Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

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Both.

It's a split between your mother for giving birth to you and your father for not raising you properly.

Tony was right for the wrong reasons and Cap was wrong for the right reasons.

cap was in the right for the wrong reasons.
stark was in the wrong for the right reasons

I like how this film is just Tony snapping because everyone keeps piling shit on him. Tony is blamed for Sokovia, Tony has a dead kid hanging over his head, Cap is giving Tony non-stop shit for going with the government, Ross is constantly breathing down his neck, and then when Tony finds someone who has legit wronged him?

>>Oh, he's innocent cause he was mind controlled.

I hate how people overlook this.

Yeah, the entire "Stark having a breakdown" arc is overlooked by a lot of people.

No one in their right mind would think Bucky was really to blame, but that's the entire point: Tony wasn't in his right mind.

That image would look good if they both weren't helmet heads/dick heads/condom heads

Fucking Christ, and fuck any apologist who will disagree with me, Cap looks like shit without his 3D wings, it's a bout shape and being unique

The scriptwriters for making it look like Team Cap has a fighting chance.

Marvel.

Tony on so many levels.
He was only going along because his guilty conscious.
Dragging everyone down with him.
And finally it was just a plain bad idea given that roughly a year or two ago the Government was revealed to be lousy with Psuedo-Nazis.

My question is, why do they go to such length to save Bucky when he's never done anything that great for anyone else?

At the point in the story where Cap was building his team they thought they were trying to stop the other winter soldiers. It stopped being about saving Bucky after the helicopter crash

Both of them

I think the movies did a good job of showing more grey to both sides. It’s been a long time since I read the first Civil War but I am pretty sure in the comics Tony was portrayed as very one dimensional. Any sympathy for him wasn’t done well. Movie> Comic in this case

Cap will go out of his way to save Bucky not just because he's his best friend, but Bucky is the last thing from his former life in the 40s he's desperately trying to hang on to.

>ALL RIGHT CAPTAIN AMERICA, YOU'RE GOING TO THE GULAG
>NOT SO FAST, IRON MAN. A CONFLICT BETWEEN US WOULD CAUSE DAMAGE AND DANGER TO ALL US GOOD HEROES
>YOU ARE RIGHT CAPTAIN AMERICA. WE SHOULD DO THE SKIING CHALLENGE
>INDEED. EACH SIDE WILL PICK THEIR CHAMPION FOR THE JERK CIRCLE. THE FIRST TO EJACULATE AT THE HAND OF THEIR ADVERSARY LOSES
>THIS IS TRULY THE ONLY WAY
>CUE 30 MINUTE ACTION HAND JOB SEQUENCE

He's his friend, he's the last person he can related to since Carter died, and he is also an innocent men that is going to be put down for doing things against his will.

If Bucky wasn’t innocent, do you think Steve would have defended him as well?

Probably. Steve would blame himself thinking his absence is what led to Bucky going down that road, and will try to change him.

Watch the first Captain America movie. Bucky had his back for years.

iawtc.

This. Bucky was literally like a brother to him.

Cap was wrong with the right intentions.
Stark was right with the wrong intentions

Tony should have easily won this fight.

Considering Tony broke the law and went as Iron Man in secret to go find the Winter Soldiers, I'm going to say Tony since it was clear at that point as to why restraining the Avengers was a bad idea that even the people who agreed to it didn't believe in.

I mean, what's the point of Tony signing the Accords if he's just going to go rogue whenever the fuck he feels like anyway?

youtube.com/watch?v=s5jrdHASx04&
Is this the best scene in the movie

Wow.
Thank you for opening my eyes, brother. I never noticed that.

It'd be more believable if Tony had ever been shown to have a right mind.

Tony for wanting to take away Team Cap's Constitutional rights.
Also, Congress and the US Supreme Court for not shutting down the Accords immediately for being fucking unconstitutional.

Marvel

I think Tony had rational reason if we go with this
The fact that Cap would go to such great lengths to defend guilty Bucky and ignore hard facts.

>No one in their right mind would think Bucky was really to blame,
I think most people in the world would blame Bucky, regardless. We only care so much about him because we know his side of the story, Tony doesn't.

Tony was right overall, but his execution was flawed and trust in the government was misplaced

All I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with the idea that the Avengers need oversight. You can't just be a public team of superheroes, and then when casualties occur on your watch you stay silent and disappear.

Exactly. When you've got guys like Hulk running around you NEED oversight, and you should be cleaning up your messes.

But I agree with Cap as well when he points out that people have agendas, and "agendas change".

Sure, but in the movie they're mostly under the jurisdiction of General Ross, who is at best a massive hypocrite and at worst an amoral, totalitarian asshole. Wanting some oversight on the heroes is understandable, but them being wholly subservient to the Government is also a bad idea.

You know the Justice League managed to get around a lot of this shit.
You know I would have loved to see Banner in the room when Ross showed up to present the accords. Bet you things would have gone a little different if Bruce decided to mention Abomination

Shhh, that movie didn't really actually truly happen.

Not exactly. The Justice League has Batman who has plans to incapacitate or kill every member if they step out of line, and the newer series have the JLA composed of members specifically meant to bring the Justice League down if they go too far.

I'm pretty sure they all know about Abomination, I think it was in a comic, but that scene where Tony meets Ross in that bar is him getting Ross to convince the World Security Council NOT to recruit Abomination for the Avengers Initiative.

But he didn't ignore the facts. He didn't want Bucky to go free, he just wanted Bucky to be properly prosecuted and received psychiatric care rather than shot on sight.

Nah, that's incorrect. If that were true Steve would've urged Bucky to turn himself in. He doesn't hold Bucky responsible for what he did while the Winter Soldier, end of.

Whether that's justified or not is a whole other debate.

At that moment? Stark. But Captain America was rather wretched in how he willingly let people team up with him under the assumption he had this big, grand plan outside of "Save Bucky".

everybody was convinced zemo was going to utilize the winter soldiers, it wasn't just "save bucky"

youtube.com/watch?v=XYu3QdJFG4E
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No.

Anyone that makes a judgement call based off what the UN wants is flat out wrong.

Fuck the UN.

The point of the movie was to propagandize this notion that the UN has some sort of authority that should be acknowledged and followed.

I would agree with you if this was real life. But remember this is comic book UN and they are far less corrupted.

Tony had too much faith in the Government.

What comic books have you been reading?

Well 616 is a different verse to the MCU. I should have said MCU UN. My bad.

desu I don't buy them being less corrupt. They had fucking Ross overseeing the team. If that isn't a red flag I don't know what is.

You mean the Everett Ross who saved Nakia’s life? He certainly isn’t a complete douchbag.

Rhodes literally brings up how it's the UN and not a shady org like SHIELD/Hydra. Steve still dismisses it as people with agendas.

>youtube.com/watch?v=pnY4YxzQhxI
>That thumbnail

Steve is a cunt, literally not giving a fuc k about the right to self-determination of others. He is pretty much Bush

Rhodey was talking a lot of sense honestly.
>A 117 countries want to sign this. 117, Sam, and you're just like, "No, that's cool. We got it."

The Avengers side of it is run by Thunderbolt Ross, who was directly involved in the creation of The Hulk and was involved in several underhanded and shady schemes to get him back, including the creation of The Abomination. At best, Rhodes is being overly idealistic and too trusting in the system to see the giant red flags being waved in his face.

>The living, are not done with you yet
Fuck I love how regal BP is in this scene

Tony was right both in the movie and in the comics.