You just didn't get it

>You just didn't get it

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=4teJPCcJSQ0
youtu.be/xqlaXylsMwQ
youtube.com/watch?v=eWTJIBGNId0
youtube.com/watch?v=NuxPK3pNLUM
youtube.com/watch?v=eVYkpRYHOaI
youtube.com/watch?v=1tOD1livGRs
youtube.com/watch?v=h8q9pzXl_yE
youtube.com/watch?v=N6hqC5Z9was
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

i liked it, i would never consider collected the marvel movies, im thinking about it for the current DC movies.

>casuals will defend it and call this bland character "more human" than comic superman
Only a retard would think that dawn of the dead and sucker punch director could make a good character.

I liked Wonder Woman better.

BvS Director's Cut>MoS>BvS>WW>>>>>>JL>SS

Massive Mos/Bvs fan here (mos moreso)

There is little of note to not "get".
It's a matter of the audience being willfully blind or exaggerative in their criticism and needing to be spoofed.

> Superman destroyed the city
No only a single skycraper & a parking garage were destroyed while he was within Metropolis city limits and he personally did zero structural damage to them on purpose. (wyane tower he did none period, the parking garage he crashed into by accident after propelling himself out of the tower too fast and going into a tumble when trying to slow down)
All the other full buildings to be destroyed was done by the world engine/black zero or the scout ship crashing.

> Superman should have took the fight out of town
- He grabbed Faora by the shoulder and tried to fly/drag her out of town but Non tackled them.
- He punched Non into the train yard which is not ideal but still better then main street.
- He punched Zod high up across the sky to the edge of downtown to the point that there were no more skyscrapers in the distance. Zod swerved back into town after the last punch.

The audience basically want him to start screaming in the middle of the battle like a little bitch about "NO THE PEOPLE" drawing the villain's attention to them like a retard instead of just keeping the villain focused on himself.

We call him "more human" in the capacity that they don't allow him to use outlandish mary sue solutions that can make for a perfectly happy ending with no downsides & the fact that he can't save everyone. That triumph requires sacrifice.

And his Dawn of the Dead was good & had solid characters.

I don't know who's worse, the people who meme how Snyder's films are masterpieces or the people who can't stop complaining about a flawed yet good movie.

these

>good movie
eh, it's not good, but not bad either.

scene where hes saves people, next scene where he asks pops if he should save people. wtf?

i swear its like you people never even watched the movie

>next scene where he asks pops if he should save people. wtf?
His father was trying to drive home the point about his concerns of societies lack of stability if Aliens existing comes to light.
He didn't literally ask if he was the right thing, he knew, he retorted "should I have let them die" in a incredulous manner.
Pa knew that too hence his sickened look on his face and swaying uneasily against the truck.
He said "maybe" just to get his point across.

MoS Superman is more in line with Comic book Suoerman. I don't know where this fan version of Superman came from but it's not how Superman truly acts.

It's shit over it. There are no good characters, good story, good writing, or good ending. It's shit.
Your argument is mute. The whole ending shouldn't of even happened.

Name a worse Pa Kent. Protip: You can't.

Fucking terrible. He somehow manages to be worst than Amy and Cavill. Fishburne is the only good character in these movies.

People learning a super-powerful alien exists and dealing with that has been the point of Superman for quite a while now, if you ignore all the power level faggotry and general heroism. When you strip that away all you have left is a really shitty attempt to write Batman

nice argument lul

>The whole ending shouldn't of even happened.
But there is nothing wrong with a epic city sized battle on a conceptual level.
No there was nothing Batman-ish about it.
It wasn't about people reacting to Superman (bvs does that) it was about weather people should EVER know of his existence and if that would cause more harm then good that Clark could hope to accomplish.

I'm not wrong.
>Hack Snyder wants to make a realistic Superman movie
>last 20 minutes horrifying destruction porn

>It wasn't about people reacting to Superman (bvs does that) it was about weather people should EVER know of his existence

Do you expect people to just ignore the flying man in tights stopping every crime in town? One of the key characteristics of Lex Luthor, just as an example, is he has a point about Superman making mankind lazy or worship him like a messiah, yet at the same time just being jealous because he wanted to be seen in that way. Superman is not fucking Spiderman.

its the same kind of destruction in every other form of superhero media, just not forgotten and swept under the rug instantly. So yes, you are wrong.

>Attacks Zod in an open field with next to no one in the vicinity
>Flys through a grain silo for no reason which explodes
>Brings him to a populated suburban town
>Instantly destroys a store, some vehicles and blows up an entire gas station
>Leaves his mom there where Faora or the other two guys could easily kill her
This movie is so stupid

>We call him "more human" in the capacity that they don't allow him to use outlandish mary sue solutions that can make for a perfectly happy ending with no downsides & the fact that he can't save everyone. That triumph requires sacrifice.
I disagree. Most versions of Superman are plenty human. I don't feel that "more human" is the proper way to describe it. Whenever we are successful without any loss, whether due to luck or skill, does that make us less human? I don't want to say that this Superman is more "realistic," but I can't think of another word to describe it at the moment.

I like solutions which save everyone and end happy. The thing that I like most is when a difficult problem is solved with a complex solution. The harder the problem is, the more effort the answer should require. But Superman should be able to put in that extra effort, because he's meant to be beyond us. That's why I loved the turning back time scene in Superman 1, though it should be a one-time thing. Using powers and environment in a clever way shouldn't make a character a Mary Sue, just a really good tactician. I think Superman can come up with solutions that save everyone without sacrifice and still have a good movie and plot. You just need the right writer.

Nah it wasn't stupid at all.
1 - He is in a blind rage.
2 - He has no idea how fully durable he is really at this point nor how durable Zod's armor is or how durable he is while contained in the armor so smashing him into stuff is plenty reasonable trying to incapacitate him.
3 - The silo was more or less intentional, the 711 was not he was looking down at Zod's face that later portion of the flight.

>implying that showing destruction makes it bad
So wait, not having any destruction is more "realistic" to you?

>I like solutions which save everyone and end happy
I not saying they are bad, only that doing something different then that is genuinely new & original for this franchise and raises the stakes and makes the threat feel more real knowing they aren't completely pulling their punches and being safe.

>that is genuinely new & original for this franchise
The movies only I mean.

>its the same kind of destruction in every other form of superhero media
In the comics, on the rare occasion that Metropolis DOES get fucked up, Superman sticks around to you know, help unfuck it.
You'd know that, if you read the comics.

So a montage of Superman repairing things would have improved the movie? It just had to be shown that he helps after the battle?

>Superman sticks around to you know, help unfuck it.
No proof that he didn't do so, they just didn't show it.
The fact that he rescued people after the senate bombing makes it likely he did.

To be clear, I think they should have shown it, I love Mos but one of the failings I acknowledge is the jump from killing Zod to the drone scene.
There should have been a montage of him rescuing people from the rubble, using his hearing to locate people & such.

Does literally everything need to be spoonfed to you like a god damn infant? Can nothing be left to your mind to fill in the blanks? Of course he fucking helped afterwards, hes fucking superman, why wouldn't he?

>blind rage

wow, such a good excuse. imagine if Reeves or DCAU Sups nearly decimated Smallville because they got angry.

the people that defend these films are impossible because they literally just use the context of the movie as a defense, as if we're unaware of what happened.

th74258
There's a difference between being spoonfed and good screen writing. This isn't an art house film, the audience should know what's happening.

> Of course he fucking helped afterwards, hes fucking superman, why wouldn't he?

Because this version of Clark has zero fucking personality or self-determination.

The only reason he even saves the world from Zod is being called out on live TV and then his mom being attacked. He's got NO actual character drive, his entire personality is driven by Ghost Dad telling him what to do.

So no, I DON'T have any reason to think he would help people. Maybe he just kept making out with his girlfriend in the middle of the 9/11 blast zone just like before.

No, your Superman is more realistic. Comic Superman is much more human. MoS Superman is a walking plot device and is treated as such the whole trilogy

It was good, still my favorite comic book movie alongside Avengers and Iron Man. BvS was shit tho.

youtube.com/watch?v=4teJPCcJSQ0
its like they never even watched the movie

im done explaining shit that i understood after the first fucking viewing

>implying

Again, he has to go to a priest to decide. He's indecisive the entire fucking movie.

>im done explaining shit that i understood after the first fucking viewing

And I'm tired of your penny-ante explanations like "Oh well technically Superman only damaged 2/3rds of one part of a building that totally invalidates your points" as though going frame-by-frame will somehow defeat the general arguments about how the destruction in the third act was terribly handled.

It's like arguing with a ninth grade debate club member who thinks that minute details are all that matter in a conversation.

>rlm: the post

>imagine if Reeves or DCAU Sups nearly decimated Smallville because they got angry.
Clark is responsible only for the 711 not the rest of the damage to the town. (hell the military did more damage then Faora or Non did)
>as if we're unaware of what happened.
You blatantly refuse to acknowledge the context.
Writing wise there is nothing wrong or incompetent about having Superman make mistakes while under dire desperation.
Just because you personally dislike a creative choice, does not mean that said choice was inherently bad or even badly done.

>Just because you personally dislike a creative choice, does not mean that said choice was inherently bad or even badly done.
Yes it does

>You blatantly refuse to acknowledge the context.

The context is irrelevant when the execution is a failure.

>Writing wise there is nothing wrong or incompetent about having Superman make mistakes while under dire desperation.

There is when they fail at it. The movie sweeps all of it under the rug so Lois and Clark can make out and some military chick can call him hot, there's zero consequences. General Stabler and Doctor Toby Ziegler don't even get actual funerals.

>Just because you personally dislike a creative choice, does not mean that said choice was inherently bad or even badly done.

People who need everyone to put
"in my opinion" in front of arguments deserve to get their computer fed to a wood-chipper. This is all opinion, if you can't handle that without people saying it first then that's your problem.

>Again, he has to go to a priest to decide
Because he justly fear's humanities dark side and thinks he should get a human perspective before making this decision for the entire planet.
>And I'm tired of your penny-ante explanations
And I am tired of your irrational sadistic exaggerations. If your problem is with the destruction in general just say that instead of "superman himself alone destroyed everything ever"
Refuting that does invalidate your points because your flat out lying about what transpired on screen.

>will somehow defeat the general arguments about how the destruction in the third act was terribly handled.
It wasn't handled badly on any level.
They gave it emotional weight & human perspective by showing Perry & crew trying to survive it, they made it scary and not glorified or silly.
It was nuanced enough that Superman never actually punched Zod into a single building himself. But of course no one noticed that.

youtu.be/xqlaXylsMwQ
Literally the first few seconds of the fight is Sups dashing toward Faora, pushing her through the wall and out into the street. imagine if there were people walking or running there, Sups would've accidentally turned them into pancakes in a fit of rage. doesn't seem particularly heroic.

my point isn't that Sups intentionally destroyed the town. it's that he, through rage or whatever, allowed Zod and his cronies to stay in the town long enough to fuck shit up. it's not like Metropolis where there's skyscrapers everywhere. he could've easily just surrendered to spare the town and fight them later or tried throwing them away from the town, instead of just brawling with them.

Spielberg changed the defeat of the shark in Jaws, Benchley protested to the point that Steven had to kick him off set.
Jaws is considered among the greatest movies ever made ending and all.

>The movie sweeps all of it under the rug so Lois and Clark can make out
They kiss before the fight with Zod, immediately after he rescues Lois from the phantom zone tear.
>there's zero consequences
Seeing the destruction transpire and seeing the characters have to experience it, is the consequence.

>lets Earth Dad die to keep his secret
>but still uses his powers often and publicly enough for Lois to figure out his identity
>and instantly becomes Superman when Space Dad tells him to
Its such a dumb movie.

But to be fair, "Space Dad brainwashed him for over a decade" is just as dumb.

>Because he justly fear's humanities dark side and thinks he should get a human perspective before making this decision for the entire planet.

Maybe if he wasn't passive the entire rest of the movie it might carry some weight.

>They gave it emotional weight & human perspective by showing Perry & crew trying to survive it, they made it scary and not glorified or silly.

You mean while Clark was busy fighting the gigantic CGI octopus platform? Such realism, such consequences.

And a couple of insert shots are not enough for "real consequences." It's still CGI buildings falling down.

>It was nuanced enough that Superman never actually punched Zod into a single building himself. But of course no one noticed that.

So? That doesn't wipe out the fact that Snyder's idea of consequences is CGI buildings fall down.

>pushing her through the wall
That Faora had already punched him through hence the giant hole were the front door should be.
>doesn't seem particularly heroic.
He isn't doing it to be heroic, he is doing it to stop the villain at all cost which is more important then being a hero.
>he could've easily just surrendered to spare the town and fight them later,
Absolutely absurd, he has zero reason to believe that once he is incapacitated they would not just destroy it for kicks immediately and long term he knows for a fact that they intended to kill the entire human race.
The deaths of 8 Billion people isn't something you risk being unconscious for just to save a tiny handful of bystanders.
>or tried throwing them away from the town
See 0:56, he tried to fly away with Faora in hand.
See 3:05 he drags Non into the sky and punches him out of main street.

>You mean while Clark was busy fighting the gigantic CGI octopus platform?
That was handled realistically in that it was designed to be a natural extension of Kryptonian tech, it was made up of the same nanites that form their computer systems.
If it had been a actual giant octopus caged in the world engine yeah that would have been outlandish and out of place.
>So? That doesn't wipe out the fact that Snyder's idea of consequences is CGI buildings fall down.
They are a valid form of consequences that most other superhero films are cowardly about. Even if it doesn't add to the emotional weight of the fight, it does add strongly to the scale of it.

Jaws isn't actually very good.

>It get's better in the second one, just watch the first one for introduction.

There's not much to get.

If you make a Superman movie, and you get Superman's character completely wrong, then it's going to be a bad Superman movie.

>CGI buildings falling down
would you prefer them to destroy REAL buildings? what are you trying to say lmao

>not muh superman
What a fucking retarded argument.
When I first heard about MoS, I had no clue about superman and only knew that he had some cartoons about him and that he could fly and stuff.
I saw trailer#3 and Nolan's name and decided to watch the movie. It was amazing.

If you can't appreciate a good movie, you should stick to reading your comics where superman fight a new monster every other week and the artists can draw anything. I don't understand why you'd want a movie instead.

>When I first heard about MoS, I had no clue about superman and only knew that he had some cartoons about him and that he could fly and stuff.
Kill yourself

Everyone on Krypton was genetically engineered to assigned roles in society right? So how did Zod, a person engineered to be a solider, get his shit kicked in by Jor-El who was just a scientist?

you are the reason we are in this mess, shit taste user.

>BvS but longer is better than the movie where Superman was not a dower brooding fag!
you're an idiot

everyone of those decisions was made simply because it would look cool. which it does. However as you said, it isn't very smart and not really all that good.

i agree with this sentiment

no u

>you can't!
...i dunno...maybe...

>It's a matter of the audience being willfully blind or exaggerative in their criticism and needing to be spoofed.
I think that you should blame the film writers for not conveying that information properly rather than the audience not getting it
movies are about communicating your message, and if they dont get it, the problem is that it is communicated poorly

>released 2012
>people still argue six years later
MoS is world-shattering, just like Superman is in the film. Beautiful.

this. what the frame shows is irrespective of what the production """Felt""" they were saying. if sooooooooooooo many people see it a certain way, and it wasn't meant that way by the filmmakers, then they failed, and the movie is a failure.

yes, some people are so stupid they will never fucking realize how fucking stupid they are.

superman had grown used to it as he lived on earth and zod only just got used to all of it by the very end of the film. it wasn't portrayed very well, like everything in this sad fucking movie.

>Jaws is considered among the greatest movies ever made ending and all.

ironically, the movie that this gif is from had a real building explosion.

>lol i have a funny gif! It means I can ignore reality!!!!

>only that doing something different then that is genuinely new & original for this franchise
It's really not though.

Nolan really blew up a plane.

Check the scoreboard. MoS was so full of bad ideas that its echos killed the Justice League movie.

I heard that Quentin Tarantino is working with J.J. Abrams on the new Star Trek movie.
Maybe WB should hire him for a new Superman movie? It seems like he likes him, judging by that dialogue in Kill Bill vol. 2. And his character from True Romance was a comic book geek.
youtube.com/watch?v=eWTJIBGNId0

This movie is fucking horrifying in terms of casualties and property damage.

I got it. I just thought it was to grimdark for a proper Superman movie. It made almost no impact on me emotionally while my mind just kept nitpicking it and I don't usually do that.

>It made almost no impact on me emotionally
But wait.
>I just thought it was to grimdark
>my mind just kept nitpicking it and I don't usually do that.
Being bothered, uncomfortable and upset is an emotional response. What you really mean is that you didn't connect with any of the characters, because they didn't behave in a way that you approve of.

Autism

there is legitimately people who didn't get it but that wasn't due to "muh symbolism". it was rather due to the fact that people weren't able to follow a very straightforward story and pick up on stuff like zod wanting to kill everyone until his dying breath. I love Man of Steel but it is definitely not a perfect movie

both are retarded. I always tell people to watch it but I never say that it's some masterpiece that can't be topped. those people are just naive. I personally feel that people who are wasting their time shitting on something they don't like are more pathetic though since they could be using their time doing something else. to make things worse, people whining about the movie are usually guys like who cannot even form a proper sentence and basically communicate with grunt-like sentences

>No only a single skycraper & a parking garage were destroyed while he was within Metropolis city limits and he personally did zero structural damage to them on purpose. (wyane tower he did none period, the parking garage he crashed into by accident after propelling himself out of the tower too fast and going into a tumble when trying to slow down) All the other full buildings to be destroyed was done by the world engine/black zero or the scout ship crashing.

Did you miss Superman smashing Zod into a power plant and a gas station? Or throwing Faora back and forth around Smallville? Or punching Nam-Ek into a train yard? Or bashing Zod's face against a skyscraper? Or punting him through a construction site? Superman most definitely causes deliberate structural damage in this film with no regard for others, because Hack Snyder didn't give a shit.

And it's no fucking accident that Snyder deliberately made Superman so clumsy that he trips over his own feet every two seconds and crashes into shit or has shit fall on him (like the car when he was beating on Zod). Aside from deliberately making Superman look like a tool, it increases the amount of damage he unintentionally causes. There was no need to make Superman so incompetent that he is unable to fly out of the way of danger without crashing into something like a noob.

>He grabbed Faora by the shoulder and tried to fly/drag her out of town but Non tackled them.

I think it's kind of hilarious how people, even fans of the film, still refer to Nam-Ek as Non. I feel like not enough people call out Snyder for basically re-using the same set-up as Superman II, so Superman ended up fighting Zod, a big dude and a woman, even though there were way more kryptonians in that ship that Zod could have realistically sent after him.

>We call him "more human" in the capacity that they don't allow him to use outlandish mary sue solutions that can make for a perfectly happy ending with no downsides & the fact that he can't save everyone. That triumph requires sacrifice.

There was a perfectly valid solution staring Superman right in the face regarding Zod in the form of the kryptonian ship and the technology inside it, if Hack Snyder didn't have Superman act like a moron and destroy it for absolutely no logical reason. Or the fact that Zod should have logically been pulled into the Phantom Zone Hole along with everyone else considering he didn't crash too far from where it was.

The entire movie is build on one asspull after another, made to ensure the designated ending of Superman killing Zod. And then throwing a hissy fit about it, even though a) Zod was an asshole who killed his dad, so Superman should have no reason to cry, b) Superman does not have a no-killing code whatsoever in this film and c) he shouldn't care that Zod was a fellow kryptonian since he had no problem destroying the kryptonian birthing pods, thus ensuring the kryptonian race beyond him and a handful of Zod's goons trapped in the Phantom Zone is now effectively extinct.

And Superman was a walking plot device with less humanity to him than fucking Dr. Manhattan and dialogue so wooden you could build Pinocchio out of it. Actually that goes for all the character in this film - I still cringe at Ma Kent's "The world is too big" exposition talk.

>with less humanity to him than fucking Dr. Manhattan
Are we still talking about the Superman who dives head first into Zod and screams "DON'T BULLY MY MOM", and crashes into a gas station because he's too angry to worry about collateral damage?

You know, Winter Soldier gives us a decent idea of what MCU's Captain America likes to do in his free time. He routinely goes for morning jogs, he likes to listen to modern music and watches modern movies as a way of connecting with the present day, he used to regularly visit the hospital to check up on aging war buddies, and he likes to engage people in his orbit to make small talk.

From what's been shown of the character in MoS and BvS, what does Superman like to do when he's not in tights or at work?

A lot of the Marvel films show their characters just being people.

>Starlord cleaning his guns/listening to music
>Peter dorking out with his friend
>Stark working on cars
>Cap visiting his friends
>Falcon helping vets

DC either doesn't seem to have time or doesn't have interest in those aspects of the characters, possibly because they're too busy trying to fast expand their franchise to catch up to Marvel. Wonder Woman had a little I guess.

>You know, Winter Soldier gives us a decent idea of what MCU's Captain America likes to do in his free time. He routinely goes for morning jogs, he likes to listen to modern music and watches modern movies as a way of connecting with the present day, he used to regularly visit the hospital to check up on aging war buddies, and he likes to engage people in his orbit to make small talk.
There's like, one thirty second conversation between him and Sam in the start of Age of Ultron that showcases that Steve really needs more modern hobbies and interests, because he's still stuck trying to look up his old buddies and haunts and hanging out with vets in their 90s and it's just not sustainable.
Less than a minute, but it told you so much about his character and what it meant to be a man out of time.
I still have no real bead on Clark after three movies because character isn't as important as speeches and "iconic" imagery.
This shit is why we needed Jimmy Olsen. But that's not important. They talk about how Superman was "humanized" but the movies just made him the most remote and austere he's ever been.

That's some completely insipid characterization for larger-than-life heroes. Captain America goes jogging, you see.

Yes, because he does the most stupidest thing possible and leaves his mother with THREE KRYPTONIAN SOLDIERS whose general he just tackled in front of them. For a scene that's supposed to showcase how much he loves his mother, it just shows how much of a moron he is. He's lucky they didn't take her as a hostage or just kill her right then and there.

It also doesn't fix the flat dialogue, Superman's complete lack of agency in the film and the fact that this movie pushes the "Superman is Jesus" metaphor so hard that it ironically turns him into the very same "unapproachable, boring god figure" that people have been railing against for decades.

>Because this version of Clark has zero fucking personality or self-determination.

This is a big problem I have with mos, and is why imho bvsu is the superior movie (despite making literally the same mistake again with Batman). In mos, important character defining moments were deleted or rewritten to emphasize humor or 'drama' (badly), thus leaving the characters somewhat hard to define. In the end, Clark/kal looks like a mask, and you have no idea who the hell he really is, hence all the 'not muh' surrounding the characters of this film. They feel like caricatures and discordant performances rather than like snapshots of rational people because key moments have been cut out.

The only explanation that I can come up with for why producers will do this (mcu suffers from the same problems and worse, ie iron man 2) is simply because they reeeeaaaaaallly don't understand writing, and yet they are in charge of the marketting. These marketting dumbos then put their trust in 'the fans', and to dopes who are dim enough to sign up for market research, who arguably know even less about writing, or even about people. Until wb / dc corrects this problem, their movies will continue to fall into the uncanny valley.

>>lets Earth Dad die to _honor his father's wishes_ instead of doing what he knows to be right as an individual.
Fix'd

>>and instantly becomes Superman when Space Dad tells him to
He didn't do that either. He put the suit on and learned how to fly but didn't out himself as a savior of the people even after surrendering to the us govt under demand of zod.

The movie is called man of steel, and reveals itself to mean 'steel' in the metaphorical sense from the very first time we see him saving people, where he is literally shown to be stronger than steel. The movie is about joe clark's journey to becoming a superman. It's a flawed film, but it's not stupid.

He goes jogging around famous American Monuments and teases Sam Wilson every time he passes him. That's not exactly mundane or insipid.

He said jor-el, not kal-el

I forgot how much of a hard-on for the army the promotion for this movie had.

>what does Superman like to do when he's not in tights or at work?
He has sex with Lois in the bathtub.

>People:"But why Superman is destroying the city? Muh destruction!!!"
>Me:"Fuck yeah! Just like one of my Animated Series!"
youtube.com/watch?v=NuxPK3pNLUM
youtube.com/watch?v=eVYkpRYHOaI
youtube.com/watch?v=1tOD1livGRs
youtube.com/watch?v=h8q9pzXl_yE
youtube.com/watch?v=N6hqC5Z9was

Why people these days are a bunch of sissys?

nolan fucking demolished a hospiital

>>Flys through a grain silo for no reason which explodes

Grain dust can cause Dust explosions, now you know why it happened.

>shouldn't of
you don't deserve the keyboard you're typing on, cretin. fuck off and keep your gob shut

FUCK.

NO.

Either Tarantino was writing Bill as someone who has NO goddamned idea who Superman really is, or Tarantino IS someone who has no goddamned idea who Superman really is and was conveying that through his writing of Bill's dialogue. Because Bill's little speech was just straight-up WRONG.

SUPERMAN is the symbol. He's the costume. CLARK is the person. Every time anyone tries to make a movie or TV series or cartoon or whatever out of Superman without understanding that, it turns to shit. Clark spent years as a relatively normal boy in Kansas before his powers started kicking in -- Supertot was Silver Age and hasn't been canon for decades now. Clark grew up as a (relatively) normal kid. He developed powers, got some information about the circumstances of his adoption, and had to deal with it, but he was still CLARK, from Kansas. He had friends, interests, favorite places to eat, he went to school, to college, worked on the farm with his Pa. CLARK came first, and is the person. SUPERMAN is just the suit and the symbol that he wears for the sake of other people.

Either Bill didn't understand that, or Tarantino doesn't.

It's not all that complex. I can get a knock knock joke, but that doesn't mean I'm going to like it solely on the fact that I understand what was conveyed. The same goes for this flawed film.

How is he that buff if nothing on earth is heavy enough for him to exercise?