The best Superman design

It's this right here. Classic, simple, yellow belt, red trunks. Every other design is just busy and tryhard. Why does DC keep teying to fix what isn't broken with gay-looking tiaras and pointy sleeves? And why does *Superman* need armor?

On the list of "Things That Matter About Superman", what he fucking wears is pretty near the bottom, you pleb.

That's really not true now, is it?

Wow this post transported me to 2011

gray frank is so good

nu-superman wouldn't be so bad if they made the belt yellow

but fuck lee and didio for being anti-trunksfags

Lee recently drew Supes with red trunks again

Even he can't deny that the trunks will never go away.

The trunks look pretty stupid now desu

They're really the best solution for breaking up all that blue. The only other way I've seen it done well was to make them blue jeans and a shirt, but that's less Superman and more Jim from the mail room.

It also helps stop his dick from poking out since the blue is supposed to be skintight.

>Superman with trunks
>good
>not ridiculous

>superheroes
>not ridiculous

???

Normies can't take anything seriously unless it's grim and gritty and everybody dies and is evil. Even then they prefer shitty sitcoms.

Superheroes can be not ridiculous pretty easily, without being grim and gritty.
Rebirth Superman for example.

Superman Rebirth is super ridiculous.

>ripping super dog out of weird kryptonian robot on the moon
>human wife surviving on barbaric world Apokalips
>Superman dealing with the fact that a nigh omnipotent imp from the fifth dimension is out to get revenge on him and then his entire timeline is torn apart and haphazardly stitched back together filled with inconsistencies and plot holes

But red trunks is too much.

Are you fucking retarded?

I've always liked the legless trunks better than the legged ones. looks more dynamic somehow.

They really don't. They make him look like a superhero, which is pretty fitting.

I think you've gotten me confused with yourself there, user.

I always preferred the barrel-chest design.

You have just proved my point.

>Why does DC keep teying to fix what isn't broken


It is broken, though. His appearance is often cited as one of the biggest obstacles for new readers.

Why do old men need their nostalgia to be constantly validated?

No, they make him like a circus act, which he isn't.

Nothing of value is lost if the character moves past the overroos. It's only nostalgic old men choosing the stupidest hill ever to die upon.

wearing shorts over spandex is something all male athletes do
its not some silly fantasy, in fact its much more realistic than anything else about the character

women wear tights directly, when men wear tights they wear an extra layer on top of them to hide the outline of their cock

>in fact its much more realistic than anything else about the character


trunksfags lose all credibility when they say eyerollingly overstated nonsense like this. This kind of blatant horseshit makes me like the shorts less.

I'm not sure why you are trying to deny that men wear shorts over spandex all the damn time

is there anybody who dislikes the trunks that's over the age of 20? Serious question. I think it's pretty much just the kids who grew up since they were like 10-12 when superman lost the trunks.

I can't imagine an adult, who isn't a complete marvel drone, hating the trunks. Only people in comics I've seen make a joke about it are losers like Brevoort.

A lot of ad hominem from the anti-trunks brigade. Really makes me think.

I'm in my early 30's, Superman's my favorite, I'd rather they go away

A lot of vacuous excuses for nostalgia from the pro-trunks side. Really makes you think.

I'm in my early 30's, Superman's my favourite, I wish they'd stay forever.

>A lot of ad hominem from the anti-trunks brigade

the post above yours is calling that side children, and even worse, compares them to Brevoort. Great self awareness there, buddy

To be fair children often can't vocalize their arguments beyond "It's stupid and I don't like it!"

how can one be self-aware of someone else?

also just above that someone referred to as a "trunksfag" provided a valid point and was told it was "eyerollingly overstated nonsense".

I don't agree with user that it's the anti-trunks people solely tossing adhoms around but it isn't the opposite either. It's very clearly both.

But to be real honest I can't imagine someone older than 20 not liking the trunks because then you wouldn't be a superman fan. They existed for most of your life at that point. Either you don't like superman and want him changed to an image you prefer or you're too young to know any other superman.

But he's literally correct.

>how can one be self-aware of someone else?

Selfawareness includes understanding what is going around you and where you fit in to said context. When you call out ad hominem from those who disagree with you right under ad hominem from someone who agrees with you, well, it makes them hard to take seriously. And I never said the anti-trunks side wasn't tossing salt around.

>But to be real honest I can't imagine someone older than 20 not liking the trunks because then you wouldn't be a superman fan.

You can enjoy something but also accept that small aspects of its design can evolve over time. You don't have to believe something is perfect to love something. Like with everything that changes in comics, it is admirable how long the trunks survived, but the idea that they are genuinely important is pretty forced.

>but the idea that they are genuinely important is pretty forced.
look at the response from big 2 artists alone online. they all posted pictures and sketches and doodles of superman in trunks. they're pumped. It just seems to me anyone who waas going to be buying action comics 1000 would be the type of person to prefer them. And to be honest, it wasn't important, until it became so important to take them away because they were "silly". taking shit away because "it's silly" is a sign of the cynicism that crept into comics in the hopes that they could gain new fans from people who always turned their nose up at them. It wasn't the trunks that kept people away from reading superman. If it was then that alone proves the importance of them being there (or, not being there).

Because comics are not a visual medium at all...

>Only people in comics I've seen make a joke about it are losers like Brevoort.

Whats the quote?

I feel the same way about the 2cool design changes but seriously. Superman designs are all just variations of a man in a blue gimp suit and red cape. It's not like making Zatanna an edgy emo teen

gimpsuits are leather. that doesn't really fit superman's suit which, when at it's peak form, is literally all cotton with satin stitched crests completely assembled by martha. Cotton Pilling all over it from being washed in a machine so much.

also, same user still, the way I see it Superman's "trunks" are actually sewn parts of the fabric. Batman's would be trunks and include testicular protection. ie a cup that's form fitted better than a those used in baseball so one can run faster than frozen molasses.

>look at the response from big 2 artists alone online

For the most part, they fall under the mid 30's-and-above "old guy" camp, which just brings back to the nostalgia thing.

>And to be honest, it wasn't important, until it became so important to take them away because they were "silly". taking shit away because "it's silly" is a sign of the cynicism that crept into comics in the hopes that they could gain new fans from people who always turned their nose up at them.

While I totally understand the creeping cynicism you are talking about, on the other hand, I personally prefer when superhero comics have the confidence to not hide behind a sense of frivolity that implies that fans and creators all need to be in on some kind of joke with these stories. That approach to superheroes is one of the reason storytelling in this genre is so disposable.

And, at least in my personal experience, the number one complaint isn't a matter of 'silliness', but that the look is just dated. Sure, there are contexts where people wear shorts over spandex like the other poster above pointed out, but those contexts are pretty specific, and get fewer and fewer as years go on. It's certainly never done because it's a 'good' look. People don't go to the circus anymore, let alone to the strong man shows Superman's look is based on. Professional wrestlers use tights like that less and less and time goes on. In World's Strongest Man contests you see on ESPN Ocho, no one wears outfits like that. It evokes the sort of athletic strength is was designed to evoke less with every year that passes.

>It wasn't the trunks that kept people away from reading superman

It really is though, as it is one of the things most noted for why people dismiss the character. And it's like one of the simplest and easiest details to change that would help the character be more appealing to more people.

> I personally prefer when superhero comics have the confidence to not hide behind a sense of frivolity that implies that fans and creators all need to be in on some kind of joke with these stories
>That approach to superheroes is one of the reason storytelling in this genre is so disposable.

tell me user, how do you feel about the alien in Watchmen? Did you feel it was out of place?

>but the idea that they are genuinely important is pretty forced.
>It really is though, as it is one of the things most noted for why people dismiss the character

Wow, seems pretty important then wouldn't you say? Or do you think the second point was "pretty forced"?

>what is hyperbole
Most illustrations I see the trunks are clearly a seperate layer. They're differently textured, less form fitting and theres usually some shading to show where the red ends and the blue starts, or vice versa. On the other hand, Batman weirdly suits trunks. Every trunkless batman I see looks really off.

I'm just gonna say I have some mixed and complicated feelings about Watchmen. I don't want to risk getting into any derailing discussions, so I'm just going to invite you to make the point you are planning on making.

Those statements are from two different contexts. They obviously have an importance to the community, as they've become one of the strangest symbols to be debated, which is what is forced, but in terms of their actual impact to Superman as a concept and character, they are pretty meaningless, and if getting rid of them means on less hurdle for his longevity, than good.

>implying underwear on the outside looks better than Kal-El: Commander of The Red Shard
Kill your self OP

>no u

Just stop

>their actual impact to Superman as a concept and character, they are pretty meaningless, and if getting rid of them means on less hurdle for his longevity, than good.

user you're attempting to say that people who actually enjoy something should make a concession because something is important to people who don't support it (support meaning generally buy superman/action comics). You're saying it's not important so it shouldn't be but at the same time saying that it's a major sticking point for people, meaning it has importance.

It's not two different contexts it is quite literally the two opposing sides of the same context. you're simply deciding one is valid and one is not.

as for my point about watchmen you know damn well what I'm saying. You don't want to give your opinion because it proves exactly the point I'm making. The alien is a representation of everything normies cannot accept in comics. The alien is Superman's trunks. They are one in the same in terms of perception.

I would wager a heavy sum on the fact that there is a near complete overlap between people who dislike those parts of watchmen and people who dislike the trunks.

>The alien is a representation of everything normies cannot accept in comics. The alien is Superman's trunks
Not that guy but this was so stupid I actually laughed. I'd also say its silly to use Watchmen for your argument since a lot of the comic is just making fun if superheroes and the fact that they're costumes are dumb and impractical. Are you against capes on costumes by the way? You should be.

>since a lot of the comic is just making fun if superheroes
this is why I know you're someone who agrees with him. it very much IS NOT making fun of them. but sure, if you don't like capeshit you'd think it was. And no, I'm not against capes. Why would anyone be against capes if they like trunks? That's actually an assertion stupid enough to warrant laughter.

"agrees with him" referring to the user who thinks the alien and the trunks are stupid.

Because you used Watchmen as an example.

>The alien is a representation of everything normies cannot accept in comics

>normies

wew lad

way to instantly confirm every sterotype of trunksfags

>it very much IS NOT making fun of them
Sure thing, honey.

Should just be whatever grundies he was wearing before he had to strip down to his suit then.

>superman in tighty whiteys
Yes.

user, you aren't even making an argument. Notice there was no refutation of what I said. Because it's pretty true. Anyone that would complain about the trunks to the point of not wanting them there is the type of person who thinks Alan Moore was "making fun of superheroes" or thinks the alien and some of the hokier bits of Watchmen were out of place.

he was making fun of publishers and the way stories were approached and written. you would know this if you actually knew a fucking thing about cape comics or alan moore.

And lets be very honest here, the Alan Moore who wrote Watchmen is very different and much less salty than the Alan Moore from almost any interview people post. He wrote that story with love and admiration. His anger and cynicism towards the industry paints it as a hateful mockery of superheroes to tourists who just show up for the movie discussions.

>you would know this if you actually knew a fucking thing about cape comics or alan moore.

I just wanted to say I agree with every point you've been making, but it's a waste since you're arguing with teenagers who don't really care about the history or legacy of cape comics.

>He wrote that story with love and admiration
If you say so, hon.

It sucks that "old stories" are simply discarded these days as too silly. A good barometer of someone's views on comics is how they look at golden and silver age stories. If they think they aren't worth reading they likely think Watchmen is an evisceration of the genre as well.

>you're simply deciding one is valid and one is not.

You know, with the way you put it, I see what you're saying about my point. And you know what, I am saying that. The concern for a commercial product to generate a sustainable readership as it continues to be sold over generations is a valid concern, and removing the smallest barriers for entry possible is a good idea. The demand for what is ultimately a single piece of superfluous costume flair be a requirement is not a valid concern. It is a line in the sand In the end, especially because no one alive today came in to being a Superman fan before he as a character endured many, many, many changes already. He's proved that strong enough to endure as Superman through such permutations.
>You don't want to give your opinion because it proves exactly the point I'm making. The alien is a representation of everything normies cannot accept in comics. The alien is Superman's trunks. They are one in the same in terms of perception.

I'll admit I was coy on answering your question, but it's because it was such a transparent and needless gotcha question. Though I did also have a genuine interest to avoid tangent arguments over a controversial comic in a thread where tempers are already flaring. At least you didn't waste any more time by doubling down, and instead finally provided your point.

But then, like, are you serious about this statement? Normies? It seems like you'd prefer comics to be some kind of insular club where absurd elements are a litmus test for the kind of people who deserve to be real fans.

>It sucks that "old stories" are simply discarded these days as too silly. A good barometer of someone's views on comics is how they look at golden and silver age stories. If they think they aren't worth reading they likely think Watchmen is an evisceration of the genre as well

The thing is that in order to best or truly appreciate older comics, I think you need to have at least some basic understanding of the context in which they were written.

Or at least have the curiosity to read up on those older gems and their timeframe.

But most people (read: the average readers) simply don't care about that, and haven't read anything prior to 2005 it seems.

Also:

>The concern for a commercial product to generate a sustainable readership as it continues to be sold over generations is a valid concern, and removing the smallest barriers for entry possible is a good idea.

This is the kind of thinking that leads to unnecessary reboots / retcons. When a simple reference or expectation for a reader to pick up an older issue / TPB is considered "too much effort", then you know something's fucked with your market.

>what he fucking wears is pretty near the bottom, you pleb.
yeah Supermans outfit is not important
it only inspired every Superhero that came after him

>But then, like, are you serious about this statement? Normies? It seems like you'd prefer comics to be some kind of insular club where absurd elements are a litmus test for the kind of people who deserve to be real fans.

Honestly, I feel like this either hit home or you're in marketing and have been so conditioned to think of prospective customers as actual customers. Nobody speaks like that here. Why type an audible pause?

And yes "normies". It's a perfectly acceptable phrase here to describe the type of person who doesn't understand the alien in watchmen and "wouldn't buy" superman if he was wearing trunks (as if they'd ever bought a superman comic regardless).

>haven't read anything prior to 2005 it seems.
this is sadly true. It's not even just that they skip the original ASM run or that they think the entire golden and silver ages are skippable, it's gone so far that they think TDKR is trash. Not just "dated" like some call Watchmen now, but "trash" or "garbage".

The "nerd" culture WB and Disney fostered in an attempt to get the general public spending money on their characters has been disasterous for the comics. And they don't care because "herr derr box office" but this is Sup Forums. I care. And anyone here should care. Our entire countries history is fucking short and they can't even keep track of 100 years of capeshit.

Len Wein dies and I don't think I heard a single news outfit report it. Kirby's 100th couldn't get a special report from 60 minutes or any of them. It's honestly despicable.

>the most well known clothing in the world is unimportant

The square trunks look fine. It's the v shaped trunks that look like shit.

How about you chucklefucks post your favorite Superman costume designs then so we can see how superior your taste is

This.

Why does we always draw Reeves face on supes. It's SUPER distracting, especially if you assign little value to those donner movies