Are the "Killing Joke" film and comic any good?

Looking online the film seems to have gotten many bad reviews and reviewers are saying the comic doesn't hold up.

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Is Batgirl ground zero for feminist bitching (on the DC front at least)?

The last half (the actual Killing Joke part) of the movie was good. And the Killing Joke comic was good, too.

They were mad they still kept in the scene where joker broke and raped batgirl, it's like the feminists who watched this don't even read comic books

The comic was a doublesized special issue that effectively summarizes the self-destructive and selfish dichotomy between Batman and the Joker.

However bad things happen to the Gordons and DC editorial made a big deal of making the fallout from it stick.

The Killing Joke was fine as an Elseworlds thing off in its own bubble, but the complaints get more valid when its gets crammed into the main continuity.

And that article's title is technically correct. Giving a Batgirl a prequel story of her own in the movie was a fine idea but it was written so fucking poorly that it somehow made it even worse.

>and raped batgirl

Barbara wasn't raped. Joker took pictures while she spasmed from the bullet in her spine.

>hasn't actually read the comic
>whines about muh problematic
These people should be gassed

>gets mad at feminists for not reading comics
>display ignorance of comic content

I thought she was raped I was going off memory

anything done to a girl counts as rape, user.

The online discourse about Batgirl is rather stupid because it pretends that Batgirl was this always popular character that DC just decided to take away. Do you know how long before she appeared between the set up and her last appearance? TWO DAMN YEARS. Before then a couple scant appearances in back ups. Hell she lived compared to Jason Todd at the time.

It was not before Oracle that she did anything of real note and became a DC mainstay. Hell the Killing Joke became a springboard for her. While it was not intentional without the Killing Joke she would not be relevant.

The book is good. But the first part of the movie that has nothing to do with The Killing Joke comic is just another Bruce Timm attempt at making Batman/Batgirl a thing.
>The Killing Joke was fine as an Elseworlds thing off in its own bubble
The Killing Joke was never intended to be an Elseworlds.

It wasn't mean to be in continuity.

I thought Moore intended it to be non-canon like TDKR.

Why the fuck would Batgirl be in a Killing Joke movie. Didn't Killing Joke set up the whole crippled spine-become oracle thing.

Well she shot without consent wasn't she?

Set up? No, it didn't set up Oracle.

Female opinions don't count

> took pictures
That alone can get you convicted of rape these days.

I think TKJ is overrated, but that opinion doesn't stem from what occurs to Barbara Gordon.

I kinda just agree with Moore's opinion on it: it isn't really saying anything.

>let's give The Killing Joke credit for Oracle.
>even though Kim Yale and John ostrander are the one responsible.

>The online discourse about Batgirl is rather stupid because it pretends that Batgirl was this always popular character that DC just decided to take away.
That's wrong though, it's always been about using female characters as nothing but as props to the hero.

Stop being such a catty bitch.

>I kinda just agree with Moore's opinion on it: it isn't really saying anything.

This. That kind of "we're not so different you and I" faux-philosophical horseshit had well and truly run its course as a meaningful statement years before TKJ ever came out.

Also it's the nexus point for all the wankery about Joker being Batman's "dark reflection" when that only became a factor afterwords and everyone started ripping it off. It basically created the thing it wanted to comment on.

Yeah and Suicide Squad was about using minor characters no one was using. Yeah she was used for angst but then again she wasn't doing anything.

She was not a solo star.

She was not a side kick.

There was no clamor for Batgirl to return to the Batman titles.

She got so much traction out a story where she a minor character. Comics are a collaborative medium and without that story you would not have Oracle or her popularity.

>Yeah and Suicide Squad was about using minor characters no one was using.
And? Suicide squad is still the comic that should be given credit for Oracle and not the killing joke.

Sure and it does. But if the Killing Joke didn't happen would they have used her at all?

>Yeah she was used for angst but then again she wasn't doing anything.
So we cripple her? It's fucking bullshit that we keep giving The Killing Joke for credit for the work of others.

Yeah, cause you said it yourself that she was a minor character and suicide squad was meant for minor characters.

You guys are rather bitter

Fuck you retard. How about you actually read the comics rather than bitching about muh SJWs like most of Sup Forums does

>Literally pad the fucking movie out to give Babs a bigger role
>OMG THEY FAILED BATGIRL IN LIKE SO MANY WAYS!!

Yeah people other people put in the work. Still it's not one minor story as a spring board spurned other writers to use the characters. Oh wait this is comics there are tons of examples of that. Look I'm not saying Killing Joke made Oracle. I'm just saying without it no one would have used Barbara as much and she would have fade away with no development from anyone else. Face it the Barbara everyone loved was Oracle, and without the Killing Joke story, Kim Yale would probably not have suggested her.

the comic book disappointed me. Batman walks like a old man slowly after the joker
compare to the actually old man in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns.
and despite crippling batgirl and torting her and gordon it ends with Batman laughing happy with the joker over the reader
The Movie added before the comic plot a filler straw feminist plot with a mobster stalker sexist then have batman do her. lol

>Look I'm not saying Killing Joke made Oracle
You kinda are.
>I'm just saying without it no one would have used Barbara as much and she would have fade away with no development from anyone else.
That's counter-intuitive thinking. You think people would remeber her for her minor role as a victim in the Killing Joke which makes no sense.
>Kim Yale would probably not have suggested her.
Yeah she would have because Kim Yale was a batgirl fan.

If anything I think the reverse is true and that people only remeber The Killing Joke because of Barbara getting shot.

She's right though. In theory it was a good idea to give Babs a prologue story in order to have what happens to her matter. The problem is that said prologue was fucking shite.

It's like most writers can't help themselves making every character into some kind of accessory/cocksleeve for Batman. And to be perfectly fair, it ain't just the ladies who suffer this problem, it's just more obvious with them.

Honestly, she became so over time for some reason.

Literal unwanted penetration, I don't see how that couldn't be rape.

Killing Joke is a shitty comic

The comic absolutely holds up but the "film" butchered the story and added shit that never happened.

The Killing Joke comic was never about Barbra.

The only good thing about Killing Joke was the original inker, when the comic was remade with normal colors everything that made the comic somewhat good fell flat. Basically Joker shoots bans and then nothing really happens. I bought a copy for 10 dollars and wanted my money back. It’s hyped up because it’s usually “baby’s first joker story,” but really it’s garbage.

Nah, they botched the delivery on some of Joker's grand speeches, and those scenes are the only reason anyone ever cared about this stupid story.

Movie is trash but the comic is pretty good, although it is one of the most overrated comics ever. It's very simple and very good but it's not one of the best ever or anything. I never liked Batgirl so I couldn't give two fucks about her or what it did to her or how the movie failed.

>give Babs a bigger role
Does it though? It gives her more screen time but it doesn't do much to build her up as a charecter. If anything shifting the focus onto her relationship with Bruce makes her even more of a damsel.

Dude if you think anyone is happy at the TKJ you need to go back and read it again

The only good thing to come out of TKJ was Babs becoming Oracle. ... Which DC reverted because we can't have characters doing anything interesting, no no. Heaven fucking forbid.

>Batman sell
>but they put Batman in everything they sell
Really make you think don't it?

Good comic. Awful movie.

Shut the fuck up Boco

Yes sir...

Comic is overrated and kind of mediocre but it's still better than a lot of shit on the market
Haven't watched the movie

>Barbara retroactively becomes popular.
>Put her into the role nobody cared about and shun the characters people actually like.
>Casual "collectors" eat it up and buy copies because they're told they're supposed to.

whoever was directing mark during the last part should be fucking fired and having it be a fight while he's giving his poorly delivered speech I mean come on He didn't looked pissed while asking why bats didn't like the joke
youtube.com/watch?v=NC16orUje4M

Seriously, people gave so little of a shit about Babs as Batgirl, editorial let her get shot because it didn't matter. It was Oracle that got folks invested in the character, when she became a power player, the superhero community's Shadow Broker. She actually had a strong narrative role while in the chair, but as Batgirl, she's honestly just another street cape, and not a terribly engaging one at that.

I recall reading a review of it that pointed out everything wrong in it somewhat.

Basically the Killing joke was too short to be made into an actual movie so they addedin filler. It was really bad filler that turned Batman into a pedophile bangng one of his longest and only friend's daughter behind his back. The whole filler section was just inexplicable.


The other problem is that it was TOO faithful an adaptation to the killing joke since comic book pages and movies are a different medium.
There was a scene somewhere where they veered off script that showed how absolutely brilliant it would have been if they made the actual filler related to the book while being willing to make slight adjustments. They just copied Moore panel for panel and were too afraid to adjust for it's new medium.

They would have been better off just calling Moore on the phone and asking him about making some slight adjustments as a consultant or trying to get a feel off of the giant novel sized manuscripts he sends in when he writes a comic.
Remove the OC Batgirl parts and it's a good movie that could have been a GOAT Batman movie. Since the important part wasn't as great as it could have been the blame went to the bad parts of the movie.

I liked the song
youtube.com/watch?v=wfyDp5WGuFQ

>They would have been better off just calling Moore on the phone and asking him about making some slight adjustments as a consultant
He would literally use his magic beliefs cast a curse over them

And? It's not like the maddened results would be any worse than what they made.

>Muh oracle
Oracle was ironically more of a batman lackey than Batgirl and your shadow-broker was turning to shit in the end. Face it oraclefag, Batgirl has been more popular in the past 3 years than Oracle has been for the last two decades.

>Killing Joke

I just want this meme saga to finally fucking die once and for all. It's done.

This is a bigger sin than turning the first half into a glorified fanfic.

Joker never raped batgirl in the movie or comic.

Everyone knows Joker's dick don't work

The prequel story damaged Barbara's character so hard that you actually kind of feel she deserves the bullet by the time it comes

Let me just ask this: Is Barbara's butt and Gordon's benis in the ilm?

Fuck off Rich.