Now that the dust has settled, can we admit Frank just doesn’t work as solo live action character...

Now that the dust has settled, can we admit Frank just doesn’t work as solo live action character? He may be able to carry a comic but live action is a very different medium.

He’s like Hulk and Thor: Works better as a supporting character.

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Nope. They added to much shit. If the storyline was streamlined, remove the DHS agents and have him fight more gangs it would have been much better.

No he can work but Disney are too much of a bunch of pussies to make something as bloody and morally ambiguous as Dexter.

>can we admit Frank just doesn’t work as solo live action character?

My number one pet peeve is when we get a subpar live action version of a character, people start attacking the character as unworkable instead of the shitty writers or producers.

I literally wanted to kill myself after waiting so long to see Luke Cage and Iron Fist done right in live action and then getting half-assed dogshit with the characters literally being in-name only versions of themselves. Seeing normies say Luke and Danny sucked and were outdated was the most infuriating things I've ever had to witness.

In short, fuck Jeff Loeb, fuck Mike Colter and Finn Jones, fuck JJ S1 for the horrible LC setup and casting, fuck the low budgets, and fuck Bendis.

But regarding OP's original point, a shitty live action adapation doesnt define a character. Otherwise we'd never have a good Captain America, Spiderman, etc.

>a shitty live action adapation doesnt define a character. Otherwise we'd never have a good Captain America, Spiderman, etc.

But Frank has had 4 tries at live action and the only one that worked was when he was a supporting character. Same thing with the Hulk: He didn't really work until Avengers.

There are plenty of good Punisher stories that would be great if they were adapted. Instead they keep trying to reinvent the wheel. I'd like to see an animated version of Welcome Back Frank though.

How many have Batman and Superman had?

I dont buy it. The Raid, John Wick and all other vigilantes with guns shows and movies prove Punisher can work. It's all about nailing the writing and casting.

>Same thing with the Hulk

Hulk is different. There's only so much you can do with his struggle between Bruce and Hulk personas. Frank is a much, much more flexible character in terms of plot.

The show wasn't shitty at all. Jon made for a good Frank and I enjoyed it when he Franked the Frank. If the show gets a second season I can see Frank becoming more focused on crime now that the ending showed that he admitted to himself that he loves war and violence more than being with his family. Sure the show had faults but I don't think it is anything that can't be fixed in the second season.

I think what we got would've made for a good second season. The first season should've been what we didn't see: Frank continuing his war against the gangs across America while taking out any other criminals that crossed his path. Do that, THEN start season 2 with him finishing his war and burning the body armor.

As it stands, it's pretty jarring to see him go from Franking guys to giving up being the Punisher all at the very start of the first episode, then all the political conspiracy stuff. Maybe the Marvel higher-ups in charge of the Netflix shows figured we didn't need anymore Frank just Franking criminals since he did that in Daredevil S2; I disagree.

problem with the Netflix show was they tried to make Frank a "good guy" he isn't a good guy he's a serial killer who just happens to kill other killers

>Hulk is different. There's only so much you can do with his struggle between Bruce and Hulk personas.
Don't be a pleb.

I was really looking forward to this show because he was the best part about Daredevil S2. But as soon as the previews started coming out I knew it was just going to be some shitty revenge plot. Marvel will never make a Punisher show about Frank Franking Franks. I didn't think the show was bad, but it wasn't a "Punisher" show. It was just some generic political consiparacy show. I think a series is actually the best way to make him work. Just episodes of different crime groups that he's going after. Maybe have some over arcing story if needed that can conclude at the end.

>Seeing normies say Luke and Danny sucked and were outdated was the most infuriating things I've ever had to witness.

That's beyond pathetic

I disagree. Frank wasn't depicted as a good guy, at all, just that everyone else was some much worse. If anyone was the good guy, it was David. Frank was basically a human missile who happened to have some feelings.

I fully understood why they did the storyline they did for the first season. Punisher doesn't have a dense mythology but this show sought to set up what he had and then beef it up. We got solid figures like Microchip and Jigsaw out of the deal; characters that belong solely to his mythos. The show needed that. From here, they will most likely have him start taking out gangs and crime syndicates, while also avoiding one pissed off guy with a fucked up face.

>Now that the dust has settled, can we admit Frank just doesn’t work as solo live action character?

Every version has been good except Lundgren, and that's more because of how boring that movie is.

The problem isn't the movies, it's the fact that fans want the ONE TRUE version of the character that doesn't actually exist. He's been an 80's action movie hero, a Western-esque revenge-driven gunslinger, an absurd blood-soaked death machine, and a PTSD-suffering modern dramatic antihero. All of these are valid versions of a character that boils down to "Mack Bolan with a skull motif."

>but Ennis

Ennis is one version of the character. He had decades of comics before that run was even a thing.

Punisher fanboys are the worst about character purity.

shit, nigga

well why else have they relegated Hulk to supporting character status?

It was. It was a bunch of SJWs circle-jerking themselves saying Iron Fist shouldve been non-white and Colleen was the "true" star, and people saying Luke was a boring brick character.

>It was.

Go outside, fall in love, get high. You're living the pale facade of a life.

>there is no true version of any character, you can make punisher a pacifist, black old lady if you want!

>He may be able to carry a comic but live action is a very different medium.
Oh, how?

>>there is no true version of any character, you can make punisher a pacifist, black old lady if you want!

Every version of the character we've gotten so far has been a white guy who murders criminals with guns while wearing a white skull on his chest in some capacity.

Don't play this game.

t.grown up man wasting his time on earth browsing an anonymous board about comics and cartoons

It would work if they had him actually fighting trashy criminal scum and over the top nemesis instead of this stillborn conspiracy drama starring sassy independent female sprinkled with some highly forgettable le tacticool mercenary action scenes

So? By your logic who can decide the line where a character top being punisher or not?

Your logic self contradict itself.

lmao, so you're doing that PLUS the worst moment of your life involved a fictional ninja and negro being misrepresented on TV.

Thank fuck I'm not you or I would off myself

I want them to go all the way with the Mack Bolan thing give him his own Stony Man Organization. Bring back Lynn Michaels, Henry Russo, Cole-Alves and even Mickey Fondozzi and make 'The Punisher' a team thing, at least for a bit. There's another thing Frank has been and that's a leader of men. Make him be the 'Captain Castle' he used to be and have a vigilante death-squad. He's had so many supporting characters and they're just thrown by the wayside.

I'm was that user, I just think that anyone wasting their lives doing something like shitposting about kids shit is in no position to tell others how to live their lives.

*I

God fuck I'm drunk sorry

Did you guys like imitation rick? I sure know I did.

Yeah, Frank as a loner was mostly an Ennis thing. In Baron he attempted to make squad at one point irc. I wasn't crazy about the show, but I get why it was made that way, people love character drama. I sort of wished they hearkened back to the storytelling seen in stuff like "Miami Vice," or "The Equalizer," or even "Person of interest, " A problem is set up and solved within an hour.

>I want them to go all the way with the Mack Bolan thing give him his own Stony Man Organization

He couldn't be an angsty edgemaster though, which is what most of the fans want. You'd basically have to totally rewrite the character again.

And Punsiher sidekicks don't stick around for the same reason that new mutants don't, every writer wants their own OC donut to be the popular one. The only ones that have had any lasting impact at all have been Micro and maybe Cole-Alves.

Well the biggest issue is that everyone wanted to see Ennis Punisher, with the big issue being that Ennis Punisher is basically not really workable in a MCU format, being a cold-blooded sociopath who Ennis actively avoided making sympathetic.

Frank needs to Frank things the audience wants him to Frank.

No way was David the good guy. He was a retard who knowingly endangered his whole family twice. Once just because he dicked around with the most dangerous guy ever.

All the Punisher movies have their merrits, people need to stop wanting Punisher to be a superhero. He will never do Batman or Spider-Man numbers, because he has a more niche audience and thats fine. Punisher needs to be gritty and uber violent, like 80s level

At this point I'm fine with what we got. Ready for season 2.

You're not getting The Ennis Frank. Every time they try to, it sucks.

You know what he means, dumb wojackposter.

I agree, the Punisher is best as a narrative device, not a protagonist.

I like him as a force at work within the Marvel universe, but following him makes it boring.

I think he can work as a protagonist, but if you're setting out to develop him, then you're making a mistake. His stories should be "plot," driven in that there's a problem and he comes in to solve it.

>My number one pet peeve is when we get a subpar live action version of a character, people start attacking the character as unworkable instead of the shitty writers or producers.

To wit: Superman.

>a shitty live action adapation doesnt define a character

Except it kinda does.

youtube.com/watch?v=PraUjsClgDM

>Punisher needs to be gritty and uber violent, like 80s level


Just slap a skull logo on Charles Bronson in Death Wish and you have the ideal Punisher movie.

Frank is a great character adapt, you just actually need to adapt the character. The problem with Netflix Punisher and with every other Punisher adaption is that they're too afraid to actually adapt the Punisher. I think Netflix in particular irks me because they have a pretty good actor for Frank but waste him on some stupid CIA plot rather than have Frank actually kill criminals. They also decided to tell another origin story despite Season 2 of Daredevil already covering the bulk of it.

>They also decided to tell another origin story

Superhero adaptations in general need to stop with the fucking origin stories. For a TV show, it can be done in one episode, two at the absolute most. For a movie, it can be done in less than five minutes - make it the opening fucking credits or some shit, like BvS (unnecessarily) did for Batman.

what's wrong with wanting to see your favorite characters done right? You would think Marvel would show some care.

Badass vigilante that kills lots of criminals. With such a simple premise the Punisher should have have endless sequels like James Bond.

Sorry, goy. Can't have Frank blowing away peoples of color and other criminal demographics like he actually would. Got to have a conspiracy of old mostly-white men.

The fact that he didn't execute Turk was enough to make me stop watching for a week.

Netflix Punisher starts off with sniping a cartel thug right in the head.

Shut the hell up. Just make racially mixed gangs of stereotypes looking like metalheads, punks, and bikers like they do in the comics along with the typical gang bangers. You know that isn't the reason, Punisher will never be yours Sup Forums

Thomas Jane Punisher worked just fine.

youtube.com/watch?v=_26siT7GDXo

This here. It was basically Punisher Origin pt 2. I had no issue with Frank trying to get back to a normal life after he killed everyone he thought was responsible for his family, and after the season he's put that all behind him.

The hell are you talking about? Ennis' Punisher had plenty of sympathetic moments. Sure, he was a bit of a sociopath but there were plenty of humanizing moments throughout his run, especially Punisher MAX. Aaron's MAX is the one that turns him into a complete asshole that was going to leave his family when they were killed.`3

I don't think he should have a team, but it definitely helps to have characters to bounce him off of or contrast him with. The alternative is to make Frank a mostly silent monster that everyone is reacting to.

I wouldn't mind seeing Micro and Curtis return or maybe someone like, Cole-Alves, O'Brien or Detective Soap showing up. Thirteen episodes of Frank stewing in his own edge would be overkill.

Frank kills Spooks all the fucking time, though.

He's a Ghostbuster?

Like? He's had FOUR major black villains since his inception that I can recall. Not counting nameless goons.

That doesn't mean you make an entire season where that's all he does.

to

>tumblr hates it for being pro-gun and about a white dude with a gun who kills innocent criminals and federal officers who dindu nuffin, even though the show is a blistering indictment of foreign COINTEL conduct, the rise of PMCs, and the total failure of all support structures for veterans struggling to come back from war
>Sup Forums hates it because it's 'not Frank' and he doesn't spend the entire show killing card-carrying members of the Nation of Islam named Tyrese Rayquaaza al-Sharir Jr., even though he fights government and international agencies all the time in the comics and the first two episodes well and truly fucking establish he is just ITCHING to get Franking on someone, anyone.

So many of the Marvel series have been flatly godawful that I find it kind of stunning nobody's been more amenable to the only good goddamn thing they've put out since DDS2.

He fights the mafia more than anyone.

The Mafia and drug cartels have always been his major thing. Again, just like Mack Bolan, the character he was based on.

Nah, that's retarded. The netflix show being shitty only means that the netflix show is shitty.

Punisher was just ok. Half the episodes felt like filler and Frank didn't do nearly enough Franking. Bernthal was a great Punisher but he was held back by a story that was completely forgettable.

He doesn't work in a series because he actually does the sensible thing and outright kills his enemies instead of letting them come back to bite him in the ass later. Additionally, of the Netflix Marvel series', he and daredevil are the only competent "heroes." Because of this, when writing for Punisher, you don't have much room to beat around the bush because he is both skilled and motivated. Something Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage all lack in some significant capacity. Iron Fist lacked the skill he should have had immediately after leaving KunLun; instead he's a mediocre martial artist with a 1-shot super punch. Jessica had moderate super strength and some decent detective skills but too often lacked any motivation to use them, but not nearly as much as Cage. Cage could have been a slam dunk, but no. They had to make it into yet another ghetto drama where everyone becomes a product of their environment and acts like theres nothing they can do about it. Even the guy that is literally bulletproof and super strong, is hampered by a victim mentality and being-a-little-bitch syndrome.


But yeah, Frank is fine live action, you just cant write him in a way that allows his rogues gallery to keep coming back every weekend.

>the character whose whole joke is that he can't shut the fuck up even though he seems like he'd be a generic giant grunt with no personality
>make him a generic giant grunt wth no personality
Come the fuck on.

Would you rather have heard Kevin Nash do the worst Russian accent possible?

Okay, fair is fair.

>fair is fair

Finally got around to finishing it tonight.

Jesus. The creation of Jigsaw was insanely hard to watch. I read the actor playing him couldn't even watch his stunt double on the monitor during it.

That scene alone was worth more than a head shots.

....Jesus...the scrapping sounds....

>no Baracuda
DROPPED

I wonder how Lightfoot would go about neutering Barracuda.

>Can't say nigga
He's ruined.

He's Black, so he's allowed to.
Hell, it'd be racist if they stopped him from saying it.

>cucks Matt
>cucks Micro

Do women want the Frank that badly?

Finally got around to finishing it tonight.

Jesus. The creation of Jigsaw was insanely hard to watch. I read the actor playing him couldn't even watch his stunt double on the monitor during it.

That scene alone was worth more than a thousand head shots.

....Jesus...the scrapping sounds....

That word balloon is an edit. I don't know why it's there-- Barracuda does plenty of cussing in that book, and the panel doesn't benefit from the addition.

>you hit them they get back up, I hit them and they stay down
>literally let's the man who betrayed him and took part in killing his family live cause "cause he HAS TO SUFFER"
anyone else felt like frank was pulling his punches this season

Nah, he totally can, it's just that the TV show was too busy making him an angsting pussy rather than have him waste evil motherfuckers every episode like the audience came to see.

>But Frank has had 4 tries at live action and the only one that worked was when he was a supporting character.

You take that back, Punisher: War Zone was fucking amazing.

Once he became the focus, they had to. If we get another season, I guarantee it will be Frank having another extended existential crisis before becoming what he's meant to be.

I've always found racially diverse gangs to be pretty funny. It's like they have a quota to fulfill; it's more amusing than annoying to me.

Exactly the only thing we need is him guns violence and criminals.

When they first announced this series i was really hoping it would just be an anthology with some vague connecting elements to explain what is happening episode to episode.

But its all just Frank murdering different groups of criminals and different situations.

You could put in that issue with the child porn parents to switch it up. Throw in an episode where Frank never speaks and hes just seeing from the criminals perspective as a fucking monster tearing them all apart.

Theres a lot of creative good shit you could do other than another shitty Netflix Drama wearing the skin of a Marvel property. For Daredevil it was fine but Punisher and Iron Fist have both shown the same template and format doesn't work and they need to do something different. People expect Kung Fu and Murder not shitty Drama and talking.

He'd work if they had any fucking balls and committed to what makes the character entertaining instead of delivering this half assed Jason Bourne garbage.

You could do action movies all day with him.

TV series would probably get old.

Ang Lee Hulk is great
The Incredible Hulk is a really good action movie too

lundgren punisher still the best live action version

He would work fine solo live-action.

But they pussyfooted around and added extra shit. Anything "doesn't work" when it's executed poorly, if you can't figure that out then go back to Sup Forums