Is he right?

Is he right?

Iceman's still gay so he's wrong.

FPBP

He is right.

Hank Pym will never be more than the guy that beat his wife and drove her to sleep with all his friends to seek comfort.

A violent cuck.

>Kitty
>Cap
>Batman
>Spiderman
>Countless others

WRONG

OMD seems to disagree, and this is coming from someone who hates spider mans popularity, doesnt read his comics, and only likes the raimi films.

shut up Slott

>Wanda's been shit ever since House of M
>Jean Grey is coming back for a 7th time
>Ben Riley came back after 2 decades of being written off, only to have his character assassinated
>Bobby is still gay
>Kitty is a GotG whore now
>One More Day, which threw out everything from the 80's onwards and still won't be fixed
>Norman fucking Gwen Stacy
>OG Captain Marvel didn't stay dead
>Ultimate universe is back

Hank Pym got off easy with writers taking that backhand out of context.

Depends, is Ted Kord still dead? I haven't been paying attention.

Slott is a huge Pymfag. He know what he's saying

Hes right in that Pym is fucked, but Pym being fucked isnt because of that one storyline. Its because of hack writers who keep bringing it up over and over because that and Ultron are literally the only things they know about the character. Its not one arc or one run, its decades of harping on about it and turning it in the single character-defining moment.

THE FUCKING DEVIL

Last I checked, Carol still hasn't recovered from giving birth to her mind-control rapist, no matter how much editorial would like to pretend otherwise.

>that and Ultron
And Ultron isn't even his anymore in many people's eyes, thanks to the movie.

No, he appeared in the Rebirth Blue Beetle book mentoring Jamie. Unfortunately the book was very meh and one of the weakest Rebirth titles.

I think he's wrong on both counts. Pym isn't fucked and the mainstream would only know about slapping his wife if (when if we're being honest) Jezebel or some shit raises a stink and he himself has done a decent job fucking the entire spider-man universe.

he's been alive since forever evil in 2013

Anyone have that panel where he has a swarm of ants trying to kill Wasp like some supervillain?

100% wrong

How the fuck you "fix" a decade long run? Recton?Bitch please you will fuck the entire story this way, Ignore? Then the story will get ridiculous,Character development? That's really limited and some things can't be simply changed that way without getting extremely forced making things even worse.

Always assume that if Slott's mouth is moving, bullshit is coming out.

That's from Ultimates. He gets a pass there; except for Tony and Peter everyone's a dick in the Ultimate Universe.

>Hank Pym is fucked.

What is Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes and the MCU.

who did she sleep with?

Hawkeye is one of them

>EMH
Correct

>MCU
Kill yourself

Cass has been used well in Detective Comics but still hasn't recovered from the Robin OYL story.

Also the Exiles are dead thanks to Claremont.

No. There are some stories that permanently become part of the character, and can't be removed so easily. Once you make a character gay, you cannot make them "ungay".

If you write a character to become a murder like Maxwell Lord and Superboy Prime , you can't suddenly ignore that aspect about them.

That is because the public and many writers have basically adopted those stories to become the status quo for the character.

What, yes she has. I'm pretty sure that story isn't canon anymore since the nu52. I'd count a FULL recover as having her history as Batgirl restored, but I'll take what I csn get.

If the Avengers Academy game is anything to go by, anything with two legs.

>>Jean Grey is coming back for a 7th time
2nd

this will be the 2nd time Jean has come back.

Slott and Gage tried, but it didn't stick. I doubt it ever will.

No, he's wrong. House of M fucked Wanda, OMD fucked Spider-Man, and Norman fucked Gwen. Yeah, these characters can always be rebooted, but this is Marvel we're talking about. Plus in a lot of cases once the character has been fucked, either the writer stays and continues to fuck them up, or a writer who never cared for them comes along and constantly references how fucked they are. These characters rarely develo, and when a writer gives a shit and actually allows them to grow, the higher ups send someone to change it because they want "a new spin on things while going back to their roots"

Dan hasn’t been right in over 15 years

>House of M fucked Wanda, OMD fucked Spider-Man, and Norman fucked Gwen.
>Norman fucked Gwen.
kek

With popular characters, everyone has a different view on them. What may look like a good period or direction to you may seem like a bad one to someone else. For example, Marvel wants to push teeny bopper Spidey. That appeals to certain fans, but not everyone. Slott really should stop viewing everything in a black and white mindset.

For now, at least.

WW went from bdsm fetish to the #1 female superhero role model for girls.
Any character can be fixed

My waifu has been ruined two times and she's still my waifu. And many other people still like her too.
So yeah, he's not wrong.

Hank Pym faggotry aside, I agree, yeah.
That's not an excuse to write shitty stories though, especially when you stay on a character for like 15 years.

Cap & Thor aren't. Hawkeye wasn't before his family was killed.

>Hank Pym will never be more than the guy that beat his wife

Literally only because they will never stop beating that dead horse. Hank Pym's eternal sin SHOULD be the creation of Ultron, because it actually fucking matters and has had sweeping ramifications throughout the entire Marvel universe, unlike his knocking Janet away whilst in the throes of a complete psychological breakdown that she was partially to blame for. Other characters have done worse under similar circumstances and nobody ever gives them shit for it.

>Also the Exiles are dead thanks to Claremont.

I am so fucking mad how Exiles was ruined and just forgotten about. 100 fucking issues, and it tanked cause Claremont just had to make it the Psylocke, Rogue, Kitty Pryde text blocks that can fill a novel shitty book.

GOD DAMN I AM MAD!!!

Not really. Spider-Man's appeal is gradually seeing him develop and change through the times and authors. When he's derailed heavily enough and that trust of perpetual forward momentum is shattered, that facet of the character can never be recovered.

Let's say you wake up tomorrow and Marvel announces a shakeup. ASM is reverting to its mid 00s status quo. While you might like this change, it doesn't undo the decade of the curtain being pulled back while the man behind the screen is exposed. It doesn't matter that Peter is married again: you know Marvel was willing to completely destroy the integrity of the character to market him as single. There's no going back. Instead your draw is "aside from a decade, Peter's story was constantly progressing." You can't trust the book any more. Any strain in his relationship will look like another attempt to push a marketing-based status quo and every story that doesn't keep his life moving forward will look like stalling.

Things that "ruin" characters on a fundamental level only have four paths of continued, quality publication. They ignore the previous event, creating that cognitive gap and distrust mentioned before; they forge a new path using these developments, changing the inherent appeal of the character; they refresh comtinuity, which is essentially a bandaid so you can keep making unfinished, broken stories forever; they cast comtinuity aside and make their own apocrypha. You'll notice most of the better cape comics are essentially Superhero Apocrypha for this reason.

The conscious narrative heading towards a conclusion is regularly molested by these companies and their need to make characters as marketable and long lasting as possible. So yeah, you can absolutely "ruin" a character, but most superhero fiction is written with the expectation that this will happen. It only matters for characters like Spider-Man, who's appeal was largely in having a functional ongoing narrative, shoddy as it was.

>except hank pym. he's fucked
this will never not be hilarious that hank pym is hated not because he made a genocidal apocalypse-tier supervillain, but because he in a mental breakdown accidentally slapped his wife (who i'm told personally contributed to his breakdown, but I didn't read that run so I can't say for certain) in a single panel that the writer later said the artist drew more violently than he intended.

It's so fucking absurd. The Illuminati deliberately kill an entire dimension to save their own, but Hank has a human moment of error and it's SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS WE'LL NEVER FORGIVE YOU


Does it just hit too close to home? Is it some kind of refuge in audacity thing where kliling a dimension is too absurd to take seriously but accidentally hitting your wife is a personal thing people can relate to?

Comic books, everyone

you mean ruined.

He is right in that I doubt any writer will come along and fix Hank. But his first comment is more correct in that Hank *could* be fixed if someone would simply step up and do so.

I'm still baffled why the had the out of Secret Invasion and didn't use it to fix Hank. And not just didn't use it, they hadda go out of their way to avoid using the fix.

(at least some of the reason he hasn't been fixed is that these white knights dont want to fix an example of what they can hold up as a problematic white male sexual assaulter.

is he warning us about the shit he plans to do on his last run?

In the case of Pete it's probably because there are hundreds of more iconic moments for casuals to focus on. Except for regular comic readers all Pym has the Jan slap and creating Ultron (if even that).

there are single runs that destroy entire franchises of characters:
see:
Johns Green Lantern
Snyder's Batman
Bendis Avengers (even though Avengers was always shit)

>Hundreds of iconic moments
Then why do they keep recycling the same ~6?

>It's ok to fuck shit up, the younger generations will fix it!

fucking
boomers.

Wasn't the book *already* cancelled?

Resurrecting a dead/abandoned title to give it to a writer as a vanity project... is it really rape when its a corpse?

Fine whatever 6, that's still a lot more and with a lot more visibility than Hank's.

The entirety of current DC disproves this.

Shooter tried to retcon the slap as accidental:

"have accidentally struck Jan while throwing his hands up in despair and frustration—making a sort of 'get away from me' gesture while not looking at her."

Now, if you go read all of Avengers #213 that doesn't make any sense in the context of the entire issue. At no point does Hank show any regret for giving Janet a black eye, not immediately after the hit, not later on. He hit her and showed zero remorse for it. Shooter's attempt at re-writing what was on the page does not float.

Having said that, what was also on the page was a man with a proven history of mental issues that he constructed the identity of Yellowjacket in order to escape his Hank Pym persona. This is some soap opera levels of insanity here, Hank had undergone a complete breakdown. If he'd got help and therapy I don't see a need for stable-Hank to be held accountable for the crimes of crazy-Hank, esp not in a comicbook world where such shenanigans occur commonly, with body swaps and red kryptonite and pyscho-rays. One doesnt need to pretend he didnt hint Janet - he did, while batshit insane, just treat the mental illness and move on.

But it wont ever go away because self-hating white male writers want that cross around their own necks.

>>Jean Grey is coming back for a 7th time
Imagine being this casual.

>the time she came back as phoenix
>O5 jean
>this time
That's three and I don't even follow X-men, ya dingus.

>WW went from bdsm fetish to the #1 female superhero role model for girls.
You're saying WW is either a bdsm fetish character or a female superhero role model.
I'm saying she's both.

I'd also include Johns Flash Rebirth, and Decimation ruining X-men.

Superboy has been fucking terrible since Johns touched him

Dan, I give you every chance in the world and yet you continue to insist on being an obstinate prick.

I still don't know why they haven't retconned that.
At least some people in there seem to think OMD was a good day, has anyone tried to defend Sins Past?

>These characters were born before you and you'll die before them
Not sure about that looking at the sales of this industry. Casuals can complain that characters die too often, but I'll be killing every Marvel character that ever lived with my wallet.

It’s actually really easy to fix Hank Pym. Just stop bringing up the slap. Peter Parker and Reed Richards among others have both beaten their wives, and no one remembers. Why? Because it happened once and was never brought up again.

Just stop. Or better yet, swallow your pride and finally do a legit universe reboot, Marvel.

he's not wrong but people should really stop being characterfags if all they're ever gonna do is bitch.

either vote with your wallet or shut up.

>OMD fucked Spider-Man
in comics? sure RYV is pretty much the closest we'll get to marvel admitting that OMD was a mistake.

outside of comics? not really most non-comic media pretty much keeps him as a teenager forever.

hes old, but douglas does a fantastic job at getting the spirit of pym right.

honestly what would help pym is for him not be a doormat when people come at him.

stark starts talking that shit? bring up the crossing, civil war, or tony being a drunk

carol wants to be lippy? bring up civil war 2 or her being a drunk

janet wants to open her mouth to shit talk him again? bring up the fact that she intentionally married a man going through mental issues and she didnt care about the effect it would have on him, and that hes done playing victim

part of the problem with pym is that he lets bitches shit talk him and he doesnt give back...unless its norman osborn

I wonder if Icegay's story was written well, would Sup Forums complain as much, little less or maybe more.

Underrated post

One of the best things about West Coast Avengers was him carrying around a bunch of miniaturized shit that he could grow for any occasion. It was like Batman's camp utility belt cranked up to 11.

The ability to grow and shrink stuff at will is one of those powers that is potentially balance breaking if used wisely. Bad guys hiding out in a condemned building? Shrink the support columns. Bad guy points a handgun at you? Make the gun grow to the size and weight of a car, pinning his arm underneath it. Throw a pebble and enlarge it to boulder size the instant it leaves your hand. Shrink a bad guy's armor while they're wearing it (just enough to incapacitate them).

When did Mar-Vell come back?

Iceman isn't a main X-Men, he is even worst than Beast, the old X-Men that worth are Angel, Jean, Cyclops Polaris, Wanda and Xavier, and Quicksilver maybe ... the problem with Iceman is that all his new stories revolving around how gay he is, and that's not a superhero history, you maybe can sell that in Archie Comics idk

He's completely wrong.

>Iceman isn't a main X-Man

Idiocy.

Can you name something that worth from Iceman or Beast? Colossus, Storm, Wolverine, Cable, Rogue, Kitty Pride Frost or even Fantomex are more relevant

I agree that Iceman has been mostly irrelevant, but Beast is a major player in the X-Books since the Morrison era, mostly as a foil to Scott.

I know they'll reverse Bobby eventually. I botched about it because the dialogue was horrible.

Nah, they won't, the backlash would be intense if they dared to retcon a character's homosexuality. In the meantime, Northstar is still in limbo ever since that chinawoman hack married him to a random human.

Wow, you've been out of the loop for four years

But he wrote an amazing Hank Pym...

>Morrison
I've just started that and he's in coma or something ... is good? i just read e is for extintion and germ free generation

Everything up to Riot at Xavier's is usually considered great (and rightly so IMO). I like Planet X a lot but a lot of fans have a gripe with twist (that was switlfy retconned so I don't mind it that much). The arc drawn by Bachalo is boring and Here Comes Tomorrow is confusing but I kinda like it, depends on how much you tolerate Morrison weirdness, really.

Sadly yes.
But any true Pymfag won't stop that from doing everything in their power to make Hank's life marginally better.

Imagine having this bad taste.

I'll never understand the writer hateboner for Hank, and by extension Janet. Hank isn't a wife beater, and he'll never escape it because they don't know what to do with him. Kind of have to laugh at Stark of all people calling Pymtron a shitty person

>emh
a canceled show

An AWESOME cancelled show that deserves a revival.

no they relaunched it as NEW EXILES because he was taking over and they wanted to publize that. which basically fucked the book over and when he left and they RELAUNCHED VOLUME 3 BY JEFF PARKER TWO MONTHS LATER THEY FUCKING KILLED IT CAUSE CLAIRMONT FUCKING TAINTED IT.

This.
The gay bell can't be un-rung in the current political climate and there are already characters that can do the gay mutant shtick better than Iceman. Namely Northstar. Expect Iceman to be shunt into either token queer background character or outright limbo.

>defending the worst creation format for fiction in the history of fiction
He's wrong.

>Johns Green Lantern
What

Pymtron is based

ultimate universe is back?

Hank needs a therapist gf

he was a major player far before that. He was part of The Avengers and I think he was part of The Defenders too

This is why Pymtron is the best timeline.

He's better off this way.

I think the point he's trying to make is that now the majority of the villains the Green Lanterns fight now are other Lanterns.

Yes, but I was talking strictly about his role the X-books, in which he wasn't really important since the O5 era.

Gay iceman
Wife beater pym
Negro spidey

Hal hasn't gone against a non lantern in more then a fucking decade. Even when an old villain is brought back or a seemingly new villain has nothing to do with the fucking rainbow brigade, SURPRISE, yes he does.

this is just another example of why I stopped reading capeshit