Alright, boys, I'm gonna make a huge mistake here and ask for some legit political discourse for a moment.
I'm a liberal, and I imagine that's already a strike against me here, but I'm an American citizen, too. And I'm feeling more than a little uneasy about this whole Trump thing. I vehemently opposed him, myself, but it looks like that doesn't mean much anymore.
The Republican platform seems destructive to me. Repealing Obamacare would be acceptable if they had something better to replace it, but it doesn't seem like they do. Rolling back LGBT rights doesn't sound like it would help the nation in any way at all. Hell, Pence is a Dominionist theocrat. Isn't that anathema to the sort of small-government liberty-loving ideals you guys espouse? And don't get me started on the Wall. It's a logistical nightmare, and I can't think of any way Trump could make it work as intended.
It all seems like things are about to go downhill from here, and I won't lie, I'm a bit frightened.
Give me some reasons why I shouldn't worry, Sup Forumsacks. How do you guys know this isn't a disaster in the making?
Are you mentally retarded? First of all, you already had health insurence before obamacare, it would simply switch back to that and be streamline presumably.
Nobody gives a shit about what you do with your genitals, but when you are molesting kids in the open and calling it empowerment then it's a bit much. Kids shouldn't be able to decide their gender until they are 16. If you don't agree than we might as well give little kids guns and drivers licenses.
Pence, bla bla bla, muh bullshit.
>don't get me started on the wall
There is already a wall you dumb fucking cunt. Trump wants to reinforce the existing wall and penalize border jumpers, which is already supposed to happen. Obama is not enforcing immigration laws that already exist.
Infact obama promised to build a wall while he was running the second time, guess you missed that since you are dumb.
Liberal is basically code-word for "I have no fucking situational awareness" isn't it?
Ryder Hernandez
I'm just worried about his pro-life stance and possible policies to reflect it.
Camden Gray
Gosh, this looks exactly like a CTR slide thread from four months ago.
Cooper Richardson
Well I certainly like to think I'm not retarded.
Anywho. Not sure where the thing about kids came from.
The thing about Mike Pence is a legitimate concern. What if Trump ends up impeached and Pence takes the presidency?
Now the stuff about the wall, I'll admit I'm not as informed about our current border situation as I'd like to be, but hasn't the Obama administration conducted record numbers of deportations?
Never heard of a promise about a wall from Obama, myself. Citation would be appreciated.
That's a problem, too. Restricting or banning abortion isn't a good idea in the slightest.
The hell would I want to slide for? The election's over, you guys won.
Michael Barnes
I'd like to think there's substance to the plan here, and not just bumper sticker slogans.
Carter Thomas
You seem new, so I'm going to give you some pointers
sometimes if you bump yourself, the thing ends up falling back a good 5 pages or something. Try to avoid posting unless nobody posts for more than 10 minutes.
There is no such thing as 'auto-sage'd', as sage refers to the post count going down by one. If there are no posts, then it wouldn't, or couldn't be saged.
second off, if you're expecting a serious conversation from a board where people get a kick out of hacking famous people's linkedln accounts just to make them say "heil hitler," you might not be too impressed. Though, I would keep trying as threads flow through here constantly. So long as you're not spamming the threads, I would suggest making one twice in order for it to really be seen, as otherwise it'll get drowned immediately underneath the next hundred that appear after it.
Eli Morris
>not sure what the thing about kids came from
Oh yea, it's not like there isn't a tv show about some 8 year old tranny in your country. And a cartoon that was about a tranny on nikolodian.
>Socialized Healthcare Essentially, Trump's plan as he stated is to remove barriers to market that the insurance and medical industries have placed to raise the price of medicine.
The huge issue with Obamacare is that it didn't fundamentally address any of the reasons for the high price of healthcare, but rather just added money to the pool inflating the general price of healthcare and forcing persons to buy it.
>LGBT Marriage Let me put this bluntly, marriage is not a right expressed in the constitution. Thus it is the right of each state to decide how it handles marriage as implicit in the 10th Amendment.
>BUT IT'S FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS! It doesn't matter. It is not the jurisdiction of the federal government. Thus it is pro small government to want local governments to decide local laws.
>LGBT anti discrimination laws Anti discrimination laws are inherently ineffective in the sense that people will hire those they see fit rather, and if it is because they're white, male, straight, whatever, then so be it. It's extremely hard to prove otherwise that they didn't pick for another quality.
Likewise, they're also rather fundamentally unsound. To force people to serve, employ, or house people they do not want to is likely to have an impact on quality while also causing complications for the market for non-discriminatory services. Stonewall Inn didn't become a gay bar because it's owner was political, it became a gay bar because gays were willing to pay money to drink at this bar.
>Wall BUILD WALL.
Honestly, I think you're just a retarded cuck that eats propaganda all day.
Kayden Perez
leave cuck, you are not ready for this.
Jacob Perry
Thanks. I generally avoid this place, but I figured now that the dust has settled a bit, I could get some rationale out of folks.
Again, Christian Dominionism doesn't seem like a rational path to take, and Mike Pence is an advocate of that.
Well, you started strong, but you lost me around the second half. In an ideal economy, people will hire based on fitness for the job, sure. But this isn't an ideal economy, and history has shown that plenty of employers will irrationally discriminate if allowed to. And in certain places, that won't hurt them all that much while it does hurt LGBT folks. And then after that you sorta lost coherence.
Good post, upvoted.
Joseph Ortiz
A lot of that is just campaign rhetoric. I voted for Trump in hopes that he does extremely crack down on illegal immigration, and puts keeping our nation safe first. I also think having standards and values like valuing human life is a good thing too, unless, obviously, under certain circumstances. Nothing will happen to LGBT rights no one cares.
Eli Ramirez
People should be able to worship anything they choose unless it interfers with their job or ability to perform that job. Christian Dominionism? So in other words you think pence will institute christian laws? You mean like the ten commandments which are the basis for most of the legal system?
The fact you weren't worried before trump got elected and somehow thought progressivism was the future really boggles my fucking mind. Look at your own camp, it's full of low income retarded COMMUNISTS and ANARCHISTS who don't believe in anything.
neihilism and athism lead to self destruction because you realize there is no point to anything because you will die and be forgotten. It's fucking cancer for the mind.
Kayden Brown
Don't worry. When the dollar inevitably fails and the Republicans get blamed for it, you'll have the uniparty corporate shithole of your dreams.
Colton Peterson
Looks like you had an aneurysm there, buddy. Should I call a doctor?
Robert Watson
Are you out of arguments?
It's amazing, I am a foreigner telling you how your system works. It's like your brain is empty.
Western values are based around the ten commandments.
Angel Smith
It's very clear you drank every ounce of the xtian Flavor-Aid, so there's really no argument to be had here. Anything I say goes up against a barrier of faith impenetrable by reason.
Easton Stewart
Oh totally dude, I'm so sure that christians didn't build both our countries.
I'm not even christian, I'm pagan.
Blake Nelson
The faithful execution of revenge is one of the primary reasons we, the Republicans, exist.
Aiden Ramirez
>Repealing Obamacare would be acceptable if they had something better to replace it thats the plan
>Rolling back LGBT rights trump is for the states choice for gay marriage pence is for gay conversion therapy so watch out
>the Wall >logistical nightmare we are going to build the wall and mexico is going to pay for it
Most of the protestors right now are out there because they didn't take the loss and still feel entitled to the win the media promised them. People say trump hates them but the only people he hit were people that hit him first. They want as many people as possible to feel like victims so they can get their way, think of it like BLM protestors. People are saying the real reason he won is because of the hateful rhetoric on the left. Calling people racist, misogynistic, homophobic just because you differ from them politically and being ironically hateful in general does not attract positive people.
Noah Morales
Why are you so mad tho
Landon Stewart
which barriers are we talking about? are we talking about the ones in place pre ACA, which one might claim were responsible for the double digit annual increases in cost of insurance?
despite insurance companies being able to deny coverage to whoever they liked, impose lifetime maximum payment limits, and were in the habit of denying claims submitted by people who had been writing checks to them for years on the pretext of "preexisting conditions"?
Luis Diaz
>hasn't the Obama administration conducted record numbers of deportations? It's possible, but I live on the border, and when Prez Obama gave that speech promising not to deport children we had insane amounts of unaccompanied children flooding up from all over south america for months. He actually had to give another speech walking back his remarks to stem the tide.
Jordan Johnson
>In an ideal economy, people will hire based on fitness for the job, sure. But this isn't an ideal economy, and history has shown that plenty of employers will irrationally discriminate if allowed to.
Then let them discriminate. If you are discriminating against clientele for whatever reason other businesses can revolve their businesses around that clientele. Likewise, it also creates new opportunities for others to enter the industry. In this thought as well, you fully have the right to not patron businesses that are discriminatory as much as they have the right to not serve you.
As for labor, if people refuse to hire labor for reasons unrelated to the quality of labor, it deflates the price of that labor by artificially increasing the supply of labor that would otherwise be utilized. Therefore, businesses would hire this labor as they can get the same quality of labor for a lower price. Which would then turn around and increase the value of this labor.
TL:DR; Anti-discrimination laws are not only stupid, but work actively against market factors.
Matthew Ward
There is. Did you not read the articles of what he said he would do in the first 100 days?
On immigration: Obama just had built this huge concentration like camp for people crossing over, to help process them. They decided on the prison to be paid for not by how many people are in there, but a set rate. They want to keep people in there indefintly to fuel this corporation. Strengthening our border must be done. Hopefully he will make it easier for people with family already here, or people worthy of citizenship, to obtain a green card. Deportations would either remain the same, or go up due to increased spending on the border. It sucks, but what has been going on the last few years is not working
I don't think hes going to ban abortions. He doesn't want taxpayer money going towards that. I don't want my tax money going to dumbass trans who want free hormones and surgery either. I was born with one hand, and I don't get fucking free prosthetics THAT SERVE A FUNCTION. Fuck those freeloading fags. anyway
What else?
He just came out with a new healthcare system. Lost the link but im sure you can google it. worth a read.
Brayden Martin
I've seen multiple suggestions as to how we'd make Mexico "pay for it", and none of them work out. I think this is one point Trump's gonna have to abandon.
Okay, that's mildly humorous.
Jaxon Carter
>are we talking about the ones in place pre ACA, which one might claim were responsible for the double digit annual increases in cost of insurance (premiums at that time)?
>despite insurance companies being able to deny coverage to whoever they liked, impose lifetime maximum payment limits, and indulge their habit of denying claims submitted by people who had been writing checks to them for years on the pretext of "preexisting conditions"?
cleaned up a lil, i'm drunk
Aiden Barnes
I'm not he is just an empty headed retard. He needs to realize that.
Bentley Hughes
Wait...
They're actually going to roll-back LGBT rights?
That's disgusting, and I couldn't happily laugh in the faces of liberals if that were to happen.
Jaxson Wright
>Rolling back LGBT rights Which isn't happening and was never a part of anyone's platform, you low information bait poster. Trump used his ol' "leave it up to the states" when asked about gay marriage, sure, but in reality could never overturn the supreme court decision on something like that, not that calling it marriage really matters in the first place because we already have civil unions (which hillary was against in 2008). Our first priorities are getting those tariffs on foreign goods approved and slapping an exit tax on companies trying to leave.
Joshua Nguyen
Mexico is already setting aside money for it. (You) are the one who will have to abandon the idea it's not going to happen.
Colton Lee
Here is some talking points I saved. Trump truly is not as bad of a person as people assume. It does, however, take some digging to find. The mass media has done very well to slander his character
On gay marrige, It's understandable that gays want to get married, and it is a government problem because marriage changes things like taxes and shit. If he was true to his word, people should live however they want, and this should be included. Should it be called marriage? No; it's not a religious aspect. Will Trump actually follow his own philosophy? We will see.
Nicholas Walker
Source? Last I heard, Mexico told us to fuck off.
Ayden Wilson
hell, even with the ACA, pharm companies got into the habit of eating each other, shutting down profitable factories then pointing at the production bottlenecks they created in order to justify jacking up the cost of medication by an order of magnitude or more
Blake Rogers
Uh, as far as I was aware our values are based on Christian morality, but our actual legal system is built off something written during the Byzantine Empire's peak - I could be wrong, however.
Juan Baker
Your problem is you only know Trump from what the (((media))) has told you. If you took the time to investigate yourself what his policies actually are you wouldn't be asking these questions.
Liberals used to never trust the media, and they actually used to protest globalists like the Seattle WTO protest. Look at your 'liberal' movement right now. Pro globalist, pro media. Abandon ship
Carter Watson
semantics, you know what I meant.
Believing in nothing isn't a belief, religion staves off existential crisis and anxiety which is GOOD because it makes people more productive.
I agree with you but I really wasn't sure because you made two separate points and I was confused.
Anthony Evans
Anything other than Dead Bort?
Cameron Rivera
Hiding our heads in the sand isn't going to help us moving forward as a civilization.
Religion got us as far as it needed to. We don't need it anymore, but it's hard to let go of.
Caleb Hall
meanwhile, just about every other country on planet earth had figured out a way to provide medication and care to all their citizens at often half the cost per capita and about 90+% the performance of what the USs profit driven model was able to provide (to those who could afford it)
the argument that the US was subsidizing the pharmacological needs of every other health care system in the west kinda falls flat when you consider that pharm companies were spending 3-5 times as much on marketing as they were on (often government subsidized) RnD, almost all of this in the form of DTC advertisement in like the two countries on planet earth dumb enough to allow DTC marketing
> How do you guys know this isn't a disaster in the making
i don't
Wyatt Walker
Sorry I am not too articulated I will admit. But you have to be blind not to see why atheism and nihilism just leads to depression.
Also liberals are basically a catch-all phrase for extreme ideologies, then they turn around and call conservatives retarded. Did you see how triggered he got when he thought I was christian. Immediately attacked Christianity while ignoring Islam and Buddhism.
Asian religions are awful because they basically teach you that you should submit to people who are holier than you. The dalhi lama has slaves and murders dissenters. In india they teach you that if your born into a certain family then you are born into a certain class, most of those classes are low classes such as the untouchables.
Christianity is pretty much harmless when it comes to a belief system. But this guy is just regurgitating whatever the t.v. taught him.
As a foot note, the symptoms of existential crisis are quite serious, it's like 5 mental illnesses rolled into one.
Joseph James
> Rolling back LGBT rights doesn't sound like it would help the nation in any way at all.
That's where you're wrong kiddo, legitimising self destructive behaviours and mental disorders as "lifestyle choices of equivalent value to living in a healthy male-led nuclear family" is the MAIN reason the nation's youth is going down the tubes.
Anti-degeneracy is the most important long-term fight. Not much point keeping out shitty thriftless drugged-up Mexicans if the white youth turn shitty thriftless and drugged-up themselves.
William Miller
you're asking for explanations, then when you get explanations, you call it incoherent.
the reason i'm not going to shitpost at you right now is because i assume you're telling the truth and you're a liberal, not a concern troll, and i also understand how hard it is to come to terms with the fact that a lot of the shit you just assume to be factual is, in fact, just rhetorical garbage.
i advise you, if you care enough about politics, to hang around and lurk in the higher quality threads. the election is over, so the salt miners are gone, and the shitposting will go back to intermittent black dick threads, but the discourse quality will improve.
i forewarn you, though, going from a liberal who just comes here to argue with idiot conservatives, to a conservative yourself through the sheer amount of times you get your arguments rekt is not a pleasant process. you will see how little LGBT shit matters in the grand scheme, you will have to stomach hard truths about statistical analysis of demographics, and you will eventually feel burning anger for the glossing over of uncomfortable truths by liberals you once considered smart people.
it hurts, and you will not like it.
Juan Taylor
read this Also look up what existential crisis means. Hording as much money and getting as much pleasure out of life isn't conducive, it leads to poor impulse control and weak will.
Sebastian Baker
I remember going through my atheist phase too. Don't worry. You'll get peace when you realize what a bulwark Christianity is to madness. Ily user.
Daniel Nelson
listen up you low IQ goofball
Pence was put in place as insurance so simple minded lefties wouldn't try to assassinate him.
You assassinate Trump, who is ultimately a moderate business man who speaks openly about his opinions- you get stuck with someone far more radical than anyone wants. It was a deliberate and strategic move.
Obamacare is retarded, don't even pretend like any of it is good. Even Michael Moore thinks it's terrible.
As for the wall, Trump will keep true to his word by having Mexicans pay for it- meaning he'll go to a few Home Depots and hire a few thousand Mexican dayworkers, thus finishing the wall AHEAD OF SCHEDULE and UNDER BUDGET. Paying in cash and cutting out government middlemen is literally all it takes.
Government programs deliberately over-inflate their staffs and take as long as possible to run up the bill. That shit is going to end.
Anyway, those 3 things refute your entire post.
Ryan Rogers
I voted for Trump after I saw disastrous globalist policies taking place in Europe. Sometimes my friend, things that sound really sweet and cool turn out horribly wrong.
The turning point for me was the great Syrian migration into Europe, and the blatant disregard for the safety of its own citizens to accommodate complete strangers.
Take Germany for example. You've probably heard some things about this event, but it was drastically uncovered by Western media; at that point I realized something was horribly wrong.
>It's propoganda, user. Ehhh, that's for you to decide; but why is this video being blocked at every chance? Getting removed from website to website over semantics like what music the author used. youtube.com/watch?v=i1iGvIpSGko&ab_channel=LordBelmont
Being liberal has some very heartfelt qualities; I'm glad you feel compassion for people you've never met. But you have to take into account the hundreds of years of culture and tradition you're sacrificing just to swing votes towards your favor.
And when you can't even report on the problem b/c areas are "no-go zones", being an "intolerant nationalist" is a hard necessity, a "redpill" you must take. It's more difficult being a nationalist than a globalist, believe me. Take pride in yourself and your country; immigration is fine, but it needs to be careful, controlled, so that the immigrants that are coming respect and assimilate to what we believe.
Hillary Clinton aspired to be "America's Merkel". In my opinion, this is unforgivable.
