>Cartoon or comic has Angels
>They're just dudes in robes with pigeon wings
>Not the infinitely repeating four-dimensional spinning eye-covered wheels that are perpetually on fire known as Ophanim
>Not the Kaiju sized multi-faced six-dragon-winged burning cosmic horrors known as Seraphim
>Not the deformed blue haze abominations known as Cherubim
Its like they never read the bible.
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Nobody who believes in god has ever read the bible.
>Comic book writers tend to take far more complex mythologies with entirely different cultural context and scope and try to boil it down to its most simplistic form to serve their purpose of making a funnybook page look epic.
The church also depicts them as either people or babies with wings. It's more to do with the fact that angels are depicted in a form that are comfortable to humans which is actually a power angels do have. Also the high ranking angels like the cherubim and seraphim don't directly interact with humans or dabble in their affairs.
Do you honestly think that comic book "artists" are going to draw this type of shit when they can't even get a grasp on human anatomy?
This.
I still like the idea that the closer an angel is to god the more horrifying it looks, really makes you think
>Fwipt
>Fip
Sure it's cool and different and I would love to see them depicted that way, but why bother?
Most autors/artists just prefer some easy to draw, easy to understand humanoids with wings, and honestly if they ever tried doing something different they would do a piss poor job by turning them into boring eldritch monsters that do nothing.
>Two wheels
Wow so challenging to draw. So Lovecraftian
Is there any comic with badass heroes fighting against eldritch abominations? Besides Hellboy, I mean.
Dr Strange had a lot of heavily lovecraft inspired stuff.
You obviously underestimate artists' laziness.
>"Oh, man, look at all those fucking eyes. I am not drawing all this shit, I am just gonna draw it once and then copypaste it a bunch of times."
It's supposed to be so many rings moving in all directions it looks almost like a sphere. I think was trying to show how if artists did actually try they would still fuck it up.
...
What about el grande padre?
He got defeated by Fused Shaggy Blanco.
>Instantly, I came under the Spirit’s power. I saw a throne in heaven, and someone was sitting on it.3The one sitting there looked like gray quartz and red quartz. There was a rainbow around the throne which looked like an emerald.
>Lightning, noise, and thunder came from the throne. Seven flaming torches were burning in front of the throne. In front of the throne, there was something like a sea of glass as clear as crystal.
In the center near the throne and around the throne were four living creatures covered with eyes in front and in back.
>7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like a young bull, the third had a face like a human, and the fourth was like a flying eagle.8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and were covered with eyes, inside and out.
>Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I sawseven golden lampstands,and in the midst of the lampstandsone likea son of man,clothed with a long robe andwith a golden sash around his chest.
>The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow.His eyes were like a flame of fire,his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, andhis voice was like the roar of many waters.
>In his right hand he held seven stars,from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, andhis face was like the sun shiningin full strength.
Care to have a go at drawing that?
Ah, balls. Messed up my >.
Lessens the impact, somewhat.
Not sure why you replied me with that.
pic related is example of different depictions of angels, even if some include humanoid forms (which the angels in pic consider an aberration)
some more
I guess by "grande padre" he assume you were talking about God, not the DBS meme.
Probably not what you meant but Neil Gaiman's Sandman provides lots of weird stuff that might interest you.
Is it worth the read? The crazyness reminded me of Saga and I hate that series.
No knowledge of Saga. I'd say it's worth it for the art and world building alone. I'm partial to things mytholgical and prefer fantasy to realism in my fiction. If it helps decide I also follow Gunnerkrigg, Mare Internum (more hard scifi than fantasy), Scarygoround, The Property of Hate.
Pic related is "angles" discussing the "true" nature.
It comes from middle ages paintings.
Supposedly, it also comes from Greek depictions of gods. Like the greeks were like, "What's a supernatural thing gods can do? Fly, I guess? Sure. Give 'em wings that'll be ga good shorthand for gods." Then later artist were like, "whatever that can be what angels look like, too. Why not? It's easier." So, it basically comes down to every time period's artists being some kind of lazy.
In what part of the Bible are angels and their hierarchy and all that shit described?
Genuinely asking.
>wheels are a metaphor for angels that keep the business in Heaven running
Don't even ask where I got it from. It's from The Salvation War.
>God created man in his own image
>His closest servants are eldritch aberrations
It's not
There are only seperate verses about some supernatural entities that act powerful or just are overwhelming for a spectator.
>Cartoon or comic has angels
>They're sluts
Wasn't the cherub in Lucifer actually some fucked up looking troll thing instead of how they're normally depicted?
Which comics have good monster design?
I'm talking about megaten-tier demon design.
I think they looked like that because they fell when Lucifer rebelled. The other cherub's just looked like glowing sphere's compared to them
I came here to post SMT.
Seraphs are cute! CUTE!
Yes, we have this thread on a regular basis.
They are beings that are from a different plane. Human minds just can't interpret what they are looking at.
Even when they appear human-like in the Bible the first thing they say is "Ok, don't freak out. Don't be afraid..."
Imagine being Ezekiel and God gives you these visions of angels and you have ZERO point of reference for what the fuck you are seeing.
humanoid just looks better
Talking to some people who are way more informed than me about this apparently the most common explanation is that "in his image" means spiritually, not physically - we have free will and creativity and shit that angels and the like do not. In that manner we are like God.
That doesn't sound right. Catholics consider physicality part of the soul.
Catholics think alot of things. I wouldn't heed them any mind.
>dude god loves you
>TIME TO BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY LOL!
The point is that original man was made righteous and sinless but with the ability to make his own mind, not that God literally looks like a bipedal mammal.
You know this symbolic gesture Jesus was making with the bread and wine? Nah, man, that shit LITERALLY becomes flesh and blood when you eat it.
You know how the Bible we have says to NOT pray to things other than God? Well, we interpret that to mean its ok to pray to other people as well as God. His mom or, hell, even random dudes we think are really cool.
I'll never understand how people can so vehemently follow a religion they know so little about
How are they supposed to job to make the heroes look good if they are superpowerful hyperdimensional creatures?
>nerd complains about how angels are depicted
>literally makes shit up about how they're supposed to look
>bonus points if they start dumping images they got off tumblr that have nothing to do with biblical angels as an example of how angels are supposed to look
>literally makes shit up about how they're supposed to look
Burger education, ladies and gentlemen. Now go and learn world history with your comicbooks and cartoons.
They are based on the humanoid Archangels.
Oh yeah stupid me forgetting how the prophetic visions describes angels as spatial anomalies, giant monsters and 'deformed blue haze abominations'. Oh wait, it doesn't.
There are ones described in the Bible as abstract chimera things and a mass of wheels-with-eyes
FPBP
>I looked, and I saw beside the cherubim four wheels, one beside each of the cherubim; the wheels sparkled like topaz. As for their appearance, the four of them looked alike; each was like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the cherubim faced; the wheels did not turn about as the cherubim went. The cherubim went in whatever direction the head faced, without turning as they went. Their entire bodies, including their backs, their hands and their wings, were completely full of eyes, as were their four wheels. I heard the wheels being called “the whirling wheels.” Each of the cherubim had four faces: One face was that of a cherub, the second the face of a human being, the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.
Ezekiel 10:9-14
I always thought god should just have no true physical form at all and can only be seen as however he wants to be because his true form is completely incomprehensible to anyone, but he’ does tend to just look like a guy with a beard
Yeah just post Ezekiel as if that doesn't prove what I just said.
>HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU FUCK PLEASE MY BFRRAAIN UUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU I'M SO UUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Make his enemies superpowerful hyperdimensional creatures too.
... okay. Level with us. How is that portion of Ezekiel not a description of a pretty monstrous looking being from a prophetic vision? I don't know about you but MY hands and wings aren't covered in eyes. Do you have a good reason for discounting that specific description from that book?
kill yourself before it's too late
The human mind can only recognize God as pure light. Judges and old testament prophets were regularly struck blind after seeing God. Either temporarily or permanently.
>MY hands and wings
what the fuck are you?
...
Discounting what? My point continues to be that OP's description of those orders has no scriptural foundation. That the Seraphim and Cherubim are obviously inhuman goes without saying.
It absolutely looked to me that you were harping on the inhuman nature of angels being inaccurate but now I'm picking up what your laying down.
>portraying angels and other supernatural beings from the Bible accurately
>still being accused of blasphemy
It's like telling someone your dreams and you have to say "alright this sounds stupid but it made perfect sense at the time. "
Six winged, many eyed sounds more like insect type of stuff to me.
Simple answer, OP. Divine beings take the form of whatever the beholder finds more familiar/intimidating. When Angels come to earth they're winged white dudes in white and gold robes because thats what Americanized global culture tells them angels should look like
I've always like the angels with both actually. Supernatural the show actually does this OP. Angels are played by normal dudes but they're just flesh-machine vessels for the giant horrors. There was a fun scene in the show where this angel bad guy is dealing with some normie mortal shit and he says how depressed he is walking around as a balding guy instead of "giant skyscraper with the head of a lion, on fire, that is my true form."
But overall giant monster angels are underrated.
I want to write for DC and I want to write a Zauriel Rebirth where Zauriel actually has a "host/vessel" that operates as a "secret identity" of sorts. That guy is a billionaire televangelist who's basically Joel Olsteen. Zauriel's true form is the monstrous one but when he's inside his human flesh suit he looks like normal pic related or he can be a normal human.
The point is this televangelist is a bit of charlatan but he always says he's a "servant of the lord" and Zauriel's like "Yes. Yes you are and you serve your Lord through me regardless of what your opinion on the matter is." Zauriels first fight in his host body ends up completely wrecking the pastors mega-mansion so when Zauriel finally leaves his body, he's left naked in the burning rubble of his home.
Sounds a bit too much like the Spectre.
Id read it
Yeah well the Spectre has a different mission and parameters really. Zauriel's got his orders from the Silver City so although the characters would use similar methods of human-other-spirit combinations they do different stuff.
The point of Zauriel's host is to give him the secret indentity part of the "super hero" that he is and build a more grounded mythos. Also juxtaposition the angel and the charlatan makes for a good story about what counts as true faith and how humans handle these religion issues and ideas in a world of Supermen.
Same issue as trying to have "truly alien" aliens over recolored/slightly odd humans. Potentially too bizarre and detached from the human form, and thus unrelatable and unusable as a character that drives the story and fosters any sort of emotional response or connection.
>not faggy stuff like in my JRPG bullshit
I always thought stands from jojo made good Angel designs.
They have this perfect mix of mechanical and biological. (some better than others) Angels are always mentioned to be more like machines than living creatures, and stands emphasize that perfectly.
You cant really place what the hell they are. you cant call them aliens, they arent robots and they arent alive, they are just 'humanoid'.
They have just the right amount of familiar and unfamiliar to create something very 'other'.
>Superior attitude
>Divine being
>Metal nipple cups
Dick status set to erect captain
I'd read the shit out of this.
You can even have the likes of the Phantom Stranger guest star.
And maybe Zauriel's mission will conflict with the Spectre at some point.
And how much of the a secret id is the televangelist? Like... how much of either is used?
I tried reading Saga, and it was shit. Too much bullshit drama for my tastes.
I love KSBD. I think the main difference is that the characters are more likeable and I really wanted to learn more about the world because it's completely intertwined with the story.
In Saga it's just humans with prosthetics. It may as well have been set on Earth. The setting is completely unnecessary to the story because it's on par with daytime dramas.
>And how much of the a secret id is the televangelist? Like... how much of either is used?
What do you mean how much? Like how much of the story is focused on him? I'd try to make it 50/50.
The first time Zauriel possses him is literally in the middle of a his sermon on Sunday in front of millions of viewers. He, Joseph Bethlehem, does this bit where he asks the audience to select a Bible verse, raise their hands and the spotlight randomly picks one and then he interprets it for them. It's always something overly pandering too, like "well, that just verse means God wants you to be successful and to GIVE that success to others!" It's all feel good stuff.
One day a man, old-as-sin with grey hair, wrinkled skin and yellow teeth gets the spot light on him. He's not the nice looking rich guy like all the others around him. He asks for a quote from the Book of Revelations. I haven't decided the verse yet, but basically when Joseph says "Book of Revelations I LOVE that one of course, lets see..." After he reads the verse he just stands there blankly staring for a second. Everyone is waiting tensly. Then the Church's steeple gets hit by lightening, the video screens behind him suddenly shatter is cracks shaped like angel wings.
The whole audience panics, the broadcast is shut off. He finally starts moving again, his wife runs up to him. The thing he says is "Weapons. I need weapons. Where is a place where one can obtain mortal weapons and salt? I need salt." So basically he's still Joseph, but he's acting so weird no one actually knows what's going on. Zauriel does not care. Zauriel is on a mission.
I think later everyone just thinks he's going crazy. They IRONICALLY don't BELIEVE he's being possessed by an angel. Zauriel takes over whenever he wants. Joseph can be driving down the street when it happens and Zauriel will just wreck the car, walk out unscathed and continue about his business. Joseph wakes up in whatever ungoldy mess Zauriel gets him in.
How did people start thinking angels were just ladyboys with wings? Did 1200s artists just only know how to do portraits before being commissioned by the church. Did the Pope just lazily skim through the passage about Seraphim?
Renaissance artists just weren't as obsessed with looking cool and badass.
I follow Saga regularly, but I agree with you. I've been meaning to give Kill Six Billion Demons. What am I in for?
Selective perception, user. Just like Galactus. If we mere mortals ever saw them in their true forms we'd die or go insane.
Trust me, it's better this way.
Yeah honestly I blame renaissance artists and lazy artists in general sure their painting are beautiful but they don’t really strive for a unique versions of Jesus or the angels based on the Bible I mean look at this painting
I mean all the angels religious figure and Jesus are all portrayed as humanoids which makes sense for Jesus and the humans but then you get to Satan’s portrayal as this fucking thing, I guess you can see it as evil being portrayed as hideous monstrosities while angels are all human looking pretty boys
Note I don’t know why the images came out sideways
Devils don't come from hell beneath us. No, they come from the bottom right corner of the screen.
Yep, but yeah I just took the pictures from one I had save on my hardrivr from an art museum I went too, but I find it interesting how weird Satan looks like while everything else is normal
common angels and archangels are more like this, right? I mean, they saw angels looking almost like man, besides the lightning face and flaming eyes (that could also be metaphorical)
When you say the Hail Mary your asking for her to pray for you. Same with the saints. Basically asking them to pray with or for you. It’s why the “pray for us sinners” line is there.
I read somewhere it was because they knew the angels would "fly" so they drew guys with wings symbolizing flying. The angel meme spread from there obliviously..
Could Invictus take Michael?
I actually brought up this point with a Christian once and they just resorted to the "i-it was symbolic" cop out they always do.
If angels don't have free will, how the fuck did a ton of them rebel against god? Did god specifically make them rebel just so he could punish them just because why the fuck not?
You know, I hear this shit all the time but has anyone really tried to actually do it and it's proven to be a massive failure? Because I've never seen or heard of an example where the characters were too alien and the book/movie/whatever tanked because no one could relate to them or whatever.
Jews read the Old Testament all the time, though, and have a grand tradition of biblical commentary dating back millennia.
This question can be aimed at Christian theologians exclusively.
So symbolic shorthand taken as a literal interpretation.