Why are all the designs so cutesy and non threatening that all the coolness from the OG series is taken away...

Why are all the designs so cutesy and non threatening that all the coolness from the OG series is taken away, and now the designs and humor makes it feel like a preschool show? Why is CN purposefully dumbing down their shows maturity wise? Is this the style of new blood in the industry, or is this because of CN meddling?

Easier to animate. Notice how Wildmutt is gone and Stinkfly and Wildvine are bipeds.

Both that it's easier to animate, and because if they appeal to younger kids, they'll be able to make more money on merch. Little kids are where the money is at, after all. Older kids are more likely to just want electronics.

Which is a damn shame, because the Ben 10 series would make a bitchin' video game if they got the right people to make it.

So they are literally encouraging laziness on these shows now? Jesus christ, its the fucking 80s all over again. Can theys top with the participation prize mentality and tell their animators to do their fucking job
>and because if they appeal to younger kids, they'll be able to make more money on merch.
The designs are too milquetoast and non threating, this looks like baby shit. This wont sell toys like the old shows did.

>Designs are milquetoast and non threatening

Buddy, who do you think buys toys for kids? Protip - it ain't the four year olds.

If they designs are kiddied down, grandparents and over protective moms will be more willing to buy them. Parents picking out birthday presents for when their kids get invited to birthday parties will pick up the friendlier designs because they want to pick something that will go over well with other parents.

Is it like the 80s again? Yeah, a little bit. But the upside is that after the shit the 80s gave us we had a glut of pretty gud shit in the 90s, so I'm optimistic for the future

Actually, isn’t this show made by the guys who were in charge of the OS? Because if so, this can’t be blamed on new blood.

Toys are supposed to look cool to kids, thereby be imaginative and cool looking. These will be a fucking failure because no one wants toys of such boring shit, that only their grandpa likes because hes stuck in the 50s and think anything not fluffy and cartoony is “sinful” for kids

But again, it's GRANDPA who has the money, not the kids.

The kids might prefer the toys that look cooler, but they don't have a say as to what great aunt agnes buys them for christmas. and all great aunt agnes knows is that little billy watches that tv show with the aliens in it, because thats the show he was watching when she visited him last.

its really a nasty cycle in a way. adults buy the toys because the kids watch it on tv. the kids watch it on tv because thats all the network is showing. thats all the network is showing because toy sales are booming. toy sales are booming because adults are buying the toys for their kids

I wouldn't be surprised if its also because little kids are one of the few demographics that still watch TV instead of streaming or pirating.
Its the same reason why music sales charts are dominated by songs young girls like.

Thats a good point, though I expect streaming will become more prevalent among younger kids as time goes on and more people opt to cut cable out of their lives. Once that occurs, I wonder how it will effect toy-sale TV shows. If there are more streamers, will it be more profitable to switch those kinds of shows off networks and onto streaming sites?

People still watch tv, idiots. Even then, its not an excuse to make only the bare minimum, lowest denominator shit on cable

The designs remind of the Super Alien Hero Buddy Adventures episode from season 3. I wonder, how does MoA feel about becoming the thing they briefly mocked?

Of course people still watch TV, but they aren't watching it the same way as they used to. Small children are the only demographic that has remained consistent in that regard, namely watching whatever is on TV just because it's there. With adults and older kids if they don't want to watch something, they'll find something else that they DO want to watch.

>With adults and older kids if they don't want to watch something, they'll find something else that they DO want to watch.
Thats mostly because tv channels have went pants on head retarded and started only airing shit, making streaming a necessity. Just look at the TTG spam

The target audience is literally young children, what the fuck are you expecting out of this show?

CN thinks they can gear this show to little-little kids and age it up with the audience.

All shows are being made to Give birth to nee hentai art.

Seriously the only way to watch these is to think of the new hentai are that is inevitable gonna be made from it. That's why I still watch.

To not be preschool shit like the old show. This reboot is fucking garbage

Ah yes, because that worked SO well with UAF.

Don't get me wrong, I liked it well enough to watch all of it, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't the weakest stretch

Theres hardly any art of nu gwen, it pisses me the fuck off. Same like how theirs no good on model art of 2D mavis

Rule 34 had some.

Yes, they've gone pants on head retarded, but they've done it for a reason. Theres a method to their madness.

Like I said before, the parents buy the toys because its what the kids are watching. the kids are watching because its all the network plays. its all the network plays because the parents keep buying toys.

Adults and older kids can escape. Younger kids can't, or at least they don't do it as effectively. Hence, the shows they want to sell toys of are being made to skew younger.

Its all futa shit, none of it is good or fappable

And yet those toys wont sell or the show wont get views because its too boring and immature and the designs look like shit. Who wouldve thought ignoring fanbase and time tested marketing wouldve bit them in the ass

To be fair, UAF’s problems came more from the execution than the intent.

And yet they ARE selling, and the show IS getting views.

For now.

Like it or not, toys for older kids do. not. sell. They are a niche market. By making things "interesting" they are taking risks that they won't appeal to the most amount of people. Thus, they dumb down the content and soften the designs. Why? So that the parents with the money will buy them for their little angels

Eventually, the kids who grew up with the shitty kiddyfied shows will enter the workforce and create the sorts of shows they wished they could have had. These shows will have great designs and interesting concepts, but their toys won't sell. And so the cycle will begin anew

MoA hasn't been involved with the franchise since the original series ended (not counting the GR crossover). They're just given a "created by" credit because they created the characters and concepts.

>And yet they ARE selling, and the show IS getting views.
But its not, faggot. The toys are rotting at my local stores shelves

>saying toys with interesting designs dont sell, when the old ben 10 line broke records while NOBODY likes the new reboot
This is some new level of retardation

Get the fuck out of here, you serious? Well shit.

Sure, but how do you fix that?

Almost everything they gave us feels like it came straight from a fansite list of "hey wouldn't it be cool if..."

>Kevin joined Ben
>BRAND NEW ALIENS
>Darker and Edgier, with people dying, like for real, not fake where they get better
>Max goes on his own adventures
>More Vilgax
>Evil inverse Ben
>High stakes fate of the entire universe stuff

How do you rectify it when they give the fans everything they want but still manage to fuck it up?

And somehow the toys are sold out at my local stores. It's almost as if different geographical areas have different demographics.

Nobody on Sup Forums likes the new reboot. Small children don't know any better, and will consume whatever their parents buy for them. That's the entire point I was trying to make.

Hey I never said it was good.

>Small children don't know any better, and will consume whatever their parents buy for them. That's the entire point I was trying to make.
Is that why ben 10s ratings are shit?

>ratings
>having anything to do with what gets consumed

Son, you are hilarious.

Things rated highly very rarely have toys that sell. When was the last time you saw "Over the Garden Wall" merch in stores, despite people fellating it all over the internet? Shit, I can't even remember seeing a ton of AtLA toys in stores, despite it being both highly rated and exceedingly popular. There were some things, but certainly not a ton, not to tune of Pokemon or Spiderman, or for a more topical and temporary flavor, Frozen. Frozen came out of nowhere, but once it got popular frozen crap FLOODED the shelves. There was never that much Avatar stuff.

>imblying

Because cartoons are for kids, user!
It's time to make the switch to anime. America clearly won't a get grip anytime soon.

>Kevin joined Ben
Acknowledge that something Kevin experienced in the past five years changed his outlook on life and made him stop being scum. That’s all they had to do. They don’t even have to say what it is, just acknowledge that it happened
>BRAND NEW ALIENS
Check the ridiculous powerlevels and stop using the most boring one, Humungasaur, all the time. Big
>Darker and Edgier, with people dying, like for real, not fake where they get better
I feel like this was okay, if they didn’t have every episode set at night that is.
>Max goes on his own adventures
Would have been neat to actually seem them
>More
Keep Vilgax as an actual rogue warlord with armies and the like, don’t have him adhere to the galactic rules like some pansy, and definitely don’t turn him into a Knockoff Jobseid
>Evil inverse Ben
Albedo was alright
>High stakes fate of the entire universe stuff
I feel like they did that pretty well, HighBreed Arc was bitchin as fuck.

But for things you didn’t mention,
>Don’t throw Kevin into the group at the beginning of the series, make him work for it,
>Give Ben a little bit of his cockiness and smarminess back, not OS levels and definitely not OV levels, but just a bit to let you know that while shit is still serious and he has matured, Ben is still Ben
>Give Gwen her tomboy aesthetic back, or at the very least Make her personality more in line with theOS and gover back her snark and banter with Ben. Their Dynamic was one of the Best parts of the OS
>Let the Plumbers be Not!X-COM instead of space cops, it works much better for a grittier tone anyways because then you can have them do morally questionable shit
>Stop trying to draw lips, you are clearly incapable of it, they look like two wolfworms painted red on someone’s face

I will be the first to call out UAF, but it’s because I appreciated what they were trying to do and hated seeing the potential being squandered.

I was more trying to list the things off the top of my head that sounded like what every lorefag such as myself would have salivated over by hearing about. Kinda like how /technically/ Legend of Korra was everything that fans of The Last Airbender wanted, but implemented in such a way that didn't make anybody happy, even if individual things on their own were done well, or at least in an acceptable manner.

I actually liked Kevin as part of the group, and did wind up shipping Gwevin, but freely admit that they rushed that whole thing in the beginning. Like you said, he needed to work for his spot on the team, not just jump in head first. He needed at least two-three "Kevin-centered" episodes dealing with the shit that happened in his past and the fact that he tried to fucking kill people when he was a kid.

Serious!Ben was a bit of a change, and one that took me a while to get over, but DESU I actually like that a bit better than the cocky little shit that he was in OS and OV. I know Feedback was something tacked on to OV to sort of "explain" the change in behavior, but it could have worked if we were given more information other than just "Something bad happened and I had to quit using the omnitrix".

What they needed to do with Vilgax was not stuff him into every single season like a fad food. Oh! Lets pair Vilgax with Albedo! Lets pair Vilgax with Diagon! Lets pair Vilgax with - no. Shut up. Stop forcing him into stupid partner ships that we all know he's just going to stab in the back anyway. Let him work as a force of nature and have our imaginations fill in the blanks as to what dastardly deeds he's off committing. Ideally he shouldn't show up in more than one arc per series, or else he needs to be the be all end all baddie of the entire thing.

>thinking low rating shows sell merch
The absolute state of your delusion
Gonna need a sauce

But ultimate alien and alien force were good and what ben 10 should be, faggot

Bud I loved UAF, It was actually the Ben 10 series I started regularly, although I have gone back and watched the OS, and while I do love the more serious tone, the Highbreeds, and the action, you have to admit, they fucked up a lot of shit. For everything they did right, there was a thorn prickingnour proverbial fingers in the form of some stupid decision or retcon or half-assed implementation.
I will still say it is better than Omniverse though.

Need more. NOW!

>THIS is supposed to be Stinkfly
great job on making the aliens LESS ALIEN, guys

that's definitely way better

>The absolute state of Man of Action

>Ultimate Alien
> Better than anything

I’m sorry user, but I just can’t talk you seriously. Omniverse had its issues, but it was worlds better than the steaming turd we got for Ultimate Alien.

Omniverse Retcons were actually a response to UAF's retcons, like the fact that in the OS Kevin was a mutant not an alien and OV restored that. Retcons and all I still prefer it over the recent reboot, at least UAF made me feel something even if that was frustration, the reboot just bores me to death.

They never actually explained Kevin in OS, that must have been WOG stuff

I assumed his backstory was the AF/UA backstory before AF/UA existed

If Kevin alien backstory was planned from the beginning, Max would had recognized him as his partner son from the beginning or at least recognize his race's powers, also the OS had plenty of unexplained mutants that had no contact with aliens, just as the magic stuff in the OS had its own paranormal explanations rather than the "everything ties to aliens" they did in UAF. The rooters arc was a far better explanation and backstory than the plumber dad out of nowhere and it even explained Kevin disposition to forgive Ben for no reason at the start of AF.

Omniverse had it’s own problems besides retcons. It was like bandaging a gaping axe wound with a dirty rag. Sure it solved some of the existing issues, but only partially, and it introduced it’s own host of problems while doing so.

Omniverse died for this

To be honest, even though it’s a total snoozefest with subpar animation, i’d still watch this over anything on CN right now. Or anything upcoming for that matter, Apple and Onion looks rather lame, Craig of the Creek looks like a lamer Clarence, but with more midlife Crisis whimsy than actually childlike behaviors, Summer Camp Island...I’d rather forget, haven’t heard much about the new megaman, but judging by the premise it’s probably going to be extremely cliche, and CN probably won’t air it anyways. It’s sad that this snoozefest might get the same following the original got, solely because everything else is just so mediocre and/or played out in comparision

Show got renewed for another season and keeps getting plenty of re-runs

Hasbro already streams some of their merchandise driven shows on the official Hasbro YouTube

>Show got renewed for another season
CN buys the first two seasons of all their shows before they air, It’s how nu-PPG got a second season despite being universally trashed. Unless the show got renewed for a third season and I just never noticed.
>keeps getting plenty of re-runs
What bizzaro universe are you from where CN doesn’t just flood the schedule with TTG and Gumball?

This week's schedule

Fuckin hell. Why the blood hell are they doing?

>6 hours out of 91
I’ll admit it’s better than I expected, but I wouldn’t really call it plenty of reruns.
Also I don’t really see children being able to watch cartoons at 10 AM unless they’re out of school sick, so it looks like Sunday is the only time people in the show’s actual target demographic will be able to see it.

>the shadow stays in the same place

>Theres hardly any art of nu gwen, it pisses me the fuck off.
Is this a request?

>shadow stays in the same place
wew

Remember, this is nuBen, and the demographic that CN is targeting this time around skews much younger. They can play it at those times because those kids aren't likely to be in school.

Speaking of bad scheduling, isn’t it funny how, not only all of nu-Ben 10’s weekday showings, but all of the Clarence and Adeventure time showings period, as well as the only reasonably timed showings of the original Teen Titans, are between the hours of 9:00 AM and 3:00 PM, which is coincidentally when most elementary and middle schoolers are either going to, at, or coming back from school, meaning that these might as well not exist for them?

Yeah, I never really got that. If you have a variety of shows, why not use the ones you have the most of to fill in the gaps in the daytime?

It makes way more sense to spam TTG in the middle of the day and save the other shows for times when kids will actually be able to watch them

Yeah, but this schedule rules out everyone from grades 1-12, meaning that the only children to see it would have to be around 4 or 5, and while Nu-Ben 10 maybe dumbed Down, I don’t think it’s THAT dumbed down that it would catch that age group.

You'd be surprised. My son is 8, and he won't watch nuBen as its "for babies", despite purchasing an Omnitrix toy this past summer when we binged the OS.

Besides, nuBen seems sanitized enough that I can't see other parents having a problem letting their 4-5 year olds watch it.

I would normally default to my usual explanation for CN’s recent actions and call it a case of gross incompetence, but considering that knowing what times kids are in school, something which is not only incredibly important for a channel like CN, where kids are their target audience, but also incredibly basic and easy to find out, I’m starting to suspect that this might be a case of intentional sabotage.

Yeah, but WHY though?

What could they possibly want to push that badly that they feel the need to destroy a show before it even leaves the gate? Like, of course it's gonna fail dude, you've only got it playing when the kids are at school. No, the kids aren't gonna buy the toys, because they haven't seen the show and they have no idea how awesome that character is.

Toy sales

To be fair, pre-production stinkfly WAS a biped, but none of the designs they submitted were getting approved, and so they had to go with the insectoid design that the designer hated and which was much harder to animate

personally, I feel like OS make the right call, as Stinkfly actually felt like an alien as opposed to Generic Fire Guy #37, but I'm not too terribly surprised that they finally changed him into a humanoid. Mostly I just wish they would have kept his color scheme, or if they had to use a blue bug, feel like they should have used Big Chill instead.

But as said, who’s going to want toys of show that they don’t even know exists?

They don't buy the toys because of the show, they buy the toys because they want the toys. The shows are more or less just glorified advertisements that double as a way to hold onto the IP forever.

While I wont deny that the show is a glorified advertisement, part of an advertisement means that the right people have to see it.

It does me no good to put an expensive LED billboard advertising luxury sports cars in the middle bumfuck Arkansas. There isn't a huge market for luxury sports cars there, and I will have wasted my money

Now, take that billboard and put it in a major city like NY, and suddenly the people who are willing and able to purchase my cars know I exist.

If they want kids to want their toys, they need to make sure that they can see the show. Especially since young kids LOVE acting out the scenes from their favorite show word for word.

That's the thing though, kids will see these shows. Television is still very standard and it's still used as a babysitter far more than people should use it. And that combined with the fact that there are only a handful of channels that cater to children, and only really a few that cater to children above the age of six especially, that means that bored kids are going to probably flip onto these channels and see these shows at least a few times.

At that point it doesn't have to even be good, they don't have to like it. They just have to kind of passively acknowledge in their heads that the concept is cool and even if the show itself is boring as all sin they're still going to remember how cool it could have been and then when they see the toys they're gonna say they want them, if only so that they can have a prop to play with when they imagine what they think the show should have been like.

The shows themselves simply have to exist on the channels they're being broadcast on for them to be effective advertisements, and for them to continue to exist they only have to get passable ratings. That means that if you're looking for a long term franchise then you're going to want to make safe business decisions and make the show as soft and inoffensive as possible while still making it just interesting enough to be watchable.

The people making and approving these shows don't want them to be good, they just want them to be good enough. Period.

But this argument isn’t about quality, it’s about location. Take a look back at and and you’ll start to see what he’s talking about. A shitty bill board may still be a billboard, but a billboard, shitty or not, in the middle of nowhere might as well not even exist. Their demographic is incredibly limited to those too young for schooling, and that’s before factoring in the fact that it has to compete with not only other Channels like Nick and Disney Junior, who have a line-up of already established and parent trusted shows, but with other methods of virtual babysitting, like IPads.

Of course some toddlers will catch it and may watch it, but to expect that it would gain a sizable enough audience and generate enough demand for toys to justify the funds putting into making both the show and the merchandise, when it is put an inacessable spot and competing against other children’s shows on a medium that is currently dying, is hoping for a Hail Mary.

Not to mention that 11 year old gwen has fine chest design on omniverse. Maybe it was taken from gwenporn

Ok, I didn't know the topic of the thread had moved onto air schedules. My bad, sometimes I just shoot out a reply without bothering to read the whole thread under the assumption that the topic will stay fixed on the OP topic.

No. She's early bloomer. her breasts are fine for her age. Yes it does look a little bigger but i think it fits for her frame i guess

>To be fair, pre-production stinkfly WAS a biped, but none of the designs they submitted were getting approved, and so they had to go with the insectoid design that the designer hated and which was much harder to animate

That designer needs to be slapped for having terrible taste, non-Bipedal Stinkfly was Bitchin as fuck.

>shadow suspended in the air

This is bad even for Nu-CN standards.

With shit like this I’m honestly surprised they even went through the effort of making his clothes wobble in the air. Were it not for that, it would literally look like someone had just clicked and dragged over the screen.

Vilgax looks cooler in the reboot

Ehh...he looks decent I’ll give him that but I wouldn’t really say better.

The mouth is a little silly

>Putting most of your variety on weekdays in time slots where kids would still be in school and would never see them
>Wasting Saturday, the perfect do nothing, weekend day where it is neither a school day nor school night and a perfect time to show off your whole line up, on only two shows, three if you count those two Teen Titans episodes playing at ungodly hours.
There’s driving the ship aground, and then there’s actively scuttling it.

Why not draw your own then?

...

...

>Stinkfly and Wildvine are bipeds.
weird thing is they could have avoided those issues if they had just used Big Chill and Swampfire instead(or maybe Snare-Oh)

also this reboot mostly exists because Ben 10 is stupidly popular internationally, like it's always been fairly popular in the US, but not quite as much

at least when it comes to the Rooters arc retcons, those were in general pretty mediocre, if we hadn't gotten a reboot, I wouldn't have minded them retconning the retcon

>snoozefest might get the same following the original got

I doubt it. They might have people who watch it now because its better than everything else on the market, but you're not going to have people ten-fifteen years down the line discussing it and writing fanfiction for it. They might remember the show they used to watch as kids and look it up, but when they do, they'll see that there were other series in the franchise and watch those too. And they'll be blown the fuck away by those, leaving this hot mess in the dust.

>nuBen
>better than TTG
LOL

TTG ran dry a while ago, now it just gets by on keeping it’s hatewatchers hatewatching, and making DCEU references to appeal to Sup Forums memesters.

Omniverse died because of CN's shitty scheduling. My grandpa and me were only able to hear about new episodes because of us recording the series.

One cute turn deserves another.

No, Omniverse was /murdered/ by CNs shitty scheduling. This was done on purpose.

If I were a little kid I honestly wouldn't watch it because on some level I'd find the fact that the designs were made all 'babyish' patronising and would try to seek out original Ben 10 episodes just to brag about how I've watched the REAL Ben 10. Kids don't like being directly pandered to like that because they're all desperate to prove that they're big boys and big girls. No kid actually LIKES or will admit to liking watching something purposely made kid friendly, and I'm going to assume that most of their audience has seen, at the very least, Omniverse so they know that it's lamer now.

The whole "let's dumb down the animation style and content" thing doesn't work at all and I really wish people both in the animation industry and in general would figure that out already.

>get up for school
>end up watching TTG if you're lucky to wake up earlier enough, but most likely end up watching Unikitty
>get home from a long day at school
>forced to watch fucking We Bare Bears or Unikitty

Everyone's complaining about TTG but fucking Unikitty and We Bare Bears are the cancers here, at least TTG is actually slightly funny and kids like it.

>assume that most of their audience has seen, at the very least, Omniverse
>omniverse aired from 2012-2014
>nuBen is now targeting the preschool demographic

Coincidence? I think not. By targeting it to a much younger audience, the likelihood that their current viewers have seen any other Ben 10 series goes WAY down. No current five to eight year old was watching Omniverse, not unless they had somebody else in their house that also liked to watch it. They were much more likely to be watching Paw Patrol, or Transformers Rescue Bots, or fucking Spongebob than they were to watch OV

What is the appeal of WBB? It's so boring

It is, because TTG is fucking shit you drooling fanatic