I'm never gonna get good at drawing Sup Forums shit, am I? I might as well just remove the fucking drawing tablet from my amazon cart and just buy some socks for christmas.
Is it too late to get into drawing cartoons if you're 19 and never drew before? Pic related is my attempt at making Raven. It fucking sucks. It was drawn with a mouse in like 5 minutes.
God damn it.
I JUST WANNA DRAW LEWDS FOR FUCKS SAKE! I WANT TO BRING MY SICK FANTASIES TO LIFE!
unless if you're making meme edits, drawing with a mouse is absolutely worthless.
try practicing on paper instead if you don't have a tablet
Doesn't matter if it's on paper - it's still shit. I just can't draw. I feel like it'd take fucking years to get to the level of skill a drawfag would need to be to contribute to Sup Forums threads and make r34, as stupid and embarrassing as that sounds.
Every drawing book I find tells me how to fucking draw real life, but I don't want to draw real life shit. I wanna draw the shit cartoons from my head. Is that even possible?
How do drawfags fucking do it?
You start drawing real life shit and then start developing your own style until it becomes cartoon shit.
Or just draw bad cartoon shit and say it’s abstract.
Just don't visit /ic/, they'll drag you down
better being a politician or write books, it's too, too late
One of the ways I learned to draw is to just constantly doodle and then refine it.
In school we often did art projects by starting with a grid. Create a grid on an image (perhaps about an inch or half inch) then draw the same grid structure on a larger piece of paper and double the size of it.
Then you sit there and fill in the boxes basically.
It just doesn't seem as intuitive as writing does (yes I am a retarded writefag)
Do drawfags make up poses on the fly, or do they actually just find pose references and just copy it over and draw the character in that pose if that makes sense? Or do they eventually get good enough to where they no longer need pose references?
I already don't visit /ic/. They don't really do cartoons from what I can tell. I've never seen a cartoon thread there before. It felt more appropriate to post this on Sup Forums anyhow, since I'm asking about cartoons specifically.
I'll basically look at a character like Raven, and I'll try drawing her like she looks in the picture, and it'll always come out looking wrong no matter how many tries I give. Although I HAVE gotten a little bit better results, it still looks shitty. I can't imagine how long it'd take to get good enough to where I can draw her actually doing shit from my head like I want to.
and heres an attempt at jinx.
it's like I have the fucking shape in my head right, but i cant translate it into a drawing, not even by doing it on paper.
Just keep on going user
I think I know how you feel, when I was a kid I always got buttmad when my drawings didn't come out the way I intended them to but I think if I had any advice to give it would be to try and focus on the individual aspects first
like, start doing their hair first, if it doesn't come out good erase it and try again and just keep going. You mentioned that the OP pic was done in 5 minutes, you'll never make a good drawing in 5 minutes unless if you've got some serious skill. Even I with my own amateur drawings I usually take no less than 30 minutes to get them done and that's when I really wanna get them over with quickly
Well it's like this: whenever I try focusing on the individual parts first, it's like I shut out the rest of the pic in my minds eye and I end up making the part too large or small, and then I can translate the rest out.
One thing I do, and I don't know if this is frowned upon, but if I'm drawing a character for the first time, I trace a picture of them, just to get their proportions and shape construction down, then redraw it with those things in mind.
Just get the tablet. You can draw and fix mistakes without hurting your drawing thru layers and better yourself
Just keep drawing, i'm gonna be 19 very soon and i've been drawing and animating with a mouse for about 7 years now and i'll probably start using a drawing tablet one day, i'm not even that great at drawing but I love it and over the years I have been improving. Just keep drawing and one day you will look back and see how far you have come.
Keep going, don't give up. Draw Jinx again and again till you get it right.
No, dude, that doodle has some charm. You can definitely make a webcomic. I hope your comedic skills are up to snuff though.
Look man, the first thing you gotta do is stop feeling sorry for yourself and draw. To draw from your own imagination, you need to build a visual library, meaning you've basically memorized what the object in question looks like. Can anyone do that? Yes, but it takes time. But you can still make good art by using /references/, they're extremely important for both beginners and even advanced artists. If you really want to learn, start with a pencil and paper. If your end goal is to draw lewds of waifus on Sup Forums threads (honestly pick a better goal, people on here aren't exactly going to do anything for you other than anonymous praise), then you're going to need to learn human anatomy and line form first. There's tons of shit on youtube but you can start with something like Loomis books or even something like Drawabox.com. It'll take time but just stick through the basics because the fundamentals are everything (otherwise you end up like artists who can do decent anime shading but their anatomy is atrocious).
If you're really passionate about this, then get the tablet but you have to be sure you stick through it because learning to draw does take time. Another tip is to never rely on 'motivation' when drawing. If you feel like you have art block just power through it and force yourself to draw; sometimes you just have to force yourself for a few minutes but you'll keep wanting to draw and that practice will help you.
Visit the beginner general in /ic/, get educated on L O O M I S and proportions etc and in months with good consistent practice you should be at least decent.
Also, your doodle isn't too bad. If you stop beating yourself up while maintaining humbleness you will go far.
This one came out a bit better.
I tried to do this again and it came out better than before. Still shit, but it's better. So :/
Thanks for the advice.
I want to get a drawing tablet still though, because that way, I'll have spent $82 on it, which will then lead to the tablet being on my desk, and I am at my desk everyday, so it'll shock my ass up into using it since I hate wasting money.
I'm also very afraid of not having time to draw. I have spent the past 3 days straight working on a programming thing from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed, but then in bed I drew shit in a tiny sketch book for 30 minutes until I went to bed.
I might just be over complicating shit though.
1. What the fuck are you doing with a mouse. Get a tablet with pen.
2. Practice drawing on paper first (might be a personal thing idk). Drawing on a tablet (smooth surfaces in general) should become much quicker and fluent once you're confident on paper.
3. Figure Drawing (breaking up things into geometrical shapes) is absolutely mandatory if you're /beg/ tier (and still afterwards but then you might actually have some skill and can ruin your training with figure drawing).
4. Always use references.
5. Practice regularly and hard.
>Pic related is a 10 minute sketch I did on my phone using my fingers. Take that how you want.
So if artists always use references, does that mean I'll never get to the point where I can draw shit from scratch?
Is the idea to basically get enough references to where you can cobble together elements of them into the one you want and then draw that?
>the second mention of figure drawing
Symbol drawing, symbol drawing. I'm tired.
Unless you've memorized exactly how something looks and is affected by the physical factors present in your drawing you'll need references.
It sounds like you're really wanting to do this, so I think you should get it. Your art probably looks worse than it is digitally because you're on a mouse, which makes it pretty complicated to do anything decently without a ton of effort. If you find that you don't have too much time, even half an hour goes a long way as long as you make a habit of doing it every day. let's say you can crunch in 30 minutes a day for a whole month, it'll add up over time and it's much better than if you only drew on days when you had more time.
>So if artists always use references, does that mean I'll never get to the point where I can draw shit from scratch?
No, you can, it's just that more experienced artists have gotten past the notion that using references is stealing (it's not unless you literally trace the source), and only use bits and pieces that they need. Different people have built up different strengths in what they know in their brain; some have amazing sense of anatomy and can whip up a pose just like that, but lack color theory so they look up references to get a better idea before they do something like a background.
You can get there if you really want to user, just never give up.
>does that mean I'll never get to the point where I can draw shit from scratch
not necessarily
you just need to really understand anatomy and the human form before you can draw reliably from your imagination
an understanding of anatomy can come from studying anatomy (not as boring as it sounds if you want it, especially if you want lewds) and practicing it over and over again
Good job I do see improvement
How long does it take with consistent practice to get to the level required to draw shit rule34 and Sup Forums stuff? I've always wanted to make my own fap material.
Depends on the artist, for some people it doesn't take long and for others it takes a long time, but just keep drawing day by day and time will tell
chillax user, i sucked at drawing too, i still practiced and a lot though, studied a bit a loomis too. don't give up, i've been through that depressed moment where i didn't believe i'd get any better too, and i started drawing at 19.
Not OP but... tell me Sup Forums, with nothing held back. am i a bed shitter or have i made it??? am i an artistimo or an autismo? I have i bridged the gap?????
Like I'm fine with not being on par with picasso or whatever, I just wanna get good enough to where I can draw shit fanart and stuff.
It's never too late user. People in there thirties start drawing cartoons. What you are doing is symbol drawing i recommend you draw people from life to get a sense of line control and widths.
Try this: Just doodle porn, everyday, for a month, non stop. I guarantee that you'll be much much better than you were a month before.
Drawing is mostly about practice. If you focus enough, you could get to around 3rd mastery (of pic related) even with absolutely ZERO talents.
Another thing. You are expecting to get the completed picture on the first run through. That is impossible. Start drawing the basic shapes that make up the picture lightly. Then ovr that darker. I usually do three passes. The first pass with blue pencil for shapes, then lead for final lines...
Not bad
draw lewds with your ms paint skills first and then we'll talk
Tell me that I made it! Somebody cup my balls! Say that I breached the barrier.
hahahahahahahaha
They'll say you're bad no matter how good you are, but there's actual advice and plenty of guidance for someone of OP's skill level there.
Eh, construction could be better I see symbol drawing in those hands. You gotta draw something that has a mass, that has shading to show 3 dimensions, but keep going!
what barrier?
I think its fine.
I believe in you.
trust me dude, as long as your dedicated to what you want to do you can get better in no time.
>19
What is it with little baby teenagers thinking their life is fucking over at this age?
So you guys are saying I'm shit? How's this? Where do I rank? Can I make money from patreon now???
You have some potential, I would say just be patient and keep drawing for another year or two and who knows maybe you can make some money from this
>shit
not at all
>this
Finish it, my man
>Patreon
You need more luck than telent at first to score there, keep draing and who knows?
You are not bad, but you cant tell how good someone is by some unfinished drawings.
Relax, user.
I'd say it's luck and who you know, too. Certain artists who are skilled and lucky have a better chance than others of hitting it big when they buddy around with other well known artists who are willing to share their friends stuff in places that are more visible. Tumblr and reblogging are a god send for some people trying to make Patreon bucks. Sup Forums can be pretty good, too. Sometimes people look into artists if they see enough art they really like floating through threads.
It's better than that deviantart sonic shit with disproportionate hips ughhhvhhh
>You have some potential
Yeah, now that's what I wanted to hear. Not bad for a 25 year old who decided to just pick up a pencil.
>Finish it, my man
And then just like that my wings get clipped. Reality sucks. I can't finish it, because I'm shit. A little rough sketch like that would take a real artist a few minutes and it'd look way better, that took me about 15 and looks garbage. Any attempt at real features would end up a laughable mess. Like something outta Chris Chan's mind.
I don't post on /ic/ so I'm just grinding this shit out myself. Just trying to draw anything that looks cool but I haven't really improved in months.
>And then just like that my wings get clipped. Reality sucks. I can't finish it, because I'm shit. A little rough sketch like that would take a real artist a few minutes and it'd look way better
Do not compare yourself to other artist, each artist is different and has their own style including you, just focus on yourself and worry about being better than you were yesterday. And don't say your shit. Be positive and trust me you will get better
One trick I learned from my mother who was an artist is try to draw a person or thing but don't ever pick up the toenail of of the paper. In other words draw something in one complete stroke. That way you train your mind to draw what's really there and not what you are imagining
Pencil*
>I'm never gonna get good at drawing Sup Forums shit, am I
fucking keep doing it you self pitying faggot
Truth
the sticky in /ic/ is a fucking gold mine. You can grind up your drawing skill pretty quick with the resources they have.
I honestly dont think the community is all that bad either. I see people get perfectly honest critiques and help there semi-regularly. Once you hit a certain skill level though, there isnt much help to be found in the community
Use references. Break figures down into simple shapes like spheres and boxes. It'll take a while but anyone can get serviceable at drawing within a year of dedicated effort. But it's a lot of work user, and bitching isn't going to help you.
>I'll basically look at a character like Raven, and I'll try drawing her like she looks in the picture, and it'll always come out looking wrong no matter how many tries I give.
You need to learn forms, not just copy what you see.
Pic related. I used your OP pic and my vague memories of Teen Titans to make this scribble. The more you learn about anatomy and form, the more easily you can recreate something without focusing on a reference. You'll get better steadily, and eventually your halfassed doodles will start looking better than your old painstaking, meticulously planned masterpieces.
your early 20's go by quick. and your brain is still pubescent and stupid
>tfw 24 and going to school with a bunch of 19yr olds
some of them are definitely better than me but I can buy alcohol
Draw, draw, draw is the only way to improve.
And do it on paper. Cheap paper, because you're going to have to do it a lot.
Just about every "learn to draw" book advises you NOT to draw a nose, and then an eye, another eye, etc. That is wrong, wrong, wrong.
People (and other things) are SOLIDS. They're basically spheres, cylinders, and cubes. You learn how to construct the basic shapes, mark off the location of the features, and only they do you draw eyes and noses and such.
Best books I've ever seen are by Andrew Loomis (example: "Fun with a Pencil") and Jack Hamm (example: "Drawing the Head and Figure")
May be hard to obtain physical copies but all of Loomis' books have been scanned and can be found on-line.
alexhays.com
Dude, just learn construction. Try practice on drawing basic shapes, because that's what everything is made out of. Then work your way from there.
>19
You're a fucking baby. You've got your whole life ahead of you.
I'm almost 30.
How does one learn forms? Also christ man I'd love to have that skill level.
The book, The Natural Way to Draw, is good. Use it in addition to drawing Sup Forums shit you like.
You won't git gud by drawing cartoons exclusively.
Op here again, this is attempt number 3 at Jinx, only this time with pen and paper in my sketch book I keep by my bedside. I am in bed atm drawing shit.
This one came out a lot better, but I cheated and looked at an image of Jinx. Is that bad?
You can see I fucked up her hand. She was supposed to be holding a dildo, but for sfw reasons I chose a banana instead.
keep drawing friendo and you'll get there
Definitely better than the first picture, but you're doing a lot of symbolic drawing (meaning you just draw what's in your head without a proper understanding of anatomy. Although it applies slightly less to anime-inspired styles, everything is a deviation of the fundamentals, so even for anime it's important to know basic human anatomy). Looking at pictures to learn from them is good practice; hell , you can even trace over things as a study thing (though don't posts those as your own, this is purely for learning purposes).
I recommend you try to practice fundamentals; things like basic anatomy because it still applies to anime/cartoon styles.
Yeah my anatomy is fucking horrible...
Here is Hank Hill as a Super Saiyan God 2 for meme purposes. His glasses are fucking shit, and his arms are hilariously out of sync and stupid looking.
Literally at Sonichu levels of art up in here now. Maybe even worse. Maybe someone gets a kick out of this though.
But you know what, this was pretty fun to draw, so :/
Trace.
What is the best resource for learning anatomy? Should I be going specifically for art books, or will any books do? Arent there sites out there that generate reference pics for you?
What the fuck are you doing man, if you want to get better then start grinding through some books and exercises, if you want something that looks good just trace it or copy a picture side-by-side, you can't have the best of both worlds. You are not going to get better by trying to draw a perfect Jinx from imagination 10 times
Alright I guess I will get some books then.
Downloading some loomis stuff now.
Learn anatomy and trust me you will improve a lot over time, good luck
Excellence is a habit, we are what we repeatedly do.
I'm not a good artist, so this is going to be a case of "do as I say, not as I do."
The best advice I can give is this; everything is basic shapes. Circles, squares, and triangles. If you can look at something and break it down into the shapes, then things just become refining and adding detail. Drawing a head you start with a circle. Add a square for the jaw. The torso is a triangle, the hips another circle. If you can get the basic shape of the person, then you can refine that shape. Then refine it more, add more details, make it more recognizable. But you need that foundation to build off of first. Your "skeleton" is your anchor, it's your reference point for where everything is, without it things can get wonky fast. Not all artists do this, but those artists are ones who have been doing it for so long they can basically see the skeletons in their imagination now and draw around it.
Look at model sheets and drawing guides. There are tons of them online, of drawing figures, heads, hands, feet. Look at all of them and practice the steps that are shown there. You can teach yourself for free. I really recommend going for traditional drawing guides rather than cartoon or anime for this reason; traditional drawing will help you learn to draw cartoons, cartoon drawing will not.It seems odd but cartoons do follow certain rules and laws. They break a lot of rules as well, but you have to know the rules before you can break them.
Draw every day. Even if it's a 10 second doodle of a dog, even just circles, just draw something every day. Your hand will get more used to the activity and will over time follow your mind's eye more.
Probably one of the hardest things is just making yourself draw. It's incredibly frustrating to put time into something and it doesn't turn out right. But you have to just say fuck it. You draw it, you hate it, you draw it again or you draw something else. You just keep drawing. Draw a page of just hands. Each one will be better than the last.
Very good user, most will recommend you start with a book to train observation like Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain or Keys to Drawing, but just going through these books matters a lot more than the order. Get a good sketchbook, don't be afraid to erase bad lines 10 times over, and remember you are learning a skill that takes time just like every other artist had to do at some point in their life
>Is it too late to get into drawing cartoons if you're 19 and never drew before?
Yes. It shouldn't be too hard. That picture isn't even that bad for a starting artist. If you keep working on it every day you'll be good in no time.
So you basically take the shapes and kind of chisle them into what you want?
Tracing is a double-edged sword. Because usually the pictures you're tracing are the finished work. It's kind of like trying to build a house but instead of using studs and boards to build the walls, floor, and roof, you're nailing siding and shingles together to make a shell on the outside. You're tracing the final details and not what went on underneath that gave the picture its balance and form.
What I encourage you to trace would be pictures that show all of the steps that went into making them. From the skeleton to filling out the form, the basic details, the more refined details, etc.
You can't skip the basic steps until you've mastered them, just as you can't build a house without first getting the foundation down, or you can't make your spaghetti without boiling your water first.
scribd.com
This is a bit dated, and drifts between more advanced and simpler steps, but it's a book I own that I've found helpful.
OP, shut up
I started drawing at age 19 to git gud and also for my drive to create lewds (I have really specific fetish types and inding content of my likings is hard). Trust me, you need to practice a lot. but it's worth it. I suggest you start by drawing what you love.
To this day, my most well done drawings are those I did for my own satisfaction, and most of them are oversized tiddies. So shut up, grab a pencil and start harnessing your skill. I highly suggest a tablet if you want to get more polished and experimental work done, but having 3 pencils B2, B4 and B6 and and a decent eraser can make a lot of decent lewds with enough practice.
You're doing fine. If you keep trying often then you'll be fine. You don't need any books really. It might be too hard and discourage you. Look into books when you're decent already. You can do fine just learning from cartoons. People will have you think otherwise but it's how everyone learns.
Read books about anatomy.
Practice simple geometric shapes.
Spend a lot of time on perspective.
Really analyze the things you're trying to draw and try out various techniques and experiment with as many different ways of trying to capture an idea as you can.
Pic related, since you're drawing Jinx again
You can start with something as simple as a circle and just add elements until you have a rough idea. I looked at a reference pic of the character for a few minutes before deciding I could just draw her hair as rough cylinders for the sketch.
Learn how the basic shape of the human body works and how it looks when it's moving around in different positions. Open your 3rd eye to 3D thinking.
>drawing tablet from amazon
Digital art is the most absolutest fucking garbage there is. I'd recommend this to go in your amazon cart before a fucking drawing tablet.
Learn how to draw on paper first.
Ignore this man
That's a good way of thinking of it. Think of it like carving a piece of wood or stone. You don't just go straight into trying to carve the eye of a marble bust; you cut away the most basic shape, and then you cut it closer, and continue on and on until you're focusing on the minute details one section at a time.
As an artist, after starting the circle for the head the first thing I draw is the eyes. At the same time I know other artists who swear by starting with the spine / flow line first and work out a rough torso before they ever even begin to start drawing the head. There isn't any definitive best / right way to draw characters but there are tools and methods that we can use to make it easier to find the tricks and methods that work best for us in getting the results we want.
This picture was one of the earliest sketches I received from a commission I got. You can see a lot of what would be the final details, but can you see the shapes behind? The sphere inside of the heads, the lines which the artist used to determine where to place the eyes and other features? The sketch is build around those basic shapes.
To be fair, I only started drawing when I got a tablet so I didn't feel like I was wasting tons of paper with badly drawn boxes
If you over rely on transform tools/Ctrl+Z that's bad, but anyone who says you can't learn starting digital is a luddite
The amount of work that you can put out with a tablet is limitless. I bought my tablet 3 years ago, learned to draw with it and already returned 40 times its price by doing commissions. It's a good investment.
I'm sure you have some real solid arguments for that.
Aside from "some basic bitches abuse ctrl-z!"
Hello, drawfriend user, nice to see you here, got a blog where I can see your work? I actually wanted to co-op with ya for a GG drawing
>Those tits
Yummy
Something I tend to be doing a lot is I find a single thing to draw and I just keep drawing it over and over again. I think I must have drawn Raven like 20 times by now. I also really like drawing Super Saiyans for some reason. I guess the hair is fun. So that probably explains my Jinx fascination.
Also that pic is good. I can see what you mean by composing the character out of shapes.
I mean...
I dont really have the money to sit here and buy all this paper and pencils, and I feel like having a tablet will let me have access to all sorts of avenues and tools. But the tablet itself is just a tool. I dont see why you hate the idea of it. Probably because you didnt really put any real substance to your post.
but yeah, if it means not buying shit tons of paper and having access to tons of drawing tools, it practically has paid for itself.
Thank you user.
Tablets are great tools, but you still have to put in the basics and the practicing. The come with their own benefits and faults. As someone who draws on paper I don't know how many times I've heard people complain about inking on the wrong layer while I'm sitting here with pens inking over my original sketch. But at the same time it takes me a long time to get that inked sketch cleaned up and ready to post online.
My recommendation? Do both. Practice with your tablet, practice with pen/pencil and paper when you're not at your computer. The two are different and have their own rules, but any practice is good practice. Doing both you'll learn to be able to transition from one to the other and find the mix that works best for you, be it mostly traditional, completely digital, some mix of both.
But the most important thing is to just be drawing. Be drawing all the time. Try to draw every day. Because when you stop it's hard to get started again. I used to love drawing, now I do it like once every 2-6 months. Don't wind up like me, keep pushing yourself.
All artists hate their work. They just either hate it instantly or they hate it a week later. Draw, hate it, draw more. Give up on sketches that aren't working and start something new. Learning when to say "fuck it" or "good enough" and move on to the next piece is an important lesson, and one many artists still struggle with.
I'm not the artist of this piece, I'm the fellow who paid the artist to do it. They do post on /aco/ and such though (and posted the finished commission in the GG thread there). They have a tumblr under the name "gewd-boi" - OI won't provide a direct link because they draw some awesome naked tiddies and I don't want to get banned.
As far as investments go, you don't need special pens or paper for sketching. Get yourself a package of printer paper and some regular or mechanical pencils. Fuck, draw on loose leaf if you've got it. If you're just practicing then fill up that page with sketches, half-finished, basic shapes, draw all over it, draw OVER your drawings. And then flip the page over and draw on the other side. Congrats, you just turned a 500 sheet pack of printer paper into 1000 drawing surfaces.
Here is some advice from a Sup Forums drawfag.
/loomis/ >>> /ic/
>I dont really have the money to sit here and buy all this paper and pencils
How much does a drawing tablet cost? Like, 160, 180$ for an "okay" one?
You can get a kit of compressed charcoal for 6$ and a 9x12 inch spiral sketch pad for 10$
>and I feel like having a tablet will let me have access to all sorts of avenues and tools
Right, because you can't draw, so you think if you invest enough money into the equipment, you'll magically sprout talent?
>Probably because you didnt really put any real substance to your post.
No, any art school you go to, they WILL force you to use traditional. He probably prefers the way it looks, but with traditional, it's a lot easier and accessible than digital art as well.
Seeing each brush/pencil stroke that was put into a piece is part of what defines traditional art. With digital, you lose a lot of that.
Alrighty then gonna message him on Tumblr in that case
>How much does a drawing tablet cost? Like, 160, 180$ for an "okay" one?
No. 80 bucks for one that is effectively indistinguishible from anything a professional would use. The little intuos is around 80 bucks.
>any art school you go to, they WILL force you to use traditional
Depends on what the course is. If it's something digitally related like animation, they won't. If it's life drawing of course they will. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get a tablet. If you learn how to draw on a tablet it's not that hard to transfer those skills to traditional. It's hard going from trad to digital, and it's the same backwards but it doesn't take long.
I've never gone to art school, just some classes at regular university, but my understanding of digital art classes is that you have to demonstrate some basic artistic skill and understanding as they're considered more advanced classes. Do they teach the drawing basics using digital tools now?
Only thing I need to know; if I only want to get a little better, like I'm fine making crap drawings if you can at least tell what they're of, do I need to go through like the whole /ic/ sticky and every link/book they recommend?
Seeing all those resources is daunting when I'm not trying to get amazing, just barely passable.