his entire gimmick is having good side and bad side

> his entire gimmick is having good side and bad side
> does only bad things
What is even a point?

He became a vigilante during forever evil

He is not supposed to be always doing bad things but hack writers forget that.

...

...

> does only bad things
but that's wrong. He does sometimes good things too

Allow me to do a brief storytime so I can show you how Two-Face is supposed to be like when he's written properly.
It's from an issue called "Fifty-Fifty" from Batman & Robin Adventures #22

I'm only storytiming the scenes with Harvey in them.
Basically, Harvey Dent is a character w

I love how they use him in Brave and the Bold as someone who can be both the villain and the guest hero.

Most cartoons, video games, movies, etc. only show him exclusively as a criminal.

Harvey Dent is a character trapped between Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral, who flips a coin so he can be True Neutral.

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

Who cares about cartoons, video games, movies?

...

...

...

...

Because those are typically small snapshots of a character and they're going to give people what they're most familiar with.

Long form storytelling like comics (of which Two-Face has been a part of for over half a century at this point) allows for a much wider variety of stories.

Absolute madman.

Wow that comic. I thought the Adult Swim skit where TwoFace flipped a coin for every decision was satire.

Guess not

And the worst part is that the coin is the only coping mechanism he can use other than just being fully cured.
Without the coin, he is trapped in deadlock, unable to choose any course of action. It's why he gets so desperate when the coin gets taken away from him, or why he was so shattered and harmless in Arkham Asylum: A Serious House On A Serious Earth (the cards gave him more choices than he could deal with)

Doesn't mean they can't go in-depth with the character. Certain stories in B:TAS did, while others just relegated him as a gimmick crime lord.

Also, Brave and the Bold actually was more accurate to his duality, with the teaser having him act as both the hero and the villain, and his second appearance had him as a replacement Batman, while Bruce was brainwashed into thinking he was really Matches Malone, and the villain of the episode.

This is pretty realistic. If you rely on chance for making decisions, you kinda lose will to decide things properly.
Source: personal experience.

I didn't think it was supposed to be a good/bad thing, I thought it was more like id/ego.

It's more about chance. One alternate action can change the entire outcome of a situation.

This is actually alot more threatening than it seems. When you're there as a an innocent civilian while Two-Face is committing the crime, you don't know what result his coin flip gave him, so you have no idea if he's going to kill you all or do something nasty or not.

>the white man's biggest fear is being half nigger
really makes you think

I would like a noir-esque Batman film where they use that idea with Two Face and The Judge/Reaper/Phantasm. His games of chance get to a point that good and evil become the game, not chance. Either he becomes a vigilante, or he does crime as Two Face, and whether or not he murders as either depends on the flip. It'd make a good excuse to showcase some of Batman's enemies who haven't been in a movie yet, like Firefly, Scarface, and Mad Hatter.

He looks real happy there.

Yeah I really like this scene.
Two-Face should always slavishly follow the outcome of the coin but this doesn't mean he has to like it.
Moments like these really help to humanize the character.

The henchman getting his hopes up that he'll get to commit a crime soon is hilarious

Yeah, I always hate when they have scenes where he cheats the coin.
You know the type. Hes driving a car while having a gun pointed at the person in the back seats head. Coin is heads up so he doesnt shoot him, but then crashes the car to kill him.

"It ain't the coin that decides, it's you."

That was what pissed me off the most about how he was depicted in Batman Forever.
I already hate it when writers have him do evil regardles of the outcome, like "Heads I shoot you, Tails I cripple every bone in your body" (even TAS, for as great as it was, was guilty of this sometimes) but having him keep throwing the coin in hopes of getting the result he wants are just completely backwards to the character (and sadly there's comics that have him do this as well)

Bump

>Smashes the fucking telephone
>GIVE IT BACK
kek

In a way, it shows that he's recovering from his insanity somewhat. While he's not entirely rejecting the notion that his actions are up to chance, he is working against it in his own way by favoring one outcome over another.

>other than just being fully cured
Actually that didn't work out too well for him.

>having him keep throwing the coin in hopes of getting the result he wants
There's a saying- When you can't decide, flip a coin. Regardless of the outcome, while it's in the air, you'll know what you really want.

See: No man's land

I'm now imagining a Two-face who incorporates a full Tarot deck as his decision making process instead of a coin.
notsureifwant.jpg

I wonder if he has ever had a gucher? You know if the thousand to one chance where the coin lands upright or in between a crack and stuck there, never knowing what the true side is?

wasnt there an episode in 90s BTAS when batman pickpocketed a coin weighted on one side of the edge with lead so it would never land on the side?

Even as a kid I thought that didnt really make much sense.

Yeah, I hated that scene in Forever where he keeps on flipping the coin until it says he's allowed to kill Bruce Wayne.

I liked how they did it in The Dark Knight. "He isn't so lucky, though." "Who?" "Your driver."

He's allowed to use technicalities if he wants. He just can't outright cheat.

you clearly dont read comics, cant say im surprised

Then read comics you stupid secondary fuck.

It would only last one story, but it would be neat to see.
Especially if the writer actually understands Tarot.

Can we take a moment to appreciate that OG Miller Bats comforted Harvey?

I'm kind of over the psychotic Batman from Dark Knight Strikes Again onwards.

Fucking hell Miller is amazing

Miller made the stakes way too high in everything else, he should have done Justic League comics instead of Batman ones. All Star was a gag.

Oh jeez. I remembered Batman as flying away in that scene. My mistake, appreciating now.

>I'm kind of over the psychotic Batman from Dark Knight Strikes Again onwards.
I dunno I'd say Bruce is actually pretty justified in his actions in DKSA overall, after all he was fighting against a Luthor/Brainiac team that was planning on global genocide(and came awfully close to succeeding too), not to mention a superpowered psycho who had been trained by him

What after happened the Forever Evil Villain's Month book where he flipped the coin and shot himself?

>He's allowed to use technicalities if he wants. He just can't outright cheat.
There are all kinds of ways to frame the coin toss which should allow you to frame your version of Two-Face. But what you usually get is some version of "lol random" which is the absolutely worst version. Two-Face and the Riddler have the simplist motifs and seem to be the hardest ones to write well.
>No man's land
Dixon has a dedicated hate-base on Sup Forums. It's real hard to bring up cataclysm/NML without it devolving into shitposting so let me be succinct; The arc Dixon had planned out for Two-Face got cut apart when Didio pushed him out. The character and his relationships with Renee Montoya, Bullock and to a lesser extent Gordon still haven't recovered from the absolute reaming Rucka gave him in Gotham Central. Sucks man.

GOAT Two Face Story?

this shows Harvey will only get worse, he has suicidal tendencies and i honestly thinks the coin will come up bad for him and i think he wants it to

>hack writers forget that.
they dont know

Meh. Not among Wagner's bests...

lmao

Remember that time he was Not-Joker?

I love it when comics do this gimmick of showing only one side of his face in the panel depending if he's doing good or evil.

No? I thought it was good. I like when Harvey hates his appearance
>YOU CAN'T LIVE A NORMAL LIFE YOU'RE A FREAK! A FREAK!
>But I am not a monster...
Brutal

Gol dang, Harvey hasn't been burned like that since the trial.

Laws of random probability user, even if a coin was flipped 100 times and came up tails every time would still be random. ;-)

Huh. I would have said that Rucka on Two Face during NML is a good example of the half and half.

>> his entire gimmick is having good side and bad side

In some depictions I've seen, it seems to implied that two face can controlls the outcome if the flip, even if he does it subconsciously. When he grabs the coin out of the air, he can feel if the scratched side is against his palm or his fingers. Then depending in the outcome he wants, he either just opens his hand to show the result or he puts it on top of his other hand, flipping it.

I absolutely love Matt Wagner's work in general and while this was a good story (Legends of the Dark Knight as a whole was great), it could have been much better if it didn't involve Two-Face.
Writing Two-Face as a mostly evil man whose motivation is simple vanity over his scarred appearence is the laziest way to write the character and Matt Wagner made a similar blunder with Hugo Strange (defining the character over his issues with his short height).
I feel like this could have been a fantastic story for Penguin or Killer Croc, characters who are much more strongly defined by their issues with being "freaks".

You mean The Big Burn ? Because that wasn't part of Forever Evil. In fact I'm pretty sure it was Forever Evil that retconned the end of that story without any explanation

It's happened several times.
The most recent example I can think of was at the finale to The Big Burn

Sometimes I think his gimmick was absorbed for other characters. For example Harley Quinn some few times had 2 personalities and people found that more interesting and funny.

I like two-face but I feel they have abandoned the character a little, maybe the drama involved in having a good and a bad personality is too old. The symbol or that nowadays is The Lord of the rings

>I think his gimmick was absorbed for other characters
Joker definitely ripped off the "we are two sides of the same being" aspect hard from Two-Face and, thanks to things like The Killing Joke, he's pretty much officially usurped Harvey as Batman's main shadow, even though Harvey has always been (and still is) much closer to Batman as a character.
Two-Face used to be the primary tragic villain of the Rogues gallery, but thanks to character assassination in the comics, Two-Face not getting much attention in other media, and TAS, Mr.Freeze has taken that role and nowadays it seems that not many people even remember what Harvey Dent is supposed to be a tragic character and not fully evil. The Dark Knight helped to rectify this a bit, but it wasn't enough.

The "Bruce's childhood friend" thing has also been taken by several other characters like Black Mask and Hush.
And virtually all of the Rogues have, or at some point had, split personalities too. And Two-Face is not a very charismatic or normie-friendly character compared to options like Joker or Harley Quinn (to be honest a lot of classic Batman villains haven't had shit in comics recently).
I think he also lost a lot of status as a villain to the point fans brush him off as "just a gangster", and his lack of superpowers or absurd plot armor makes him really not at all a threat to the Batgod (and again, The Dark Knight, Batman Forever and the Arkham games depicting him as merely a sideshow to other villains only reinforced this).

I've said this before but it really sucks for Two-Face that he is a comic book character.
Not only is his suffering never going to end because of status quo, but all of his best qualities have been cannibalized and made more marketeable for other characters, while he gets reduced to a prop in most recent stories that even remember to include him.

>beats the shit out of a telephone booth and lets himself be captured by gangsters just to get the quarter back
absolute madman

based

> Tony Hendra

coinface

I think Joker absorbed a big part of two-face, one of the best stories with two-face was The Long Halloween and it was in part recycled for The Dark Knight, the film used Joker instead of Harvey and was really a key film, wonderful but reduced two-face role. I really like TDK and Joker there but indeed Harvey lost as a character considering the source material.

>Two-Face is not a very charismatic or normie-friendly character
How different would this be nowadays if Two-Face had been in the 66 show ?

Dunno. How popular are Egghead, the Bookworm, and King Tut?

has the coin ever landed on it's edge? I'd like to see that.

t. Aboutfaces livejournal

It wasn't simple vanity though, it was the idea that Harvey believed that his physical monstrosity is what made him monstrous as a man, it caused his psychosis (which he's not wrong about). I don't think that's vanity, I think it's an extra layer of insanity. Wagner's only mistake was making him a bit too evil, but that's not even strictly true because a lot of the carnies agreed with him, even if he did kidnap some of them.

Good stuff.

...

That's why I really like the Long Halloween version of him, he's more like an anti-hero who genuinely wants to help Gotham in the end.
The animated series also did a great job with him, I do like how the New Adventures shows him losing his original principles from years of mental deterioration while having that third Judge personality.

Reminder that the shitty DTV movie adaptation removed Batman's response for no fucking reason.

He couldn’t even kill himself without getting retconned back to life must suck to be a popular villain

I love how they used the rusted penny look.

There was also that one time a guy threw away Harvey's coin cause "now it can't make you do evil" and Two-face was like"FOOL IT WAS MAKING ME DO GOOD" and went on a goddamn rampage.

It didn't remove it, it just changed it. In the movie he says "you and me both".

>I would have said that Rucka on Two Face during NML is a good example of the half and half.
I've told the story on here a couple of times before but basically Didio and Dixon had a screaming match in which Dixon called Batwoman a 'gimmick' character (ostensibly referring to her being a dyke) and Didio had Rucka write the second arc of Gotham Central wherein Renee is outed as gay by a now homophobic Two-Face. Ruining Dixon's planned romance/redemption/tragedy arc with Renee and using Two-Face as a stand in to take a pot shot at 'crazy right-wing homophobe' Dixon.

Okay, Sup Forums, what kind of story would you like to write about Two-Face?
Hardmode: it has to make him prominent and popular character again.

Holy shit, why are they all such petty dicks?

sauce: your ass.

Did Kate Batwoman even exist when Montoya got turned into a gay? Pretty sure the answer is no.

>"Two Gothams"
>Two-Face gets a sleek and hip modern redesign and takes over the city during the time when No Man's Land was taking place
>Splits the city into two halves divided by a giant wall
>The police, ordinary citizens and Batfamily are all kept on one side, criminals are on the other, which is referred to as "the scarlands"
>Batman has to survive with little to no equipment as it was all destroyed in.the quake, and even has to use the golden age cowl with the wider ears