Judas

So what does Sup Forums think of Judas besides the fact that’s he a dirty betrayer?

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americanthinker.com/articles/2007/10/do_oral_traditions_lie_behind.html
markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/gospelsreliable-more.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=YJJ2Jh47RP0
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Art looks like shit. Cool concept though.

>Art looks like shit
What, not house style enough for you?

Much too clean for for my taste.

>Judas was the good guy all along!

Sounds like cheap provocation meant to stir up sales through contraversy around Easter.

I really like Rebelkas art style works well in some parts, also I love the Satanic keikeru

>Well it’s arguing the fact that if everything a part of gods plan wasn’t Judas just fucked over

Mind typing that again.

Well it’s arguing the fact that if everything is just a part of gods big plan wasn’t Judas just someone that got fucked over

No? Judas made his choice. Peter also betrayed Christ but Judas also chose to kill himself out of shame rather than repent. The book is just projecting a modern victimhood narrative over the Bible.

Loveness is an underrated writer and I wish him success

>The book is just projecting a modern victimhood narrative over the Bible.
Well yeah it’s being partly narrated by Satan trying to convince Judas he’s right of course he’ll sound like a victim

That's pretty decent art.
What's the twist? looks interesting.

>Judas made his choice
How else was Jesus supposed to save all of humanity if Judas didn't betray him?

I like the Priest of his

Someone else would have done it. Like I said, Peter deneied him to save himself, and it' not like the Caiaphas wouldn't have found some excuse to frame him eventually.

Good job with the censoring

>Someone else would have done it
Ok, lets name that guy Johnny Tsunami.

God made Johnny Tsunami betray Jesus.

>What is Free Will

Whatever happened to that comic about Cain?

God didn't make anyone do anything. People by nature are treacherous garbage.

>God made Johnny Tsunami betray Jesus.
Blasphemy Tsunami was infallible and a living embodiment of the Holu spirit!

>by nature
and who made nature

>Free will with an all knowing god playing cosmic chess with reality

Nature as it was, or nature as it is now, corrupted by original sin?

And whose fault is that?

>censoring

Is funny to me

Or so he'd have you believe, but that boy is third generation soulmancer. Do not trust him, or his blood line.

Adam and Eve's for lying about eating the fruit.

You know, it’s been a huge theological point of “why god do dis” whole putting the trees there in the first place.

Like scattering tide pods in a nursery or something.

So you're saying that the Devil made Jesus save all of humanity

I always assumed it was just something that be in a place like paradise I mean a tree that literally has fruits of knowledge why would you want some crazy mystic shit like that in your garden

Let's be real, we use the "Adam and Eve are like retarded babies" meme a lot.
But they're not, they're fucking adults who were given literal paradise and told not to do one thing and they fucked it up because they listened to a creature that effectively they were above over the being that gave them everything because.

Away with you’re trickery less I call upon the power of Disney Channel original movies!

The trees existed for a reason, and the fruit was meant to be eaten eventually. Adam and Eve were barely a few days old at that point. You don't teach a toddler how to drive.

The Incarnation would have happened anyway, even if the crucifixion did not.

Even now you post a wicked harlot who has been touched by demons and a washed up alcoholic liberal.
That Channel and all their Original Movies are marked by evil.

Yes he’s fallen like Solomon but that doesn’t make his acts any less virtuous the divines protection is still here and can be seen by those who look!

How can you have taste this bad?

You’ve got bad taste my friend

Samefag harder, faggot

I liked this story better when it was done by hippies prancing around in the desert.

this will end with three things happening...

1:) lucifer is lying to judas
2:) judas will help with a "fight man fight" speech to jesus and jesus will escape hell
3:) judas goes to heaven or remains in hell but leads people out or something

dude what if like judas wasnt bad XD

Well he killed himself, so he obviously felt bad about it.
Better than the goat cartoon atleast.

I don't understand how anybody with even a parting glance or understanding of Bible narrative can think of Judas Iscariot as a traitor when he literally only did what Jesus and God had ordained and knew he was going to do. This was all fucking planned, this was all according to keikaku.
And it's fucking bizarre and almost amusing because this is something even people who like to stylize themselves as authorities on the bible and even people at the time were writing shit about Judas and how fucking evil he was, how much he suffered, how horrible his death was, and how he's in hell suffering the most at the bottom, it's, like, do you not fucking get it?

Christ wasn't there to just live forever and baby humanity: he was God incarnated into a mortal form to experience the entirety of mortal life so as to truly understand, atone for sin, himself experience suffering, and then go up with greater context. God specifically doesn't want to baby humanity because he wants them to mature naturally and of their own accord so they posses a naturally earned awareness and context.... That's my take from it at least.

But they didn't have KNOWLEDGE. They were ignorant. It's like telling a small kid to not do something without explaining why and then going "fucking retard, I TOLD YOU NOT TO DO IT!" If you specifically deny something without a reason you inevitably start to become interested in doing what you were told not to do.

New to this thread. You're a faggot.

Foreknowledge is not the same as predestination. Judas acted on his own accord and failed to repend the way Peter did after his betrayal.

Why didn't god just not make people shitty in the first place?

He did that’s what Original sin does to people

Knowledge of good and evil, Not knowledge of not biting the hand that feeds you to listen to a god damn lizard and certainly die.

>He did
No he didn't. If he had Adam and Eve wouldn't have eaten the fruit in the first place.

According to Gospel of Judas he only did what Jesus asked him to do.

>according to a forgery written centuries after the Gospels

That's just non-canon fanfiction you faggot.

>What is free will?

God is a DICK

And the original gospels written decades after the fact aren't fanfiction to a certain degree?

Hebrew culture (as well as Greek and many others) had a stronger emphasis on memorization than we do now.

Free will doesn't account for genetic (or divine) predisposition. If God had just made Eve smarter or something she would have been more likely to say no to the serpent.

>memorization
Well, that's really fucking unreliable.

Free will applies to everyone no matter their genes even if your scherzo gods not gonna interfere because of mental illness

Smart people can be talked into acting against their own self-interest, user.

Because you live in a different cultural context and have no idea of what such a culture would be like.

americanthinker.com/articles/2007/10/do_oral_traditions_lie_behind.html

So people need to be perfect before free will & responsibility becomes a thing?

>Smart people can be talked into acting against their own self-interest, user.
And he completely misses the point.
>Free will applies to everyone no matter their genes
I didn't say anything otherwise but a born sociopath is far more likely to commit murder than a neurotypical. Surely you would say free will applies to both but one is starting with the odds stack against them. Why then doesn't god simply stack the cards in our favor instead?

This is basically my interpretation, but I read a lot of the unincluded texts, so take it with a grain of salt:

Adam and Eve were basically created without knowing anything as they were perfect, divine, factory-setting beings.
God had that tree in there because he had originally planned for Adam and Eve to eat of it's fruit when they had fully matured and were ready to know about good and evil. God gave Adam and Eve free will because he wanted more or less to groom them into being Gods: make man in his image, etc.
God started out small though, he needed to know his creation would listen to him when he told them not to do something, so he got Satan (Satan is not Lucifer, Satan is the product tester, Lucifer is the adversary) to go down and test them.
He told them don't eat the fruit, Satan went down and told them, "eat the fruit" and the absolute madmen ate the fucking fruit.
God was fucking pissed because this kind of ruined everything, but not wanting to admit defeat made a big show to save face, packed up all the magical shit, and went about trying to salvage Adam and Eve now that they were quite possibly the worst combinations of every aspect: imperfect, aware of good and evil, free-willed, but now mortal.

Old Testament God is fallible, is the point. Obviously he wouldn't admit that, he has plans, he's a planner, but he IS fallible, anybody who says otherwise is making excuses.

Why did god not just kill satan?

>Because you live in a different cultural context and have no idea of what such a culture would be like.
Have you ever played a game of telephone?

>telephone analogy

Every fucking time.

markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/gospelsreliable-more.htm

You act like neurotypical people are incapable of making mistakes.

No I did not say that at all.

Watch this. God knew the Fall was going to happen, but had to allow it for the sake of allowing man to exercise his free will.

youtube.com/watch?v=YJJ2Jh47RP0

>Why then doesn't god simply stack the cards in our favor instead?
Because he’s not a zookeeper he’s god making everyone equal goes against free will and some people can help society progress because of natural advantages life isn’t supposed to be fair

Then why is it so hard to believe that Adam and Eve were fallible?

Why don't you actually pull something specific from out of there to strengthen your argument which you haven't made.

I guess he has a stigma against killing angels and he literally sent him to hell to suffer Satan’s doomed to fight a battle he’ll never win

>making everyone equal goes against free will
How?

Mostly because that story is only an allegory for human nature. My line of questioning really only concerns god's manifestation of human nature since he is the one who made it.

Nigger, what do you want? The short amount of time between the events and the writing of the Gospels, combined with the strength of Hebrew Oral culture and the minute amounts of variations between manuscripts mans it's extremely unlikely that the Gospels were distorted.

>Its not cosmic chess
>Is cosmic Sims

Also another reason I guessed is because killing angels is different than just killing people destroying angels is worse because that’s it for them since they’re already at the highest state they can achieve so death would be the end for them

How is it now how could anything happen if everyone was the same factory level of product no difference nothing to love just bland copy paste bots

They don't have to be the same but we don't need so many of those people who drive slow in the fast lane. Maybe if more people were a tad nicer the world would be a better place to live and not so many of us would get fucked in hell.

Original sin wasnt about eating some fruit (that is allegorical anyways), but it was about act of disobedience and rebellion against God.
They already knew what was good and evil because God told them that doing that was a big no-no.
And can we please stop referring pre-fall Adam and Eve as immature imbeciles? Entire creation was created fro sakes of them and entire mankind to rule. God brought animals forth to Adam so that he would name them. They weren't immature.

Maturity is relative, especially on a cosmic scale. They weren't idots, but they were only a few days old.

religious storys about shirtless buff men? its just like my korean comics

seriously tho, it reminds me of priest just on the art, probably because of the weird shirtless dudes

Same reason why He doesn't destroy Damned Humans. He created everything to exist, He created everything out of pure love, so he wont destroy any of His immortal creations (Humans and Angels) Due to His love towards them.

I'd prefer non-existence to eternal torture. Pass that on to the G-man when you get up there.

The torture is itself hatred of God and negative response to God's love.

meant for this

I'm not gonna do it justice because this is hard to explain, but: Hell isn't actually a place where people and angels and demons are tortured, no one is tortured in Hell. The idea you're tortured or in great pain or punished forever is a metaphor (taken literally in later usages and then pushed to the extreme with dantes inferno) used to describe the state of souls who're wicked, evil, sinful, and without or ignorant of the acceptance and approval of God and in that way, it should be understand that Heaven and Hell are a state of the 'soul'.
Fallen Angels aren't "IN" Hell, they're just bummed and angry and torturing themselves due to how butthurt they are about everything and that is the cause of their eternal suffering. Lucifer is "IN" Hell because he can't see past his own pride (1st born after all) and that is causing him suffering.

You don't literally go to a pit and then get pocked by some dudes in footie pajamas with pitch forks.

I'm at least 99% certain that God can't actually permanently destroy anything he's created. He can seal things, he can change it's form, but he can't make things cease to exist.

>I'm not gonna do it justice because this is hard to explain, but: Hell isn't actually a place where people and angels and demons are tortured, no one is tortured in Hell.
The "Hell is just separation from god" nonsense?
Jesus himself uses a parable to describe gods punishment of sinners in the "wicked servant"- in which the stand-in for god outright hands the wicked servant to the torturers.

he's a whiny, entitled betrayer

>1st born after all
its a meme. He was Highest amongst Angels, but never that. First Born is always applied to Jesus and the reason He has this title (which would be weird considering that he is the only begotten one anyways) is because Humans are also considered to be sons of God and adopted in family due to Jesus, being "Second Adam"

>I'm at least 99% certain that God can't actually permanently destroy anything he's created. He can seal things, he can change it's form, but he can't make things cease to exist.
He can, but He wont.

Do you even know what parable means?

First of all, that's a parable, so your argument automatically becomes invalid
Second of all, More parabeles descriebe being casted out in outer darkness with "weepng and gnashing of teeth" (and no, its not because of pain, but because of hatered and wrath. real life example is in Acts 17, when sanhedrin members gnashed teeth out of wrath and same way it is described in psalms.).

>You don't literally go to a pit and then get pocked by some dudes in footie pajamas with pitch forks.
No, you are put into a pit with the eternal fire of destruction, just like how in Zoroastrianism, you end up in the abyss of flames of Angra Mainyu(or Ahriman), who's very name means destructive.
Hell in the bible is a ripoff from this.

This thread is going to turn into an even bigger argument than the last thread

at least storytime it OP before it gets any worse

First of all, Lake of fire in the bible is reference to gehennaSecond of all, surprise, Revelations is cryptic and was never understood literally, Its one of the most mysterious books.
And third, you are completely ignorant about Zoroastrian teachings, there was never >le eternal fire of destruction. Zoroastrianism thought about universal salvation, that everyone, even Ahriman, would reconcile with his brother, eventually. Everyone, wicked, Daevas and Ahriman would return to Ahriman. Not to mention that Daruzax was never >le eternal fire. Fire was symbol of Ahura Mazda.

Sure thing samefag

Free Will is an extremely irrelevant concept when God gets pissy when people don't believe in him. Why does God even care if people don't believe in him or love him enough anyways?

He sounds like an extremely arrogant and petty being for someone who's the all knowing and all powerful creator of the universe.

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