This is going to be the number one argument against Trump's jobs proposal as retarded as it sounds

This is going to be the number one argument against Trump's jobs proposal as retarded as it sounds.

web.archive.org/web/20161110021756/http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-trump-biz-tech-automation-robots-jobs-20161109-story.html

Do liberals actually believe this crap? So who designs, builds, and operates these robots according to them? other robots?

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INcreasingly yes
T. Ee phd

>Do liberals actually believe this crap? So who designs, builds, and operates these robots according to them? other robots?

People with degrees

Is this true though?

>Luddites btfo the steam engine will take away all your artisan jobs

Of course not. That's why we still use the cotton gin and printing press.

Yes. it's not like jobs will plummet overnight or anything, but automation is definitely an issue that needs a solution or to be curbed somehow.

Moving labor to china is far more damaging than gradual automation

>So who designs, builds, and operates these robots according to them?
silicon valley
silicon valley
handful of educated people overseeing a large factory

Why curb it? It's a great way to make more product cheaper.

universal basic income is near trump might invent it

>admitting that automation exists
>still wanting thousands of mexicans to illegally enter the country in search of work

Even with automation where it is (mostly CNC and Robo arms, places are slowly making things like fully automated 3rd shift) outsourcing is still the big job killer.

t. Machining student

Can't wait until it starts replacing lawyers and doctors.

>It's a great way to make more product cheaper.
At the cost of employment.

Still need workers to design robots, build them, install them, program them, repair them, etc.

Jobs aren't just manufacturing. There are all kinds of jobs. But, there can be a great boon of jobs, that will support other jobs.
>Start making all car parts in the U.S
>Assemble the car in the U.S
>All those new workers will also generate service sector jobs to supply them
>Consumption will skyrocket

For example, one white collar moving to an urban area generates about 2.5-3 jobs, not just his own, because of all the service sector jobs that pop up to service them. There are many things that America can make with investment internally that we buy from abroad. Even if its only a few jobs, its still a lot of jobs if you think about the grander picture.

It would be hilarious if this turns into an arms race to drag as many industries back into the US as possible to outpace the automation, and it results in us accidentally becoming an industrial superpower again.

Holy fuck this. CNC millwrights make fucking bank too.

Don't forget maintenance.

t. A&P

1. theres no magicc shift to automation

2. trumps proposal focuses on return of companies

3. jobs will be had with infrastructure investment

4. jobs will also be had with automation

5. plebit tier argument, gtfo now

They want mexicans because it keeps wages low and cheap in service sector jobs which is what the rich love. They get servants for mere dollars an hour. The reasons why wages haven't skyrocketed even though american labor market by international standards is VERY VERY tight is because the amount of illegal workers undercutting wages.

>Do liberals actually believe this crap? So who designs, builds, and operates these robots according to them? other robots?

>So who designs, builds, and operates these robots according to them? other robots?
i have news for you, user

What is technocracy and the global elite end game.

You can't seize the means of production (people) when the means of production are robots. Depending on how far this goes the elite won't need people at all.

Illegals aren't draggin down wages. They are delaying automation, especially in the agricultural sector. Getting rid of them won't help anyone.

>Do liberals actually believe this crap?

Yes.

It's a complete non-issue but they are pushing it hard to try and get their economic "fix" in place for this totally real issue.

Their answer is socialism. That apparently fixes shit so long as you're not Russian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Venezuelan, Greek, or North Korean.

It should never be curbed you fucking luddite, people shouldn't have to work jobs we don't actually need people for.

The quicker automation kills jobs the better, because it means the quicker we will get the inevitable basic income.

>limits have to be put into law on what is allowed to be automated and the social impact it will cause.

>You can't seize the means of production (people) when the means of production are robots
On the contrary that makes the seizure even easier. Automation leads to communism. That's why it is so important.

And who is going to buy the product if everyone is unemployed?

>places are slowly making things like fully automated 3rd shift)
what do you mean by this? 3 axis? or a shift towards what you mentioned?unclear

its already better than most drs not sure they'll ever admit it though

>degree
>being a robot mechanic
doubt

Manufacturing jobs aren't the only ones at risk.

businessinsider.com/jobs-at-risk-of-being-replaced-by-robots-2015-10

>tfw you realize those machines are manufactured in Taiwan and all will be subject to a hefty tariff, the end result being its more cost effective to hire people again

Not every job can be automated. I said service sector specifically which makes up a large portion of the U.S economy.

your economic illiteracy is showing.

Why do you need a currency if everything is automated? Everything can be mass produced and free.

Mass automation is the key to working socialism, where everyone can get a set state wage
Just like how the only way you'll get working globalism is with extra terrestrial life showing up

not everything is about tribe identity children. automation DOES lead to job loss when it replaces a human, but that's not a bad thing either and that's the point a smart man (not Trump) would make.

Holding back progress so you can keep an outdated form of capitalism alive which makes people suffer?

Basic income is inevitable here, there already isn't enough jobs for the amount of people who need them. Once automation starts killing more jobs then we're either going to get basic income, or the collapse of western civilization.

the countries with the least amount of automation have the fewest jobs.

The countries with the most automation have the most jobs!

tell me more

Automation is happening anyway.

Nobody wants to mention the huge boosts that automation has been receiving recently whenever jackasses protest and demand a $15/hr minimum wage.

Those dumbasses will protest themselves right out of a job.

But somebody owns the robots, yeah? You can't seize the robots if they just kill everyone because you're useless to them now. In this future dystopic BS future they'd have robot guards and the like too. No morals.

The drones eliminate low skill, 0 education warehouse jobs.

Heavily automated assembly lines do not create nearly as many jobs as are lost to increased automation expanding to other jobs

Maintenance is a relatively high-skill job that requires an education, and most technical issues will be cheaper to simply replace rather than replace because automated factory construction methods don't lend themselves well to easily repaired modular designs.

>China will suffer the most when automation takes over.

Jobs are not an end by themselves. The end goal is creating value. If you can do that without some human doing back breaking labor for 12 hours a day, all the better. Now, it might means we need a different economic system to redistribute wealth to that displaced worker, or redistribute that labor to another area. Having robots replace jobs should still always be a net benefit to any economy.

I'm guessing 3rd shift production shift. Like working from the evening to the early morning

Not same guy.
Probably 3rd shift as in over night work.
1st shift daylight, 2nd shift evening, 3rd shift graveyard.

Obviously, but if there's no plans for UBI to be implemented (or if it's unable to, which isn't that farefetched, with socialism being essentially a boogeyman), and and there's no intervention, it would hurt us.

That's a good thing. Jobs are awful. One all work is automated capitalism will cease to exist.

u will need currency for food because the liberals have decided to use this extra capacity to breed 100 billion niggers

>automation is definitely an issue that needs a solution or to be curbed somehow.
holy fucking shit! pull your head out your ass please!

If we literally had robot slaves I think people might change their minds a bit.

>it means the quicker we will get the inevitable basic income
even in freaking star trek this didn't happen
keep dreaming

FORBID THE USE OF MACHINA

DO IT NOW

Without automation, we'd all have no jobs. We'd all be subsistence farmers, doing unpaid tasks, simply trying to survive.

Automation = higher productivity = more wealth = more jobs

You realize watson exists already right? Additionally all the boring lawyer work (i.e. shifting through thousands of documents) has already been automated.

It should, because when you have an unemployment bordering a solid 30% percent because we automated most of all manufacturing and farming jobs and there are now people with no skills that even if given skills there wouldn't be enough positions for, you'll wonder why these mobs of people are trying to murder you because you accidentally turned them all into radical fascist technophobes.

wtf why not

And why are companies that have been outsourcing labor to cut production costs and raise profits suddenly going to decide that now since they have automation they can just give their products away for free? There's no incentive for companies to operate like this, unless the government takes control, implements a basic income, and rounds everyone up into FEMA camps.

>because when you have an unemployment bordering a solid 30% percent
user...I hate to break it to you...

You either didn't read my post to the end, or you don't know what basic income is.

Unemployment isn't a problem if you have basic income (if you're too lazy to look this up, it means getting rid of the current welfare system and giving EVERYONE something like $1500-$2500 a month restriction-free).

No. This is different. Previous automation led to short term job loss with long term growth. This will just lead to loss without growth, if nothing is done.

now even Sup Forums has an excuse to go full Keynes

pay people to dig holes
pay other people to fill holes

PERFECT EMPLOYMENT

Literally all we need to do is follow Norway's example on this and create semi-skilled labor in the form of machine operators.

Its not that fucking hard people.

This desu. The longer it drags, the longer we get stuck in the classical capitalist system. It's great for now since full employment can be maintained, but it's going to be very painful if it takes, say, a whole century to snap out of it. It will create an actual underclass of low skilled workers with transient or no work at all that could reach well into the double digits.

In American manufacturing, there are 3 8-hour "shifts" in the working day. A different crew of people work each shift. Generally speaking:
1st shift -- 8am-4pm
2nd shift -- 4pm-12am
3rd shift -- 12am-8am

Those shifts can be moved an hour or two one way the another but that's basically how it goes. 3rd shift is the "graveyard shift", the late night to early morning shift. It is quite often the shift with the least amount of employees and production. 3rd shift is the least desirable shift for most people because they don't want to work the odd hours. I've worked 3rd shift before and really liked it but it does leave you with a shitty sleep schedule, that's for sure.

So rather than have a factory of 1000 people, we have 1000 people building thousands of automated factories?

How horrible.

>build, maintain, secure the wall
>everyone has jobs

The wall is a make work project, he better build it

>The Luddite fallacy

is pay good for 3rd shift

the robots will be building themselves completely soon enough

people are an outdated concept. either basic income or kill 3/4 the population

>mfw capitalism literally innovates itself out of existence via automation

Bernie could've made real change if you guys would have just given him a chance

oktym8s

Didn't we try that already?

Robots can't even build a pizza
we're good for now.

is that completely necesary to keep production constant?

generally yes. it's not just manufacturing. when i worked at fucking target as an overnight stocker they offered a $1.50 differential PER HOUR which is pretty huge since it's just more money on top of a normal wage.

Then put the automated factories in the US.
People will still have to be hired to fix them, to load trucks, to drive trucks, to ship them across seas, etc.
It may not employ as many people as line factories, but it sure as shit will give a boost in terms of jobs and the economy.

are you actually fucking stupid?

>not building massive china tier amount of auto factorys
>robot tending fulfills job needs
>america become producer of 80% of worlds goods
bring it

>to drive trucks,
>implying that you need humans to drive trucks

>People will still have to be hired to fix them, to load trucks, to drive trucks, to ship them across seas, etc.

Robots can replace truck drivers and drive a boat around the world without humans.

they can even move crates in places like rotterdam

automation will destroy all those jobs, think rust belt turned up to 11

They can if you construct them correctly

but therein lies the issue. Who wants to make a robot that can put them out of a job?

I've seen liberals on Sup Forums and libertarians constantly make this argument

The libertarians at least are ideologically consistent, but the liberals really piss me off when they demand more government to create more jobs but then say "DRUMPF CAN'T STOP THE MARCH OF TECHNOLOGY LOL"

A socialist society would literally just ban the new technology. Liberals claim to want socialism, then claim it is impossible when someone else is actually enacting pseudo-socialist policies.

Also mechanization of factory jobs isn't going to happen overnight, it will take decades before this shit is ready in full. And getting rid of illegals will cause wages for other jobs like construction to go up, providing another place for workers to find employment with their limited skills.

Liberals are so fucking dumb it hurts.

It's a good thing. Automation would never have happened this fast under a socialist system that doesn't reward innovation. Capitalism is definitely needed now, but it doesn't have to last forever.

>Who wants to make a robot that can put them out of a job?

The people paying the engineers. Robots are perfect employees

Just place a tax on machines

how great is it that THAT noxious and unrewarding job will be automated sooner rather than later.

luddites (and truckers) think it's the end of the world, but this is because luddites (and some truckers) lack philosophy.

>Shilling for automation

Go away Silicon Valley Libcucks, your candidate lost we don't need your automation, Chinese outsourcing, and Mexican illegals.

I doubt it. Say all necessities can be provided for by UBI since all labour is automated. We all get the same amount of money. But what if I write a book you want to read. You'd want to buy my book. If millions of people also want to buy my book I'm now a lot richer than everyone else. There will always be commodity.

Automation comes for all jobs, senpai. Computers are already beating radiologists at finding cancer, and that's not a bottom-end job

>working class dying
>not benefit

>trusting robots to drive cars
it will only take one bad crash to ban them, ai is no where near being able to have the judgement to drive, just stick with the 20+ year trucker veterans

It's not a problem in itself, but it will be if we sit on our asses, do nothing, and aren't ready for it.

A lot of places have what's called a "Shift Differential" where they pay 3rd shift workers a few extra dollars per hour over the other two "regular shifts".

Where I worked we didn't have actual differential pay but 3rd shift only worked 7 1/2 hours and got paid for a full 8 hours whereas 1st and 2nd shifts had to work their full 8 hours.