I was reading one of Tom King's interviews about Mister Miracle. King was saying that Alan Moore really captured the anxiety of the 80s and the political climate and he was inspired by that to try to recapture the anxiety and despair people feel in the age of Trump in Mister Miracle.
I really enjoy his writing, I she doing for us what Alan Moore did for the generation who read comics in the 80s?
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We will be unable to tell until much, much later as King is still fairly early in his career.
i dunno but you can't throw those comparisons around until someone's been in the game a decade or so
A bit redundant.
no
He hasn't been around long enough for these kinds of heavy comparisons, and I feel as though his focuses on depression with his Batman and Mister Miracle, while very good, is too thematically similar to compare to a varied bibliography like the Rasputin boy
Still like his work though
Considering his Batman has been garbage, no. Not even close.
i dont think king captures the zeitgeist as well as moore did, he just knows how to write ptsd and war, so that's what he writes.
I think he's a big fan of Alan Moore, and from a technical standpoint he has a decent understanding of what made Moore's work so appealing. Like I think his Doomsday clock tie-in issue was waaay more interesting than what Geoff is doing in the main series.
I wonder how he feels about the fact that if Alan Moore knew about his work, he'd probably really fucking hate it, especially after he wrote that Doomsday Clock tie-in.
He wishes he was, but ultimately he is an incredibly shallow writer.
>his Batman has been garbage
If anything that gives more strength to the Moore comparisons.
>Like I think his Doomsday clock tie-in issue was waaay more interesting than what Geoff is doing in the main series.
Geoff Johns wrote that issue.
Not because he do not fight over the copyright 24/7
It’s only because of King that I started reading Batman again after Snyder fucking killed all interest in the character during New 52.
hue hue hue?
same. and yet by the time he got to the proposal it was even worse.
It was written by Tom King:
It takes decades to build a consensus over what work is defined as “classic” or “good”. Ask again in 10 years. Don’t fucking ask now you dumbass, when Mr. Miracle isn’t even done yet.
I know it says it was written by Tom King, but it was written by Johns, it even gives Johns a story credit.
Basically what happened was King wrote what was going to be The Button Part One, it was sent to Johns who rewrote most of it (hence why Batman isn't a complete onion it in). The only part of King's stuff which is still there is the Hockey Game, and even that was more due to the artist that King anyway.
It's why Williamson wrote part 3 when King was supposed to write part 3.
Moore might very well hate it. I don't think Moore hates anything more than people aping him. I don't think King copies him hardcore, but it's very easy to see his attempts at Moore-isms throughout every single comic he's written (at least the ones I've read).
But at the same time I'm sure he'd know that King is no Geoff Johns. When King writes something, there's a clear goal in mind beyond the literalism of what he puts on page. There's symbolism and allegories and all that fun stuff. King has ambition in his writing and sees characters as more than just action figures. But on the other hand, King I think puts too much of himself into his work at times, and is keen on using characters as tools to make his story work, as opposed to writing the characters as who they are.
IDK...I like King, he's possibly my favorite writer currently working in the superhero business, but I can see why people have issues with him. I think he's both overrated and underrated at the same time. People are so quick to hail his work as revolutionary and say his books are some of the best of all time, and then you have the people who refuse to acknowledge his works as even being readable because they think he's so terrible.
It's strange. Kinda like Morrison historically, but the love and hate seems to be more equally distributed.
He is one of the very few writers that actually writes for floppies. His Mr Miracle and Vision are extremely based around the floppy and every issue has a specific theme and tone that seperates it from the others. His writing is episodic in a very good way. It seems he is best as a short story writer. Which actually makes the comparisson to Moore even better cause Moores best works are his short form stuff.
I still don't understand how someone that wrote Vision could write such a shit Batman run.
Considering his batman is an insult to who isn't mentally damaged, no. His Mister Miracle is innovative but still overrated.
No he's not as good as Moore, at least not right now.
You are insulting Tom King by comparing him to Alan Moore. alan moore is a hack
Moore hates people. Therefore anyone who writes better than him (99% of writers, only bendis and millar are worse than moore) is hated by moore.
Stop the charade, throw moore down the well
>exclusive-tom-king-mitch-gerads-miracle-man.html
>miracle-man
Kek
No wonder Scott is such a whiny, impotent, hypocritical soyboy.
>Moore hates people.
Nah he likes Gaiman, Ennis and Ellis. It's just people like Johns and Morrison he hates.
>despair in the Trump era
>unemployment is down
>ISIS is almost gone
>tax cuts relief workers
where's the despair?
>tax cuts relief workers
You mean the rich
$1000 is nothing to sneeze at. I'll take yours if you hate it so much.
bullshit, he hates them
by rich, he meant people who have a job
He's recommended at least one of their works and praised them all personally.
that's how I know that he hates them
if he liked them, he would recommend more than ONE work
What ever he's doing I want him to stop writing Batman.
That's retarded user.
No, that's Moore
Take your small .3% tax cut while the rich get a 1% tax cut and very rich 5%. The poor being happy about any small thing is predictable, still means they are grtting fucked over even more
Not even close. King's work is deeply conservative (perhaps because of his past in CIA?). He's a mediocre writer that earned fame by memeing his books. What Snyder did with subtlety (i.e incorporating philosophical ideas into his books) King does it by smashing our face repeatedly on a desk till we agree "Yes, I get it, it's a metaphor"
>I'd rather have no cut if it means that rich have to pay their taxes outside of u
you think like a nigger
Oh so now it's nigger think when the rich get what they ask for and middle class get a small payout to appease them? Are you happy to get a penny when your boss cuts benefits and gets ten thousand? The middle class and poor get nothing on this tax cut.
Fairly sure Alan Moore is the modern day Alan Moore.
How old are you? It's forbidden to post on Sup Forums if you're underage
>Ex-CIA
That explains so much
You'd have to be a spook to think that bane storyline wasnt Problematic AF
Moore's scripts are huge
Poor artists.
so many words. all of them gay
No. You can tell off the bat he's not as good as Alan Moore was even early with Future Shocks, Halo Jones etc.
>He is one of the very few writers that actually writes for floppies. His Mr Miracle and Vision are extremely based around the floppy and every issue has a specific theme and tone that seperates it from the others.
I can't imagine being so new and naive to say something like this. It's honestly so incorrect it could be bait.
user, I know you took the pills they slipped in your pudding during the nightly news but, in all honesty, the tax cuts don't "benefit the rich and fuck the poor" until 2028. It is planned to do so. It's a plan based on the assumption that democrats wont have the power or desire to touch taxes again (they won't the package helps them all just as much, especially at that point).
>deeply conservative
No, it isn't.
t. a consevative
>I wanted to write about the Trump era, but I didn’t want to write, “Fascism sucks” or “Trump sucks.” That doesn’t get you anywhere. You’re taking your Twitter feed and putting it in panels. What I wanted to do is capture the emotion of the period, and the anxiety, the way Alan Moore captured the anxiety of the ‘80s or Kirby captured the anxiety of the ‘70s or even Lee captured the optimism of the ‘60s; to capture the feeling, more than the politics.
What did he mean by this?
President is openly racist
President openly antagonising the leader of a nuclear power (North Korea) bringing us closer to war
President antagonising American Muslims
Mass deportations of peace undocumented migrants
Rollback of important healthcare provisions and cuts to important services like medicare and social security
President is openly fascist and attacks freedom of speech and the free press.
New legislation allowing health care providers and businesses to discriminate against LGBT folk
There's a lot people are mad about
Get some taste
>President is openly racist
So were the top 5 hailed as the greatest
>President openly antagonising the leader of a nuclear power (North Korea) bringing us closer to war
SK's president himself said Trump helped in the crisis
>Mass deportations of peace undocumented migrants
You break the law, you pay the fine.
>New legislation allowing health care providers and businesses to discriminate against LGBT folk
>muh cake!!!!1
Also, you do know that's because faggots are more promiscuous statistically speaking and are thus a greater liability?
>attacks freedom of speech
You muricans all do this.
Citation needed
Fuck off to Sup Forums seriously
This is hilarious and all the evidence you need that King is a complete fucking hack tool. Someone post his pitch for Vision, it's equally as pretentious and stupid.
>pretentious
Sup Forums thinks anything more complex than "Batman punches the joker" is pretentious.
Symbolism and allegories mean precisely fuck all when you can't construct a decent plot, three-dimensional characters, or even one line of dialogue that isn't bragging about how brilliant it is while being terribly written, and said symbolism is so ridiculously on the nose that it hurts.
I wish we had Batman punching the Joker instead of Joker saving the Batman from killing the Riddler.
Thanks for proving my point. Sup Forums doesn't just swallow shit, it prefers to.
this is either bait or you're the type of person that is directly responsible for most of the vitriol King gets.
No Sup Forums doesn't think anything more complex than punching is pretentious. That's always the disingenuous line trotted out. It aligns with the "brainlet" posts perfectly.
King's writing is the definition of pretentious. He takes menial things, which could be witty in passing and with subtlty, and SMASHES the reader over the fucking head with them to hammer home their importance. That is LITERALLY the definition of pretentious. As is taking his shitty little "mental health studies" of these characters any more serious than punching the joker in the face.
And to be called pretentious in return, or to be called brainlet, or to have it asserted that action is all that we want is all that's ever said in response. No one can ever defend criticism of king's work without trying to paint the critical poster as insane, stupid or overly-cynical (towards the most cynical writer ever, the only category he rivals moore in).
but sure, the one response you got automatically "proves your point" rather than the actual pretentious indiefags on Sup Forums which you would know about had you not just arrived here.
Ummmm a suicidal Batman nearly killing a villain for reasons that he could have easily prevented earlier if he was paying attention only to have him be saved by the Joker, who in all other iterations of the character is generally actively trying to get Batman to kill somebody and would relish the opportunity to witness it first hand, is the equivalent of King taking a steaming hot shit in your mouth. You can pretend like that's better than an inoffensive good vs evil story if you want, but at least I'm not pretending that shit tastes like caviar.
>No Sup Forums doesn't think anything more complex than punching is pretentious
You guus think using a picture that has gone viral for refernce is pretentious.
Instead of telling via extreme monologue show those actions and give repercutions to those actions
>b-b-but muh dinner issue. and the five whole days. a-and, y-y-you just wanted more action!
also a quote you could pull from that very post:
>but sure, the one response you got automatically "proves your point" rather than the actual pretentious indiefags on Sup Forums which you would know about had you not just arrived here.
I guess that wouldn't have made a very smart reply, though, would it?
>King's writing is the definition of pretentious. He takes menial things, which could be witty in passing and with subtlty, and SMASHES the reader over the fucking head with them to hammer home their importance.
Name me some example of this happening.
>to give us Vertigo, the kind you get when you watch those crazy videos of Russian kids cimbling huge towers to take selfies of themselves. (see ref). It's a beautiful, clear day.
If you don't see how the idiocy on display in this story titled Every Epilogue is a Prologue amounts to someone trying to appear smarter than he actually is then I don't know what to tell you.
this.
Bruce cutting his wrists when he was child.
Vision has all the flaws found in Batman. The success of Vision convinced him to push these flaws to the surface more and it also convinced his editors to let him do whatever the fuck he wants.
Tell me how using a picture for reference is pretentious. Seriously, explain your arguments instead of whining.
Amen to that.
Lookup that word you idiot, it's not all about political stance
How is that pretentious.
>No one can ever defend criticism of king's work
I've seen a lot of people point out how lot of these "criticism" is usually just shitposting.
It's ridiculously obvious and over the top, hamfisted teenager melodrama, which is exactly what that comment was asking for.
>It's ridiculously obvious and over the top, hamfisted teenager melodrama,
No it's not and that's still not being pretentious.
>80s 70s considered anxious and the magical 60s were "optimistic"
Give me a fucking break, spook.
>No it's not
Well you sure showed him
>I don't know what to tell you.
So you won't give me an actual answer.
How is it not? How is injecting a superhero that has had a tried and true formula for 75 years with suicidal tendencies (which actually run counter to everything the character stands for) not the very definition of pretentious?
Kite Man in general, specifically the interludes. If you weren't new to this discussion you would know very well the sisyphus discussion that has taken place many times. I have no intention of opening that up again.
"Batman" being a form a suicide specifically when being an actual extension of prior suicide attempts as a kid. Another common discussion point in story times.
The Bane/Bruce mirror panel issue. It takes every "subtlety" of the relashionship between bane and bruce and their upbringings and hammers it home for an issue. before culminating in catwoman beating him easily to pay off all of the CIA, crash the plane memes scattered throughout. These things were all also mentioned in story times.
I never said that though so why would I address that?
so valid criticism is shitposting but telling people they're brainlets, or pretentious for saying things are pretentious isn't? leave faggot why come here if you're spouting shit about what other anons have said about other anons. lurk more and make an opinion of your own.
>the anxiety and despair people feel in the age of Trump
It's all a farce though. The anxiety people felt in the 80s was legitimate. It was real. People are now are just more sensitive. They get triggered by tweets and say we live in dark times.
Here's an actual answer, a person who uses Russian selfies as a substitute to actual descriptions and writing is a fucking idiot.
Well his argument is non-existent.
You tell me how it is.
it's a few posts above. you seem to be new enough to think you're talking to one person.
>I have no intention of opening that up again.
Yeah, because last time time you did people made fun of you for thinking a literary allusion was pretentious.
>pre·ten·tious
>prəˈten(t)SHəs/
>attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
>"a pretentious literary device"
the internet, man, it's pretty damn amazing. finds you things like definitions in an instant.
And no, a few anons agreed and others thought it ws interesting. I don't think there was any disagreement on it being pretentious. You're free to actually go pull those comments from an archive though. user asked for examples and now the topic seems to be shifting to (as I predicted) making remarks toward me.
Amazing...you still haven't explain once why these things are pretentious.
Sure I'll thoroughly and completely pin you to the wall while you say nothing. It's an obvious attempt to inject real world pathos into a story that already has its fair share, an example of an author thinking that a larger than life superhero needs to be brought down a peg or two in order to be "relatable" and going about it in the most poorly constructed and childishly obvious manner imaginable that demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding about the character he's writing, character development as a whole, and the ability to tell a compelling story in general, while expecting to be praised for being the deepest shit in the world.
The problem with kingfags is that they can never say what makes Tom King's comics so incredible and "smart". I get it, there are a lot of shiposters and that can be annoying but there are people with legitimate issues in regards to these comics and kingfags can only reply with " stop shitposting" or "you're a brainlet".
>I don't think there was any disagreement on it being pretentious
Yeah there was and I should know I was there. In fact that was the biggest argument in the thread, one guy jist kept insisting that it was pretentious for King to make an allusion to Camus.
they're menial things he hammers over the head of the reader repeatedly, "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed."
>'s an obvious attempt to inject real world pathos into a story that already has its fair share,
So you're saying that it's not pretentious at all because it's something that's completely normal for Batman.