Between the Irkens and the Gems, who are better conquerers?

Xavier Foster
Xavier Foster

Between the Irkens and the Gems, who are better conquerers?
If they went to war, who would win?

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Blake Barnes
Blake Barnes

Irkens

Charles Williams
Charles Williams

Irkens

Gabriel Watson
Gabriel Watson

Irkens.
who would win?
Irkens would win but because of something really stupid and convoluted.

Jason White
Jason White

Irkens

Evan Morgan
Evan Morgan

Irkens
Send a child soldier and a robot to conquer a single planet
It actually works
Those fuckers turned a single planet into a fast food court

Liam Smith
Liam Smith

Why is everyone so wrong? Just because you don't like SU doesn't make the gems weak. They would absolutely win.

Lincoln Jones
Lincoln Jones

waaaah your answer isn’t what I want it to be

Connor Hall
Connor Hall

Rawr rawr rawr! Nobody understands you, she bear!

Cooper Bell
Cooper Bell

Gems are shit, mang.
Name one spacefaring race the Gems could beat.
Protip: lol you can't

Gavin Watson
Gavin Watson

Explain

Ian Lee
Ian Lee

Plutonians and Mooninites

Christian Russell
Christian Russell

Irkens
They've reached a point in their society where they invade planets for shits and giggles then turn them into giant food courts, parking structures and post offices
They also have the organic sweep but I don't know how effective that would be on gems, seeing as they aren't organic
They also have the Vortian scientists constantly building new shit for them, so even if they couldn't beat the gems from the start, their ability to progress in an arms race far surpasses that of the gems

Jose Miller
Jose Miller

implying

Kevin Turner
Kevin Turner

The Irkens are a literal war machine. They have the numbers, the tech, if the tallest aren’t fucking around and snacking then good leadership.

Asher Cox
Asher Cox

It doesn't help that literally every Gem shown so far could probably be killed by a normal human who was a half decent shot with a rifle if he knew what he was aiming for.

The Gems, as a race, are a fucking joke.

Brody Evans
Brody Evans

user, Earth can beat up the Plutonians

Caleb Howard
Caleb Howard

Gems too.

Aaron Reed
Aaron Reed

As invaders, the Irkens will send a single agent to take over a planet. That's Saiyan-tier conquest.
As a military force, the Irken flagship, The Massive, is large enough to destroy an entire planet by ramming it, if they have no other choice.

Jose Moore
Jose Moore

Didn't Bismuth had to make a stupidly impractical weapon just to kill Gems?

Jordan Wilson
Jordan Wilson

Reminder that Invader Larb could take over Homeworld in a few days

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Justin Reyes
Justin Reyes

Irkens can travel between galaxies in seconds, I'd say them.

Brayden James
Brayden James

Shhh you're violating the groupthink with logic and facts

Matthew Hughes
Matthew Hughes

Irkens could mass produce them on a planet conquered to produce that single item
The Irkens have more technology and resources at their fingertips than they know what to do with

Daniel Foster
Daniel Foster

Please enlight us. The facts about Irken superiority have been made, if you think the gems are so whoopy doopy you can post your proof freely, no one is tying your fingers to prevent you from writing.

Ian Nguyen
Ian Nguyen

irkens turn planets into snackbars
And gems turn them into cold dead rocks or nurseries.
one irken took over one planet
Slowly, and the methods used would flat out not work on gems who habe fanatical devotion to leaders and are artificial beings.
Vortians always making new shit
As do the gems, you thought this was unique?
every gem so far can be killed by a normal human
Poofed, not killed. The threshold for shattering has been inconsistent to say the least, ranging from just stepping on one to requiring specialized equipment with extreme force. I should point out that Ikrens can die the same way, though.

Not to mention the numbers game, there are simply way more gems, and they also are.capable of reproducing much faster since they have no growth period at all. Some single gems can do thinks like dehydrate an entire planet, or some have future vision. Basically gems have a clear strong advantage.

Juan Gonzalez
Juan Gonzalez

This is like the 5th time I've seen this same thread so I know it's been made more.

Every time, it's the Irkens

Gabriel King
Gabriel King

That was a response to an actual reason, too busy patting yourself on the back for your clever snarkiness to read?

Aaron Nelson
Aaron Nelson

That's to kill-kill them, and via melee. There's nothing to indicate though that a gem's gem would be harder to destroy than a literal gem of that type.

In any case, Bismuth's weapon was basically a giant jackhammer, compared to the sorts of weaponry the Irkens can wield like planet destroying weapons.

Christian Jones
Christian Jones

This tiny, diminutive and ugly Irken not only took Blorch, home of the Slaughtering Rat People, he did it shortly before any other Invader
If he can take a planet in under a year, imagine what competent irkens can do

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Ayden Hall
Ayden Hall

There have been on-screen two methods of destroying planets that the gems habe used (the cluster and the group diamond ray that was unnamed) and we know many planets have been turned to an asteroid belt so I assume they have a few more methods or can repeat the shown methods easily.

Henry Moore
Henry Moore

Vortians always making new shit
As do the gems
I don't think anyone is saying the gems don't, but an enslaved world of brilliant scientists, who built the Massive, will be churning out more gear quicker than a dedicated caste within the Homeworld

Eli Sanchez
Eli Sanchez

capable of reproducing much faster since they have no growth period at all
How fucking long do they need to stay in the ground before their ready to pop out?
Plus we've been explicitly told they've been running out of resources, and have had to cut quality on new gems as a result.
So no, they aren't going to be producing any instant, massive new armies.

James Wilson
James Wilson

reproducing much faster since they have no growth period at all

Completely false. Not only are they reliant on growing gems out of planets and such, but they can only get a limited number of them per planet and it takes time for them to "cook". They're constrained by some geological process. Irkens by contrast are biological and advanced enough where they could, if they needed to, just shit out hordes of them via in-vitro and test tube babies (which they kind of already do). There's some good points to what you said, but the gems are heavily limited in number because of how difficult it is for them to reproduce.

John Collins
John Collins

Headcanon theory. Gems have people literally born designed to make shit, same thing. Claiming one is faster than the other is just a shot in the dark.

David Hill
David Hill

Irkens

Levi White
Levi White

Both sides lose once Zim gets himself involved.

Jordan Cooper
Jordan Cooper

The cluster took, what, 6000 years to prepare and had to be implanted within a planet? And it wasn't even a typical weapon, it's like the cobbled together massed of shattered gems. Like they basically scoured the gem battlefiends to make it, it's not a standard fare "gem weapon" as much as it is an ugly fix to a problem they had lying around.

As for the group diamond ray, it clearly didn't destroy planets nor was capable because Earth is still fine and it's still full of life. If anything, all it does is just kill or corrupt gems planetwide.

Tyler Parker
Tyler Parker

Growth period =/= gestation period. Gems are "born" educated and skilled. They also are not running out of resources, they simply couldn't establish a new nursery on one world because of other gems. Planets eventually dry up, and it would be the same for the Irkens.

David Campbell
David Campbell

All the Gems would have to do is break the snack pods in the Massive and everything goes to shit for the Irkens
Remember Dib's Wonderful Life of Doom?

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Camden Powell
Camden Powell

On homeworld gems that don't come out perfect are shattered. It's not necessarily made of bodies. And we are led to believe that the diamond beam would have destroyed earth or at least life on earth if it weren't for the crystal gems. Besides all This, we still know planets have been all but vaporized by the gems in the past.

Wyatt Rivera
Wyatt Rivera

is there a worse empire than this?

irkens, gems actually conquer.

cons for all their destructive tendencies don't seem to actually conquer much. they just expand the theaters of operations in their war with the autobots.

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Levi Hughes
Levi Hughes

no bc they wud just make sumthing to stop that

Austin King
Austin King

Shall we compare Zim's innovations to Peridot's?Keep in mind that Peridot is one of the people "literally born designed to make shit" while Zim is regarded as too incompetent to send even on a suicide invasion. He was a junior-level fry cook.

Ian Cruz
Ian Cruz

Ehh, while the snack thing may be true; I don't think a computer simulation designed to get a big-headed, little boy to admit he threw a muffin would make it look that easy.

Carter Allen
Carter Allen

Just basing off the fact that in the show and comics, the Vortians seem to be constantly creating new weaponry for the Irkens alot more than we see new weaponry for the gems
Vort is now Irk's top millitary research prison, so one could expect an entire planet's worth working by force would be making more advancements
However, I think it's neutered by the fact that the Vortians seem to add flaws to the shit they give the Irkens out of spite

Sebastian Flores
Sebastian Flores

Irkens by contrast are biological and advanced enough where they could, if they needed to
This is basically the crux of the disagreement. Giving Irkens the benefit of the doubt that with prep time they could do literally anything.

Jose Torres
Jose Torres

Hey, man, we're all autists in here discussing shows aimed to kids. There's no need to act like a 12 year old, fucking SUfag.

Aaron Harris
Aaron Harris

Irks are born educated and skilled, they shove the PAKs on them at birth which is like installing wikipedia into them day one. As for resources, it comes down to who controls more worlds, more space. The Gempire is indeterminite in size, but those murals of each diamond seem as good evidence as any to figure out how many planets they own. Maybe more but it certainly doesn't come across like they own the whole universe. The Irkens for sure don't either but they're having to throw darts at a map of space to find places new that they haven't yet conquered.

I don't see how that addresses the issue. The cluster still took millenia to mature to be ready, and it still had to be implanted into a planet.

As for the diamond beam destroying earth or life on it, I'd like to see evidence of that. All I've seen so far was an account of them zapping at the planet, and Rose shielded herself and two others from the effect, not saved the whole world or all life.

Nathan Sanders
Nathan Sanders

And we are led to believe that the diamond beam would have destroyed earth or at least life on earth if it weren't for the crystal gems.

Were we? What I got out of that was that it was all Rose could do to just protect a handful of her closest friends, and outside of that the attack was completely successful.
Maybe the corrupted gems could have exterminated humanity without the CGs constantly fighting them off? You'd need a planet full of gems to sacrifice for that.though.

Mason Martin
Mason Martin

Just on durability and weapons alone, the Irkens win easily.
Isn't SU's current mystery whether one of their four most powerful gems was killed with a sword?
Versus Irkens who can survive all sorts of stupid shit and have mechs and robot soldiers.

Aaron Jenkins
Aaron Jenkins

Peridot is one of the people "literally born designed to make shit"
No, Peridot is an operator not an inventor. And still she makes a spacefaring rocket and a drill to the center of the earth with random shit from a barn. Zim also has the backing of his species and a robot sidekick for what he does.

Vortians seem to add flaws to the shit they give the Irkens out of spite
I didn't actually no that so thanks. But gems make something new immediately when they need to. As unaging artificial beings invention is driven by necessity rather than boredom.

Colton Powell
Colton Powell

Then why does Peridot tell us that they've been reducing the quality of new gems to ration resources?

Charles Collins
Charles Collins

They also are not running out of resources
Shall I quote Peridot's words at you? You've watched the show, right?

Planets eventually dry up, and it would be the same for the Irkens.
Irkens aren't bound to planets, and they aren't limited to fantastically rare, vaguely-defined resources that can "dry up" leaving a physically intact planet behind. To paraphrase Cave Johnson, the Irkens can use a whole lot more planet per planet.

Is there a single way in which the Irkens don't have a massive advantage here?

Nathan Clark
Nathan Clark

My point though was just the contrast in time because of how the gem race is not organic and the Irkens are. The problem is we don't know how long it takes for a gem to cook, but I think it's safe to say it wouldn't be near as short as organic gestation time would be.

Also the issue that, if gems want more gems they need to go to a planet and set up nurseries because they need planet minerals and space to grow. Irkens, well they can birth themselves wherever they want, they just need their medical equipment. Resources, space, etc... aren't as big a factor. Though a fair point on prep time.

Jonathan Bell
Jonathan Bell

Zim also has the backing of his species and a robot sidekick for what he does.
It sounds like you haven't watched the show at all.

Carson Roberts
Carson Roberts

What have the Vortians built canon-wise for the Irkens?
The Megadoomer
The Massive
The Vortian Liquid Zim used to make a giant Lovecraftian Santa out of
Doomsday technology inside Minimoose
Am I missing anything?

Aaron Moore
Aaron Moore

Thanks for pointing that out. In the back of my mind I'd recalled something like that being said. I didn't take it as to mean like, the gem civlization is in decline in terms of reproduction, but it definitely is an important detail for sure.

Eli Foster
Eli Foster

As inorganic beings that don't eat, homeworld gems would have neither the concept of "snack" nor the psychological insight of its importance to the Irkens.

Angel Allen
Angel Allen

Zim also has the backing of his species and a robot sidekick for what he does

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Thomas Morales
Thomas Morales

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Anthony Martin
Anthony Martin

What I want to know is how Dib would react to the gems

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Julian Cooper
Julian Cooper

those murals of each diamond seem as good evidence
They really aren't. They show White has one world which can't be true. Guessing that the circles means "worlds owned" is just a fan theory.

I don't see how that addresses the issue
It wasn't meant to completely dismiss your argument, just a point of order. I don't really view arguing over this little thing as worthwhile since we do know they are capable of dusting planets even if we don't know how.

Isn't SU's current mystery whether one of their four most powerful gems was killed with a sword? The mystery is that the sword couldn't have done it so what really happened.

On homeworld. On one planet.

Irkens aren't bound to planets, and they aren't limited to fantastically rare, vaguely-defined resources that can "dry up"
Well, frankly they are. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Matter and energy can't be created or destroyed, their food and fuel has to come from somewhere. When talking about who is more efficient that's just spitballing headcanons, but the fact is both need resources, they jist need different ones.

What, you think he worked part-time at McDonald's to pay for all the metal to build his expansive underground base? Or were the materials handed to him by his race? You make it sound like he was dropped naked with a torch.

Logan Sanchez
Logan Sanchez

Well I mean even from a practical standpoint it's an issue. The gems are a spacefaring and mighty civilization in their setting for sure, but in terms of sci-fi they're... kind of primitive. They use melee weapons to fight, they physically engage one another. The most powerful of them have more impressive powers, and their vehicles and defenses are capable of things like lasers and missiles. But your average gem being, they'll do something like pull out a spear to fight you. Their space ships fly up to you within sight range to zap you.

The Irkens on the other hand are obviously advanced. It's like imagining a situation where a gem fleet is approaching to engage once they can see the enemy, whereas the Irkens just long range scan and fire some missiles to hit them a solar system away. A feat like that wouldn't even be difficult for them from what's shown in the show and by basic sci-fi standards.

James Collins
James Collins

That one world belonging to white could be Homeworld, that's not something to sneeze at.

Cameron Myers
Cameron Myers

Still very unlikely, and still just a theory. Steven stood trial on homeworld and the judges were Yellow and Blue, not white. I don't think any one gem owns homeworld.

Charles Clark
Charles Clark

Shall we compare Zim's innovations to Peridot's?

Okay let's
Has a space station capable of taking large bodies of water sending them back as giant water balloons.
built a time machine
genetically modified a tiny hamster and transform it into a giant kaiju
reversed engineered instant teleportation technology that took several Vortain brains to create. (Issue 4 of the comic)
Taking an unfinished episode into account, was literally born to be a scientist before being demoted to frycook and that was because he created a giant blob monster that killed the previous two Tallest.

There is probably more science shit Zim has done that I don't remember at the moment.

What notable things has Peridot done besides a few robots and a drill that burrows to the center of the earth?

Kayden Carter
Kayden Carter

Would the gems be subject to the stupidity that everyone in Zim's universe suffers from?

Isaiah Brown
Isaiah Brown

they're not child soldiers, they're over hundreds if not thousands of years old

Justin Green
Justin Green

No but they'd be subject to the stupidity of their own setting.

We've got to fight a war against these green organic aliens!
Hold on, I have to cry for a bit and tangle with my feelings.

William Wood
William Wood

They gave Zim the shitty defects if anything
Look what they did with GIR in comparison to the SIR unit
Alternatively, he could have had it left over from Operation Impending Doom 1, where he was actually supposed to be an Invader and maybe had some of the basic invader shit stashed away

Michael Watson
Michael Watson

What I'm getting is that you haven't watched either show very attentively. And yet you imagine yourself to be better informed than the thread full of autists disagreeing with you.

Nolan Howard
Nolan Howard

I didn't claim that the entire Irken army had his back, I'm saying he had help. Peridot has a barn.

Aiden Reed
Aiden Reed

He also managed to take control of the Massive across the universe once Prisoner 777 gave him the Massive schematics

Christian Nelson
Christian Nelson

I don't know what you think is going on but he isn't the one making the long grouped posts defending the gems, I am.

Nathan Brooks
Nathan Brooks

Same way he treats Zim. Wanting to opening them up to see how they work then rubbing it in people's faces to show that he's right.

Easton Adams
Easton Adams

Give ZIM some battle tank and giant robots
Drop him on Homeworld
Irkens literally cannot lose. They either get rid of ZIM or take over the planet

Adrian Hill
Adrian Hill

but the fact is both need resources, they jist need different ones.
My point is that the resources the Irkens use are twenty orders of magnitude more common. Thirty or more if you toss in mass-energy conversion. Can you comprehend this difference? Resource limits aren't fully described by a finite/infinite binary.

Cooper Hughes
Cooper Hughes

This is a pretty fair point im willing to concede, but what it really boils down to is that they exist in different universes and it's kind of apples and oranges, and that's just less fun to talk about.

Mason Allen
Mason Allen

silly user
everyone loses when zim is involved

Caleb Turner
Caleb Turner

You have no basis to establish this claim, it's just an assumption.

Aiden Price
Aiden Price

I didn't claim that the entire Irken army had his back, I'm saying he had help. Peridot has a barn.

The closing thing Zim has to an ally is Prisoner 777 who secretly gives Zim tech and info under the Irken's non-existentant noses.

Oh yeah, Zim can hack too. He can also change a person's D.N.A into baloney.

Jaxon Miller
Jaxon Miller

And that's because he has Prisoner 777's children hostage

Isaac Brooks
Isaac Brooks

The closing thing Zim has to an ally is
The sprawling network of advanced alien tech and base of operations granted to him by his people? We're you going to finish the sentence with that? Give Zim nails and a few planks of wood and see if he can reprogram someone's DNA with that.

Adrian Gutierrez
Adrian Gutierrez

Would gems be stupid enough to fall for the average invader's disguise?

Isaiah Reed
Isaiah Reed

What, you think he worked part-time at McDonald's to pay for all the metal to build his expansive underground base?
The Tallest tossed some junk together they had lying around together to make GIR. The rest of Zim's stuff was his PAK (implanted at "birth"), his ship (the equivalent of a third-hand beater car, possibly stolen) and the stuff he bootstrapped from them. Pretty much everything else he does is his own work made from local materials. There's a reason why a single competent invader is regarded as more than a match for entire planetary civilizations.

Evan Ward
Evan Ward

No. They have scanning drones, and have no tolerance even if a gem is so much as off-color.

Camden Carter
Camden Carter

Right, so you're admitting he got some things for free then? I mean you just listed off everything he got. I'll remind you Peridot has a barn and absolutely nothing from homeworld.

Anthony Mitchell
Anthony Mitchell

What about the cybernetics and ship Peridot had?

Christian Lewis
Christian Lewis

Ship was destroyed in orbit along with all cybernetics except for a boot that served no function aside from being a boot.

Andrew Anderson
Andrew Anderson

Earth mass: 6E24 kg
Earth composition: metals and minerals, the building blocks of technology of the sort humans and Irkens use
Gem use of Earth: a few million(?) kg of magical resources made into gems and whatever else

Whether they can use conventional materials or not, the shortage of the magical stuff is a severe constraint on the growth of their civilization. And yes, by indications, that is a ludicrous inferiority in resource base compared to the Irkens.

Brandon Sanchez
Brandon Sanchez

It's never really gonna be fair in that reguard, cause Zim always has his pak, and if he doesn't he's got like 15 minutes or something until he dies, so either way Zim's always gonna have something.

Benjamin Cox
Benjamin Cox

Not only is that a total assgrab of how much they used, it also doesn't prove either sides point at all. We simply don't know the rate at which gems and Irkens use resources, we just know that they both must depend on them to some degree.

Isaac Johnson
Isaac Johnson

Thats my point, comparing Zim to someone like Peridot is fruitless.

Ayden Jackson
Ayden Jackson

Ship was destroyed in orbit
Ship crash landed, leaving piles of debris that the Gems collected. Peridot also had access to the various still-functional Gem ruins around Earth.

Matthew Morales
Matthew Morales

Would ZIM try and stop the Cluster from happening or would he just take credit

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John Murphy
John Murphy

Irrelevant. Peridot isn't cannibalizing any of those and isn't in pursuit of planet conquering. She spends her time making art, and again is an Operator not an Inventor. When it was called on her to make something to made functional crafts out of barn supplies.

William Ortiz
William Ortiz

we just know that they both must depend on them to some degree
Resource limits aren't fully described by a finite/infinite binary.

The Xeelee have a poorly-delineated but finite resource base, and so do the Smurfs. Therefore, we have no idea which civilization has more resources to fuel a hypothetical war effort. This is you. See how that's silly?

Liam Nelson
Liam Nelson

And Zim is mentally handicapped, built a time machine, and created a way to change anyone into baloney.

Jeremiah Phillips
Jeremiah Phillips

I feel like you're really not reading my posts here.

Blake Cruz
Blake Cruz

Should I keep repeating that she has no resources? Or I'll repeat asking if could do that if he had only a hammer and nails? Or repeat that Peridot isn't an inventor? How many times should i go over this before you realize its not a useful comparison?

Brayden Price
Brayden Price

Does he want to conquer the Earth or just destroy it.

Jackson Lee
Jackson Lee

What, you think he worked part-time at McDonald's to pay for all the metal to build his expansive underground base? Or were the materials handed to him by his race? You make it sound like he was dropped naked with a torch.
Zim was sent to earth because the almighty tallest didn't know it existed, they just wanted to get rid of him, they don't care about earth and they just want Zim dead

Lucas Turner
Lucas Turner

Oh? She built that drill with a hammer and nails? How about the robot she fought Pearl with?
And Zim isn't an inventor either. He isn't even an invader. He's a retarded runaway fry cook.

Andrew Martin
Andrew Martin

Irrelevant
Extremely relevant, as it means she has a much bigger tech base to work from than Zim did. Zim's invasion force was the Irken equivalent of a McDonalds worker, his alleged car, and the Furby his bosses gave him as a going-away present. Peridot had the equivalent of an abandoned military depot.

Ryder Parker
Ryder Parker

The Irkens are incompetent by design. The Gems are incompetent by accident.

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Joshua Reed
Joshua Reed

FUCKING XENOS!

Jack Brown
Jack Brown

Tak by herself had a working plan to replace the core with candy.

Zim by himself has the tools to conquer the planet, even when they are just broken garbage compared to normal invader gear.

The tallest knows there are always more planets where as Gems need a specific planet to live.

They'd win and turn Gem home world into a tacky tourist shop. Gem weapons only really work well on other gems. they aren't used to fighting an equal or stupidly power enemy. Gems are only good at colonizing. Irkens wage war all the time. Gems are also dependent on other classes to do their bit to keep the empire going. That's not to say they couldn't defend themselves but the tallest all they have to do is drop zim off somewhere near by homeworld and tell him not to touch a thing.

William Bennett
William Bennett

Hot.

Wyatt Bennett
Wyatt Bennett

She built it with shit she found in a barn, yes.

It's not being she didn't use any of it. Also are you saying her boot is more tech than his pack? Or are you claiming gem technology is superior to irken technology so it counts as more? You can make your "equivalent of a car" claims but then you'd have to continue that saying he did the "equivalent of" a macaroni artwork. The fact is he had a massive technological backing that he didn't scrap together from dirt on earth, he was given it. I don't even know why we're arguing this, it's a flat out fact.

Christian Watson
Christian Watson

Gems need a specific planet to live
Factually incorrect.

Brandon Taylor
Brandon Taylor

I'll remind you Peridot has a barn and absolutely nothing from homeworld.
She got a ship, a guard, robots, limb enhancers and more

Eli Gonzalez
Eli Gonzalez

Zim is a narcissist. The only way he would take credit is if he somehow took control of the Cluster himself and ordered it to destroy Earth. If not, he would stop it because the Earth is his proclaimed property to conquer/destory.

Wyatt Gonzalez
Wyatt Gonzalez

She built it with shit she found in a barn, yes.
And the gem ruins. Those being a thing that exists in Steven Universe's Earth. And which provide the Crystal Gems and Peridot with a bunch of technology and resources just sitting there.

Cooper Ortiz
Cooper Ortiz

Really doubling down on this "not reading any of my posts" thing aren't you? She never uses any of that, left the scraps at the bottom of the sea. Theres no reason to since she has no objective on earth and no antagonist like Zim does. This is such a useless comparison I can't believe it's still going on.

Henry Thompson
Henry Thompson

Peridot was made to be a Zim reference

Kayden Long
Kayden Long

Irkens outclass Gems simply on a basis of speed and efficiency.

They strike fast and hard, and work very quickly. They're unpredictable and overwhelming. Capable of razing an entire planet in a surprisingly short amount of time.

Gem tactics are more of a slow burn centered around micromanagement and precision. They typically target undeveloped worlds to avoid wasting time with warfare, and aren't experienced in military invasion as a result. They are only well-versed in fighting other gems, as civil wars seem to be their only source of combat. They simply wouldn't be able to keep up with a full scale Irken mobilization tempo.

The only advantage Gems have is being harder to kill individually. But it wouldn't matter much with how vastly outnumbered they would be against the Irkens.

Owen Sanchez
Owen Sanchez

Wasn't used for the drill.

And Garnet references DBZ but I wouldn't compare her to Goku, that's just stupid.

Caleb Walker
Caleb Walker

The homeworld gems. They destroyed Russia, influenced the economy, and can create global tsunamis

William Carter
William Carter

How come?

Robert Parker
Robert Parker

I think the line blurs with ZIM sometimes
Your exile- er, mission... is to observe the planet, Zim, not annihilate it.
Yes, but, I'm quite GOOD at annihilating!

Kayden Russell
Kayden Russell

he was given it
He was given GIR. He IS his PAK (like other Irkens, his mind resides in the PAK rather than his brain, and it's effectively a part of his body. Think of it as the Irken equivalent of the gem itself.). His ship was procured through unknown means. It would have been affordable on a fry cook's wages, or he could have stolen it. The rest of his stuff, he bootstrapped from that. Is your point that the Irkens' highly advanced technology gives ZIm an unfair advantage when comparing his feats to those of gems? Why yes, it does. That's kind of a big advantage the Irkens have over the gem civilization. Combined with their other advantages, it makes OP' question rather straightforward, if entertaining to argue about.

Ryder Walker
Ryder Walker

It's just flat out never claimed. They need rock to reproduce, and nothing to sustain. Nothing about rock is unique to any one planet.

Robert Nguyen
Robert Nguyen

for starters i'm a different user, she totally did use all of that stuff and it seems like you under the impression that peridot is still working for homeworld

Adam Rivera
Adam Rivera

how exactly does their economic system work?

frieza is powerful enough (cooler and cold implied) to be a planet buster in his first form so they can practically conquer any planet they want but instead they sell it to anyone who has the creds.

why not rule it for themselves?

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Cameron Morales
Cameron Morales

Is your point that the Irkens' highly advanced technology gives ZIm an unfair advantage when comparing his feats to those of gems?
I'm saying he has technology and Peridot is literally naked. How is this conversation still going? So what if he needs his pak to live, he still has it, it's still an advantage.

Cooper Williams
Cooper Williams

ZIM beat HOBO 678 in single combat and Skoodge was fired out of an orbital canon into the planet and survived
Irkens are pretty tough

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David Nguyen
David Nguyen

Don't know why Peridot vs Zim is being argued.
The real question is Homeworld vs a nice big box full of defective SIR units.

Adam Bailey
Adam Bailey

he'd stop it I doubt someone with such an ego would ever let anyone else take his win

William Thomas
William Thomas

And Garnet references DBZ but I wouldn't compare her to Goku, that's just stupid.
garnet isn't a dragon ball reference and peridot and zim have lots of similarities

Angel Scott
Angel Scott

Didn't he steal the ship when he first escaped Foodcourtia for the Great Assigning 2?

Brandon Harris
Brandon Harris

I don't know what to say other than that she didn't. She briefly pursued interest in getting her cybernetics back and then abandoned that. She doesn't use any of it. And I'm not claiming she works for homeworld, I'm saying the opposite, she has no objective so no reason to invent as Zim does.

Gabriel Perry
Gabriel Perry

Invaders are most likely enhanced.
We can't be quite sure that every class of Irken will share the same resilience.
Also, IZ is very cartoony

Jaxon Thomas
Jaxon Thomas

He'd do the same thing he did to Tak's plan
Ruin it
Brag about ruining it
Realize it's a good plan
Try to take credit

Josiah Richardson
Josiah Richardson

There was literally an entire episode about her similarities to DBZ. And j ist because Peridot is aesthetically similar doesn't mean comparing inventions is useful at all. Again, WHY are we still talking about this one fucking stupid useless fruitless idiotic comparison instead of the real question?

Angel Bennett
Angel Bennett

Did you miss the part where the drill is mostly built from Peridot's escape pod and an injector head salvaged from a Kindergarden? Because that happened in the show you're basing your arguments on.

Evan Gray
Evan Gray

Why isn't most of Earths system colonized then? Mars, the moons of Jupiter, Earth's moon, Mercury? Why are the planets in this out of date mural are only a handful instead of wide spread? I'm assuming they need specially mineral rich planets.

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Sebastian Ross
Sebastian Ross

Quick question, do Irkens need paks to live, or is it just that they can't be removed without killing them? Seems similar to shattering a gem if the second, and a huge weakness if the first.

Xavier King
Xavier King

Strong too. Zim has shown to overpower adult humans, and is capable of lifting Gaz who is roughly his own size over his head.

This

Eli Brown
Eli Brown

Didn't they call out Skoodge on surviving the cannon shot in that episode?
Skoodge? I thought the Tallest killed you
Yeah but I'm okay now
Alternatively, his body was destroyed and his pack was attached to another Skoodge-like smeet or Irken

Adrian White
Adrian White

they need specially mineral rich planets
considering the beta kindergarten only exists because they were strapped for resources (and how jasper being perfect defies expectations) says 'yes'.

Oliver Roberts
Oliver Roberts

There is a base on Earths moon, that mural depicting number of planets owned is unconfirmed fan theory, and probably from the simple idea that earth is first being the biggest non-gas-giant planet and the others were planned afterwards.

Joseph Price
Joseph Price

We have no idea because we never see any sort of indication that there's any structure or function to the Frieza Force beyond "X low power level goons at the current location who will all die by the end of the arc, + Frieza and a lieutenant." It's pretty frustrating, really.

Sebastian Torres
Sebastian Torres

The Pak is the Irken, the body is just a meat puppet
ZIM's PAK has attached to a chair and to Dib and has taken over both, uploading ZIM's consciousness into them

Hunter Bennett
Hunter Bennett

The Irken IS the Pak so they need a body to survive. But when the Pak is removed from the body, the body will slowly shut down the wither away.

Kayden Morgan
Kayden Morgan

Peridot is literally naked
With a planet full of working gem ruins, her escape pod, and the remains of her ship. Which is orders of magnitude more than Zim had to work with. The PAK is directly equivalent to Peridot's gem. Each was built by the reproductive technology of their respective civilization, and each constitutes the being of the person involved as well as a basic toolkit that they use to build better tools.

Austin Rivera
Austin Rivera

Isn't that a major limiting factor of reproduction then? The cost of production can't be that low, and they must be powered in addition to "powering" the meat suit with food. Also if the pak is the Irken, why are they so different in personality and capability?

Wyatt Rogers
Wyatt Rogers

they need specially mineral rich planets
"yes they do"
So how is me saying Gems need a specific planet to live wrong then when you just agreed with me?

Aiden Nguyen
Aiden Nguyen

Maybe. I don't recall it being explicit.

Caleb Brooks
Caleb Brooks

Anything I say would just be repeating something you've ignored, this topic is so retarded that I'm just not humoring you any more and instead engage with people who don't have down syndrome on actual comparisons.

Matthew Flores
Matthew Flores

most have the emotional stability of young children
hell, the tallest act like spoiled teenagers on a power trip

Ayden Carter
Ayden Carter

unconfirmed theory
Not true for now as Pink is only shown to have 1 planet and that's what's depicted. They only seemed to be interested in Earth.

Owen Wood
Owen Wood

the virgin paranormal investigator vs the chad invader

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James Stewart
James Stewart

He is agreeing with you, I wasnt. Its pretty clear the difference in opinion, I dont know why you'd get that mixed up.

Daniel Hughes
Daniel Hughes

because I am gay and in love with my own ass.

Jackson Morgan
Jackson Morgan

It could easily be an indication of rank or power. The murals are show to be identical on different planets when they should have changed over time. It's just fan theory.

Robert Perez
Robert Perez

ye

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Landon Stewart
Landon Stewart

Tallest are the same age as ZIM, so they are spoiled teenagers on a powertrip
youtube.com/watch?v=QzrE1K0FGLw
It seems like they mass produce the bodies then install the Pak
They never really explained how the personalities varied other than a unfinished episode saying ZIM's Pak data was very corrupted and out of the norm

Gavin Howard
Gavin Howard

Just because the Paks are produced off-screen doesn't mean there wouldn't be a production cost.

Brandon Lee
Brandon Lee

Never stated otherwise

Matthew Carter
Matthew Carter

When your a giant, cartoony empire like the Irkens, I suppose resources are not an issue. Hell, they have a planet specifically for different things such as shipping and delivering or parking lots. Also newborn bodies are grown in test tubes.

Connor Wright
Connor Wright

They're planet flippers

Jason Morgan
Jason Morgan

Seems pretty similar to gems desu. Only difference are gems need resources to reproduce, not to live. And they have no civilians, only soldiers who are all perfect or perfect enough.

Chase Murphy
Chase Murphy

The real question is what do they really need to buy that they can't just take?

Juan Ross
Juan Ross

Gems, since the diamonds are taller than most Irkens.

Matthew Barnes
Matthew Barnes

Only difference are gems need resources to reproduce, not to live. And they have no civilians, only soldiers who are all perfect or perfect enough.

The creator himself stated that Irkens by nature are the ultimate consumerists. They want nothing more then to conquer planets and exploit resources for crap they don't even need.

James Gonzalez
James Gonzalez

They aren't thieves!

Leo Nelson
Leo Nelson

What a that got to do with it?

Lucas Long
Lucas Long

Probably the Irkens.

Gems:

easily dispatched by an obese midget and three lesbians, at least one of whom is a literal deformed retard
can be killed with a sledgehammer
have either extremely specific firepower that requires up-close combat or area effect weapons that seem to only hurt their own forces as much as not
leadership is totally incompetent, gets bamboozled by an obese 14 year old midget who they could easy just wipe out were it not for plot contrivances
animators don't believe in model sheets

Irkens:

turned an entire planet into a food court for shits and giggles
leadership completely respected by all Irkens
can and do BTFO humans whenever the situation requires it
actually conquers other planets
can't be killed by being stabbed
smartest humans alive are still about on-par with one evil genius Irken, and the Irken still wins

I don't really think this is a contest. The Irkens would win immediately.

Ethan Lopez
Ethan Lopez

we will never see them develop a shit hole like namek to sell for tons of profit.

Lincoln Cooper
Lincoln Cooper

I think what he's saying is the gem's need for resources is based off an actual need whereas the Irkens need resources/search for them purely for their consumerist livestyles

Cameron Wilson
Cameron Wilson

If you seriously put "Irkens respect their leaders" as a point in their favor then yo really don't know enough about the gems.

Justin Stewart
Justin Stewart

The gems expand only to do so. They don't need food or entertainment or any resources to live. They only need resources to reproduce, that's all.

Samuel White
Samuel White

I think the key point was
All Irkens
Whereas the Diamonds obviously have some resistance or else there wouldn't have been a civil war

Bentley James
Bentley James

It's was a completely unique one time thing. Gems literally get in competitions about who loves their Diamond more and who's is better.

Sebastian Roberts
Sebastian Roberts

Irkens are succesful because every other species in their universe is beyond stupid, once a irken invaded a planet of rock people while his costume was a rock glued to his head. Hard to know how would they deal with actual inteligent beings

Kevin Anderson
Kevin Anderson

considering the even the most powerful gems are dumb enough to think steven is a gem not a human, it'd be pretty easy for irkens.
just send an irken and put sequin sticker on his head and boom you got peridot irkens have a huge advantage since sugar just ripped off peridot after zim.
some dumb teenager was able to become a space pirate and steal their fastest ship, an irken soldier trained in infiltration and sabotage would have a cake walk.

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Benjamin King
Benjamin King

actually goes out of his way to uncover and learn things about aliens and do something about it

Honestly he'd be the best additional character SU can ask for at this rate. Though with how SU loves to delay information the other characters will still think he's Ronaldo tier crazy and Big headed so nothing would probably get done regardless. Would also get called insensitive unironically like a hugblx version of how episode one with his classmates went in IZ.

Jaxon Green
Jaxon Green

The scanning drones immediately identify Stephen. And gems can shaoeshift, so it's not too wild to think they only look at the gem.

Austin Howard
Austin Howard

Mass produced doomsday weapons that all do something seemingly random but massive in scale so nothing can really be prepared in advance as a defense.

Jack Rivera
Jack Rivera

Hard to know how would they deal with actual intelligent beings
they enslaved them and force them to build their shit

Lucas Sanchez
Lucas Sanchez

but the irkens don't have a gem so like lars they can just walk by all security

Adrian Clark
Adrian Clark

I mean, a dumb prepubescent conspiracy theorist was able to steal and reprogram an Irken ship.

Brayden Edwards
Brayden Edwards

No it scanned Lars positively as organic right up until he died.

Samuel Martin
Samuel Martin

go watch the lars episodes again
lar's they can't see you at all
we never would have been able to steal a ship without lars, he can get past all the scanners undetected

Ethan Williams
Ethan Williams

Send an Invader disguised as a human for the zoo and their SIR disguised as the gem delivering.
Set up the base in the zoo area.
Contact the Armada to make plans for more reinforcements or something like a Megadoomer to be delivered.
Conquer.

Camden Williams
Camden Williams

Both of those lines happened after he died iirc. But if I am wrong, that just puts Irkens and gems on equal ground for detecting infiltrators.

Owen Cox
Owen Cox

I'm fairly certain that all those machines could detect organics if they were set too. Gem leadership likely thought the idea of organics making it to their planet and romping around to be so absurd that nothing is set to monitor for them.

I seriously doubt that they aren't capable of it, they just are set to it at the moment.

If I'm wrong then SU plot is even more contrived and fucking retarded than I thought.