If you are not rich and you support lower taxes on the rich, you are the highest mode of a cuck there is.
You literally support raising your own taxes so millionaires and billionaires can pay even less taxes.
And yes, that is what happens. The tax burden has steadily shifted away from the rich to the middle class.
>Sup Forums will defend being a cuck
I'm rich and I support it, I thank everyone who is giving me support right now.
There is literally nothing wrong with the private accumulation of capital
You're cuck if you support any kind of taxes but whatever float your boat.
Fucking weakest OHP I've ever seen and who the fuck stands with a staggered stance. Guarantee she is gonna push-press that shit and that's even more pathetic.
Fuck weak women.
Not even like, actually fuck them.
More like, do NOT fuck them.
185 strict OHP for 10 reps bare minimum or gtfo.
she is stronger than you guaranteed.
as a Sup Forumstard, you are likely fat and out of shape.
I believe in justice. I have no desire to improve my life at the unjust expense of another.
Integrity is something you might want to try some day, Marxist.
So?
Who gives a fuck about the middle class?
One day when I make it, I will be rich as fuck and be paying 8% in taxes.
The american dream baby
Currently the top 20% of in terms of wealth pay for about 80% of our taxes (roughly, don't remember the exact numbers). Just giving perspective
>You're a cuck for not wanting to steal from people richer than you so bureaucrats can waste their money
So what happens if I do become rich? Should my opinion suddenly change? Stupid commie fucks.
welcome to the millenial mindset.
current actions shouldn't have an affect on your future well being so you should only do what you think will give you the most benefit in this very moment.
Either way, taxes are going to have to increase to get rid of the debt. Social Welfar programs could be cut or diminished, yes, but that would barely put a dent in the deficit. And cutting military spending would help as well, but it and the annual deficit are roughly the same, so even that wouldn't fix it. So no matter how you look at it, unless you want to make life worse for the severely impoverished AND you can find politicians who don't give af about their career and don't mind repealing popular programs, then taxes are going to have to be raised.
and they have more than 95 % of the wealth....
there needs to be a redistribution.
HALF OF AMERICANS live in poverty now. This isn't because suddenly half the country just got stupid and lazy.
It is because the system we have, which is unrestrained capitalism and crony capitalism, directly causes this massive wealth inequality.
They are literally lobbying our government to make the majority poorer and the rich richer.
So you would rather the government steel from poor people and the middle class to pay for roads, hospitals, education, etc?
No one truly owns millions of dollars. They just got lucky enough to benefit from a system that allows such massive inequality.
No amount of hard work in their life could allow them to accumulate millions of dollars.
The merely are one of the lucky ones who gets to mooch of the work of the poor and middle class.
What we need to do is get these outdated retarded national budget laws that say if you want to cut taxes on [tax bracket x] you have to raise taxes on [tax bracket y]
They create a game of tug-of-war between the middle class and top 0.1% kikes that the kikes will always win.
We need to cut taxes across the board and reap the fruits of expansionary policy until we need to regain control of inflation again.
I don't understand what's so hard about this and I don't even think trump is gonna think to do this desu.
You are a millenial. if you are under 35, you are a millenial.
i really hate how people here just try to put people who they disagree with in one group and people on their side in another. They then make huge blanket judgments.
You are lucky you dont encounter me in real life. youd be in for a rude awakeing
>Would you rather the government steal from others?
I would rather my government be able to stick to a budget. Besides, why do you have the right to steal anything?
>No one owns property
>They're just lucky
>No amount of hardwork allows wealth
Then why don't you do it, Commie?
Not really, there are other ways than just taxes.
You are right that taxes can be a way to leverage citizen money into relieving a debt pressure weight, but it's not the only way, and to advocate that increases will help is kind of non-evaluational as well, you're not evaluating the impact that has on business in the country and the willingness of those who run businesses to remain.
Imagine you have location A, high taxes, high wages, location B, low taxes, low wages... Where would you start your business or move your business to?
Obviously location B.
When you tax high incomes you are taxing the wrong rich people
I'm sure you came out of the womb with a 185 OHP.
Everyone has to start somewhere
relieve debt pressure on the lower classes by decreasing the spending...ta dah
Yes, it's more complicated than just simply raising taxes. Of course the issue of convincing people to let taxes be raised is a tough one, though not an impossible one I feel.
One problem with your analogy I see, however, is it doesn't take into account the costs and risks of moving to location B. For a big, rich corporation, it's obviously easy, but for small, middle class businesses, it's far more difficult, and perhaps would be severely impractical. The consequences of this could be debated heavily. Also, one possible solution to keeping the corporations that can move to stay is to use tariffs. Implementing tariffs on products/resources the corporations bring in from outsourced labor could disincentivize corporations from choosing to move to B
You're right dude. You totally convinced me with 'commie' and le parks and recreation conservative.
We shouldn't have taxes at all. like why do even need them?
I'd rather use my tax money on buying the new season of parks and rec or seeing aziz ansari live stand up.
Like we don't need taxes at all, or a government for that matter. People can be trusted to rule themselves, and the free market will fix literally everything.
Borders are just arbitrary lines in the sand drawn by governments. We should just do away with those, because the government should not use tax dollars to hire border guards or to build border fences.
right guys XD? le governmet and taxes are le evil XD
Fine. Why do the rich owe the state more than the poor?
>You literally support raising your own taxes so millionaires and billionaires can pay even less taxes.
lmgtfy.com
I'm not him, but one argument is that since they have benefited greatly from the society in which they're in, both from past residents and current residents of that society, then they have a duty to help provide for the betterment of the rest of society, both current and future. Sort of like taking out a loan, profiting off of that loan, and then paying it back with slightly extra. You end up with more money than you started off with, and the group you borrowed from also ends with more money than they started off with.
because they have benefited significantly more from the system than the poor.
And plus we have a lot of debt and a lot of bills. especially this overblown military that trump wants to increase spending on.
The money has to come from somewhere, and the poor cant finance it all.
But really, why should someone complain that they are only earning 1 million a year instead of 1.5 million?
I mean, 1 million a year is still a lot of money. Making that kind of money means money is never an issue.
When taxes are raised on the rich, it never hurts their bottom dollar. It never causes them financial worry. they never have to worry about where they will live or if they can get food or keep the lights on. They want less taxes simply because they are greedy. The want to buy a 4th home. or a 8th car. they dont need the money.
When taxes are raised on the poor and middle class, it really hurts their bottom dollar. It can be the difference between making a rent payment or eating dinner.
The state has a lot of bills and debt. Someone has to pay for that, or we have to decrease our spending. but even if we cut literally all spending, we have massive debt. Someone has to pay for that. and it only makes sense that those who can easily afford it should pay.
Tbh I literally have no problem forcibly taking money from the rich.
Allowing them to cuck you in the name of morals is no better then letting your wife get fucked by a refugee.
National Socialism is the only way.
bump, I love these threads
>But really, why should someone complain that they are only earning 1 million a year instead of 1.5 million?
Why should you complain when I stab out one of your eyes? It's not like you don't have another one.
>When taxes are raised on the rich, it never hurts their bottom dollar. It never causes them financial worry. they never have to worry about where they will live or if they can get food or keep the lights on. They want less taxes simply because they are greedy.
Fuck, you're a disgusting "human being."
Money is more than something to meet basic needs, trashbag - it's the power to accomplish things. The ability to build and create things. Businesses and buildings and technology, all built from, and making up the bulk of, the wealth of "the rich."
Who gave you the right to take away someone's property and their ability to literally change the world just so that you can feel goodsies about "helping the poor"? Especially when all that tax money only winds up in the hands of corrupt bureaucrats anyway.
You want to take away someone else's property and you have the balls to call them greedy for not wanting to be robbed? You're as dumb as you are corrupt, you know that?
>if you support lowering taxes, you support higher taxes
In what way do the rich benefit from the society they're in more than the poor? The government sells a product to its citizenry; every person gets the same product. Why would the rich pay more for it than the poor?
Infact, why would the rich pay anything if they had the option? They actually do not need the services the government provide, but are a captive market.
>Our government runs itself poorly with massive excess and has accumulated lots of debt.
>Therefore, we need the rich to pay it
I get the logic, but the morality is shit. If I were a buyer of bonds, and the business I was considering buying bonds from ran itself into massive debt I would not buy bonds from it period.
Likewise, this is also an extremely relative argument; who says what is enough? In my view, you're simply stealing from people with the claim that they don't need it anyway. Fuck you, and your morality. If you couldn't do it without the state to protect you, it is inherently immoral.
Let's not even get on the issue that the rich can afford to avoid their governments.
Trump is going to have zero taxes for people who make under 40k a year. Are you fucking retarded, buddy? Raising our own taxes and making the rich pay less taxes.
Have you ever heard of across the board tax cuts?
For the first one, that analogy doesn't apply. It would if we were talking about two dollars. Why worry if I rip one of your dollars up? It's not like you don't have another one.
With a million dollars there's more cushion to make up for money lost.
On the second one, I can see values differ so I won't cover it much, however, the U.S. isn't nearly as wasteful as you make it out to be. In fact, most of the waste comes from Congressmen passing pork barrel legislation (laws that marginally benefit their own states for the cost of a shit ton of money, ex. the bridge to nowhere in Alaska). If we can prevent that then the majority of preventable government waste can be gotten rid of and the problem mostly fixed.
>Besides, why do you have the right to steal anything
Funny that the right always blames the left for being emotional. Private ownership isn't a brute fact
>Who gave you the right to take away someone's property and their ability to literally change the world just so that you can feel goodsies about "helping the poor"?
yay democracy
>Private ownership isn't a brute fact
Neither is government. What do you mean exactly?
that is a terrible analogy.
A better won would be like
>my friend needs a pair of glasses.
Should we take them from ...
>person A: who has a million pairs
or
>Person B: who has two pairs exactly. One to wear and one spare.
> Sup Forums will depend being a cuck
Pfff, I've always been fiscally conservative because my family has money. What you don't realize is that the tax burden has always been on the middle class. The fact is that 1) the wealthy have been in control of government since the beginning so they have always had loopholes to get out of taxes and 2) the wealthy represent a small group, so even if the average middle class person pays less in taxes than the average upper class person, the bulk of tax revenue will come from the middle class.
are you fucking retarded?
What inevitably happens when you lower taxes on the rich, you have to raise them on everyone else to make up for the lost tax revenue.
one***
>the wealthy have always fucked us over, so we should just let them keep fucking us over
Dude, I will tell you right now, you are lucky we are just talking on the internet in and not in real life. Because I would utterly beat the living shit out of you for holding such a stupid fucking opinion.
You would be sent the hospital in critical condition. It would be uncertain if you would live through the pounding.
I am not joking. I trian mma. I bench 315 for reps and dead lift 600 pounds for reps. I can realize a deadly amount of force as one lethal kinetic chain.
You got very lucky friend. People like you deserve to have the living shit beat out of them.
1. A owns a factory (institutional fact)
2. Workers B and C get salary for working (brute fact)
3. Workers' labor produces Y amount of commodity X (brute fact)
4. Workers can't afford to buy their commodities back with their salary (brute fact)
Now why wouldn't B and C just inform A that his private ownership of the factory isn't valid no longer?
Thus:
1. Workers own the factory (IF)
2. Workers work in the factory (BF)
3. Workers' labor produces Y amount of commodity X (BF
4. Workers get to keep the commodities they produce (BF)
>you have to raise them on everyone else to make up for the lost tax revenue.
No, you cut down on government and make it operate within a smaller budget.
jeff plz.
and every single time throughout american history that has not happened.
Every single time, spending has gone up. look at reagan and bush.
These same people who want to cut spending and lower taxes are the same people who want to spend even more on our biggest expense, military.
For all pragmatic purposes, spending will not be cut in any meaningful way.
>and every single time throughout american history that has not happened.
>Every single time, spending has gone up. look at reagan and bush.
Yeah, that's been extremely bad, Bush was also extremely bad.
>These same people who want to cut spending and lower taxes are the same people who want to spend even more on our biggest expense, military.
Actually it's entitlements.
>For all pragmatic purposes, spending will not be cut in any meaningful way.
This is the real reason every rich special interest including the republican party was frothing at the mouth to stop trump, he represents the end of the gravy train.
The owner of the factory paid to own the factory, payed for all the equipment the workers use, and pays all the bills for the factory so why do B and C have any right to take his factory from him?
trump, for intensive purple sliz, is an establishment republican now.
>>There is literally nothing wrong with the private accumulation of capital
in principal, you're right, no there isn't. there is no level at which someone having so much money is not "fair", or is "wrong", or whatever else, even from an economic standpoint.. but there is a lot wrong with growing wealth and income inequality, and it's effect on economic growth.
lowering taxes on the wealthy has never been shown to lead to economic growth, but has always been shown to increase debts and deficits, while at the same time wealth and income inequality slows the velocity of money, reducing the rate of inflation (see QE: Infinity, 0% rates), and making it more difficult for the government to inflate away it's debt like it has always done.
>our system is unrestrained crony capitalism
>let's give more power to the state which in turn gives more power to lobbying
please kys
being envious and emotional over someones imagined value and quality of life is the epitome of cuck philosophy. its usually women and short, weak men who give any creedance to "income inequality"
but I am rich and subhuman poorscum tax me to fuck and back
eagerly awaiting robots taking what little jobs they have and then robot riot police exterminating them if they get uppity
If you support any form of taxation, you're the highest mode of KEK there is.
Also, liberals like OP have no defense for why everyone shouldn't contribute the SAME amount in taxes.
Actually, people on my side, the progressive left, have been advocating repealing citizens united and getting money out of politics for years now.
You will not hear you, trump , or any right winger advocating this at all.
You guys talk about ending corruption, but never actually discuss ending the source, money. It's because you dont actually give a shit about corruption.
Trump doesn't give a shit. He was one of the corrupters. He donated to hillary clinton many times, and other top democrats.
He doesn't give a fuck about corruption, neither do you.
Raising taxes on the rich doesn't make the government more powerful. It means they have more tax revenue. If it were the case, then places like sweden or denmark, with high taxes on the rich, would be very corrupt. But they are some of the least corrupted governments in the world.
The are also the most happy people in the world. Go figure. The people are happy when money interests are able to bend them over and fuck them as hard and as long as they want .
But you aren't interested in facts.
Just keep shilling for the rich (a group which you are not a part).
You are literally shilling for free. Literally doing what they pay politicians to do, only you do it for free. :)
>dur taxing the crony capitalist their fair share is somehow going to give the crony capitalists who opposes more power in the country
You should be aware of how stupid you sound
>I am not joking. I trian mma. I bench 315 for reps and dead lift 600 pounds for reps. I can realize a deadly amount of force as one lethal kinetic chain.
>i train mma
LMFAO
you're a little bitch that probably took two boxing classes and a white belt in bjj
stop posting on here pretending you know anything about econ when you've literally been indoctrinated to hold the same center-left mainstream opinion as every other millenial
Workers B and C are free to not take the job offer and open their own factory. Oh wait they won't take out a huge loan and risk creating a failing business but they want to reap all the rewards.
so you're an ancap. Good going. The free market will fix everything. Open borders will be just fine :). Third worlders from all over the world will flood in until eventually the standard of living in the US drops to meet that of Mexico. That is what will happen in unrestrained capitalism
Well I don't support taxes because they are unconstitutional, the tax law to steal peoples income from labors was never ratified by congress.
I also see no point in collecting taxes when we are no longer paying our debts, we just control a communist style banking system that creates socialism for corporations who in turn produce products for consumers and are safeguarded from failure.
I see no reason the federal reserve can't finance our countries military and infrastructure since taxes are a symbolic gesture at best to disguise how economics really work.
only a cuck would think like that
>Raising taxes on the rich doesn't make the government more powerful.
>Raising taxes doesn't make the government more powerful
Okay this is actually bait now
>You literally support raising your own taxes so millionaires and billionaires can pay even less taxes.
You wot m8. Who cut taxes for the rich and increased lower income rates?
>The free market will fix everything. Open borders will be just fine :).
Read the sticky before posting m8
donald trump
Cutting taxes for the wealthy works GREAT for everyone in the economy. Just look how well kansas has been doing
bloomberg.com
>If you are not rich and you support lower taxes on the rich, you are the highest mode of a cuck there is. You literally support raising your own taxes so millionaires and billionaires can pay even less taxes. And yes, that is what happens. The tax burden has steadily shifted away from the rich to the middle class.
I want the top marginal annual income tax rate to be 99% and I want it to become effective on income earned annually exceeding $400,000.00
The rich will either fund this god damn government or they will voluntarily pay those profits to the middle and working classes who made them possible.
French god damn revolution already people.
>If you are not rich and you support lower taxes on the rich, you are the highest mode of a cuck there is.
The rich need to be taxed less so they have more economic freedom to have more kids. Miserable poor people deserve to be taxed even more for their dysgenic breeding.
Rasing taxes for the wealthy works GREAT for everyone in the economy. Just look how well Detroit has been doing
>right wingers think you can 'earn' millions of dollars.
haha. You just happen to live in a very short window of history where thousands of years of knowledge about agriculture and technology have compounded to the point where a system of an abundance of resources exist.
Millionaires would have nothing if not for the work of intelligent humans over thousands of years.
That million dollars you earned should rightfully be split with the people who invented the technology and the agriculture to make it possibly for you to even be in a position to make that sort of money.
400 years ago your exact same effort would have earned you a peasants living, living off a measly amount of food in a small shack. You just happen to be born in the right place at the right time.
Take away all the work that has been done by humans in the past and by the work done currently by other humans, and the system that allows people to rich doesnt even exist.
Throw yourself in the wild and try to survive, then youll see how much you truly earned.
Sage
thicc
>everyone has a higher income than under current tax code
>waaahhh mine only increased 1% instead of 2%
Seriously, you wot
Also
>having 5 children without being able to support them
Are you a nigger
there are no wealthy people in detroit, they are all in oakland county.
And the equipment in the factory is made made by workers and bought with surplus that wasn't paid to the workers.
That's just stupid if the latter option I presented is just as possible
>>>everyone has a higher income than under current tax code
that is not what the graph shows at all though.
They all left because the high taxes and regulation was making it hard for them to do business.
this
op confirmed for an edgy neet
they left because suburbs with homes larger than 1000sq ft were built outside of wayne county, and detroit slowly lost it's tax base as people moved further and further away from the city into newer developments.
i've lived in the detroit area for 31 years.
I suppose you don't into capitalist economics much. Are you one of those dumb ass Berniebros?
>having that many children in current year
>OY VEY 3 MORE PERCENT
>I NEEDS DAT EXTRA 1000 FOR MUH BABEHHHS
I like capitalism. It is clearly superior to communism.
Competition is important.
I just advocate more regulation. Unrestrained capitalism has lead to the largest case of wealth inequality since the great depression.
see or do yourself a favor and look at what happened to our economy when bush lowered taxes twice while raising spending.
revenue did not increase. tax revenue as a percentage of gdp hit a 40 year low.
median income households with two children will see their take home pay go down under trump's plan.
is two "too many"? furthermore, what benefit do we see from raising taxes on families with multiple children?
we don't practice capitalism
>every country has same tax laws
You're acting like the graph margins go to 35% instead of 3.5
And if we're being realistic:
You can't just take out a loan with your buddies and open up a fucking factory:D It most like requires billions
nothing wrong with lower taxes and capitalism in general
banking as an """industry""" should be what makes you mad. why are they allowed to make billions out of the intangible, while a successful farmer who works his entire life paying tax and hitting all the right notes, building his business, still dies a slave to banks and supermarkets?
liberate the fucking producers, gas the kikes
...
>And the equipment in the factory is made made by workers and bought with surplus that wasn't paid to the workers.
So?
*Most likely
yeah sorry mate, i'm not seeing any convincing argument here in favor of raising taxes on middle-income families with children.
...
In case of a revolution, workers seize the means of production to themselves. So the capitalist won't own the equipment no more
There is no argument for it, nor I am trying to argue for it. But its not a yuge fucking deal.
So uneducated factory workers are going to own the means of production? Sounds great.
100lbs DB OHP mustard race checking in.
I'm sure your shitty public service job totally justifies it's pay.
The rich already contribute more than thier fair share to the public with little benifit to themselves.
Nigger the difference is I don't post my shit lifts online for attention.
>tfw 180lbs
>DL 495lbs
>SQ 405lbs
>BP 295lbs
>with little benifit to themselves
Come on now.
>T. lotto player