Spider tanks

How do you think spider tanks will revolutionize military powers?

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>How do you think spider tanks will revolutionize military powers?

You have to invent them first.

>Shoot it's fragile little shopping cart wheel
>Spider tank crippled and possibly immobalized
Can't nips do anything right

I don't think they'll really be viable in active combat. Tachikomas in secret anti-terrorist ops maybe but in full on combat those legs make them way too easy to immobilize.

>>Shoot it's fragile little shopping cart wheel
>>Spider tank crippled and possibly immobalized

Well, to be fair, that would take a hell of a shot.

>one of the most annoying aspect of Gits
>no combat value minus road legal and meat shield
>annoying as fuck all
tachikomas are fucking gay, the helicopters are shit and the bigger spider tanks dont know dick about sloped armour and have a fuckhuge commanders hatch

plotdeviceonly/10

robot dogs will come first

They are only viable as Anti Terror/Crime and Occupation Force for Urban Areas. They lack speed in difficult Terrain or toughness for conventional Warfare.

>I don't think they'll really be viable in active combat. Tachikomas in secret anti-terrorist ops maybe but in full on combat those legs make them way too easy to immobilize.
The larger military spider tank shown in the original movie would actually be very viable for heavy support roles.

It boost morale

>would actually be very viable for heavy support roles.
You mean like real Support Roles? Like in indirect Fire with Artillery? Maybe.

But the Tank shown in the Movie can be done more sturdy without spider legs with the tech at that time .

I didn't think anyone could have such shit opinions

But you proved me wrong

I dunno man, other than crouching over a car, what benefit would have spidey legs have over something else? If it was going up against something other than small arms, capable of blowing a leg off and immobilizing it, it just doesn't seem viable IRL.

They won't, because large vehicles are disadvantaged by legs. The AI inside them, however, will greatly reduce human involvement in war. Especially if there is a highly mobile, man-sized robot to house them in.

>the /m/ posters on /k/ are now overflowing onto Sup Forums

I guess Hiroshima Nagasaki was right, we're running out of internet space.

>Like in indirect Fire with Artillery?
Yes, and also it could act as intelligence on the field due to the many sensors built into it, not to mention this would be an automated drone, which means it does not need an operator on the location.

Having one of these with their heavy machineguns and missile/grenade lauchers can help troops control strategic points in urban warfare, and can easily be used on open field combat for artillery purposes.

>But the Tank shown in the Movie can be done more sturdy without spider legs with the tech at that time .
Not sure if the spider legs in this case are fragile at all, spider drones currently used in the military are capable of moving despite losing several legs, and it allows movement through rough terrain.

>I dunno man, other than crouching over a car, what benefit would have spidey legs have over something else?
Climbing rough terrain, which conventional tanks would not be able to. It could easily have a supporting role in tank warfare. Sure there would be much more powerfull conventional tanks, but the ability to move through rough terrain would give these a very strategic role in the field.

>If it was going up against something other than small arms, capable of blowing a leg off and immobilizing it, it just doesn't seem viable IRL.
Read the post above, I don't think blowing a single leg would be enough to stop it.

>MFW Ill never have a cute as fuck tachikoma of my own

>arise cover
get the fuck out

They won't

Pic related is what will make a difference, not goddamn kawaii uguu~ spider tanks.

they wont because they're crazy inefficient.

drink bleach weebengine

or 2 or 3 normal shots.

Which one of you faggots took this out of the discord?

>Climbing rough terrain, which conventional tanks would not be able to.
No I get this. That is a huge advantage of spider tanks for sure and the only reason why anyone would build them. I'm just saying I feel like the advantages don't make up for the disadvantages. If you're going for recon over rough terrain, send a smaller one like a Tachikoma sized one. As far as heavy combat out in the field, requiring one the size of in the movie, one without spider legs will have less weakpoints.

To reiterate: smaller, support/recon ""tanks"" like the Tachikomas, sure. Actual heavy combat roles? I feel like spider legs are massive weakpoints.

>I don't think blowing a single leg would be enough to stop it.
Agreed, but they seem like glaring weakpoints to me.

PLUS WHAT IF THE TANK'S DESIGNER GOES CRAZY AND HIJACKS ONE user!? CHECKMATE!

the idea of a spider tank is only viable if the vertical mobility of the design allows for uses in non-traditional tank warfare landscapces where air support and/or danger close is a problem
I.E. a much more specialized piece of hardware that people would still throw money at if proven to be viable support greater than light calvary units(humvees?)

Let me explain their heavy support function...

They walk on their legs, but the top part can rotate 360 degrees and inclinate up and down, which makes it a walking weapons plataform.

It has 2 heavy machine guns for anti-infantry and light vehicules purposes. It has grenade and missile lauchers for crowd control and anti-armor. You could easily attach one of those modern anti-air laser weapons the usa military already uses, that would make them literal anti-air plataforms that can fucking walk on their own and deploy through rough terrain.

Surely you can see the versatility in them? You can literally equip it to deal with nearly any sort of enemy, while maintaining their maneurvability.

Drones would make better attack robots.

>Legs
So, lets make it a mechanical nightmare and worse than treads in every possible way?

>So, lets make it a mechanical nightmare and worse than treads in every possible way?
Now you are getting it. It would be perfect for warfare.

>anti-air laser weapons the usa military already uses
Those are on ships. They use a ludicrous amount of power, not something that can be generated on a light tank-sized vehicle.

For the amount of cost involved with developing this shit, there is not enough benefit. Current air defense systems and support vehicles do the job just as good for far less money.

>Those are on ships. They use a ludicrous amount of power, not something that can be generated on a light tank-sized vehicle.
With the technology of the setting it is in? It would.

>Current air defense systems and support vehicles do the job just as good for far less money.
And yet the usa keeps replacing the systems for ever more expensive and maintanance costly systems, your argument is?

I quickly cobbled something together to visualize it.
The Time we could make spider tanks work, the weaponry will be so potent to easily penetrate everything worthwhile.

No, I'm not talking other technology you can strap onto other forms of tanks. I'm talking the viability of legs on a weapons platform.

Legs are glaring weak points, despite the advantage of yes, being able to traverse rougher terrain.

Let's say I know the enemy has spider tanks. Guess what I'm going to do to the rough terrain advantage it has? Put mines there so I can blow a leg or two off and completely immobilize it.

>With the technology of the setting it is in? It would.
Ok, if your argument is that spider tanks are a good idea in a scifi anime universe with magic technology, then sure. They're not a good idea in the real world.

>yet the usa keeps replacing the systems for ever more expensive and maintanance costly systems
More effective systems based on the same winning concept. They don't just put legs on things because they think it looks cool you fucking weeb.

>Put mines there so I can blow a leg or two off and completely immobilize it.
>Put sensors on spider tank to detect mine and simply shoot the machinegun at a hill to clear the mines.
Nope, that would not work, any other idea?

The one below would be good on normal terrain, but the spider legs would be good at rough terrain, why not make both?

Of course, joints and legs on something that shouldn't have joints and legs will inevitably lead to its abrupt failure.

>what is suppression fire

>but the spider legs would be good at rough terrain
Tracks are already good on rough terrain. What, you think tanks will be climbing mountains with their legs? Have fun putting 15 tons on each leg and sinking into the ground on every step.

This.

More joints just meands more points for failure. The simplest designs are almost always the best and most efficient. Stuff like spider tanks are just to look cool in animation and such.

>They're not a good idea in the real world.
Well, for smaller drones with a gun turret on it it sure is viable, im sure it would be viable if we had enough technology to make it move in a nimble manner.

Man, the movie looks 10x better than the SAC...sad. They went redesign crazy.

It could still walk you dipshit.

>>Put sensors on spider tank to detect mine
Ahahaha, you don't actually know how military technology works, do you?

If you come under .50 bmg fire you will get legs rekt and wont be able to fix them in the field.


Simplicity and reliability is important.

I don't think they will.
Really the only advantage a legged vehicle would have over a tracked/wheeled one is the ability to climb extremely rough terrain.
On the downside, it's much more fragile, easier to disable, harder to maintain and repair in the field, but what's most important is that you can't ever hope to match the movement speed of conventional armored vehicles (and this i believe will be even more important in the future then it is today)

tldr - they do have a role but it's highly specialized.
They can be used either in extremely mountainous or urban environment. In the latter case, they'll have to be downscaled a lot (probably smaller then tachikomas), otherwise it defeats the whole purpose. Outer walls of buildings are usually just thick glass panels, and you can't expect them to hold the weight of a 5 ton tank.

>Nope, that would not work, any other idea?
No, you aren't listening to me. The only way your spider tank is viable is if you have all these crazy advancements in technology that your enemy doesn't have. Super insane laser guidance hacking technology like in the anime being one of them. In this scenario, without the crazy laser shit, Saito would have fired off this missile and blown a leg off, slowing it down while he loads another round to completely immobilize it.

Even at the end, they reveal they have ways to slow and stop it. Those cannons that shoot that weird fast drying paste to stop the legs from moving.

>Ahahaha, you don't actually know how military technology works, do you?
Do enlighten me, mr. expert.

>spidertanks
No
>thinktanks
Yes. React faster then humans. Manage anti-air and guided missiles seamlessly through modern technology.

Yeah, but in that case we are talking about a single rogue tank, imagine if there were a squad of 3 of them? Also, that tank was not trying to fight back, it could have easily killed everyone in that episode.

Not to mention a tank is too heavy for legs to even fucking work.

Legs have more disadvantages than you might think. Resting 60+ Tons on 4-6 Points generates huge amounts of Pressure. They would damage Streets, Sink in normal Soil, sink FAST in Mud, and would need excentric movement to get through high Snow.

>The one below would be good on normal terrain, but the spider legs would be good at rough terrain, why not make both?
This is exactly what I was thinking. There's something similar in the first Lost Planet game, pic related.
It's a standard conventional tracked tank which can stand up and walk like a spider.

>Legs have more disadvantages than you might think. Resting 60+ Tons on 4-6 Points generates huge amounts of Pressure. They would damage Streets, Sink in normal Soil, sink FAST in Mud, and would need excentric movement to get through high Snow.
Guess they would have to be downsacled, like said.

is this the same autist that has been spamming ths idea for the lats 3 years?

Very true. When he hacked Saito's hawkeye and dodged his bullets, that was complete badassry.

What I'm getting at is that tank was way more advanced than what Section 9 had in intelligence of its capabilities. The platform itself, of a spider tank, has glaring problems, mechanically. I love the concept but actually being practical is very hard to justify outside a few very rare circumstances, and certainly not in heavy combat imo.

Remember the episode where one got stuck in an alleyway?

"Sensors" to detect mines do not exist. You can either use metal detectors, which are extremely short range and obviously are largely ineffective for minimum metal mines. That's why minesweeping operations are so slow, and that's part of the purpose of laying a minefield in the first place. It's nice to inflict casualties on the enemy, but the main effect a minefield has is to stop the enemy from entering or crossing some particular region. Even if spider tanks were at an advantage in rough terrain (they aren't), laying mines would force them to operate where conventional vehicles have the advantage.

Or you can just forget about detecting them and equip your lead vehicle with mine flails. Doesn't work with legs, so that's another point against stupid fucking legged vehicles.

The tech in Elysium gave me such a fucking erection.

Why didn't the nigga go up on two wheels? They did that in the exact episode I linked after the one Tachikoma got BTFO by the big tank.

Although maybe that wouldn't have made it any skinnier...

Still, if it didn't have the pod on the back it probably could have. IIRC they do remove the pods after Section 9 got disbanded and they went into civil service like at the old folk's home. You'd think they'd have one in the field without a pod for super ultra maneuverability in tight places.

Shit opinions detected.

I do know toys exist that show the alternate ones you talking about.

>IIRC they do remove the pods after Section 9 got disbanded and they went into civil service like at the old folk's home.
Nope, when the 3 tachikomas gather up in that episode, 2 of them just have slightly altered pods, pic related.

ofc, but not in near future

M8, the Tachikomas weren't really all that good against anything other than infantry.
They are tanks in name only.
Those fuckers get blown the fuck out multiple times throughout the series.
Picture related for example.

Anyways, who is looking forward to the train wreck the live action gits film will most likely be?
youtube.com/watch?v=G4VmJcZR0Yg

I hate to admit it but I like the song they used, both versions of it
youtube.com/watch?v=E_1-oylPHjs

desu the ones in destiny are pretty tanky.

if real life ones could have some sort of close range blast (like the stomp move it has in destiny), they would be very hard to destroy with traditional guerilla/muzzie anti-tank weapons (ex: plastic explosive, thermite, etc.)

>exposed hull that you can see for miles, nowhere to put ERA
>each leg putting 10 tons on a patch of ground the size of a dinner plate
I suppose it will revolutionalize it, in the sense that the first country to use this stupid shit in warfare will get raped and the people will probably revolt against the down's syndrome politicians who approved it.

So you have to ask yourselves just how necessary are the pods? To reiterate my point (same guy different ID), you'd think they'd have a minimalistic Tachikoma in the field for super tight and fast maneuvers... I know the pod has become handy in the field many times, but one minimalistic one could be just as useful.

Whats the point of building such a complicated machine just for it to be shot down by armor piercing bullets/shells?

The reason why big, gits style tank sized spider tanks will never work is the same why big, mechas will never work.
Legs, and square cube law.
Far too fragile, far too complicated, and far too expensive, with all of those going up the bigger the system in question.

Smaller spider walkers may work, but I think that Tachikomas are pretty much the max size they can be without being utterly useless waste of money.

they have a ton of HP yet the legs still explode open with a few seconds of concentrated fire

You niggers are so 2000LATE

Its all about spidercopters

Same could be said for any piece of military equipment. Why build tanks when someone can just lay mines or shoot rpg's at them?

This was very good

Except tanks are far less vulnerable to mines or antitank weapons than walking mech weaboo bullshit. THAT is the problem. You're arguing for future magic technology that is already less effective than technology from the 70s.

that doesn't even look half bad.

and some very well remade scenes in there.

We all damn well know this is actually a secret prototype by the Japanese government.

TACHIKOMAS ARE CUTE

Damn straight

Tachikomas are for bullying.

Go back to /k/

this discussion makes me wonder:
why are there no efforts to make smaller tanks?

Maybe just a crew of two with some sort of "ai" to help with comms / gunnery?

It won't revolutionize the military because all you need to do to defeat a spider tank is bug spray

>You're arguing for future magic technology that is already less effective than technology from the 70s.
I'm not advocating large spider tanks. Maybe you should read my posts before replying.

There are tankettes all over, Google.

There are, sort of. It's not really popular because there isn't much advantage to them compared to a regular light truck with an MG or AT weapon. Less range, speed, carrying capacity. They're really only useful in dense urban environments where it doesn't have to drive far and size, mobility, and the ability to resist small arms fire become important factors.

youtube.com/watch?v=hIzU4bU9DcA
DARPA is looking into agile tanks that instead of having armor are highly evasive and can dodge rockets like Neo dodges bullets in the matrix.

Legs with wheels AND climbing wires increase range of mobility, but not speed of mobility. Rapid acceleration is what's required for this to work

Also in the GITS universe spidertanks were LARGE, slow, and bulky things. The "think tank" tachikoma were an experimental exception to that norm.

One RPG and this thing will explode into a thousand pieces...

I think a tachikoma-like spider tank would easily find a niche with law enforcement where it wouldn't need to contend with large caliber rounds or anti-tank ordnance. A smaller-sized tank with the versatility and maneuverability granted by spider legs would make it better suited and more capable at dealing with a tight urban environment than a larger vehicle or proper tank. Even moreso if it doesn't need a human pilot inside.

Would get BTFO in conventional warfare though, that's for sure.

Something like this is more or less what I had in mind.

I'm talking actual, properly armored and gunned MBT's, not uparmored VW Golfs.

Surely you could reduce the size of a tank by a decent margin if you removed unncessary crew members, maybe even the turret.

Same applies to pic related. Not much short of a tank or APC with slat armor will resist an AT weapon, and even then the most advanced ones tend to btfo tanks no problem.

The point is not to withstand RPGs, but to withstand some asshole with a PKM shooting at you from an apartment building. Regular vehicles are vulnerable to regular small arms fire, and APCs/IFVs are too big for tight spaces like that.

>1 post by this id

Haha, no, unless you want to have a small ass compartment with no room to fart. They're already cramped as fuck as is.

>if you removed unncessary crew members, maybe even the turret.
Wait, are you under the impression that tanks feature more crew members than necessary? Like they put in some passengers just to keep the necessary crewmembers entertained with conversation? Or that the turret on a tank is unnecessary too?

What exactly do you want this small wheeled metal box to do, exactly?

The German military still uses MG-42's?

You don't know how much I hate you for bringing this from the discord server to Sup Forums you monumental faggot.

...

Yup
It is modernized and renamed as MG-3

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_MG_3

Dunno, the Leo's pretty comfy. Especially compared to sht like Marders, which are REALLY cramped.

Nowadays, yes. I'm aware that back in the day 3 man tanks were the rules which proved disadvantageous when they came up against larger 5 man tanks.

But that was before computers and combat networks.
The radio operator could be made obsolete by software, the gunner possibly aswell.
Many tanks nowadays already feature "hunter killer" where the commander can take control of the gun if needed or indicate targets digitally to the gunner.
Therefore the act of pointing the gun at the target and pulling the trigger could also be relegated to a machine. No matter how much of a stiffy it gives to pull the trigger.

And I'm sure you know about autoloaders, I'm fairly certain these could overcome humans aswell with some more development.

A turret would of course be better, but if it's just about tank v. tank warfare (and if for one turreted tank you can make several unturreted) it may not be entirely necessary. StuG's and all that.

The Driver may also become obsolete in the future, but that may be further off especially considering off road driving and all that.

Commander is really the only one that I don't see as beeing replacable in the near future.

>What exactly do you want this small wheeled metal box to do, exactly?