The Last Jedi

Why does Sup Forums defend Risn Johnson's misunderstanding of Luke Skywalker, but they immediately call out Zack Snyder's perceived misunderstandings of DC properties?

>because Sup Forums is full of mousekateers

Because SW isn't Sup Forums. Only SW comics are Sup Forums.

>perceived
Obvious snyderfag is obvious
Nothing anyone says will matter, so why should anyone take bait?

Pretend I didn't say perceived. Or don't. I'll remake this thread in a few days minus that word just to not give you an excuse to dodge the question.

Rian Johnson is a better filmmaker than Zack Snyder.

Not if TLJ is anything to go by. The plotting is a mess with at least one plot thread just being there to fill up the runtime.

Because this is an evolution of a character, rather than the adaptation of another.

TLJ is about a fall from grace of a legendary hero, who then bounces back to how he used to be at the end of the movie. Of course Luke was acting out of character.

MoS is a different take on a character rather than a continuation of a character's story. And in the case of MoS, most are of the opinion that it's a poor take.

He was literally writing Luke Skywalker though since he wrote the script. Luke is a character whose canon has really only been established in the films.
Superman has a wide history before the Snyder films. So while being Zacks own take on the character it's not the one most viewers were expecting

Although, to be fair, a lot of people really dislike this take on Luke Skywalker as well

>Of course Luke was acting out of character.
Pls explain why he sat on an island instead of righting his wrong right away, when the movie explains that his murderous impulse passed in a second flat.

He was crushed by his guilt over the temptation to kill Kylo and blamed himself for his creation. He isolated himself so that he could die as the last of the Jedi Order.

It's if you don't get it

Why not kill Snoke? Who is Snoke? How did he corrupt Jacen?

The funny thing about Snyder Supes is that it's really the Kents who are mishandled the most.

If Superman were troubled and brooding but had his dad's words of encouragement to lean on it might work. But everything Pa Kevin Costner tells Superman is fucking awful advice that makes everything worse.

2deep4me, eh Snyderfag?

>If Superman were troubled and brooding but had his dad's words of encouragement to lean on it might work.
"You ARE my son".

Please... don't make us go to Sup Forums.

All they want to do is bitch about "bugmen" and non-whites.

>Why not kill Snoke

probably considering it's not the Jedi way

>Who is Snoke

this is an entirely separate debate that has nothing to do with Luke's character

I'm personally of the opinion that killing Snoke was a surprising move, and I preferred the further development of Rey and Kylo's characters as opposed to spending exposition

>How did he corrupt Jacen

Can't tell if you're making a jab at Kylo not being a different character from the old canon

but Snoke explained that he had established a connection to Kylo during the movie

As far as how that works, well, it's the force, which is effectively magic nigga, they ain't gotta explain shit.

Look at his actual advice though. "Be afraid. Stay secret. Maybe let some people die sometimes even if you could stop it."

If you don't have a problem with how underwritten JJ's Emperor expy turned out to be, than we have nothing to discuss.
The setting now demands differentiation from the emperor, where Snoke was during the OT, how he got in Kylo's head, etc.

They're both shit.

I think that's rational advice though. Wait until you're ready, Clark. Because I love you and fear for you.

>The setting now demands

Nothing. Snoke was as much a character in the Sequel Trilogy(-to-be) as The Emperor was in the Original Trilogy when those films were first in theatres.

I don't really get what people's obsession with Snoke is

I mean, bear in mind, no one knew jack shit about the Emperor until the prequels came out

Snoke's background will probably be explained in a book or something, I don't think it's really that big of a deal that Snoke was a red herring, in fact, I think it's great

I expected him to just be a generic Palpatine rip off, which he was for the most part

Yes, and the Emperor was an original and new addition to the SW universe. Snoke was not.
It's just a plain old false equivalence.

see

Except it is not. Snoke was meant to be the Sequel Trilogy equivalent of Palpatine, sure, but he was still an original addition to the canon, even if he was underwritten. That his death came in TLJ instead of Episode 9 - and that his death came at the hands of Kylo Ren - should be seen as Rian Johnson deliberately saying "Snoke never mattered as much as you think he did, get over it". Snoke never mattered because he was never a full-fledged character. At best, he was a support beam for Kylo's character arc.

>but he was still an original addition to the canon,
But he's an Emperor clone.

I'd have to go to Sup Forums to complain about it.
And I would, since the new trilogy jerks off Rey too much and Finn might as well not be in it and Kylo is such a jobber he's not even a nominal villain, but on the other hand Sup Forums is a cesspool.

How do you know he is a clone of Palpatine? After all, the movies never said who he was. :)

really made me think

Luke tells us why. The REASON he made his mistakes was because he had started believing his own hype. After 30 years of people telling you that you're the reason Vader and the Emperor were defeated, you forget that, y'know, maybe the first instinct when confronting a brewing evil who happens to be your nephew isn't "pull your sword", it's "let's talk this out"

So he felt that going out and trying to fix the universe's problems with his bare hands would have just been more flexing of ego and made the problem worse.

That feels OOC though. Luke in RotJ had conquered all that petty stuff when he threw down his lightsaber in the throne room.
At the very most he would feel that he was getting a little high on his own supply and check himself before he wrecked himself.
Luke has regressed for the sake of JJ's McGuffin plot and nothing else. Rian tries to make sense of it, but there is no way to make sense of it. Mark Hamill himself said he had to pretend to play a different character for the movie.

I think the difference is that Palpatine was introduced back when the franchise was only a few years old and there were still many things about the lore that were a mystery, such as the Clone Wars. Snoke, on the other hand, was introduced decades later, when the lore had been greatly fleshed out, even after the EU purge. It's understandable why people want to know things like just how powerful he is compared to Palatine and how he became Supreme Leader of the First Order. If Phasma can get some backstory, why not Snoke?

this desu
No defending it.

i personally didnt like snoke for that reason, that he was just a Palpatine stand in. And the fact that he was a GCI POS (can they PLEASE stop that shit its fucking retarded)

b-buh muh real sets! m-muh practical effects!

not a literal Clone of Palpatine
but the character is a clone (copy) and not a good one. He was lame, he died like a bitch and life was good. I do not understand the buttmad about Snoke.

>conquered all that petty stuff
so its one and done or its a lifetime of control?

>He was lame
yes
>he died like a bitch
yes
>and life was good
Nope. If that much time was wasted on a nothing character in the PT, that would be enough for people to call them garbage.

see
>At the very most he would feel that he was getting a little high on his own supply and check himself before he wrecked himself.
>Luke has regressed for the sake of JJ's McGuffin plot and nothing else. Rian tries to make sense of it, but there is no way to make sense of it. Mark Hamill himself said he had to pretend to play a different character for the movie.

Both are shit

Disney bias. It's a hell of a drug.

oh man, there was enough crap in PT that we didnt have time to worry about red herring

>The plotting is a mess
So exactly like Hack Snyder.

MoS Zod, a villain with a motivation, would wipe the floor with Kylo, that spoiled brat.

So both are turds, but you will defend the one with the Disney logo? Oh well.

He's old enough that it's fair to wonder where he was when the OT was happening and the movie could have used at least a throwaway line about where he came from, especially as Luke talks about Snoke like he knew who he was when he was running his Jedi academy.

They're both godawful villains.

>especially as Luke talks about Snoke like he knew who he was when he was running his Jedi academy.
this

was he old or just well used?

"Strike me down and I'll be more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

There's your answer. Snoke wanted the same power Obi and Yoda found. We'll get force ghost sheniangans in the sequel and everybody will squee abut it's the best thing ever.

Explain if you can.

>There's your answer.
Not seeing it.
Snoke was clearly surprised that he died.

I personally dont get Kylo Ren's stupidity.

Just because you kill Billy the Kid doesnt make you Billy the Kid 2. Snoke had connections, money, resources, the loyalty of of probably thousands of millions.Additionally, all the financial information and resources of the First Order, all that shit is now LOST, gone with this motherfucker's death.

You cant just kill a galactic leader and usurp him! I mean, does Kylo even HAVE loyalty of people? Hux probably has more followers than he does!

This is fucking stupid.

just turn you're brian off

>You cant just kill a galactic leader and usurp him! I mean, does Kylo even HAVE loyalty of people? Hux probably has more followers than he does!
it seems intentional to me
might play into episode IX to me, lukes sacrifice will inspire the galaxy and turn the 30 men they have at the end into 300,000

while the lack of respect kylo has, and the pwoer struggle with hux, will crack the first order and make them vulnerable to the resistance 2.0

>annoying angry moron who yells alot and accomplishes nothing
Describes both of your shitty villains, now fuck off. So sick of this retarded board pretending that Zod is some amazing villain.

>it seems intentional to me
None of this seems intentional. Rian just threw monkey wrench after monkey wrench in JJ's plot plans because TFA was shit. But now JJ is coming back.

What was Kylo's motivation other than PLOT?

You're both right.

>shit on both villains
>some retard instantly assumes I defend one of them
This is why I hate to argue with people on this board.

>Mark Hamill himself said he had to pretend to play a different character for the movie.

Fuck I feel bad for him.

We saw the Emp tempting Luke and going for the long con througout the movies. Darth was just a side-character with the function of messing with Luke.

The new one is different in that Ben and Rey both share the weight of being the main characters, so the Snoke-Ben relation is more important. While the stuff with Ben and Snoke unwittingly declaring his own death were all cool, it would have greatly benefited from more exposition in the previous film for added weight here.

Pretty much this. There could have been some tiny bit of exposition.
Then again, it probably would have been as dumb as what happened to the New Republic.

So you're saying it's shit either way? I agree, TFA was a stillbirth.

Nice meltdown, Sup Forums.

>hates being assfucked
>keeps coming back for more
Oh well.

Another problem is that I dont believe how few Jedi students Luke has trained.

How many years does it take to train a Jedi?

Fucking Luke was a full knight within less than 5 years, Luke should have already trained two generations of Jedi by the time Ben was ready to begin training.

This is more stupid shit.

I don't understand why people are upset with Snokes lack of story. The emperor had six movies and didn't explain shit

If anything, tards who defend Kylo Ren and Zod are Sup Forums
Works for your mom.

>might play into episode IX
I thought the same about VII to VIII, but all I got was some weird ESB rehash where the director was obsessed with subverting the audiences expectations.

What is this, a Sup Forums thread away from their special needs board?

really made me think

good job leading by example

Luke got a crash course in the Force, beat up his crippled dad, and got savaged by an old man. Then he went off to find some old Jedi books so he could actually read up on this stuff. Probably took a while before he felt like taking on students.

yu think I spelt that rong by aksident do not yuo!

I don't understand why people pretend Palpatine was a good villain and not a boring cackling one-dimensional dummy with no actual menace or charisma.

I'm just glad the OT heroes are gone and the mouse can't fuck them anymore

TFA was awful, even the prequels at least had some originality.

Meant for

Also, the entire reason Luke's dad got crippled (and turned evil, and committed any number of atrocities) is someone trained him without really knowing what they were doing, so maybe, just maybe, Luke was a little gun-shy.

i liked it.
am i a bad person?

The painful part here is that I actually liked Justice League (especially the Superman parts) and TLJ pretty much killed the last spark of interest I had in the franchise (because of what it did to Luke, and the setting as a whole), yet the former bombed and might mean no course-corrected MoS2 and the latter is still going to make all the money in the world. Shit isn't fair.

>so maybe, just maybe, Luke was a little gun-shy.
This isn't the case though. he took a dozen students and it only went to shit when he got a spot a' bloodlust.

No, just intellectually lazy. You've subconsciously weighed the effort of developing your own taste over the comfort of going with the flow and you have chosen wrong.

Probably ahead of schedule.

really makes you think

Fucks sake

At the very least, we know he was the next in a long line of Sith Lords and worked to conquer the galactic government both from the inside and the outside. We know nothing about how Snoke rose to power.

>at least one plot thread just being there to fill up the runtime.
Which one?

The one where I name it and you tell me why i'm wrong.

>Please... don't make us go to Sup Forums.
All things considered, it'd serve you right.

He said it. One old guy with laser cutlery can't fight an army.

wat

You want a character to be the same at 20 and 50 years old. Nobody is like that. People live a life, get new experiences, some positive, some not. People change.

Behind everything Luke does, there's always the motivation of doing good. When Rey finds him, he thinks that the jedis and sith's appropriation of the force, a natural "element", results in awful events. Hence why he cut himself from the force and society.

pompous much?

But still, waiting that long?
The amount of time that went by he could have been into his second generation of new Jedi if, let's say he waited ten years.
But no, that would mean there'd actually progress in the story. Can't have that.

The darkside isnt fucking chicken pocks

You dont get iver it once and your immune for life