Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

Bruce. In his extremely idiotic point of view, he would rather save a pedophile rapist than help his friends in any way or fashion.

Fuck that stupid manchild.

Careful with that edge.

What's the context?

But it is true. Batman would rather spare a rapist than save his friends from a rapist. Hawkman himself said so and Batman did not denied.

Fucking newfags...

Brad Meltzer

Certain members of the JLA had secretely been having Zatanna mindwipe any villain that learned any hero's secret identity for years. But after Dr. Light raped the wife of Elongated Man, they decided to go a step further and completely rewire his brain to turn him into a harmless buffoon. Batman showed up and realized what was going on, and went ballistic, so these Leaguers decided to make Batman forget the past 10 minutes for the good of the JLA.

I really don't see how that is a bad thing. Why is Batman being so triggered by this?

How the fuck is that remotely edgy?

Because mommy/daddy issues and the fact that he needs everybody to abide by his shitty codes and standards.

Anyone who swears and disagrees with you is edgy.

The whole book.

I think the main thing is that like (and I don't remember the details of Identity Crisis) Dr. Light isn't really punished for raping Sue? I mean, they wipe his mind and set him on his way to be a buffoon Titans antagonist.
Wiping a person's mind isn't really a good way to deal with finding out identities or RAPE.
I'm not saying Batman is correct, or his reasons for disagreeing with them are, but the other Leaguers were being VERY stupid.

Now, as I said here , this whole comic was ridiculously stupid and I can't accept it. I say Fuck Meltzer and disregard the whole thing, which has basically already happened.

>uses a range weapon
>still runs torwards his enemy.
The worlds best strategist was, I'd say.

It's bad because they were acting like judge, jury and executioner behind everybody's back. Nevermind the fact that Light deserved it, it was the fact that mere members of the JLA, the most respectable and trustworthy group of heroes were acting like met thugs just because of the greater good and just imagine what would have happened if that shit would have come out to the public? The JLA would have been destroyed just because of a few that thought playing God with the villains memories and free-will was a good idea.

The thing that pissed off Bruce the most was the broken trust that he received back, sure he didn't deny that he would have saved Light of that. If he can't trust the JLA, the holders of Justice and the type of people that one should look up to then who should he trust?. In that POV Bruce was right in creating Brother Eye

You don't see how brainwashing a person is a bad thing? How, Superheroes brainwashing is a bad thing? Did you just blow in from the Squadron Supreme or something?

>In that POV Bruce was right in creating Brother Eye

Holy hypocrisy, Batman.

A pedophile rapist? No. I don't.

But mindwiping him practically lets him off the hook.

This is non-canon in Rebirth continuity, right?

And turns him into a puppy compared to what he used to be.

I say it was a good thing.

To be fair, being a super-villain with a long rap sheet that keeps escaping from prison thus getting his sentence increased every time, he was never going to get legally released anyway. Adding some more years to what is already practically a life sentence doesn't make much of a difference.

The weirdest thing is that the series acted like making villains forget secret identities was a morally questionable thing that needed to be kept secret too. Yeah, rewiring Dr.Light's brain is iffy, but I don't see any problem in making Felix Faust and the Wizard forget your real names to protect your loved ones.

I think it's more than just erase the memories of bad guys. The very fact that the league escalated from "remove identities info" to "you didn't raped anyone and you are a party clown now" to "ho oh, the very person that brought us together and isn't an evil person at all, isn't acting to my ideologies and is being an autistic manchild let me wipe his mind real quick" is why Batman is so mad about. In his mind, Superheroes aren't suppose to be persuaded into applying punishment by themselves ,or they'll eventually find themselves corrupted with power. Just the same way Batman doesn't allow himself to kill anyone, no matter if killing 1 crazy clown have no negative impact in anyone else.

The funny thing is that in Cry for Justice it was revealed that Batman with the help of the Martian Manhunter turned Prometheus into a literal mental retard because he thought he was too dangerous, even though he has no powers and without his helmet he's useless. Oh, and they also hid it from their fellow members, nobody realized that the replacement Prometheus that popped up later on wasn't the same Prometheus.
Fucking hypocrite.

I liked the story but it's inconsistent with Batman's character. He's fine with crippling people and shit, he just won't kill.

This.

Remember the central motivation of the killer in this is to get her husband back, when said husband wanted to get back together before the killings started.

>It's bad because they were acting like judge, jury and executioner behind everybody's back.
They are all vigilantes. Superheroes are all about taking the law in your hand.

That page makes it look like it was entirely J'onn's decision.

In all fairness, the League especially has rules about how far capes can go with that to expressly avoid shadow government like shit.

The fault lies in the narrative, which poorly explores the transition from "identity protection" which EVERY superhero does to "weird B-team rehabilitation through brainwashing experiment." which it's legit for Batman to have a problem with. There could be a story in there somewhere, but Metzer tells it completely through flashback despite it being more important than the actual story of finding Sue Dibney's killer.

Batman still went along with it.

>hurr durr killing murderers is bad
>but mindwiping them and completely changing their personality isn't
>and neither is mindwiping anyone who might reveal or secrets

Fucking hypocrites. All of this could have been avoided if they had the balls to actually kill those mass-murdering scumbags to begin with, or at the very least shoot them into the Phantom Zone or something, instead of just putting them in revolving doors like Arkham.

Don't forget how the combined intellect of Batman, Mr.Terrific, and Dr.Midnite failed to notice the true cause of Death and how the body was burned by a flamethrower.

I still don't see the problem with using magic rehabilitate violent rapist. I do see the problem with letting him still be a supervillain.

Also, Jean somehow didn't leave a single trace of evidence. No DNA, no gas, no cloth particles from her heavy coat, nothing.

Batman isn't even the one doing it in that image.

Well narratively speaking the problem is that a cheat like that demands to snap back on the hero, which gave us Dr. Rape for a while.

Letting him be a super-villain was needed because the whole twist was done backwards, "Why did Dr. Light become such a jobber so quickly? Oh here's the dark secret!"

What I'm saying is you're not wrong and that's why the twist was such a bad idea.

Yeah, but he let it happen, unlike with Dr. Light where he went nuts and pulled out a Batarang while lunging towards Zatanna.

>I'm not saying Batman is correct

He was, but the story was shit still
>batman is the problem
>not the writer

This is why batman haters are absolute morons. And for the record, mental traps, are not the same thing, and are comparable with jail. Brainwash and changing the personality of some3one is comparable with murder.

She's a real smart criminal, she was able to throw everyone off her trail that wasn't at all hinted at by orchestrating the Death of Tim drake's dad and Captain Boomerang.
Perfect plan.

That's what I think of when I think of Jean Loring, master criminal. Hiring C-Listers to do her work for her, however, DOES fit with her assets and contacts as a lawyer with an in to the super-community, and they should've stuck with that.

How the fuck did Jean even know that Tim Drake was Robin? Tim protected his identity quite fiercely, he quit Young Justice because he didn't want anyone to know his secret. He briefly stopped being Batman's partner because he told Oracle his secret without consulting Tim. Not to mention, I think that Jean divorced Ray long before Tim even became Robin.

Considering the fact that most of the people involved in the story have never actually been members of the Justice League, probably not.

Almost every character who has these much morals is a hypocrite. They would care more about their integrity and morals than the not suffering of countless.

If I was Jean loring, Criminal mastermind of our time, I would probably just say "yes Ray Palmer I do want to try us again." And just not stage supervillain attacks.

The league, if they have to erase their memories for fear of payback, it means they know the villain is inevitably going to escape, which apparently they don't mind or consider it a pressing concern as long as he dones't specifically target anybody they care about.
If they were so worried about what villains may do, they should have instead put their efforts in building a decent prison.

You are dumb. Getting a phone call and arranging a hit on someone's children is much easier than actually escaping prison.

>batman is the problem
>not the writer
Ignoring if what you say is right or not, you could deny any moment as part of his actual character with this.
>This piece of shitty written character isn't a piece of shit. It is the writer who did that.

>Batarang while lunging towards Zatanna.
Bruce's mind Rape was brutal for me.

>Bruce. In his extremely idiotic point of view, he would rather save a pedophile rapist than help his friends in any way or fashion.
>defending brain washing and mind wiping

Batman was right and was once again proved right about how amateurs with powers need to be kept in check.

These people are not amateurs.

Batman would never agree to wipe anyone’s mind. No compromises. And when he arrived while it was happening, he was furious.He would never allow that secret to be kept, partially because it would make it impossible for Dr Light to be charged with the crime.

...

>No compromises
That's dumb and also untrue. Batman is not Rorschach.

The Justice League Covers Up A Rape (By Mind-Wiping Batman)., introducing a rape storyline into a superhero comic involving well-known, established characters is never a decision that should be made lightly. But in Identity Crisis, DC went one step further into ill-advised territory by having the Justice League decide that the best way to deal with this issue was to use the magical powers of the lesser-known League member, Zatanna, to erase his mind. Instead of, you know, taking him to prison or something.

Light is also later revealled to be a serial rapist,

>In that POV Bruce was right in creating Brother Eye
Right, then when Ted Kord stumbled on someone stealing it Bruce lied to him about it, resulting in Ted blundering in without support and getting killed.
Say what you will about New 52, but at least it led to the end of Identity Crisis getting it's stink on everything.

>it's wrong to brainwash and mind wipe scum that kills, tortures and rapes.
Are people retarded?

Bruce. His form of justice is fucking retarded. All it does is cause more victims like Sue. There are some villains who deserve to die. But the JL was equally as retarded in this scenario. They should have just killed Light instead of fucking with his mind.

, how bad the rape side-plot made the heroes look. They decided to mess with the mind of another human being in order to change their behaviour. Atom, Zatanna and Flash (Barry Allen) for and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Green Arrow and Black Canary against) they all went along with the descision afterwards. It made them all look bad.

, a crime is still a crime no matter how justified you think it is (how else do you think terrorism happens?) so dealing with a criminal in a way that would, in any other scenario, be a crime its self, then sorry, you lose the moral high-ground on that one. Especially when you start doing the same thing to anyone who disagrees with you. Oh yeah, did I mention that they mind wiped Batman as well because he didn't agree with what they were doing? Because they damn well did. If they hadn't crossed the line before, this is where Zatanna went all in.

Well yeah, because the LAST time he tried to do something about it, he got brainwashed. Bruce doesn't like getting brainwashed. Nobody likes getting brainwashed.

Also. Manhunter clearly states it was temporary, as opposed to the permanent alterations they were making to Dr. Light. It feels like you're just being obtuse in order to piss on Batman.

Samefag.

It used mind rape as a side plot and made the heroes look almost as bad as the villains.bats didn’t know about the vote, but arrived afterwords and saw the result, and freaked out. So they either wipe bats mind to keep him from in effect taking them out. Because of these 2 decisions, Zatanna leaves the JLA. Matter of fact, only the flash stays in the team who wasn’t part of the wipe vote. The rest leave. Plus we see that catwoman was wiped to stop being a criminal.

This was the Batman crisis in a nutshell. Why he only really trusts Superman. Why he is the moral compass of the DC universe. So now we have a actual place to point out when you wonder why Bats, monitors the hero’s. That one rape, opens up a dozen different stories that involve 50 different hero/villians. I think it was well used.

But Bruce did brainwashing too so you're full of shit. Way I see it erasing memories is as equal as changing behavior because no matter what it's tampering with another person's mind.

>clearly states it was temporary
Prometheus was turned into a drooling retard who couldn't function and just sat in a chair in his Blackgate prison cell all day for almost two years in-universe. The only reason he went back to normal is that MM was killed during Final Crisis, "temporary" my ass.

>crime is still a crime no matter how justified
No, context matters. Do you think a minor theft is the same as a brutal rape? If I lose the "moral high ground" for punishing and unrepentant rapist, the the high ground can go fuck itself.

Batman regularly breaks people's arms and legs which fucking hurts and seriously can change your life. If this guy is arguing that the League who use their powers and skills to engage in super brawls and crossed any political borders is good then what's wrong with trying to rehabilitate violent and dangerous behavior.

Okay, so J'onn either flaked out, or lied through his teeth. Neither of which is Bruce's fault or responsibility.

>brutal rape?
What is the right punishment for rapists?
Dead ?
Zatanna Covers Up a Rape.

Brainwashing is not rehabilitation.

Bruce Mind Rape - Let's Re-Name It,

>This piece of shitty written character isn't a piece of shit. It is the writer who did that.
cmon son, this would be fair criticism if this was a singular character written by a single author with the vision of what the character should be
but this is comic books, dozens of people writing a character who obviously dont have the same mental image of what they should be, not even bringing continuity into it

You make a very interesting point. My oppinion is yes, I think it could be considered as rape. Although rape is reffered to as a violation in a the sexual sense specifically. So I think the more appropriate word to use would be 'violate' which is a less specific word that could range from sexual, to breach of privacy to morality.

She didn't cover up a rape, She is part of the justice league and she met out justice. She cut out the violent sexual predator from a person's mind and pretty much healed the victim of the any trauma. It was misguided but so is just roughing him before sending him to prison where it's repeatedly shows only makes sexual predators worse and having the victim go through the trauma of living the rape over again and years of therapy?

He wiped people's memories, that the same thing as brainwashing--tampering with another person's mind.

Scan ?

>What is the right punishment for rapists?
Usually castration. And if the rape was particularly brutal, then death. Also she didn't "cover up" anything. The JL doesn't condone killing criminals so they did the next best thing. It was a dumb idea, but it's better than what Batman does. All he does is rough them up and send thing to prison where they inevitably escape and claim more victims. Batman is a garbage hero and vigilante. Because of his obsession with not killing, he ironically does the most harm to innocents out of his entire rougues gallery.

You fucker it happened in Identity crisis.

Samfag.Light is also later revealled to be a serial rapist, thanks Zatanna.

No.

Rape is not about sex, it is about Power. Someone exerting their power & dominance over you in the most intruisve and devastating way possible.

In this way you could term telepathy similar to rape.

>samefag
Nah brah not this time. We just both see the hypocrisy of trying to claim Batman has the moral high ground.

Yeah it did.

Oh god you're a moralfag trying to say telepathy is problematic.

If the dangerous criminals can casually get phone inside prison and make a call, the prison sucks.
Also is not like villains only ever hold a grudge against capes, they might also decide to go against policemen, reporters or anyone else who doens't have a secret identity, and yet only when they are the ones at risk they bother to do something,

Watch out alien with super strength and endurance, sorceress with infinite power, space cop with near infinite power and two world class martial artists, that guy has a pointy piece of metal and he's ANGRY!

brainwashing should always be off limits
bruce was right

Samfag.Just like sex, you have to have consent to read someones mind rightfully.

to protect people by stopping ongoing crimes, not to carry out punishments

Zatanna sucks If a telepath could fight crime in a more direct fashion:Force a rapist or murderer to turn himself in and give DNA evidence

Batman. Batman's always wrong when it comes to the big picture. Sure he's good at beating up mentally ill clowns, but when it comes to protecting the future of the planet he's the last guy you want calling the shots.

He wasn't "revealed" to be a serial rapist but devolved into one. The problem isn't even that he's a serial rapist but a poorly written one with no charm or personality to him.
Dr.Psycho is a serial rapist too but I like him because he's fucking awesome and Peter Dinklage should play him in the next wonder woman film this is just fact.

>Sure he's good at beating up mentally ill clowns
Is he, though? He's been doing it for 75 years and the problem never went away.

Heroes shouldn't be proactive future planners, ever. Anything beyond them stopping an ongoing crime/disaster leads to fuckups.

Are you seriously complaining that the serial rapist isn't likable enough, dude?

That's fucking dumb. Do you stab your eardrums too because you might be invading a person's privacy by hearing them talk.

Yes, of course I am. He's a rapist but that doesn't mean he can't be entertaining.