The worst thing about Doomsday Clock is that now there are definitive answers to whether Rorschach's journal gets...

The worst thing about Doomsday Clock is that now there are definitive answers to whether Rorschach's journal gets published and whether Ozymandias' plan works, and from now on, every time someone finishes the book, they're going to head to Google and ask for answers to the questions Moore left unanswered, and they will fucking get them.

What happens?

I don't think it's as bad as the hypothetical person who reads Before Watchmen first because hey it says BEFORE Watchmen.

Still dumb as hell

the journal gets published and the plan fails in like 6 years

People riot and demand the head of Ozy.

So he defeated a god?

Watchmen is still its own self-contained entity. You can watch American Psycho or Donnie Darko and never watch their sequels. They're not lesser movies just because someone decided to cash in. Same thing applies here.

Fuck it.

If Watchmen was a dismantling of the idea of the superhero, Doomsday Clock is the antithesis.

.....American Psycho has a sequel?

Yeah, but it doesn't have Bateman, and it sucks.

I mean, it was pretty obvious that was going to happen.

And if you don't like it you can easily just not consider it canon. I don't consider Before Watchmen canon either.

Yes and it is HOT garbage.

Before Watchmen is obviously a prequel, though. They'll be as common as people who watch the Star Wars prequels first.

I agree, but normies will want their answers and they'll get them.

>Watchmen is a deconstruction
>Doomsday Clock is a reconstruction
>Watchmen is good
>Doomsday Clock is shit
checks out

Normies already think the squid is stupid. Their opinions on Watchmen are already retarded. No point worrying about them now.

The worse thing is that show how dumb johnsfags are, they hate the watchmen movie, but at the same time justify Johns, it's irrational.


Doomsday clock is shit, because comes from a guy that has no political education, doesnt know shit about history or social issues. Johns gave watchmen an end that was retarded.

What ambiguity though?

>Rorschach's journal gets published

Was that even ambiguous? I mean this isn't Inception this was a schlubby journalist we had never met before who clearly wasn't just going to throw this in the garbage.

>Ozymandias' plan works

His name is fucking Ozymandias, the king who ruled a dead empire. The last thing Manhattan tells him before he fucks off is that it doesn't really matter if his plan works

>whether Ozymandias' plan works
Anyone with half a brain would know Ozy's plan wouldn't work. That literally the point of his name, or the "nothing ever ends" remark.

didn't stop Johns from spelling out the meaning behind Ozymandias's name straight from the man himself

So what

>m-muh mystery and ambiguity
Haha, get fucked you David Lynches.

how the fuck ozy didn't have some kind of "it's fake as hell and someone's out to stop the piece plan" is shit

so it defeats the purpose of his name by having him be aware of the irony.

and also treats the readers like retards while letting the writer preen that he got the obvious reference.

Jesus, this so much. I only really started enjoying cape comics when i decided to pick and choose the shit that matters to me a la carte. Continuity is bullshit.

Johnsfags are illiterate

I don't think Watchmen could've been any more blatant about Ozzy's plan failing in the end.

>Nothing ever ends.

Well, I can't defend that, I'm just saying of all the Doomsday Clock gets wrong, showing Ozy's plan failing isn't one of them since it's the only posible outcome, as hinted by the end of Watchmen itself.

That fake mad ranting was the reaction but it had some elements so that the president started an investigation which revealed the truth 7 years later.

>His name is fucking Ozymandias, the king who ruled a dead empire
No, Ozymandias (i.e. Ramesses II, aka Ramesses the Great) was a powerful and successful king considered the greatest monarch of a three-thousand year kingdom. The irony of the poem "Ozymandias" is that *after enough time* even the vast accomplishments of such a man are rendered moot.

Watchman's Ozymandias could usher in long era of peace with his murderous lies and his name's reference would still hold. "Nothing's ever over."

More examples
You can watch Star Wars and never watch the prequels, read or watch Fight Club and never read Fight Club 2, watch Alien and Aliens without watching pretty much every other film in the franchise.

No it wasn't. Rorshach's journal would sound like info wars, and he could barely write. The point is the tragic irony that this conspiracy would be true but still look nuts but not as nuts as what really happened

Granted, but the problem is that at a cursory glance you can't tell what was its own thing and what was a ill-conceived appendix. You're OK but think of someone born today who looks into Watchman 20 years from now and just reads it all without knowing how bullshit most(!) of it is.

Even if the peace wasn't permanent, but are we to believe it failed specifically because of Rorschach's journal, specifically in Ozymandias' lifetime?

This.

>mfw Johns will try an equivalent to Tales Of The Black Freighter

Yeah no one would believe rorshach

Although I remember that ozy said that I could not leave the smallest detail loose. Besides, the newspaper where was journal was a newspaper that was supporting Rorschah, so it is not uncommon to publish it. And although it was conspiratorial some branch of the government had to investigate a little, tie all the digs and already.

>"i"
>fucked up grammar
Hmmmmm i wonder who made this post

>It got published
>No one gave a shit except for the CIA
>Some black guy killed Seymour and stole the journal
>The CIA following the trail from the journal and the killed scientists discovered Ozy's little plan
>The government tired of Ozy's meddling in politics, released their findings
>Now the world is ending and the black guy became Nu-Rorschach.

>every time someone finishes the book, they're going to head to Google and ask for answers to the questions Moore left unanswered, and they will fucking get them.
Won't someone think of the children!

This sounds pretty accurate.

Why does Rorshach constantly talk like he's greentexting

Pretty much. Doomsday Clock stated that no one believed Rorschach's mad ranting except for the government which used the clue from the journal and the whole dead artists and scientists to discover the whole scheme.
It's pretty obvious when every dead experts all have a connection to Ozymandias and the "alien" squid have a human brain inside of it. Plus it's was Ozymandias' corporation that benefited the most from the fake peace.

People just getting into comics today pick up Watchmen without being thrown off by Before Watchmen. I seriously doubt something that doesn't even have Watchmen in the title is going to do more harm than that shitfest. Though someone born today is probably going to be fucked by the staggering illiteracy we have now more than anything. It'll be a miracle if they read Watchmen at all.

Ambiguous endings are the crutch of the lazy writer.

He's a Sup Forums-tier autist before Sup Forums even exist.

Sounds mighty edgy of you.

>Plus it's was Ozymandias' corporation that benefited the most from the fake peace.
How did they benefit any more than all of the other people in the world who didn't die in a nuclear apocalypse?

fitting, this is Johns we're talking about

Made bank selling NYC related products. And some weirdo insider trading.

I don't remember that in the comic.

>about the pic
Were the monitors and the overvoid aware that they were witnessing "stories" in the bleed, yet unable to perceive the source of the stories?

If Dr. Manhattan has the same awareness, was he trying to change the story to see if the heroes of DC(Most notabley Superman) would still persevere, succeeding where he may feel he failed?

And as a "puppet who can see the strings", would he know that his experiment would not succeed?

Nothing ever ends, user.

Read the text parts, particularly the one in chapter 9.

He knew what he was planning so he marketed products to manipulate people's emotions.

kek

Was Nixon still the president? Or was it Robert Redford as alternate Reagan

Nobody believed Rorschach's journal, that's the point, but it did start the snowball rolling down the hill, of course it would eventually come out, especially with the sheer amount of people working on that project, something would slip somewhere, especially when the likes of Nite Owl or Rorschach could figure it out

>the worst thing are things that are not even confirmed to be true Watchmen reality yet

lmao, k

Redford is President in Doomsday Clock.

You're retarded

Doomsday Clock went with the idea that Redford really did run and win in 1988 and got reelected in 1992 upon revealing Ozymandias lied days before the election.

No matter what side you're on leaving it up to the reader lets us have these great conversations about it. Doomsday Cock just spelled everything out and ruined it.

You're really grasping here, OP.

Doomsday Clock changes nothing about Watchmen. Watchmen is still a stand alone story.

Doomsday Clock is a glorified Elseworlds that allows the concepts and characters to be used in the main continuity. Thats it. Red Son never got ruined, Kingdom Come Never got ruined, All Star Superman never got ruined, and neither did Watchmen. Stop sucking Moore's cock

>Kingdom Come Never got ruined
hard to ruin something that is already shit

This. Watchmen will not stop being a masterpiece for anything that happens in Doomsday Clock as almost all run of super heroes is not good because it is replaced by another medioce writer (examples: The run of waid after morrison left the JLA or The guardians of the galaxya de jurgens later when bendis took the series.)

I will fight you user

We live in a vast and expansive multiverse and if you do not believe that Doomsday Clock is the same world as Watchmen, it doesn't have to be.

>REeeeee Cable is popular and comics are enjoyed by children for once in history

Hey Magog is actually pretty cool.

No, but he did defeat some dude who thought he was a god.

True, a newcomer asking for a "Continuity Reading Guide" should be buffeted with replies telling him to stop caring about continuity and only read what appeals to him.

Quite possibly almost any recommended story is often self-contained enough on its own that you won't need to read prior stories from before it.

Continuity is literally only good for a minor sense of achievement and amazement when you recognize something from a past run or if it's a long form run that the author has been setting up for years (Morrison with Final Crisis), at worst you'll be one of the basement dwellers here who keeps complaining why X is in Y when he's busy doing Z.

>TFW this happened to me by reading Dark Knight Strikes Again after reading Dark Knight Returns
He'll live to read another day.

Well, Johns is actually pretty open about it, or well alluding to it based on what we saw.
>Walden Two on Clark's Bedside Table
Sequel to a book by a different autho. In addition to that, Walden Two was a counterpoint to the themes of Walden.

>The Ozymandias quote by Horace Smith
An excerpt from the poem "Ozymandias" by Horace Smith. Smith's poem was written in competition with his friend Percy Shelly, whose "Ozymandias" became a classic, while Smith's is largely forgotten.

I can see this too user. It kind of puts a nail in coffin of the story. It wasn't meant to have an ending like that. When reading Doomsday Clock it really did feel like I was going back to that world and seeing what came of it and like... I shouldn't be there? Like this was wrong.

That too. But my imagination works differently. If it's published by the same company, it's canon basically. So this is a continuation of that universe regardless of it's writers intentions. Which I read a meta here. Watchmen didn't WANT to continue, but DC is making it continue so now we get this zombie storyline that could be interesting.

Just like Dr.M left them, their original creator and "God" left their story so their universe is just sitting there.

> if you do not believe that Doomsday Clock is the same world as Watchmen, it doesn't have to be.

>Doomsday Clock is a glorified Elseworlds that allows the concepts and characters to be used in the main continuity

Watchmen's always been part of the main DC multiverse simply be virtue of being a comic published by them and literally based on it's characters. So it's what they say it is, canon or not. However you can look at is as timeline divergence (we don't know what the original time line was) that has their universe crashing into the rest of the DC universes. Like it's been sitting there suspended by itself all this time and now it's moving into the rest of the multiverse and that's changing everything involved.

Basically every piece of Watchmen media is it's own universe in a cluster in the larger DC universe.

>Watchmen
>Before Watchmen
>Doomsday Clock
>Watchmen (2009)
>The End Is Nigh (video game)
>Sam Hamm script
>Terry Gilliam script
>David Hayter script

WTF. If Moore decided to go on a shooting spree because of this it would be entirely justified.

They also published Kingdom Come, Watchmen doesn't take place in that universe either.

Dear God...
This an utter butchering of the original comic

It's still a shit comic.

>They're not lesser movies just because someone decided to cash in.

You are objectively incorrect.

How so? It all makes sense to me. The guy who stole the journal was an acolyte.

The antithesis is probably Final Crisis.

it's Supreme

How is it a butchering? It changes nothing about the original story.

This is basically what everyone said when the film came out and speculated about how the world would move on after the ending. That people would find out about the squid project and plunge the world into utter chaos in like 5 years. Which makes this attempt at a sequel all the more shitty.

He's Sup Forums avant Sup Forums, and he read the equivalent of The Daily Mail opinion columns every single day.

It's a miracle he still talked at all. That shit's poison.

He would know, and he would proceed anyway. That's sorta how he works.

Normies ensured that book has the cultural relevance it does now. Comics only read by comics fans go nowhere.

...

Vanilla Rorschach? PTSD from finding too late the remains of a missing girl he'd been searching for, this compound with evidence she'd likely been subjected to inhuman conditions and circumstance until her captor felt her too inconvenient, leading back to the above conclusion, probably sank into his mind just how complete he and society failed due to ignorance, negligence, hesitance, reluctance and incompetence.
Just too much disgust, sadness, fear and anger in one night to process.

His abrupt sentences are likely what few coherent thoughts he can focus to the surface before his mind wanders back to memories and imaginings of what happened. Which are crystal clear since he can freshly detail them at request to Malcolm and gets flashes when he looks at inkblots.

He also seems to have been numbed to most emotional expressions aside from outbursts of outrage.

The feelingof not knowing what happens after the ending was part of the story. Too bad once again company owned stories and charcaters proved to be the worst thing to happen to comics

>The feelingof not knowing what happens after the ending was part of the story.

No it wasn't. The ending was open for you to use your headcanon, but there were some pretty clear clues to what was likely to happen.

Pretty much this, especially what Manhattan said to Veidt before leaving.

The plan was so fool proof the only thing you'd get is the rantings of a madman and a conspiracy theory. Johns is retarded as fuck.

Not this scenario. There are a lot of situations I could see but not this. This makes no sense considering how many holes were filled in the plan to make investigation impossible. Literally the only way to find the plan out would've been for Veindt to admit it. This is just spitting on Watchman.

I hate to bring it up, but this is one of the movie's worst sins. That line is the most important line in the book and they left it out.

>That line is the most important line in the book and they left it out.

Even in the ultimate cut? That's a shame.

How is it spitting on Watchmen? It's a separate thing. You can safely ignore it.

Not when it's being put out as a continuation of watchman.

>Watchman's Ozymandias could usher in long era of peace with his murderous lies and his name's reference would still hold. "Nothing's ever over."

That's the fucking point you idiot. His entire plan is based on the idea that there's an official end point where he can say he won and world peace is accomplished and the end will justify the means, and after that point nothing can ever go wrong.

By saying that life will have to continue in this new world, where there's still a chance things can get fucked up, however small, and that the peace can end, however long into the future, it means that it wasn't worth it and never would be. Because the price he paid for a hypothetical infinity was so high nothing finite could ever justify it.

Veidt's plans was fucking doomed from the start.
How can every country in the world let go of the fact that hundreds of scientists, artists, and architects who all have connection to Veidt in someway just mysteriously died? His idea of an alien squid though ridiculous enough to surprise and shock the public, will not going to be believable with anyone with half a brain. Not to mention the fact the the plot was found out by the likes of Rorschach and Nite Owl of all people. Even his unironic use of the name Ozymandias hints at his eventual failure.
Nothing ever ends, user.