Birds of a Feather

>Birds of a Feather
This fucking episode

I like when villain is punished but... damn, you really feel sorry for Penguin
he just wanted to change, be good and all that shit happened to him

this is wrong this is sad

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>would have cost you nuttin'
he do like it stanky.

>Oswald realizes his life of crime has alienated him away from society and has left him without a friend in the world, which gives him incentive to reform
>Batman harasses him every step of the way even though Penguin's already served his due prison sentence, until he finally gets fucked over by shitty circumstances beyond his control and relapses after his only incentive to reform gets callously thrown back into his face and he has no other support to fall back on
>Penguin never formally reforms again
>Edward Nigma recovers at Arkham and also goes legit, re-purposing his "Riddler" persona to make a living as a toy company mascot selling puzzles
>Batman antagonizes him into relapsing into crime again by targeting his OCD; imposing his certainty that Ed "can't help himself"
>Riddler never reforms again
>Harley makes one wildly careless attempt at "going sane", fucking up absolutely everything as badly as possible as though she's become clinically retarded just by hanging around The Joker, and rightfully gets hauled back to Arkham again after spending a whole entire day getting into as much trouble as possible
>Batman forgives her because "he's had a bad day himself once himself", and even gets a kiss for his troubles
>Harley actually DOES reform eventually, too - but only after crossing the line into irredeemable territory by assisting The Joker in mind-breaking Tim and seemingly falling to her death afterwards
How is this everybody's "favorite" version of Batman? He was such an asshole. If Ed and Ozzy were qt girl villains who were immune to accountability for their actions they'd have gotten a chance.

>Batman was actually the real villain of the show

I liked in the tie in comics Penguin becomes mayor and has the police go after Batman. Batman is sure that Penguin rigged the election somehow and ends up hiring the Riddler. The Riddler is nearly murdered and in the end Batman blackmails the Penguin into resigning. He never proves the Penguin did anything wrong, but is sure the Penguin must be guilty.

The girl was cruel man. As a curiosity I think her name was Veronica and she was kidnapped by Harley a while

The best guess I can give is that while Harley was influenced by another part, Penguin and Riddler choose by their own to go illegal. At least, this is how Batsie views the whole thing.
I don't think it's just an issue of this version of the character. Batman basically takes for granted he's in the right in every iteration. Not only against villains, but also among his allies. It's the major reason I don't like him.

Veronica Vreeland, yeah. She's have been in quite the episodes of BTAS, and I think her daughter was the one who was kidnapped during the first episode of Beyond

Wait wasn't Riddler using his toy company to leave robbery clues cause he was still doing crime?

I honestly hate it when a villain, who genuinely wants to change his ways, goes back to his old ways after something happening to him that is beyond his capabilities to control (like the hero screwing up something that leads to this or someone else screwing the villain up).

This makes me both mad and sad.

It wasn't that Batman antagonized him actively, only that he'd keep a close eye on him because he didn't believe that Penguin was fully reformed. And he did attack Oswald once, but then he realized that he was the bad guy in that situation and Penguin was protecting Veronica from a bunch of muggers.

Then a lot of shit happens in that episode and Batman saw that Oswald actually did try to reform, only to go back to his old shit after his heart was broken.

Fuck Veronica. At least she realized that what she did was horrible.

>Swampthings wife has been unjustly imprisoned in his absence
>He ask for her wife to be released so they can fuck off and chill out elsewhere
>Batman brings a flamethrower ni order to fight the big bad evil this humble green thing is
Why is he such a square, for fucks sake.

Forgot the picture.

>rewatched this with my dad a few months ago
>felt really bad for penguin because i was treated the same way in school

>villain's entire motivation for being a villain is the fact that they're deemed a social outcast for reasons beyond their control
>society itself is too shit for them to personally tolerate it's innate callousness, but at the same time, it's inclusive stock of "human decency" is what keeps it from being regarded as objectively irredeemable where everyone else is concerned
>and yet, no amount of decency from the "villain" themselves will earn them their acceptance, because (reasons beyond control) are more damning than their actual character, whether it be good or bad
This trope is frustrating as fuck. And it seems to be the origin story for like, roughly half of Batman's rogues. I'm surprised Killer Croc in particular was never shown as especially sympathetic in TAS, even in the episodes where it could've worked in theory he was still a stone cold crook that seemed too hardened by life to have any ability to reform.

The fucking ending
>Veronica:I'm so sorry oswald..
>Penguin:Don't worry darling, we can always blame society(Penguin looks at her) Goodbye society

Is there a chance Frank Miller is behind this? Because in that case, that isn't Batman but Crazy Steve.

>I'm surprised Killer Croc in particular was never shown as especially sympathetic in TAS

Yeah. They made him less sympathetic than his comic book incarnations.

The latter ones had some screwed up pasts and all due to their conditions and even then they weren't portrayed as complete asses.

I mean, Crock even called out Arsenal on him trying to commit "suicide by Crock" and became the latter's anonymous alcoholic sponsor.

Alan Moore. His wife was arrested on a beastiality charge, and Batman objected to the walking talking flora god invading his city and reducing it to a rainforest because his wife was arrested for the crime of eating his peyote potatoes.

Basically the true villain was Louisiana Tabloid journalism.

...

Riddler faked his sanity to get out of Arkham and was using his toy company position to lure Batman into a completely-inescapable trap, after which he would retire. Except Batman actually does escape the trap and Riddler gets sent back to Arkham pulling his hair out over how he did it.

>I'm surprised Killer Croc in particular was never shown as especially sympathetic in TAS

That's because his treatment as a freak was incidental. Croc was a piece of shit through and through, and enjoyed being said piece of shit. He was a bully, a thug, a brute, and in some instances even a cannibal. It just so happened that his outside matched his inside.

She's basically like that couple in Gargoyles. A background character that shit just happens to throughout the series.

It makes sense though, Gotham is a shite place. Batman is trying to better it, but he is part of the problem. That's the whole point of Batman's character imo, he is just an angry child making bad decisions.

This. Even after being accepted by a group of former circus freaks, he was fully prepared to rob them blind and leave.

>"You said I could be anything I wanted, kid. Guess that's what I was doing. Being myself."

>I don't think it's just an issue of this version of the character. Batman basically takes for granted he's in the right in every iteration. Not only against villains, but also among his allies. It's the major reason I don't like him.
yeah honestly most other animated versions of Bruce have been much more likable when you analyze them, it's one of the reasons I like The Batman so much, it's version of Bruce is a lot more likable(indeed he's probably one of the only versions of Batman where it's Bruce is the real person and not just Batman wearing a disguise)

There was also a B:TAS tie-in comic where Riddler gets so disillusioned over how Batman always solves his riddles and stops his crimes that he's going to give up forever after his next heist. He sends out a riddle for his next crime so impossibly complex that not even Batman can solve it, and he only finds out about said crime because three other criminals and Riddler are trying to steal the same thing. When Batman admits that he couldn't solve the riddle, Riddler gets so overjoyed at having stumped him that he sings all the way back to Arkham's front gate, his confidence renewed.

I like the guy on the bottom right.

Is this an hallucination or mindcontrol? That said I like how Hawk is still "no homo" about it.

Is Gotham like that because of this new Metal storyline, or something else? I hear it was built above the body of a slumbering Lovecraftian god, and his influence warps nearly everything there.

I’m gonna address this bait, because why not.

First panel is literally “not muh”. The Batman I grew up with let Joker fall to his death by tying him to a gargoyle. The Batman my parents grew up with used shark repellant bat-spray. The version you grew up with is not the only correct version.

Second panel: Miller’s Batman used a gun ONCE that I can remember, and I’m pretty sure it was a non-lethal shot to the shoulder. Also, fuck you, Miller Batman never killed anyone that I’m aware of, and who cares what the Batmobile looks like? It’s has many different designs over the years.

Third panel, let me know when Dobson even has a fraction of the influence over the industry that Miller has.

Let’s shit on Miller’s Batman by using imagery from an ACTUAL Green Lantern story where Hal went too far. Let’s spew hyperbole about Batman hypothetically wants to shape the world in his image, and not comment on how another superhero actually tried to do that. Why isn’t Dobson shitting on Hal? Does he not see the irony in using that image?

And let’s cap it off with Godwin’s Law. Nice.

Nervermind that the Millarverse Batman stories take place in their own continuity, seperate from the man canon. He must REALLY hate Injustice.

He's actually dreaming, this is the following page

>The Batman my parents grew up with used shark repellant bat-spray.
The Batman your parents grew up with fought dehydrated-then-rehydrated goons that were literally vaporized when punched.

>Penguin mouth fucking the air, fully erect while dreaming
I'll take "Things I Never Wanted To See" for $300, Alex. The bird fetish wet dream is just missing Hawgirl

And then I'll take all of "Potent Potables" so I can drink the mental image of my head.

Post-Brightest Day BoP was probably the first big indicator that Simone might have lost a step.

Pussy privilege is real

There were a few like that in BTAS. Kind of surprised Summer Gleeson just stopped showing up once the changeover to TNBA happened. Would've probably made for a good romantic interest for Batman (I think they did have a date during the first Kyodai Ken episode).

Nigga shouldn't be ugly
LOL

The art book of this show looks really good.

Too bad it's very expensive tho.

>The Batman your parents grew up with fought dehydrated-then-rehydrated goons that were literally vaporized when punched.
that part is kinda fucked up when you think about it

She had a thing with Bullock of all people. I don't know if that makes her better or worse.

The funny part is that Miller Batman happened before the BTAS Batman Dobson remembers existed, not after.

And also that Miller Batman didn't kill or use lethal weapons, either.

In fact, main difference between Miller Batman and BtaS Batman is that Miller Batman is strongfat and grouchy.

Only because they used heavy water from the bat-reactor that made it unstable. Otherwise it would have worked perfectly.

>try to be a good person
>get taken advantage of over and over
There's a reason I eventually lost faith in most other people. I'm only grateful for the few folk I knew who defended me verbally and physically when I finally started getting combatant.

I try not to judge other people but I get the impression that most people do; and are assholes who only care about themselves.

I shouldn't find this as funny as I did.

The Adam West version of Batman treated crime fighting more like community service. He wasn't obsessed with cleaning up Gotham as much as Frank Miller's, Tim Burton, and DCAU's version of the character.

It's frustrating because the writers rarely want to acknowledge that the hero could be wrong in their handling of the villain. The only exception is Superman, who has the brass balls to admit he fucked up or wonders if the world truly needs him.

This isn't even getting into how badly he treated Clayface.

Well who wouldn't?

Because it's generally dumb. That's a big part of Tynion's Detective Comics (that Batman's methods may do more harm than good) and the book's fucking shit because of it.

He actually is pretty badass whenever he gets a chance to show it.

He offered to help him find a cure at the beginning of the episode and Hagen told him to fuck off. Letting Hagen get permanent control of his powers was an unacceptable outcome.

The Cops in Gotham are badass. They just don't have the resources to deal with villains like Mr. Freeze, or Poison Ivy. Criminals with weather manipulating devices are way above their pay grade.

I can see people finding comic Bullock attractive. He hits those macho bear/dad notes.

Marvelous episode, but something that has always bothered me... Well, not exactly bothered, but.

Oswald kept his trick copter umbrella, a smoke bomb and had all sorts of crazy props prepared to enact his vengeance the MOMENT he was betrayed. I don't know if that should make me feel better or worse for the guy.

>implying penguin wasn't just a fedora-tipping incel

Granted, Veronica was a bitch, but Penguin was fucking cringy, so he had it coming.

>fedora tipping

My good sir, Penguin wears a top hat.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it was like that. He was more boorish than anything.

He did fight off those thugs.

The tragedy of Penguin is that he ALWAYS thinks theres an ulterior motive working against him, so he can't understand a genuine good thing when it happens to him

I know it's status quo but it's really shallow that it only takes one thing for a villain to decide being normal isn't worth it. It proves Batman right to be suspicious that these rogues don't have their heart in it.

Yeah, and I remind you: he did it without using any tricks, just a normal (albeit pointy) umbrella. That scene is just to make you think better of him.

I guess him always suspecting something was afoot would make sense. But he did grow to understand that good thing happening to him, so maybe he was just about to drop that parafernalia together, should he had been able to give his brooch to Veronica.

It's kinda fitting after the ending to this episode to think next notable thing that happens to Oswald in this canon is that he becomes the Dixon kingpin version of the Penguin. "Living well is the best revenge", indeed.

I used to ship him with Montoya

Me too, but I had always gotten the feeling she was a lesbian when I watched the show. Then they made her one in the comics.

IIRC in the show bible it was said that she had a husband who died before the series started so I don't think DCAU Montoya is gay.

Yea, WB tried to censor a lot also, so lesbians was something Timm and Dini could only hint at, as with Harley and Ivy, and Maggie Sawyer in Superman.

>this is wrong this is sad
this is reddit this is memes

Her voice actress in TAS always reminded me of 1940s era actresses for some reason.

>people not recognizing who made this comic...

>>Popeye arms Peach
What's his deal?

Wow the Trial was actually right about him.

Truth.

This is the main point of “Penguin: Pain and Prejudice”.

>LINK HAS BROWN HAIR!

What the actual fuck.

He just couldn't Pengwin

>Millerbats came first and was highly influential
>TAS was so influenced that it had an episode directly homaging it
>Miller used a gun for a nonlethal shot once, but was explicitly stated as having never killed anyone and had a scene where he said "I'm too good for guns"
>Uses the Parallax storyline to blame Batman somehow
>States Millerbats is jealous of other heroes and not just a hardass
>DK3's plot was literally entirely Batman trying to get Superman to help him out
Fucking Dobson.

I like to think she loaned him the money to set up the Iceberg Lounge. It's not like any bank would do that.

Damn, wait, what? That's awesome! What was this in? Does anyone have any pages?

I choose to believe that's non-canon and so should you.

Because people are jerks Sup Forums

The Trial episode WAS right at least partially-right about him, the only problem was all the testimonials against him came from villains who've never held themselves accountable for their downfalls or ever attempted to better themselves, and kinda proved the the point Batman was broadly holding against them. Yeah Riddler and Harley are there, but their "reformation" episodes came after Trial, if the episode order is worth anything where continuity is concerned.

Actually, since I had to fact check to confirm that, I just noticed that Riddler's, Two-Face's, AND Harley's "redemption and relapse" episodes all aired one after the other, leading up to the Lock-Up episode. I never noticed that before.

I honestly though The Trial was a missed opportunity of an episode

Harley Quinn was been a karma houdini for as long as she's existed.
And to be fair, Penguin has had a loong history of pretending to be reformed. It's unfortunate that this was the time he actually did try to reform.

I'd love to see a Batman Beyond style future where Penguin becomes a beloved philanthropist after reforming.

Gail Simone has an annoying insistence in writing Penguin as a pervert and a virgin.

>I know it's status quo but it's really shallow that it only takes one thing for a villain to decide being normal isn't worth it
On most circumstances I agree and I think far too many Batman stories seem to do this in order for Batman to be in the right, but I don't think this applies to this situation because of who Penguin is as a character.
Part of what makes Birds of Feather so great is that it was a "Penguin goes legit but turns out to be lying" plot but with the twist that he really wasn't lying and was actually trying to be upstanding for once. Batman had every reason to be suspicious of him.
The episode goes over how Oswald's attempts to be accepted fail and everyone sneers at how boorish and awkward he is, and that the only good thing he had at that point, a relationship with Veronica, turned out to be yet another cruel joke on him.
Oswald is already an extremely vindictive character and no one at that point expected, or even really cared, whether or not he actually reformed. It's not like how it is with Two-Face where Bruce's undying belief on his friend being salvageable still occasionally allows Harvey to pull himself from the darkness a little. Batman has no connection to Penguin and was just waiting for him to inevitably fall back so he could be there to save people from him.

I've read that Paul Dini clarified the fate of a few of the show's rogues and that he said Penguin ended up retiring from the nightclub industry and instead settled down in a daycare where kids call him "Uncle Pengy".
I think it fits. TAS Penguin never really seemed as massively rich or well-connected as the comics version. He's more of a wannabe gentleman criminal than a kingpin.

Which story is that? And also, what are some Penguin essentials? He's always been one of my favorite Batman Villains.

>Which story is that?
It's called Bird Cage and it's from The Batman and Robin Adventures.

>what are some Penguin essentials?
See pic related
I'd also recommend Batman #17 (The Penguin Goes a Hunting), Batman #30 (Back to the Big House) and Batman #61 (The Mystery of the Winged People) for some good Golden Age Penguin stories

Thanks user!