You have no evidence that MGTOW is creating any sort of difference at all. Yet I see this claim being repeated here over and over again.
So, Sup Forums, do you have any evidence that modern women are suffering because men allegedly won't date them? Your empty claims and little fee fees don't count, I need real proof you little snowflakes.
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huffingtonpost.com
health.harvard.edu
twitter.com
mgtow had no relevance
I know it doesn't, which is why I'm tired of people on here saying it does. I see post after post where people here claim MGTOW is lowering the white birth rates or that women are oppressed because guys won't date them. But when I go outside I see young couples everywhere, 80-90 percent of them being white.
The jews try to murder people any way they can.
Planned parenthood, gays, trannies, porn, drugs, prison, MGTOW. What do they all have in common? You're not having kids...
>You're not having kids...
Women need to act better, so people will reward them with kids. That's their problem as much as it is mine.
Men can always just rape someone. We will go on.
It's absolutely true that western men are mistreated both by women and western society as a whole, but I disagreeing with you about the having kids part. Women want kids with Chad first and foremost, and they will do everything possible to be with Chad. Meaning that they will be 'rewarded' by Chad knocking them up by accident and then life goes on.
The only MGTOW retards out there are the people who in the past would have never had a chance to breed anyway, so who cares about them.
And then they'll either be a single mother, or they'll get an abortion (in either scenario no other man would ever want to be with them), or they'll manage to make Chad settle down with them, in which case there's no problem.
...I have no evidence that MGOTW ppl go around saying they're making a difference either?
but then I only hang around here maybe 3-4 hours a week
maybe it's the luck of the draw. but I've only ever seen MGOTW mentioned in threads like this or ones posted by people who think white guys should impregnate more white chicks
(((mgtow)))
>You have no evidence that MGTOW is creating any sort of difference at all.
I think that's the point
stay ghosty anons
>any evidence that modern women are suffering
huffingtonpost.com
health.harvard.edu
>muh female depression
Male suicide rate
Nuff said
>the people who in the past would have never had a chance to breed anyway
Not necessarily true, considering how backwards things are in modern society. It used to be all about capturing and raping women, now it's all about consent, which I would argue is a fictional social construct.
It used to be that the strongest, fastest man got to reproduce. Now whoever conforms to the female fashion standards gets to reproduce. If you're a limp-wristed little faggot that looks, acts, and dresses like Justin Beiber, you'll get to reproduce. But if you're really strong and fast, nobody cares about that, and nobody will fuck you.
>It used to be all about capturing and raping women
No it didn't. Even the earliest humans were tribal and protective of their kin. Sex has always been about navigating social structures to access the women without getting murdered by their families. That is a big part of what it means to be human.
it comes down to personal choice.
most of the people i talked to about mgtow ignore it completely, others think their ideas are too extreme.
something tells me you're not strong or fast, just a hunch
Do you think a caveman cared about "navigating the social structures"?
You'd like to think that for some reason, I guess. Didn't like what I said?
you pretty much have to conform 100% to whatever female say or its over.
you can't have too extreme of an opinion because it might make you a creep, you have to moderate and monotone as possible with woman which is not something i can endure
>No it didn't. Even the earliest humans were tribal and protective of their kin. Sex has always been about navigating social structures to access the women without getting murdered by their families. That is a big part of what it means to be human.
You are adorable sweetheart why don't you go ahead and post those titties now
>You have no evidence that MGTOW is creating any sort of difference at all. Yet I see this claim being repeated here over and over again.
That's not the goal though, MGTOW isn't trying to change society like MRA because they know nobody gives a shit about men.
You are right. Families are the first thing that needs to be fixed. If this is fixed then everything falls in place.
"Want to fix the world? Then fix your country first. Want to fix your country? Then fix your town first. Want to fix your town? Then fix your family first. Want to fix your family? Then fix yourself first."
Nah im on bout as often as you. I rarely see threads or comments about it. Youtube has a few that are pretty into it, but theyre always derided as small dicked woman haters
>personal choice
>not making a wide difference
I dunno. Seems fine to me.
Yes. If they came into a cave and snatched up a woman without discussing it with the other occupants of the cave, they would find their head caved by a club. Besides, that isn't the point. What I am trying to teach you is that humans have never been autonomous individuals, they have always had a social structures where they would protect their women from low-quality rapists.
>you pretty much have to conform 100% to whatever female say or its over.
But then you end up looking like a white knight or a nu-male. Most women are actually submissive, but unfortunately they're in denial about it. It would be better for everyone if they'd stop being insecure, stop wasting everybody's time (including their own), and just submit to their own natural desires.
>you can't have too extreme of an opinion because it might make you a creep, you have to moderate and monotone as possible with woman which is not something i can endure
In my experiences, women want one of the two extremes - Either submission or dominance.
More like they'll settle down with Billy the Cuck who will pretend the child is his.
The point of MGTOW isn't to create a difference, the point is to live individualistically and walk away from the societal contract.
If it so happens to make a difference, that's not MGTOW's problem.
>the change start with you.
i agree that's a good solution to alot of problems, but the courts are the problem not the people.
its just a legal problem, its jamming up marriage in a big way
well there is another value here which is looks, which gives you more freedom of expression regardless of what you say
Oh dear... This poor girl actually believes that cavemen all lived together, like in a happy little socialist / communist society. You don't even want to think about an anarchic time, where people acted as individuals, because then you'd have to admit that I'm right.
MGTOW isn't supposed to have an effect on women. Women won't change.
MGTOW is for the men who follow it to better themselves.
MGTOW isn't about changing shit, it is about men saying fuck it and not being a part of the bullshit anymore.
>MGTOW
I thought it was just called being yourself
How dumb are you? The point of the articles is to show that women are getting emo cos they're not getting any dick or settling down with someone.
There was never a time humans were able to survive autonomously. They have always needed to live in groups and work together. And these groups have always protected each other and their valuable assets (wombs being one of the most valuable).
What you fail to understand is that "strength" is tied into the ability to navigate the social order. No matter how fast and strong you are, if your enemies are working together they will best you.
So to have access to women from the group you need to be accepted by the group. If you barge in and grab a woman without being accepted, you will be killed. It is like that in almost every social order in the animal kingdom as well.
That's the problem. We have all these men who complain that they can't get a woman, but they don't even realize that they're all about submitting to the stupid, boring, annoying feminist system. Any man who settles is part of the problem.
Looks are for women, not men. Men are just supposed to be strong and fast. Women have to look good enough for a man to want to fuck them.
Look at the sort of rhetoric that modern feminists put out. We're told that women can be as ugly and as fat as they want, and men still have to fuck them. It's totally backwards.
Addressing pol as a separate and monolithic party = CTR.
Saged and hidden.
That's one hell of a suppository that guy's holding.
And even if you managed to snatch her the odds of just the two of you being able to survive and rise children would have been shit.
What happens when my group kills all the men in your group and kills all the children in your group?
>implying MGTOW isn't just a bunch of virgins too autistic to get women.
Unless you faggots are downright ugly, go to conservative dating sites/church to find a repilled qt girlfriend (then wife) to have children with.
The last thing we need now is our ideals to be killed thanks to you faggots that refused to reproduce.
the paradigm shifted a long time ago.
looks don't matter sure, but its an added bonus, just like money is a bonus, just like any form of presentation.
since guys are working to have a fit bodies (mostly to impress woman) it requires everyone else to have fit bodies as well because the standard is changing, more guys are offering woman fit bodies. so woman take it.
same with guys having car and money, lots of guys have car and money so it forces all guys to have car and money.
LEAF
So just to be clear, are you denying that more rapes occurred prior to modern civilization?
Do you have any proof that the alleged suffering you linked to is because men won't date women? Why does this board full of autistic spergs try to pretend that men are oppressing women in western society because men won'r date women, even though young guys date young women all the time? You're all spergs.
I'm not saying it's easy to navigate a woman's complicated brain, but from personal experience most women want to be dominated. Once they feel like they have a protector/provider all of their "independence" goals become secondary.
That's just not a thing. Clearly the men who keep her alive and keep her from getting raped are the ones who win, 100% of the time.
>The last thing we need now is our ideals to be killed thanks to you faggots that refused to reproduce.
But that's what I'm talking about. You autistic Sup Forums spergs imply subtly or directly that MGTOW is a large thing or that MGTOW is killing the white race, yet I see no proof of this at all. I see young couples all the time outside. And women are not oppressed in western society if guys choose not to date them.
Then you are navigating the social politics of your group to get access to the vaginas of women from the other group. Much more complex than just grabbing any woman and raping her. Why do you think humans are so intelligent? It's because the intelligent were able to breed by gaining superior strength through grouping together.
Look, you little queer, not everybody on the internet that doesn't 100 percent conform to your isolated autistic queer brain is a "shill".
I'm addressing a pattern I've noticed here, in intensity, for years now. I want to understand why Sup Forums believes such false things. Try not being such a spoiled little prick who thinks the world persecutes you for disagreeing with you, and maybe you'll be a happier person.
It's like you have no idea what was being talked about, fuck off
Quite sad tbqh.
There are good girls out there.
I married a feminine little christian.
Doesnt dare cheating.
Going to have 6 lovely kids
Do get a prenup though
MARRIAGE IS AMAZING
YOU BECOME HAPPIER
PRAISE KEK, GET MARRIED
MAKE WHITE BABIES
MGTOW don't belong on Sup Forums. They generally consist of bluepilled libertarians who can't into women
You talk about "navigating" like it was this great complex thing back then. Probably because you want to believe women had a say in things.
The biggest and smartest guys did what they wanted and everyone else fell in line. "Navigating" makes it seem like something it wasn't.
Both men and women are equally oppressed by this society. Neither is happy with this situation at all.
If you are "going your own way" your chances of being able to rape a woman and get away with it are about the same now as they have ever been. Navigating social orders has always been fundamental to spreading your seed.
>men and women are equally oppressed by this society.
Affirmative action and male suicide rates prove what you are saying is complete bullshit
>If you are "going your own way" your chances of being able to rape a woman and get away with it are about the same now as they have ever been. Navigating social orders has always been fundamental to spreading your seed.
You just completely ignored the question and changed the direction of the conversation
I don't think anyone said MGTOW is a "huge" thing. It's just completely retarted and inherently incorrect and deserves to be made fun of.
Just like people with scat fetishes.
Amen, they are cucks by letting their woman open to other men.
Having kids is wonderful. Just select a good woman thats all.
SERIOUSLY GET MARRIED
And PRAISE KEK nimble navigators!
i don't agree with mgtow being retarded, maybe there are alot of retards in mgtow but the people who spearhead it are actually very smart.
if you are open to ideas try watching thinking ape
No you are wrong. No matter how "big and smart" an individual was, he could be taken down by the group. Why is that hard for you to understand? If this big strong guy thought it wasn't worth appeasing the other guys around him, they band together and kill him. Only those who can convince people to be on their side are really big and strong. It has nothing to do with women having a say, it is to do with the fact that men work together to take down the "top dog" unless the top dog appeases enough of them. That is why humans are so smart, we needed to work together and convince others to stand with us.
Truly intelligent and strong people want people to be as divided as possible, because they can survive and reproduce even in dire and chaotic circumstances.
I see it as something great when a really strong, fast person reproduces, because he's improving the gene pool for generations to come. But when some little dork "navigates the social structure", and totally submits to some woman (whose baby usually belongs to some other man), what is the appeal in that? Who benefits from that? I guess women THINK they do, but I would argue that they don't.
I guess you don't want to think of the possibility of a bad person winning, even though that's what you were talking about.
>your chances of being able to rape a woman and get away with it are about the same now as they have ever been.
No. Because back then, there was no police force, or laws, or courts, or juries that are biased towards women.
>Navigating social orders has always been fundamental to spreading your seed.
Nope, cavemen didn't care about your social order.
Im not open to not buiding a family, thanks.
Nimble praise for the KEK
Bullshit, why do you think 80% of women are predisposed to develop Stockholm Syndrome? Women got captured and raped all the time and they had to adapt or die
>No you are wrong. No matter how "big and smart" an individual was, he could be taken down by the group.
You are the one ignoring what is being said.
Calling it "navigating" is like saying Ahmed made a clock when really he just put one in a box. It wasn't that complex.
For some reason you want to believe it was much more complex than it was. I've never said a single guy came along and bent everyone over.
>go to conservative dating sites/church to find a repilled qt girlfriend (then wife) to have children with.
What so you can spend the rest of your life working for a woman? Men used to have privileges for being the backbone of society but now you're always one rape allegation away from having your life destroyed and your kids taken away. You're no different than male "feminists" if you think anyone who doesn't kneel before the almighty vagina is a loser.
No, my only point has been that a single man couldn't go around raping women in the old days. There was never a time in history where a man, acting alone, was able to rape a woman with impunity. Nobody knows how much rape went on in the old days, all we know for sure is that a man "going his own way" back then wouldn't have been doing the raping.
You speak as if groups are the epitome of intelligence and strength. It's actually the opposite. Groups are for people who are too dumb and too weak to survive on their own. A strong person wouldn't want to cooperate with a group, because they wouldn't want any obligations towards the group, when they're fine on their own.
i have a theory about this
the strongest and smartest humans were actually traveling in small groups. as a strong and smart leader, how many retards can you carry with you? you only take the finest warriors with you to small journys and setup campfires with them
>dating sites
That's part of the problem. Shit feels too much like filling out a job application. That's not how courtship should be and it doesn't surprise me one bit that people lose their patience for them.
I've never said that. This guy is the one who has been saying it.
Your clarification is welcome, but many other people have indeed said it's a huge thing. Either the movement itself or men "opting out" in itself. But they aren't, and I'm tired of this weird narrative being pushed here.
>So, Sup Forums, do you have any evidence that modern women are suffering because men allegedly won't date them?
Women were designed to have children (a lot of children) and live in families. This has been true forever.
Feminism wrecked that. That is why millions of women are depressed, angry, and suicidal. Women don't understand why they feel that way (they only go from feeling to feeling), but not having your primal needs met is a ticket to Hell.
>all we know for sure is that a man "going his own way" back then wouldn't have been doing the raping.
>we know this for sure
That is something you made up entirely, because you don't want to admit that back then, it was all about the fastest, strongest person reproducing, and now it's all about whoever submits to the feminist social structure.
People should be concerned that strong, fast people aren't reproducing anymore, and now it's all about looking and acting like Justin Beiber.
>No. Because back then, there was no police force, or laws, or courts, or juries that are biased towards women.
So, if somebody walked into your house and snatched up your sister for a rape session, neither you, your dad, or your brothers would do shit about it? You would just call the police and let them deal with it? You think cavemen would just go "oh well, there are no police so this guy gets to take our women with impunity"
>Nope, cavemen didn't care about your social order.
The social order is the men working together to attain superior strength and protect their vulnerable (babies and the baby machines). Those who didn't care about navigating a social order were not able to stroll into the midst of a social order and rape the women.
MGTOW doesn't matter. One man can impregnate many women. If the genders were reversed it would be a problem.
Yes, but by a tribe that killed the other tribe. It wasn't some guy just going his own way. THat is all I'm saying: THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A TIME IN HISTORY WHERE NAVIGATING A SOCIAL ORDER WASN'T THE BEST WAY TO GET SEX.
>It wasn't that complex
Prove it.
MGTOW, as i understand that site, and movement, isn't there to 'make women suffer", it's to end the suffering of men who have rejected the Western mating ritual and marriage/divorce customs.
The point of MGTOW way is they don't give a fuck what the women they won't date think.
OP must be a woman, to thing that.
A casual glance at their site shows that many of them are divorced, and have kids.
Which means, they got laid a lot more than you did.
Go spend a month in the Middle East
>So, if somebody walked into your house and snatched up your sister for a rape session, neither you, your dad, or your brothers would do shit about it? You would just call the police and let them deal with it? You think cavemen would just go "oh well, there are no police so this guy gets to take our women with impunity"
I wouldn't be living with my sister / dad / brother in the first place, because I'm not a baby, and I don't want to have obligations towards them. But if I had a sister, and if she were raped by a strong, fast man, I would think that's how things are supposed to be. Do you think I'm going to deny her that experience (she wants it too), because she's my sister? What else would she even exist for? My fear would be a weakling "navigating the social structure" and then fucking my sister.
>The social order is the men working together to attain superior strength and protect their vulnerable (babies and the baby machines). Those who didn't care about navigating a social order were not able to stroll into the midst of a social order and rape the women.
The social order is about the weak coming together, specifically because they are weak, and then women stupidly think they enjoy it.
the social order requires a strong alpha male to guide all the sheep into doing whatever it is needed.
outsiders are not welcome because the alpha male decides who is an outsider and who is friendly. to most alpha males outsiders are enemies and are a threat to resources. this is why chads are hostile in real life.
I've always noticed that Chads are nice when you get to know them on a personal level.
The modern Chad is a disgrace though. Sup Forums and feminists never shut up about "men these days" and such, but the modern Chad is very effeminate and gay. And these guys are NEVER criticized for how THEY are ruining the institution of marriage and destroying the birth rates by shirking their responsibilities. Nope. Feminists and traditionalists, as usual, only criticize average and lower-tier men.
That's exactly how I felt when I tried online dating. I had to fill out an application and submit a resume, and then I got job interviews, where the women felt free to question my finances on the first interview...er..."date".
There's no seduction, no courting, no romance. Just ticking off boxes on a list.
Fuck that noise. At least with Tinder, there's no pretence, it's about penises getting into vaginas.
People don't know how to date anymore. It's either marriage after one date, or it's "chill and Netflix". Then they get married, as complete strangers, and are shocked - shocked I tell you! - when they get divorced.
no it isnt making a difference at all.
The kind of guys going MGTOW wont be missed
you have proof it's working
who cares about you trash you are scum retarded
I kind of think they don't want to be missed, and don't really give a fuck about women, or you.
Which means they kinda win.
But yet I see no proof that women are suffering in that way. Trust me, women don't care if men won't date them, because they'll all just flock to Chad regardless. And anyways, I see young couples all the time in real life.
>People should be concerned that strong, fast people aren't reproducing anymore, and now it's all about looking and acting like Justin Beiber.
Then why don't you traditionalists and feminists team up and start shaming the Chads and Stacys who have casual sex and never reproduce? Oh, that's right, they are the "cool" people so you just treat average and low-tier men like shit because they are an easy target and then you call it a day.
This, men are dropping out due to disgust of the system.
/redpill on
MGTOW is having no effect, because the only guys who join it are the ones no girl was paying attention to anyway.
/redpill off
Girl here. MGTOW is great because it just removes the losers from society, any real man still wants a woman by his side, the only guys who do this are pathetic manchildren who are pissed of they can't get a girl they feel they're entitled to.
In order to see the effects of going galt we're gonna have to wait 10-15 years as these millennial women start to notice guys wont marry them.
A fucking leaf is fighting against it.
That's all the evidence I need to know it's working.
Your bait is old and stinky.
...
I am not actively campaigning against it.
I am not a MGTOW, I see a few holes in the logic of it's philosophy. But at the same time, there is what people think, and then there is reality. I see no fucking PROOF that men are opting out and making women sad like any of you retarded spergs claim is happening. It's not happening.
Yes, western society is tragically hard on young men. It sucks, it's degenerate. The degeneracy is only getting worse and everyone lies about it, and then people also lie and say women have it hard when they have it easier than men. But we need to change what's going on here, not run away.
>flag
>And then they'll either be a single mother
Exactly this, I REFUSE to be a beta cuck provider.