Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

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everyone.

not so much as wrong as there views were incompatible with world they existed in.

>Supports Truman for dropping the bomb on Hiroshima, insisting that it was the right thing to do despite the tragic loss of innocents because millions more would have died from continued war than the thousands lost when the cities were bombed.
>Despises Ozymandias for sacrificing all of New York to prevent an impending nuclear holocaust between Russia and US by giving them a falsified common enemy to unite against

Was Rorschach just a hypocrite or is there an actual difference between what Truman and Ozymandias did?

>keep quiet about the true nature of the attack, allowing the world to have a generation or so of peace before conflict arises and nuclear war is once again imminent
>reveal to the world that an American businessman bombed his own country with a psychic weapon in some mad plot to achieve world peace, Russians don't launch their bombs because they're too busy laughing at us
Its like 50/50

Nite Owl for not returning Rorschach's feelings for him.

His shifting Rorschach mask symbolizes his shifting black and white perspective on the world. Yes, he's a hypocrite in this instance. Not that this implies that Ozy did nothing wrong, of course.

both were wrong in a sense

However, the only one in the entire comic that was wrong in a completely childish, stupid and autistic way is Rorschach, nobody should side with him, he's there to point out the flaws of his way of thinking,

>when the brainlet posts
Him supporting Truman was back when he was in 6th grade. In Watchmen he's middle aged. By your logic literally everyone is a gigantic hypocrite

Rorschach didn't know what to think. He hated what Ozymandius did not only because of his morals told him to do so, but because it made him realize that some of the beliefs he held we wrong, including some of the reasons he hated his mother. The real only reason he loved Truman was so much was because he hated his mother so much and he heard that his father liked Truman. That's pretty much the only reason.

I don't really think any of their actions matter, isn't that the point? Veidt already had everything sorted out. Our "heroes" never stood a chance at stopping the plot, just being there to witness the truth.

A side note, with The Comedian being alive, I suppose it wouldn't be hard to imagine Manhattan bringing back Kovacs for whatever reason.

Ozy was a prick. Rorschach was just being emotional.

One of the good parts of the film was Nite Owl bearing witness to Rorschach's death and having SOME reaction rather than none at all.

/thread

This. If only he confessed his undying love and snogger him on the spot, the dramatic suicide could have been avoided.

One of them saved the entire world, even if it is just a band aid. One of them spent half the week in which the story takes place beating up innocent people and the other half in jail.

If you had a friend like Rorsharch irl youd be fucking relieved to hear that he died.

That is the one thing about the comic I absolutely hate.

Like fuck Dan, I know you're a loser who doesn't deserve a good friend like Walter, but could you keep it in your pants for a few fucking hours?

Jesus.

Truman's method was honest, straight forward. He sent a clear and transparent message to Japan in that 'we have the means to annihilate you, do not make use it'. There was no subterfuge, the peace obtained at the cost of those peoples' lives has never been in jeopardy.

Ozy's respective sacrifice is based entirely on deceit. The threat he created that he exterminated all of New York to make seem realistic is all a fabrication, and the peace that the US/Russia now have are based entirely on that fabrication. Lies eventually come to light, sooner or later, and when it does the fallout will be far worse than the situation they were already in and ALL of those dead New Yorkers will have ultimately had died for nothing. Ozy's plan can only be sustained through repeatedly introducing these psychic monstrosities and continually tossing more innocents to slaughter in the interest of maintaining his falsified threat lest the US/Russia begin to suspect it doesn't even exist too, which means only more and more people will die for the sake of this solution instead of finding a better one.

Rorschach was in the right to call Ozy out on his stupid plan. Hiroshima has lasting results that'll never be undone because while tragic, it was free from deceit. Ozy's plan is a house of cards that'll only make itself bigger and bigger until it can no longer sustain itself and crash down.

Fun how the one with more mental problems was the most human.

Holding the fuck up.

Hollis Mason did nothing wrong. Taking a fickle fanboy for a substitute instead of a hand raised pick was is only mistake and he could not have known how Dan would turn out with his promising start, so even there it's not on him.

>beating up innocent people
Rorschach never beat up anyone innocent; at most he just threatened them

Truman didn't try to claim that URSS who nuked Jpan instead as a revenge for the last war or whatever like Ozy did

>moore constantly derides fans for identifying for rorschach because "he's crazy and smelly like u lmao"
>only person to have a normal reaction to 8 million people getting killed

That's simply not true. Sure, Alan Moore wrote Rorschach as a strawman, but he completely failed to make the character unlikable or his beliefs unattractive. Furthermore, he was in the right, which Alan Moore couldn't understand as a crazy Marxist.
This user pretty much gets it.

Well he did break that one guy's finger for being a meany pants even though he was obviously no threat.

Right and wrong are subjective. Both are willing to sacrifice the whole world for their principles.

to be fair his plan could work if the truth was only shown several decades after the even when Russia and US no longer have a reason to fight

Ozy probably knew that he was going to be discovered and in a way or another he would be forever remembered in history just like his Idol Alexander the Great

Here's an actual example of hypocrisy
>That's simply not true.
Goes on to make one remark against something
>Sure, Alan Moore wrote Rorschach as a strawman
Immediately commits it

Walter wasn't a strawman or Moore wouldn't have bothered injecting so many explanations for how he turned out. Walter was a hyperbole of the philosophy, like many of the characters, not something to be attacked for an argument or he'd never have let him "win" the psych evaluation where Walter's hard facts about society force Long to re-evaluate his own ambiguous thinking. The chapter would have just painted him as crazy, wrong and stupid and been the end of it but every element illustrates he's more aware, intelligent and perceptive than he even lets on.
But I guess to fit your narrative Moore must have just accidentally somehow wrote all that stuff up. Whoops!

Moore's a leftie loon, but he's far more professional than you give him credit for. Rorschach being likeable was quite likely intentional and his position tenable, and the fact that people are still arguing who was right 30 decades right proves just how supreme Watchmen is

Underrated.

And both Nite Owl and Jon aren't willing to do anything unless they are pressured by others. Hm.

*3 decades

How would you describe each Minutemen's world view?

>Nite Owl
Idealism

>Comedian
Cynicism

>Manhattan
Nihilism

>Ozymandias
Authoritarianism

>Rorschach
Facism

>Silk Spectre
I honestly don't remember her role that much, maybe just another idealist?

If ozy was capable of making squids and super weapons then why didn't he just sacrifice his reputation to become a villain to the world so dangerous that it would force the nations to unify against him? Its esentially the same as his original plan just that it can't be undone by some diary of a hobo.

>rorschach
>fascism
Based retard.
Rorschach's so objectivist he would make Ayn Rand cry

With DC's efforts to dredge its corpse out of the graveyard every so often I think it's safe to say Watchmen discussions will be around in the 2200s.

Then the threat dies with him, Ozymandias isn't immortal. He needed a threat that would persist long after his death, natural or otherwise, to keep the nations of the world united.

Ego

Almost all of those are wrong.

>why didn't he just sacrifice his reputation to become a villain
As you're probably sussing it's implied through illustration to be equal parts ego, what with all his Alexander the Great and Pharaoh worship, equal parts said ego bullshitting his psyche into honestly believing he needs to be around as a role model to guide the world after the incident.

Unless he teleports in more squids every ten years or so people are going to start to wonder where these squids actually went, and they'll be back at each other's throats. Hence
>nothing ever ends, Adrian

He is trying, that's more of what you can say about most of this board.

Hooded Justice was a closet nazist but he was not racist to people irl, he was like a Sup Forums user.

It was shown in the comic for a reason, retard

Yes, to show the contrast of Rorschach as a child and Rorschach now.
Unless you really think we should condemn him as a hypocrite for opinions he had in the 6th grade

... Because it's literally what the character is about? Trying to create something ever-lasting, beyond his own mortal self. Ozymandias wants to ensure world peace forever (nukes aren't going anywhere), even when he's no longer around. But that's why he's Ozymandias:

>Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
>Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
>Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
>The lone and level sands stretch far away.

And like Manhattan implies, it won't work out for him.

>Unless he teleports in more squids every ten years or so people are going to start to wonder where these squids actually went
I understand people probing Adrian's plan, but I'm not sure how people keep tripping over this one thing.

Adrian already designed their backstory to be such that the aliens are far off somewhere humans cannot attain conventional access or knowledge of, but the aliens are aware of human activity, ergo they're always watching even if silent. But the most important part is that the first attempt at teleportation invasion going horribly wrong is why the aliens are supposedly holding off since they'd rather not commit mass suicide attempting to colonize another planet. In short the squids haven't gone anywhere, in an inverted allusion to the line: they're who watch the watchmen forcing the watchmen to be ever vigilante.

I believe it's implied somewhere that Adrian also implanted it in the psychic fallout that the people working on the teleportation tech were brainwashed by the aliens, setting up the impression that anyone who ever questions the existence of the aliens, the truth of the invasion or attempts to start up international conflicts again is simply a mind controlled traitor to humanity as a whole. It's the new Red Scare basically.

He supported Truman at the very beginning of the story when he was a full-grown adult, it wasn't 'just' an admiration he outgrew as a child.

btfo with the FIRST FUCKING PAGE

how can user ever recover

>Adrian already designed their backstory to be such that the aliens are far off somewhere humans cannot attain conventional access or knowledge of, but the aliens are aware of human activity, ergo they're always watching even if silent. But the most important part is that the first attempt at teleportation invasion going horribly wrong is why the aliens are supposedly holding off since they'd rather not commit mass suicide attempting to colonize another planet. In short the squids haven't gone anywhere, in an inverted allusion to the line: they're who watch the watchmen forcing the watchmen to be ever vigilante.
This makes sort of sense but could you post the panels or text where this is stated? I can't remember this part

While Ozymandias has always tried to be percieved as a filantropist, businessman and as an overally nice guy. Dr. Manhattan's power has been a topic for quite some time. Furthermore in the time of the Cold War his power was one of the forces capable of sustaining the fright stalemate, in which USSR and USA was held. People would just fail to be afraid of someone as (illusively) lovable as Ozy, and why would you risk that having a walking entity of whom everyone is already scared on your disposal? Additionally everyone woud start to wonder why doesn't Manhattan just stop Ozy. After all, he's still just a man.

better question is how did some dude outhink an omnipotent entity

It's explained. Tachyon particles clouded up his visions of the future

So how come the only comic book Sup Forums has ever read was Watchmen?

Tachyon particles released by said dude.

What makes you say that?

Firstly, Jon isn't omnipotent, secondly, I think you meant omniscient, thirdly, Jon isn't omniscient.
Lastly Veidt's research into Jon's personal and professional life allowed him to engineer several measures of sabotage to keep him distracted.

He depressed the shit out of him.

Because I think Sup Forums is one person.

Because Sup Forums never has discussion of other comic books like they do with Watchmen.

How come Manhattan couldn’t foresee Ozy coming up with the idea to use tachyon particles?

Maybe other comic books don't give us that much to talk about. Maybe that's why Watchmen is considered literature.

Maybe because watchmen is widely considered to be the best comic book ever written? It follows that it would be more discussed than super exciting never seen before crossover event #314™

These. I've never read any superhero comic other than Watchmen, and yet it's one of my favorite things ever. It's like NGE compared to other mecha-animes. It transcends the genre.

Manhattan is a puppet that can see the strings. He wouldn't have acted if he had known because he doesn't think he can act.

>implying slavs have reasoning skills or are capable of long term peace
Are you mental? The second that the lie unravels, which is heavily implied to be sooner rather than later based on the ending, the Russians would double down. After all, it would be an American at the heart of the conspiracy. The fact that it was Americans that actually suffered to bring the conspiracy about would be irrelevant.

it's more like Watchmen is the only comic Sup Forums has ever read with anything even approaching depth

based on real world though the squid might've bought enough time so the USSR might still collapse

>projecting
While there are certainly comics with more gravitas and depth than Watchmen, Watchmen is the comic where the writing and art are synthesized together to an incredible degree. The fact that you could re-read it a dozen times, and see a new or different easter egg is evidence of its staying power. Hell, Fearful Symmetry alone deserves an Eisner for its namesake

Watchmen is great, no question. But to claim it's the only comic Sup Forums discusses because it's the best or other comics don't have a lot to talk about just shows you've only read bog-standard capeshit outside of Watchmen.

There are hundreds of comics out there with the same or greater detail and synthesis of writing and art, but Sup Forums hasn't read them because they don't involve superheroes.

I should really be doing other things, but best I can find is the allusion here that the shell companies were part of a diversion
watchmen.wikia.com/wiki/Institute_for_Extraspatial_Studies
and Veidt mentioning the designs of an Alien World engineered into the squid.

>But to claim it's the only comic Sup Forums discusses because....other comics don't have a lot to talk
He didn't say that, he in fact said
>there are certainly comics with more gravitas and depth than Watchmen

You however said this
>There are hundreds of comics out there with the same or greater detail and synthesis of writing and art
Without providing any subsequent examples, and by examples I don't just mean namedropping a list, I mean examples of "detail and synthesis of writing and art" accompanying the namedrops and how they're "greater". After all as read and critical as you are you should have it within you to lead by example.

I'm not going to waste time and effort only to receive "nuh uh" in response