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Still a better mom than the High Priestess
Julian Morgan
Dominic Sanders
>Shiva is her mom
>David Cain is her dad
>Batman is her step-dad
It's amazing Cass turned out as well as she did.
Ryder Cooper
she couldn't read
Mason Robinson
Neither can Floyd Mayweather, but he makes millions anyway.
Angel Carter
Like you're so perfect.
Aiden Morgan
OG Disco Shiva probably would have made a great murder mom.
Cameron Carter
Easton Kelly
>There will never be a story where Cass has to break into Shiva's secret lair to find hidden documents and discovers embarrassing 70s and 80s fashion Disco Shiva. Including the only single picture of Shiva with a Farah Fawcett hairdo.
Logan Martin
> We will never see Shiva's reaction to Cass finding out.
Caleb Baker
>"Daughter! What is the meaning of--no."
>"Yes."
>"Take those pants off right now, Cassandra."
>"Make me."
Juan Rivera
Why did they turn Shiva into some generic kung fu supervillain even after O'Neil's Question anyway?
Carter Rogers
Short answer? Because it's useful.
Long answer: after O'Neil brought her back in Question, she was used by Starlin as a full-fledged evil villainess in Death in the Family. And as it so happens with these things, more people were (and still are) reading that instead of Question. This characterization was further compounded by Dixon's Shiva, who appeared in the first Robin miniseries and later in Knightsend, always as a murderous trainer for the Batfamily, always with the "Ok, now you must kill to prove your worth!" shit.
Both writers used Shiva as more of a tool to advance the plot and to train other characters rather than explore her like the last half of Question V1 did. So the end result is that, for people who only read Bat-titles, that was all she was: an amoral or downright evil kung fu bitch working for the highest bidder who exists only to kill.
Things got a little better with Puckett's Batgirl V1, where Shiva actually got to use her healing skills again and was shown to have a little more depth (although I'll argue that the death wish thing at the end is still terribly OOC), but then came Hush, and Hush fucked everything over by linking her to the League of Assassins.
Ian Turner
Now, here's the thing: in Hush, she explicitly states she's only doing the LoA's bidding for the money. But just like with Death in the Family, because far, FAR more people read that than anything else, suddenly her being an LoA stooge was common knowledge. This was further compounded by the last arc of Batgirl, so despite things like Gail Simone's BoP (which still has a shitton of its own problems, like trying to give Shiva yet another origins he doesn't need) the whole LoA connection only deepened. And that's how we've gotten to this point where she's being literally used as panel filler in LoA arcs, or made into their leader for like two issues, or made into the boss of an even shadier variant of the League within the League itself because she always was a believer in Ra's' plan.
But ultimately, the problem with Shiva is that she's more useful to writers who don't really care about her as a murderous kung fu villainess. She's a (somewhat) menacing physical challenge. She's evil and sadistic so there's no problem in fighting her. She can appear at any time and anywhere. She's smug and overconfident so it feels gud to take her down a peg. And she's in the LoA so you can use her instead of making new minibosses. I can't stress this enough: there are no good stories about Shiva in the LoA. None at all. But because it's useful, that bullshit wormed its way into both Beware the Batman and Batman: Arkham Origins. And it's not likely to go away unless you get someone who's a massive Shiva and O'Neil fanboy (or O'Neil himself) to somehow write a mini or an OGN that is easily marketable, brings back all that characterization and becomes enough of a hit that it steers her character back on track.
Blake Thompson
Anywho, since user brought up OG Disco Shiva, let's fucking talk about OG Disco Shiva.
Jose Ortiz
Or OG 70s Pirate Queen Shiva.
Anthony Parker
Ahh, Guano Cravat. The industrialist and weapons dealer who paid an assassin called The Swiss to kill Carolyn Woosan as part of a plot to do... stuff...
Jason Hernandez
He also told Carolyn's sister, Sandra, that it was Richard Dragon who did the deed, and so Sandra vowed revenge and became an unstoppable force of kung fu annihilation to destroy him.
Hunter Robinson
And in the middle of their climactic duel, Guano straight-up went "Yeah man I totally had Carolyn killed" and Shiva turned on him, helping Dickie Dragon defeat him and hand him over to the forces of G.O.O.D.
Oh hai Ben.
Grayson Clark
Ahh, the 70s. Such a lawless time.
Grayson Reed
Anthony Edwards
Is Cass still illiterate in the current Tec run?
Lucas Hill
Aw shiiiiiiiiiit
Isaac Richardson
Brayden Rodriguez
>Oh, I have some medical skill!
Unless I'm missing something, this is the first time Shiva's healing abilities are mentioned.
In current comics, they haven't been mentioned since motherfucking Blackest Night. And they haven't had a notable use since she punched Cassandra's heart back to life.
Jace Rodriguez
Yeaaah, OG 70s Shiva was kind of a thrill-seeking bloodthirsty monster. And definitely not a shipper.
Robert Long
Parker Moore
Brandon Cook
Richard, for a Dick, you sure are a pussy.
John White
William Lee
... right.
Grayson Martinez
Gavin Price
Jaxon Gonzalez
And everything worked out OK in the end for everyone. Except Shiva, who didn't get to shank anyone. Maybe next time.
Blake Morales
There is a pretty racist joke there.
Kevin Fisher
>>Batman is her step-dad
Not canon.
Jose Harris
>>Shiva is her mom
>>David Cain is her dad
>>Batman is her step-dad
And her boyfriend.
Nolan Perry
Not yet!!
Wyatt Carter
Alright, lunch's done, so let's read up about the first time Lady Shiva crossed path with the League of Assassins.
Jason Gomez
Colton Smith
And what a body, hubba.
Caleb Cook
Lady Shiva: Mistress of Monkey Island Insult Swordfighting.
Hunter Sanchez
Kayden Ward
Caleb Gray
Cooper Taylor
Oh yeah, THOSE fucks. Also,
>"I TINGLE with the thought of approaching PERIL!"
Jesus Fuck, Shiva, why are you so thirsty?
Andrew Kelly
>:3
Bentley Lewis
Well, that was quick.
Nicholas Reed
Ryan Bell
Joshua Gutierrez
Julian Powell
Tyler Roberts
Dylan Cruz
Elijah Cooper
Luke Anderson
And that was the first time Shiva (and Dragon, but who cares about him?) ran into the League of Assassins.
And nearly forty years later...
Brandon Ortiz
...
Eli Sullivan
Yeah, how did that go again?
Jace Stewart
She just wants a good brawl
Leo Clark
Is it true that Richard Dragon is he best martial artist in DC?
Henry Evans
What I love about 70s Shiva's unquenchable bloodthirst is that it makes a weird kind of sense, when you consider she went from ostensibly a normal person to an unstoppable fighting machine in the name of revenge. And once she got that, well, she just couldn't go back to being a normal person. She had all that kung fu and nothing to use it for. So she goes around the run looking for danger and getting into fights because she's got nothing else to do. And by the time she shows up in Question, you can see how that has evolved into a different kind of motivation.
It's a bit difficult to gauge because he hasn't really appeared in a lot of series. He has this, his appearances in Question, his Dixon series (which I haven't read yet) and that one issue of Brave and the Bold where he teams up with Batman. But according to O'Neil's novelization of Question v1, he is definitely one of the top, alongside Shiva. And being the biggest disciple of the O-Sensei counts for a lot. So I'd chalk it up to sort of accepted canon that Richard is way up there. He's still no Karate Kid tho'.
Adam Davis
She's still the best-dressed DC Martial Artist tho'.
At least, when she's not cosplaying a Styracosaurus.
Bentley Lee
Shiva a thicc bitch
Ryder Campbell
A blanket would be a better mother than High Priestess. But yeah, Lady Shiva's not bad
Asher Adams
Gotta have them thighs. Can't kick a dude's head off without them thighs.
I always enjoyed those bits in the early Puckett Batgirl issues where Shiva, in her own way, understood Cass better than anyone else around her. They just had to ruin it with the death wish shit...
Brandon Wilson
And could barely speak.
Nolan Price
Crap, gotta go to work. If the thread's still alive when I get back, I'll be sure to storytime some Most Refined 80s Lady Shiva Question issues.
I mean, no reason why Cassandra should be the only one with the 500+ post thread, right?
David Brown
Yes.
Dominic Bailey
>No Shiva, we are not fighting an attack copter
>don't look at me like that.
Kevin Sullivan
I'm honestly vexed that out of all the DC characters, Shiva hasn't been in Injustice
Evan Taylor
Do they ever explain how the actual martial artists aren't just ruining everyone's shit in Injustice?
They take pills to put them on equal levels of strength and durability, so shouldn't someone who's actually good at fighting just rip everyone apart with super strength? Or someone with other powers like the Flash just be the absolute best?
Adam Miller
>Shiva comes home to find Cass in ugly disco gear
>I LEARNED IT FROM YOU!
Jaxon Rodriguez
Personally Im still miffed they tossed Babs in instead of Cass. But Im always miffed about that.
Jose Powell
> we are getting an omnibus of this run.
Jaxson Young
Complete lack of interest on the parts of the martial artists. Even Shiva isn't interested in this stupid bullshit.
Evan Morales
>fashion tips from a woman that dressed like a dinosaur
Chase Powell
I figured she show up part of Ra's army in the current comic.
Jayden Evans
> walk into a room. See this. What do you do?
Nathaniel Carter
Isn't it funny how good stories get forgotten but shit stories just get more and more reinforced into a narrative to the point it seems like you would rather people just don't use the character at all.
It's so funny how that happens.
Justin Martinez
I almost want to see a picture of Cassandra wearing that and Shiva facepalming at it.
Christopher Martinez
If she was, She'd be voice by Jennifer Hale.
Liam Scott
it does a reasonable background to the whole death wish in Batcass
Nicholas Bell
I wanna hear Zhang Zyi voice her.
Wyatt Powell
Kelly Hu. Don't break what's already perfect.
Austin Johnson
See, to me it'd only make sense if you completely ignored O'Neil's Question run. Like, if you could trace an unbroken line from OG 70s bloodthirsty pirate Shiva to Puckett's Shiva, then yeah, it'd make sense. But once you've read dat Question run, I just can't see Shiva as someone who wants to die.
And speaking of which!
Ryan Miller
Oliver Harris
Both good choices. I'd like to see Hu play her with actual, y'know, direction and good character. And if they had the money, I'd love to see Michelle Yeoh play her.
Thomas Bennett
Alright Sup Forums, game time: how long could you drool out your puerilities towards Lady Shiva?
Colton Cox
Kevin Foster
Here's something a lot of people seem to have missed about Shiva: she's not really that picky when it comes to employers. It's not like she only works for a certain class or clientele. Danger and opportunities to practice her skills are everywhere.
Adam Ward
>Michelle Yeoh play her.
See this is why I like you, Judge. Good taste.
Charles James
Alright, for those who haven't been following JSA Storytimer's Question threads, the status of Hub City is as follows:
- Myra Connolly has been elected mayor of the city.
- She was shot by her angry soon to be former husband at her inauguration.
- She spent months in the hospital and just recently awoke thanks to Literal Sigil Comic Book Magic.
- And now the city is a savage battleground of lawless anarchy and rampant crime.
- Again.
Andrew Miller
Dominic Sanchez
Jace Robinson
Liam Perez
Ayden Powell
It's worth noting that this was already foreshadowed by Shiva herself in the first two issues of Question, where her interest on Vic was spurred by sensing he was driven by an enjoyment of combat. Richard Dragon, who trained Vic, argued that it was curiosity that drove Vic. And right now, when the night is long and dark and full of horrors, Shiva's best seems the surest one.
Brody Thomas
Connor Long
Logan Taylor
I swear, the NERVE of some people!
Lincoln King