thereby promoting and increasing) the less successful.
you retards realize the human body has metals in it naturally, right?
People these days have much worse immune systems and that's why I think we shouldn't vaccinate. These niggers are out here getting killed by fucking peanuts, they got to go.
>those with shitty immune systems need to die for the betterment of the herd.
Like newborn babies and otherwise healthy people experiencing curable symptoms?
What about people who get organ or limb donations? They need to be kept on immunosuppressant drugs for months, sometimes for years to stop their bodies rejecting the implant. Should they die preventably as well?
>science is a social construct
>words have meaning
Thimerosal isn't good for you. Actually not good for you. Comparing Thimerosal with a nutrient necessary to be alive is farcical.
people develop these horrible allergies because they're sheltered from the elements. It's been show that small exposure to the allergen overtime reduces the reactions to the allergy, sometimes to nothing.
Instead stupid parents freak out and then make sure their kid will NEVER be exposed to even the slightest nut. It's retarded.
This makes no sense. The immune system works the same with a vaccine as it does with getting the illness itself. If your mother's argument were to hold true, then a vaccine wouldn't work on someone with a 'bad immune system', so her 'argument' isn't much of an argument.
Quit arguing like a jew
My point was easy enough to understand
I guess that happens when low infant mortality is achieved by putting dead babies in machines. But somewhere in the future we would need to resort to cloning anyway since most of the population is either infertile or disabled.
the only argument against vaccination that plausibly makes sense is not wanting to get programmed by secret government control procedures
vaccinations are good. they are proven to work and people get fucking diseases if they dont vacccinate. so unless you believe that the gov is trying alter your DNA or kill people somehow, your argument against vaccines is totally retarded and scientifically baseless
>Thimerosal isn't good for you. Actually not good for you.
Well that's the thing, the current scientific consensus is that there is no conclusive evidence one way or the other. There have been a few high profile studies claiming that it causes autism but they've since been discredited. No one is one hundred percent sure, although is you actually do the research yourself there is a hell of a lot more studies and evidence concluding that it is safe than ones saying it isn't.
Regardless of all that, It isn't even used anymore in the US for children's vaccines (apart from a few select flu ones, and afaik you have the ability to demand ones without it).
They stopped using it because of the mass hysteria that was caused by people talking about
>injecting mercury into babies!!11!1
because that sounds so scary. So they removed it from the vast majority of vaccines to satiate the public who them took that as evidence that it DID actually do damage.
Can you find me a credibly study that seems to show that it's harmful? If so I'd be fascinated as I've never heard of one to this date.
Let me just show you how Thimerosal is known to be very not good for you. Jesus Christ why do I have to explain how mercury is fucking bad for you. Fuck.
"Mercury is a highly toxic element; there is no known safe level of exposure."
"The development of the child in utero and early in life is at particular risk."
"It has toxic properties and severely affects the environment and humans, especially developing fetuses and infants."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight... A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose."
Also
>Comparing Thimerosal with a nutrient necessary to be alive is farcical.
I was pointing out the fact that using a word as "scary" as "mercury" is disingenuous when talking about non elemental compounds.
I think if vaccines are so safe the doctors and politicians should take 5 of each vaccine in front of a live audience in public.
If there are any symptoms it won't matter because vaccines are safe and I wait for their prompt response.
>My point was easy enough to understand
Elaborate then? What should be done?
You talk of people with shitty immune system but those people are just that, babies and the elderly and those undergoing treatment.
If you think they should be culled then fair enough? Just be up front about your points
Ask a researcher at your local uni and not a bunch of idiots here.
Furthermore, my argument isn't that it causes autism. It isn't that there are any noticeable affects from vaccines, no deformities, no sudden disease or death.
My argument is that heavy metals build up in your body and may be reasonably assumed to affect development in some way in the young. Injecting any level of mercury into the blood of anyone, but especially the young, is just a bad idea. At least wait until the majority of development is done.
What, Common Core got to you, too? Stop depending on spell check and actually read what you fucking type, you god damned illiterate.
No wonder you don't know what a virus is, outside of your infected porn file.
>Quit arguing like a Jew
We should totally do that. I agree. A lot of these vaccinations are of questionable value , and we only get them because of big Pharma
I'm not trying to scare anyone by using the word mercury. You don't need to put mercury in quotes either, mercury is in vaccines. Anyways, just want to highlight this.
"Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight... A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose."
You know that article is talking about mercury and its compounds in general right? Obviously it is a harmful element.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
>Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autism: A Review of Recent Epidemiologic Studies
>Thimerosal, a bacteriostatic and fungistatic mercurial compound that is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been used as a preservative in vaccines since the 1930s.3 Thimerosal is metabolized to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. An extensive record of safe and effective use of thimerosal in preventing bacterial and fungal contamination of vaccines has been established,2 but some have suggested that increased exposure to ethylmercury due to the increased number of recommended immunizations in the first 3 years of life may be associated with the increase in autism prevalence.
>Although certain formulations of influenza vaccine are the only remaining source of thimerosal exceeding trace amounts, the exposure of children to thimerosal in vaccines has been largely eliminated. Furthermore, because an association between thimerosal and autism has not been established, this theory should no longer be a concern.
Unfortunately, the precautions taken by the AAP and CDC calling for thimerosal removal from vaccines appears to have led to unintended risks. In particular, inappropriate recommendations by autism advocacy groups27 regarding treatment of autism (e.g., use of chelation) and avoidance of vaccines (e.g., influenza vaccine) may mislead parents to place children at unnecessary risks.
fyi, articles pertaining to a specific compound are much better as sources when discussing it, like my earlier analogy, I wouldn't link an article about sodium burns to discredit salt.
more coming
That is one of the most imbecilic ideas i have ever read and the fact that a medical profesional blurted it out is even more astounding. Does that imbecile not know how the immune system work? Hell, even you know more than him and i bet you never took a course in that.
And no, vaccines don't work like that, it's simply that mutated viruses, that appear naturalyy, sometimes are mutated enough to no longer be detected by our immune system as an old recognized threat and the vaccines no longer work on them. This is why new vaccines are researched and issued.
Funny thing here - Thompson is one of the guys that has worked on the original paper that has tried to prove that there is a link, and when serious peer review tried to look into their data is the moment they did that - so practically they have proved that they are liars themselves. That's why that article has been nullified and he has lost his medical credentials.
BTW they don't use heavy metals, they use some chemicals that have a mercury atom in their formula - absolutely nothing in common between them. Othersie you should be terrified of the idea of eating a hamburger - you'll get at least 10 times more heavy metals from one hamburger than you'll get from all the vaccines in all your lifetime.
You understand that I'm not talking about autism AT ALL right? Like not even a little bit? I'm talking about mercury entering the body.
>My argument is that heavy metals build up in your body and may be reasonably assumed to affect development in some way in the young.
What are you basing this off?
The amounts of mercury one would take in through a lifetime of vaccinations is incredibly trace, and there has yet to be any data that seems to show the amounts linked to any negative effects.
We have been using thimerosal in mass vaccination since the 30's and we were using it in MUCH higher amounts back then. Do you not think that in the near century since we started we wouldn't have picked up on some of these purported effects by now?
>I'm talking about mercury entering the body.
Well, according to that study the amount of mercury being injected into babies has been cut by a factor of ten in the last few decades, so the parents and grandparents of most people will have been getting much, much higher quantities as people have been for nearly a century.
So if it is that bad, you're a lot less fucked than they all are.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Amongst other things. You understand that mercury is 100% recognized to not be safe at any level, as I quoted earlier? That it fucks up your brain? Are you really arguing that mercury isn't so bad?
>still debating whether vaccines are good or not
I hope all of you doubting this get polio and shit.
see Actually vaccines work for all of the above, you just get more of the viral ones because viruses are far more deadly.
Are you completely stupid? You don't know tre difference between metallic mercury and chemically bonded one?
>after an accidental intake of mercury
gee it would be nice to know the dosage, because i'm going to bet it's far far higher than what is in vaccinations
If her argument about immune system had anything to it, people in the past would have no problem fight off polio or pox, right?
I don`t undestand people against vaccinations. It is actually one of the most natural processes your body learns to adapt. Basically you inject the body with dead, sterilized virus and your own body will practise and learn how to destroy the virus next time.
There is a counter of how many children died in the west as a result of their parents not vaccinating them against preventable illnesses - from 2008 that number is currently at 350 000.
>A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose."
>youu understand that mercury is 100% recognized to not be safe at any level, as I quoted earlier?
You'd intake 40 micrograms of mercury if you eat 2 pounds of salmon
inb4 "injecting it is different" the bioavailability of mercury in fish is almost 100%
You understand that "100% recognized to not be safe at any level" doesn't mean that trace amounts will cause damage?
The average person Intakes far, far more mercury than they would from a lifetime of vaccines from various food sources over a year.
I'm not arguing that "mercury isn't dangerous", I'm arguing that, like pretty much every other toxic element, it is harmless in the small quantities that one encounters it everyday in.
>people now a days have a far better immune system
yes... from being given vaccines....
youtube.com
you dont even want to know
you don't vaccinate for bacteria you uneducate cuntbag
"there is no known safe level of exposure."
THERE IS NO KNOWN SAFE LEVEL OF EXPOSURE.
Thimerosal breaks down in the body, and half of the weight of the thimerosal is ethyl mercury after it breaks down.
shit science behind herd immunity. Absolutely guilt laden bullshit for you to accept what ever they give you
Yeah I think it's some Jew bullshit. We managed just fine without it.
Also, in relation to I understand that a baby wouldn't be likely to eat 2 pounds of salmon, but your argument rested on the idea that mercury "builds up" in body tissues. So the timescale over which the food is eaten shouldn't matter.
Not to mention children in communities where fish is the major protein source like many places in japan and asia, they would be getting much more mercury from thier diet than anyone would be getting from vaccines.
If what you claim is accurate then presumably there would be widespread developmental damage in these communities?
Afaik that has not happened.
And I'm just arguing that because it's dangerous, it is a good goal to minimize one's exposure to mercury in any way. Remember, I did say that my kids would be getting vaccinated, just not while they are still babies.
Yes, you do. Bacterial (as well as fungal) vaccinations are a thing.
>uneducate cuntbag
oh the ironing
>allot
1) vaccines are injections OF THE VIRUS you're trying to avoid. often times a type you can't get where you are, like bird flu H1N1.
2) many vaccines only offer 'herd' immunity to a disease, and are pretty much useless if only one person takes them.
3) vaccines can cause death or autism
so TL;DR government put every disease into an injection that makes you into a retarded sheep.
>shit science behind herd immunity.
Elaborate?
Does the concept not make sense?
If more people are vaccinated, there will be a lower chance for people who cannot be vaccinated, to ever encounter someone with the disease (even in a non symptomatic form) and then get infected.
What's the flaw in that?
>1) vaccines are injections OF THE VIRUS you're trying to avoid.
read:
>I DON'T KNOW what a vaccine is
I know you're baiting but you could at least put some effort in
There is no scientific study behind the current CDC schedule. You cannot test one at a time, no double blind studies no less, then conclude its OK to give 8 together because 1 seemed ok.