Friendly reminder that Tony was right and Captain America should be locked up for his actions

Friendly reminder that Tony was right and Captain America should be locked up for his actions

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=bqfNRrcFNVM
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Fuck off, Tony.

Funniest thing is that JLU provided the perfect argument for Tony

>Look, Rogers, when me and my friend go out in our heavily armored, experimental, advanced portable weapons platforms to enforce justice with extreme prejudice it's fine because I'm rich, intelligent, charismatic and will pretend to be apologetic afterwards if something happens. When you and your friend do it, you're none of those things so it's not OK. Now stand aside so I can murder your victim of years of psychological and physical torture and conditioning friend.

*117* countries wanted the Avengers to sign the Accords. I don't know where Cap gets off thinking he can just refuse. Nat had the right idea.

>I don't know where Cap gets off thinking he can just refuse.
Because chances are most of those countries were also Hydra until he recently intervened.

Ding ding ding. Cap is a rational man forced to believe in proven conspiracy theories. He can't trust anybody but the Avengers.

Friendly reminder that liberalism is the cancer killing America and that rich elitists like Tony want communism.

Never compromise user

Dick and Bush will never be trialed for war crimes, who care.

The real Steve Rodgers is actually a Trump supporter. The one that Marvel pushed as anti-Trump is clearly a Hydra plant. Break the conditioning people

Their war crimes aren't as bad as Obama's treason.

>rich elitists like Tony want communism
But Stark is clearly a Capitalist. He's stated it many times. If there's one person who wants Communism, it's someone like Doom or one of those "Imma turn the world into a Utopia" people. Tony's one of the few characters who wants to let the future run its course, broken bones, hardships and all.

>Friendly reminder that Tony was right and Tony should be locked up for his actions
ftfy

The accords were made for people like Tony, assholes that cause more problems then they fix. IM2 and IM3 were the direct cause of him outing himself as Iron Man at the end of the first movie.

I'm never sure if it's good or not that characters like Tony have dispositions that add up based on their position.
He very much is a
>Now that I've got mine, it's time for the rest of you to hand over all autonomy to checkered authority. What's that? Such a system will hinder others achieving a similar position of freedom I've received? Well, that's just a conveni--I mean coincidence. REGISTER.
Kind of guy.
In the MCU he and Strange both only seem to acknowledge checks and balances for others after they've had their fill of liberties.

Says who? HYDRA doesn't have that much control. They were always embedded into SHIELD specifically, and their secrets were released. Regardless those are still the legitimate countries of the world. Refusing the Accords and still flying into their land would constitute an act of war. Who knows how those countries would react. Nat knew there's no logical reason to outright refuse them, it'll just cause problems. What would it even accomplish? Break apart the Avengers and for the world to hate them?

I understand where Cap is coming from though.

Friendly reminder that the Sokovia Accords were unconstitutional and the Supreme Court would have struck in down after the movie ended.

>rich elitists like Tony want communism.
>rich elitists want communism
>A Capitalist wants an end to capitalism

You have no idea what you're talking about.

On paper the idea of Avenger oversight was correct, but the very first thing the Accord Avengers/Governments did was initiate a hunt for an innocent man and order their men to kill on sight without a trial, based on evidence turned up by an sensationalized investigation that was cursory at best. ("Innocent" of the specific crime he was being hunted for, the Geneva Bombing.)

Cap, due to his history (see ) is understandably hesitant to put himself and a body of enhanced people (whom he trusts to act under their own auspices) under government control. That said, his specific reservations, that said government is under the influence of Hydra, were incorrect. However, the fact that the overseeing body was immediately rused by Zemo into committing acts as suspect as listed above, means that Cap's concerns were ultimately correct on a broader level.

Of course, relative philosophical approaches aside, the actions undertaken by our leads were ultimately more personally motivated than anything. Tony pushes this referendum out of guilt, and to be fair, a sincere desire to be better than he has been. Thus, when the manhunt for Bucky begins, Tony is personally determined to strictly follow the rules, regardless of how questionable those rules may be (a fact he is not blind to, which leads to him reaching out to Cap). And Cap is more motivated by protecting a friend than by his suspicion of the accords, though in this instance those two motivations are not mutually exclusive.

Then in the end, when Bucky's implicated in the Starks' deaths, their respective motivations throw reason out the window and become purely emotional. Tony gives no shits about the accords and just wants to avenge his mom. Cap chooses to protect Bucky regardless of whether he bears some culpability or not, at the expense of wrecking Tony's shit. When he cools down, he realizes the dichotomy of his motivations, which is why he gives up the role of Captain America.

Obamas treason?

Stark could be a Libertarian. Doom could even be described as a Fascist AnCap.

Just wondering
Is Ellis still the president in the MCU?

>Tony is a capitalist

Yeah and Venezuela is a successful socialist utopia.

What is he then, smarty-pants?

Constant outsourcing and layoffs due to heavy regulation, spying on a presidential candidate, more Americans on welfare, increased terrorist attacks, funding ISIS, giving money to a nation that sponsors terrorism (Iran, not Israel.) The list goes on fampai.

Are they gonna have the UN vote on whether or not the Avengers can fight Thanos?

Cali liberal aka an elitist that wants socialism so he can be in charge.

You are an idiot.

Pretty sure the UN would send its own army to deal with Thanos.

being black

Keep taking the blue pill sheep.

Hes not black, he's a mulatto muslim

We saw how that went with Bucky.

...

Clearly the UN knows what's best.

If the UN would have just incorporated the Avengers instead of that committee bullshit then everything would have been okay

Also if Steve had just asked Tony to help him find Bucky they would have found him easily and everything would have been avoided

The Registration Act was a mistake and Sup Forums knows it.

I appreciate that your response wasn't just inflammatory arguments for the sake of arguing, but a thought out assessment of what actually happened.
Couldn't have said it better myself, user.
Kudos.

Are we gonna do this ? Again ?

Mutie registration isn't, though.

That's not true

As a viewer, you know that Captain America will prevail just as we know in Avengers 4 Thanos will ultimately lose
However in universe there's no reason to believe good will always prevail and Steve won't slip up. That's why Tony sided with the Accords when in IM2 he was fighting against basically the same thing. He knows first hand the culpability of heroes and Cap is always gonna try to keep on top of everything, and after the Nigeria incident he shows he's not gonna stop after fucking up

well how many countries didn't want them to sign it?

Stop equating mutants with Jews. Just because you overpaid on something doesn't give a reason to hate Jews

In-universe what's the justification behind why are mutants hated but the Avengers and the Defenders are loved?

But that just shows how much of a hypocritical liberal Tony is.

Muties aren't just Jews, they're a stand-in for all outcasts.

One set gets their powers through accidents, experiments or dedication, the other gets theirs randomly with no simple way of knowing what or when.
Take a guess.

But it makes no sense to ostracize mutants while giving other metahumans a pass.

You're literally wrong. The guy destroyed a mineral that would've given him complete control over the Earth and the Market, destroyed people's livelihoods and became a villain, all to keep the market free and the game more or less fair.

because mutants are born with their powers so they don't really deserve them.
the main teams earned them through science and shit
not entirely true but that's what the commoners believe

Tony's probably a moderate Republican

His family has been too ingrained with the military and living symbols of America to be leftists

How do you deserve powers if you got them through a freak accident?

>hypocritical liberal Tony
But he's not a liberal... Why are you spreading lies, user?

>because mutants are born with their powers so they don't really deserve them.

Oh boy here we go with the abortion metaphor

He's probably at the end of his second term.

I always thought he was elected in 2012

I would ask about Trump but then i remembered T'challa is black Trump ie civic nationalism.

Nvm
you're right
I thought it was 2016 for a brief moment there

It's been 8 year since THE AVENGERS in-universe.

I'm pretty sure Ellis is a Republican anyways
Obama was ousted after the outcry that occurred because of the New York incident

for what? was he supposed to fight the aliens himself?

Holy fuck. With all the terrorist attacks during Obama's irl tenure why didn't we oust him like that?!

>Tony gives no shits about the accords
In case the recruitment of Spiderman wasn't a big enough hint, Tony never gave a single fuck about the accords beyond saving the closest thing he has to a family from incarceration without trial or worse; a kill squad/drone strike.

That's Tony's true motivation throughout the majority of the film; protecting the Avengers, even if it means rubbing shoulders with someone that disgusts him. The Avengers are his family, and whether or not he admits it, they're the only people he actually trusts aside from Pepper (you ever notice all of the Stark Tech he gives them doesn't have a kill switch or failsafe in case it's used against him, or even a tracking device? 616 Tony would have most certainly built contingencies into his equipment he lends out.)

That's why he goes berserk when he sees Bucky murdering his parents; it's not just he footage or the truth, it's also the fact that someone he considers a brother basically betrayed him by withholding information he had every right to know for over two years.

>saving the closest thing he has to a family from incarceration without trial or worse
I'm glad you posted an image of Tony taking a tour through the Raft to show how well that went.
I'd post "brother" Steve breaking out their impromptu family, but I think it would be redundant.

Evolutionary theory suggests that Mutants are going to replace us. You're average enhanced or metahuman isn't posing the same threat of extinction just by existing that Mutants are.

At least he never sold our country to Russia

But mutants are just humans. Who the fuck cars about humans evolving? Literally it will not effect the lifetime of anybody who hates mutants.

Idk
Ellis said he ran on a campaign on keeping America safe
He's probably Trump-lite
No idea if or how he survived the Sovokia thing and then Cap becoming a criminal

I also wonder how the public views him

Well, yeah; the look on his face is essentially "This is exactly what I was trying to avoid" and Steve breaking them out really didn't fix the problem, considering they're all now fugitives. They're no longer behind bars, but they're hunted men and women, which is still what Tony wanted to prevent. Besides, if Tony didn't intervene, there's a good chance Cap's side would have encountered far worse than a small band of reluctant enforcers trying to avoid casualties (with the exception of BP, of course.)

He wanted everyone to sign the accords so shit like the Raft or a bodybag wouldn't be what's waiting for them, and Cap's solution...isn't really a solution to the core problem.

Not to mention the X-gene has seemingly no upper limit of expression.
Everything from knowing a bunch of languages to control of all forms of "energy" to control of all forms of "time" to flat out reality warping fall under it, and there's few cases of accident or enhancement providing that scale of absolute power over all existence to children going through puberty.

> Who the fuck cars about humans evolving? Literally it will not effect the lifetime of anybody who hates mutants.
Mutants are a celestial deviation of human evolution. They're walking, breeding, volatile petri dishes. Their existence very much has, does and will affect the lifetime of everyone who so much as lives within the vicinity of them regardless of their stance on their presence.

But if by "makes no sense" mean "I'll simply categorically ignore and dismiss any and all cases presented in the history of Marvel and X-Men comics", then sure. There's never been an age of Apocalypse, House of M or any such scenario to illustrate why these individuals are dangerously unhinged and unhindered.

This.

Tony's viewpoint was just to have everyone sign the damn thing while he puts out the PR fires and tries to get the accords amended so they could operate at least semi-normally. Steve's viewpoint was "no, you move" which isn't always the best way to approach a problem, especially when there are casualties to answer for, and the Avengers suffered greatly for that conviction of his.

Yeah just like there's never been two Civil Wars to illustrate why no superhumans should be given a free pa- oh wait

The Civil War never enslaved humanity or altered reality on a whim you mong.
Like I said, you'll just sidetrack and make like an ostrich ad nauseam.

Just think of the PR nightmare that would happen if Cap got taken out by Seal Team 6

I always feel bad for Tony
His entire character arc is him trying to fix his past mistakes and he's getting vilified for it by fans

But "sign away your soul then hope to weasel your way out completely while trying your best to skirt every aspect you don't like" isn't really all that safe either.
Made all the worse by the fact that Tony only really signed it because he was guilted.
HIS.
His past mistakes, he deserves to get shit for dragging everyone into his half assed guilt trip.

What the fuck was he supposed to do?
Either he blindly stands by his friends objections which they will lose any legal authority or he tries to wrangle his friend in while they still have power

The Avengers were far more competent and far more moral than any governmental authority.

If anything the Avengers should have forced the governments to sign a treaty with them.

Tiny Stank, the Iron Manlet will never be right and he will never learn.

Not even Pym particles can correct that.

>Tiny Stank,
He's average. Maybe a tad above. There's no way he's a dicklet. Either way, not everyone can be hung. Guys with average dicks get the most action in comics anyway. Hal, Stark, Logan,none of them are hung yet they smash all the time because they have moves.
>the Iron Manlet will never be right and he will never learn.
He's 6'1".

Yeah that's why he incarcerated them, told Steve he signed the accords in hopes Pepper took him back, and why he said Wanda was a weapon who had no rights for not being American.

>But "sign away your soul then hope to weasel your way out completely while trying your best to skirt every aspect you don't like" isn't really all that safe either.
It isn't, and that's something he knows, but you're missing the point; this isn't a case of signing because it's the right or wrong thing to do, it's a case of signing it because the alternative is retirement or running from the law (if you're lucky,) which is what Tony has been saying the entire movie.

>His past mistakes
In the context of Civil War, he's trying to prevent everyone else from making future mistakes, particularly the ones that land them in prison or a morgue.

And Wanda is very much half responsible for a lot of what's happened to lead up to this point, both in AoU and Civil War, and in the case of the latter, Tony's not really the one dragging the Avengers through the mud for his own personal reasons; Cap is.

>is shown cast iron evidence bucky was brainwashed into every act of violence he did
>Proceeds to go after him like he was knowingly complicit
I think Tony's genius might be a little overrated

not the user you are talking but:
When the Soviet Union ended a bunch of russian billionaires appeared as soon as the next day arrived. rich people love comunism because it easier for them to shut down the competition and take a hold of the field they making money off and is easier to control your average joe.
why the fuck you think hollywoodf is full of leftist propaganda? it is not becausae they care about people

Sure, might makes right. That always ends well.

>Yeah that's why he incarcerated them
The alternative was basically a strike team, with likely casualties on both sides.

>told Steve he signed the accords in hopes Pepper took him back
That wasn't so much the primary motivating factor as it was him hoping it'd be a happy side effect.

>and why he said Wanda was a weapon who had no rights for not being American.
He was stating how the world saw her, and he's not wrong; Wanda is technically not an American citizen, and is considered a war criminal in her homeland, meaning she legally does not share the rights an American citizen would have. There is nothing stopping the authorities from detaining her indefinitely without trial, and the only thing protecting her is her status as an active Avenger. Cap's insistence that "she's a kid!" makes little difference considering the shit she did at Ultron's side, not to mention her most recent fuckup as an Avenger on foreign soil.

How so?

You telling me you would be in your right mind after watching your father's face cave in and your mother strangled to death?

You're on Sup Forums. People here typically haven't suffered much adversity in their lives.

What proof did Cap have that Bucky was brainwashed?

That wasn't friendly at all. I'm starting to think you're full of shit.

I would hope that after he's had some time to sit down and think it over, Tony would realise Bucky was being used rather than doing things of his volition. If he was smart as he thinks he'd take the evidence and gun for the real killers; hydra

Also it would make for a great Iron Man 4 is one happened; Tony finds out who brainwashed Bucky to kill ma and pa, puts considerable work into his suits to get revenge on them, Hydra recruits ezekial stane to even the playing field and we get a similar tone to civil war

They took a bunch of hydra data that told them all this. plus Zemo basically confirmed it when he used the code book on Bucky.

Steve did consider signing it, he wasn't oppose yo having a law or some measure of control, but the more questions he asked and the more Tony talked it was obvious that it was a bad idea.

Steve read the whole accords document and had some questions about them that Tony dismissed or didn't care or know about because he just wanted Steve to sign. When he saw Wanda being put on house arrest with no trial and people eager to kill Bucky with no trial as well (because Steve wasn't opposed to containing him, he was for it as long as Bucky got some helped and got a trial).

Tony signed out of guilt for Sokovia and in hopes that Pepper came back to him (judging by Homecoming it worked) protecting the Avengers? Maybe but the accords were more about controlling them regardless of their human rights. Tony also had no intentions of following the accords (Tony is not a man of his word, he does what he wants), it fucking showed in the movie since he breaks the rules like three times and his problem with Steve in the end was just that he protected the man who was brainwashed to kill his parents.

Steve also wasn't going to let his team rot in jail, and he gave them the choice to follow him and warned them about the consequences. In that sense Steve respected them to make their own choices like adults and doesn't act like he's the smartest man in the room who knows best and they're idiots.

It's implied that Cap nor Tony went through that information
Cap probably didn't know how
Tony probably didn't care because he's more focused on what's on hand atm

Cap really fucked up by not getting Tony involved in finding Bucky

>Cap is.
Fuck off.
Throughout Civil War Cap even at his own expense is attempting to resolve the fallout of Hydra and Zemo everyone was gladly ignoring while Stark and Ross just get in the way and actively refusing to listen or help.

Steve's team was on the ground minute one to deal with Crossbones' attempt at biowarfare while everyone else was fiddling themselves elsewhere, yet because of a slip no one else could have stopped anyway, a slip far less disastrous than Crossbones' original intentions, the Accord candidates jump at an excuse to push their agenda.

When Zemo bombs their shit and plays them, they get Bucky hand wrapped so Zemo can effortlessly walk in and activate him.

Everyone else occupied with all of fuck all during this fails to apprehend Bucky and Zemo while Steve and Sam pursue both problems, again, with no thanks and plentiful problems piling on them.
By having everyone else's safety in mind instead of whatever petty shit Sam, Steve and Bucky make their way to Zemo while Ross and Stark are blowing up airports, enlisting children into their persona army, throwing people into black sites and accomplishing dick. Ross and Stark saved zero lives, prevented zero catastrophes, acknowledged zero responsibility for the fuck ups while Steve and Bucky are attempting the opposite. Shit, Stark attacks Steve and Bucky while they're attempting to do that, a bit earlier Rhodey had their death robot attempt to lethal shot Sam out of the sky and is ironically paralyzed himself by the kill order, glider or no there was no way Sam was going to survive the acceleration of that downspiral without thruster brakes but Rhodey and Vision never even acknowledge this fatal act for all their touting of regulation and restraint, "fuck 'im" as far as they're concerned.

As a final nail in the coffin T'Challa himself switches sides and helps Steve and Bucky in the end when he realizes how irrevocably WRONG the Accords, Stark and Ross were. End of movie.

He deserves that shit because he needs to be held accountable for his actions and everytime people have tried to do that he weaseled out of his way.

Cap is suffering for what he believed was right but Tony himself sold weapons and created weapons that led to people dying and in the end he was still living in his comfy house/tower continuing his comfy life.

If anything his fans make him into a dindu

Tony showed weak moral fiber, regardless of what else happened, and Cap did not (as usual), Cap stuck true to what he believed.

Tony gave in to rage and tried to kill an innocent war hero who spent decades being tortured.

youtube.com/watch?v=bqfNRrcFNVM

My closest possible guess is the single Captain Marvel episode.

>he's right"
>Batman attempts to speak
>Cut to credits

...

Cap intentionally kept Tony in the dark about Bucky killing the Stark's

Cap betrayed Tony
That's all Tony had in the Avengers and Cap's actions
Trust