Gender dysphoria and Gay Conversion: Why is gender malleable but sexuality is not?

I think gay conversion therapy is a scam and retarded but what is the actual objection to it? If children can be remade into another gender, why is sexuality so permanent?

Goose & the Gander, no?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A
youtube.com/watch?v=5emm2GFNpBE
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

I think we should kill the gays.

Kristalnacht when?

kill them all and let god sort 'em out

Now, now, dear Achmed, that means it'll be harder to smuggle in your dancing boipucci

It was never about making sense, but to undermine established traditional social norms.

Destroy a nation from within, but destroy it's people's fundamental beliefs or even their capacity to make sense of the world around them.

The objection is that people are being forced against their will to change. Any freedom loving conservative should see that the concept is authoritarian.

And this is distinct from children undergoing hormonal and surgical interventions to give them a facsimile of a new "gender?"

But children being given hormone therapy and persuaded to change gender? How the FUCK is a 10 year old cognizant enough of the world to understand what implications it will have to change genders?

ESPECIALLY before hitting puberty?

Giving children hormone therapy should be fucking child abuse and the parents and the doctor prescribing it should be strung up by their god damn necks.

I suppose the left's argument would be that gender and sexuality are both something that a person is given at birth.

Speak English, you fucking faggot.

All this gender shit started at the universities. They embellish their language with all these polysyllabic terms so normies will be intimidated and passively accept whatever shit they say.

Orwell was right.

Children should not be forced to be transgender. Sometimes puberty fixes that. 13 should be the lowest with parental permission. Most trannies make the final decision 17-18, which is perfectly reasonable.

t. my tranny wife.

:)

Honestly if you make the decision at 17-18 i couldnt care less. Your choice to be a degenerate. However, if you try to impose it on younger children then no. You should be hanged

Why do you guys cherry pick random incidences, then use them to say shit like "all x are like this!!!". That is exactly what liberals do.

>b-but i read an article about it on THEBLAZE.COM where a disgusting parent forces her kid to be a tranny!!!!!

Kids suspected of having gender dysphoria are not forced or persuaded in any way at all by 99% of parents, and even on the rare occasion that they are, or they choose to try treatment, they are not given HORMONES, you absolute morons. They are given hormone blockers, which are 100% harmless, until they are old enough to consent to actual hormone replacement therapy.

Listening to virtually anyone on Sup Forums talk about gender topics is worse than listening to a 16 year old talk about ancap garbage.

The idea behind gender dysphoria is that it's -not- malleable, and that trannies like me have it because we got fucked in the head by hormone imbalances in the womb. We can't just change our brain structure through therapy, and that's why transitioning is the best option now.

I do believe there is a better option, though. And that it will never be found as long as libs pretend that being trans is totally normal and not an actual illness.

>hormone blockers
>not harmful to a developing child

>hormone blockers, which are 100% harmless
I'm a tranny. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. They are absolutely not harmless, especially to children.

soft shilling for libcucks. nice try.

makes them sterile lmaoooooo

If a child can be given the responsibility of choosing their gender they should be able to consent to sex.

See, I thought this might be good trigger fodder for lefticucks.

You're delaying puberty for a couple of years, and in studies there has been shown for there to be almost no risks, aside from some vague, inconclusive appearances of minor neurological and bone growth issues.

>b-b-b-but there is a chance it will mess them up!!!!
Oh, so you mean like 99% of all medications and procedures to ever exist in medicine? Wow who would have guessed!!

I voted and shilled for Trump in Pennsylvania. Neck yourself.

> a fucking leaf

Hormone blockers cause sterility, and depending on the type can also cause heart and kidney problems. Go fuck yourself, scumbag.

>a fucking leaf
>says the fucking leaf

If they were going to be trans they couldnt have kids anyway.
They deserve sterility for their stupidity.

They're kids, they don't know what the fuck they're doing and they don't deserve to end up sterile because their parents are virtue signalling faggots.

BwahahahahahHah

Yup, nature surely has no problem with retarding biology through invasive pharmacology. Assurances of the benign nature of your wonder treatments fall on the same ears that were told ADHD and SSRIs are harmless, more or less.

As a shill, is it a daily exercise to defend shitty ideas? Is it like intellectual resistance training?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

If you block hormones you turn male children into female children

You seem to have a very poor understanding of modern medicine. It all comes down to risks versus rewards. Every single medication or procedure you can possibly has "risky" side effects or harmful effects. When I say risky, I mean like 1 in 10,000 at the very worst for 99% of medications of procedures.

>AIS
Wow it affects not even a handful of people out of every 100,000!!!

>SSRI side effects
Wow this neurological drug /rarely/ produces vaguely neurological symptoms!! No more anti-depressants!!!

This is without considering the possible good that these medications can do for people. You also have to add to the fact that not every minor with gender dysphoria is persuaded by their parents like The Blaze or Mike Pence's blog will tell you. In a lot of cases, doctors will send the child to a psychologist solo if they suspect any signs of coercion, because you know, that's also part of their job.

As a retard, is it a daily exercise to get on Sup Forums and talk about things you don't even have a basic understanding of and then call people shills for calling you out? Is it like intellectual dulling training?

giving hormone blockers to male children is a really bad idea. unless you want to create millions of freaks with malformed genitalia

>risks versus rewards
And there is no reward for giving a child any sort of hormone treatments. If they do truly realize they're transgender when they're old enough to actually understand that shit, then there's plenty of time to transition. Hormone blockers are not something vital to someone's survival. It is not okay to put a child at risk so you can seem progressive. It's not okay to make a child sterile because you're a fucking idiot.

>not every minor with gender dysphoria is persuaded by their parents
No, instead they're persuaded by their friends, and tumblr, and twitter, pushing this as something completely normal, acceptable, and trendy. Telling them it's not an illness, and it's cool to be trans. You see this shit everywhere.

End your fucking life, you rotten piece of shit.

Hah, that's what they said about Accutane. Perfectly safe.

*years later*

OH WAIT

>be me
>want to be a girl since age 5
>repress it
>"puberty will fix me and I'll become a cool dude"
>go to gym to try and bury these feelings
>still persist
>have never been able to keep my dick hard with women, actually felt disgust after my first kiss
>only got dates because I followed a script to get girls and used my body to mask my submissive personality
>20 now
>dead inside when I see young kids getting to come out and ask to be girls
>waiting for the pendulum to swing back so my discipline is validated

Please tell me I did the right thing or did I throw away my only chance at happiness in life because I was afraid of being myself

>Medications are 99% safe
>Side effects are trivial
>Children can calculate risks that are not yet understood by the medical establishment

You're so scientific and literate, user. ;^}

If you're 20, just transition now. You're still early enough unless you're some sasquatch looking guy. I started when I was 21 and I'm perfectly passable.

I repressed too well.

so you want to become a sissy boy and go out to suck cocks

that's so cute

I've seen some transitioned of super jacked bear mode guys turning into total qts. The only thing that can fuck you is having a Crimson Chin jawline or something similar.

user, is there an appeal of you embracing a new gender, i.e. both girl and guy? I don't know how you feel, but I fear you're vulnerable to being taken advantage of by the shadier parts of medicine and I wish there was some cultural way for you to be you, however you deem that to be the case.

Do you not feel it's a bit dishonest of people to promote transition? Is there no other way to cope with how you feel?

definitely child abuse. Infancy doctrine prevents children from consenting to medical procedures like that which could effect their own lives so terribly. Suicide rates for trannies even post op is astronomical. Tranniesm was a mistake. It should be treated as a mental illness, not celebrated.

>Is there no other way to cope with how you feel?
There isn't, but only because other possibilities are being suppressed by the left. Right now, transitioning is really the only thing that can put aside the mental anguish that comes with the illness, and even then it doesn't totally go away. There needs to be people looking into other treatments and cures, but it can't happen as long as that's being labelled as hateful.

Yes, become a shemale.

They don't want to treat it. They want to create more of them.

Hormone blockers for children is genocide.

pic related is what the white mans future looks like

Have you guys ever actually been to a doctor before? Parents can't just walk into a clinic and say "My kid is transgender, please give them blockers." It doesn't work like that. Like I said, many doctors will make the parents take the kid to a referred psychiatrist or psychologist for weeks of sessions before getting any kind of treatment.

>And there is no reward for giving a child any sort of hormone treatments.
Are you pretending to be retarded or something? Blocking puberty essentially means if they reach the age of 16 or 17 and realize they are in fact transgender, their bones, voices, etc, are all still in a malleable state which will help them immensely in transition. The end goal of transitioning is to live as a woman. Part of living as a woman is looking like one, you know this right? I guarantee you that if you ask any transgender person if they wish they transitioned earlier, and they will say yes.

What happens if they get to 16 or 17 and realize they aren't transgender? They just start puberty at a later age.

Honestly just transition. My friend transitioned at 22 and passes well now, and is fairly attractive too. Unless you will need like major jaw restructuring, you might find out that plastic surgery has come a long way.

>le post op suicide meme

You realize in this ONE study people always reference, post-op trans people were compared to national rates of everyone right? When compared to pre-op trans people and examining their mental state after, their suicide rates/tendencies dramatically went down. Wow who would have guessed a group of people that constantly are being shit on are more suicidal than everyone else!!

Fookin heretics amirite?

> but only because other possibilities are being suppressed by the left.

What other options would these be, or are you referring to options that might be found if more research were put into the issue if liberals weren't destroying the lives of anyone that says it is an issue?

You don't get it do you.

Giving them hormone blockers is what makes them transgender.

Because you cant change either

>options that might be found
This is what I mean. I want someone to find a real treatment so others don't have to deal with the shit I've felt.

there are 2 options.

Dress like a girl and start sucking cocks.

.45 to the head to cure your mental illness

>Blocking puberty essentially means if they reach the age of 16 or 17 and realize they are in fact transgender, their bones, voices, etc, are all still in a malleable state which will help them immensely in transition
>My friend transitioned at 22 and passes well now, and is fairly attractive too
Wow, you sold me, user. Those treatments are absolutely vital.
>mfw i also transitioned at 21 and am also perfectly passable

>The end goal of transitioning is to live as a woman.
>The end goal of transitioning is to live as a monster.

ftfy

I don't want to think about what might have been or could be

It's been with my all my childhood. A nagging feeling at the back of my head. Jealousy of girls in school. A secret desire to dress up as one when I was a child. A submissive feminine mindset when it comes to love which I've had to suppress.

Every part of my masculinity feels like an act. I have to actively hide my personality to appear socially acceptable. I feel regret for not trying to speak up about this when I was a child

>Strawmanning when your ideas are morally bankrupt and medically dubious

>Delaying puberty is nbd, it's just like parbaking a pizza!

You must be a liberal arts student.

You don't have to hold it back, user. 20 is not too old. But you do only have 4-5 years before the treatments aren't going to do jack shit for you, so get started soon if you're going to.

I have to have a think about my life

>government starts putting massive amounts of hormones and hormone blockers in the water supply and the plastics in childrens toys in the 1980s
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A
>ten years later suddenly tranny boys everywhere
>it's gotten worse since then, reaching epidemic levels

>to cure it we have to give them more
>we have to give them hormone blockers directly and in high doses

>hormone blockers change a neurological disorder created in the womb

Wow this really activated my almonds. Very insightful post. Please, tell me more about your vast studies of widely regarded harmless medicines and their effects on pre-natal neurological conditions!!!

The problem is that our understanding of psychology, and to a lesser extent neurology is at a caveman level compared to everything else we know about the human body.

When you are testing new drugs, running studies, or whatever and its related to psychology, you're always playing a game of telephone with what's actually going on in a person's brain/psyche and how well the person is able to express it.

Until we learn how to translate psychology into something more concrete and less abstract, I can't see it getting any better for a long, long time.

I am actually a medical student with degrees in psychology and biology. Care to share with me your credentials?

What exactly did I strawman? You seemed to imply that doctors will just hand out hormone blockers like candy, and that hormone blockers have no positive effect for people with gender dysphoria, which are outstandingly false. I explained why both of those statements were false. If doctors were giving away hormone blockers to any 5 year old that walked into their office, I would agree, but it doesn't work like that.

>Delaying puberty is nbd
You can read if you would like to tell me why you think otherwise.

youtube.com/watch?v=5emm2GFNpBE

They infected me...

mutilated is the correct word

even a few micrograms of xenoestrogens during fetal development can permanently destroy your gender

He's right you know.

You can brainwash people into absolutely anything.
Doesn't mean they actually changed, only that they are mentally suppressing their actual urges.

yup, now quit acting like a bitch and throw you """""feelings"""" away,unless you wanna be literal freak show and eventually commit suicide when you reflect upon it

First of all, let's talk about how these people's mental illness came to existence. You need to identify the symptom to find the cure.

When you look at Gays and Lesbians, their personality and behaviour is similar to the opposite of their sex (for the most part). Most gays are effeminate and are attracted to masculinity, most Lesbians are butch and so they are attracted to femininity.

So here's where it gets interesting;
if a Lesbian is interested in other women (lesbians) Why would she act like a man? Wouldn't she have to be feminine in other to attractive women who like femininity? And the same thing goes with gay guys. Think about it. This is more than attraction. Their minds and bodies are confused.

Transgenderism is just an extreme form of homosexuality. Both people have confused minds. The solution is to teach men to be men and women to be women. I've never met a homosexual that came from a proper family.

>scam

That's right.

Professional shrinks, surgeons, and sellers of pharmaceutical drugs are implanting fucked up ideas in kids who are too young to even know what sexual intercourse is let alone give a fuck about 'chosing' what gender they want to be and their gullible/retarded parents - you guessed it - for the money.

The entire purpose of life is to reproduce. That's the way its been for a billion fucking years and thats literally all they need to know.

The people pushing this madness are unbelievably sick and need to be removed like the cancer they are.

>muh pharma jew is taking over the world!!!!

hahahahahahaha

>I've never met a homosexual that came from a proper family.
I'm a tranny and my parents divorced when I was very young, but I lived with my father. Shouldn't his masculinity have rubbed off on me? He's certainly no libcuck.

>Medical student

So you're in your 20s. Sorry, but 20 something's are retards and your faith in "harmless" drugs testifies to this fact. If you do well, you'll shed most of your retardation as you become an adult.

>Credentials

COO for a regional medical group with 15 years experience. My peers are physicians and surgeons with centuries of personal experience from all over the world.

>W-what Strawman?

The part where you contrived the "giving out hormonal drugs like candy" - the bureaucracy of medicine rarely stands in the way of its profits. For you to speak of the massive domain of medicine and think prescription of these drugs would fit a pattern different from the opportunism that plagued dispensing amphetamines, opiates and SSRIs is naive. Incredibly so.

in order to attract*

It seems you are somewhat familiar with the intricacies of diagnosing a future tranny, so could you briefly describe what goes on during those
>weeks of sessions
with psychologist or psychiatrist?

Children need both parents in their lives so that they can properly develop.

Full on brainwashing. That's what. Shrinks are paid to pretend they give a fuck about you - i.e. they're your friend.

Literally they're whores only 10x more psychotic - because they think they know whats good for you.

Of course, I agree with that, but I should think that if it was as simple as you describe then growing up in a household with 3 other men would have resulted in me being a normal guy.

It's not simple. Parents need to put effort to raise them properly. It's not easy to teach a boy to be a man, it's hard but will be worth it for his sake. There are many lazy and selfish parents out there.

Theres certainly lots of $$$ to be made from vulnerable parents and their children. Successful medical enterprises function a bit like an ecology, where patients are sent to various services, hopefully housed under your own roof. So Acme PCP sends the dysphoric patient to Acme psychiatrist who delegates to Acme counselors and such.

To the medical machine, that dysphoric patient is a gold mine of charges and compliant coding. You want to spread that around your business.

I know this doesn't go into the "clinical" details but I think in some cases the business of medicine drives operations, with medical knowledge being part of how you sell the scam to parents, pastors, insurers etc.

>Pastors

Should be payors

You most likely developed your confusion because you didn't really have a strong presence of a mother (I'm guessing), so the feminine energy grew within you, to compensate for the feminine energy that you didn't really have.

So you're telling me the hundreds of psychology/neurology studies I have read saying both major observable and reported side effects occur in rates of 1 to 1000 (at the very worst) , published by different people, using different drugs, made by different manufacturers, are all part of a pharma Jew scheme?

Like I mentioned before, its a game of telephone between the person's brain/psyche and the person's ability to express what is going on there. Once the psychologist gets this information from the telephone, they have to process the information along with everything given along with it (expressions, answers to questions, etc).

I don't personally know what questions you need to ask, or what topics you need to broach to get a good understanding of if someone truly experiences gender dysphoria or not. I'm not educated on that. I would imagine they ask you what you're feeling, how long you've felt it, what triggers those feelings, etc.

Again, like I have said before, psychology is a tricky subject. You can't give someone a blood test to diagnose them for bipolar disorder; you have to get what you can from the person themselves, which of course, is always going to be limited and biased because its a subjective thing coming from a person. These same limitations apply to diagnosing gender dysphoria.

Considering how cheap hormones are, is it really that popular in terms of "exploiting" transgender patients? They are already a tiny group, using very cheap medicines, and a very large portion of them don't choose to have the invasive surgeries, which I imagine are were the money is to be made.

I would bet everything I have on women in menopause or men with naturally low testosterone generating more money than transgender people.

That's very possible. I've always wanted to give my dad back what my mom stole from him in the divorce. I don't want to fuck him or anything, but I've always wanted to be the one to cook and clean and support him at home. He deserves better than what my mom left him with.

>Considering how cheap hormones are, is it really that popular in terms of "exploiting" transgender patients? They are already a tiny group, using very cheap medicines, and a very large portion of them don't choose to have the invasive surgeries, which I imagine are were the money is to be made.

Do you even listen to yourself?

Like that's not all part of the same disgusting racquet.

>Sure drug dealers dont always get their patients from pot to heroine, but when they do ch ching ch ching.

Kill yourself you vile creature.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad. You deserve better too. Just know that recognition of a problem is the first step, it's never too late to tap in to what God truly made you as. I will pray for you.

i'm quite sick of this bullshit sexual preference=gender bullshit.

if you're a dude and wanna wear dresses and have fucking tea parties and occasionally fuck a girl between chugging down gallons of baby batter from your nearest negro meat spout... cool. sack the fuck up and be proud of it. Be a based motherfucker who doesn't give a shit.

But don't try to tell me just because you threw on a fucking wig you grew an extra x chromosome.

We don't make money on the pills, user. It's all the services with providers.

Peer review is far from perfect, but it's the best we have. People scheme (ADHD drugs) and people make mistakes (opiates). And then there's physicians who sell out (sugar).

Oh well it's a shame you don't know. I wanted to follow it up with the question about whether it really makes sense to treat gender dysphoria with sex reassignment as opposed to teaching or doping the patients into loving the actual sex they've been dealt.

>muh 99%
>muh you don't know shit about studies but I do
>muh raging anal inflammation

this guy.

>helping women in menopause and men with low testosterone is part of some "racquet"

Do you even listen to yourself? The world isn't some big pharma Jew scheme to take over everyone's minds. I know its hard to believe...

I'm aware of that. But considering how small of a minority even potentially transgender people are, it seems like a waste of your mastermind pharma Jew brainwashing resources, which like all things is finite; especially when there are cancer patients or people constipated from opiates or people wanting frivolous plastic surgery around.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of sex reassignment surgery. Its just not very advanced at this point. But as I have said with most things, its harmless and basically a cosmetic change at this point, so if it makes them more comfortable with their bodies then I'm okay with that. If we ever develop the technology to transplant a womb or something crazy like that, then I would be in favor of it, but as it stands right now, no I don't like it that much.

A surprisingly large number of transgender people don't even end up getting SRS, despite living happily after HRT.

>doping patients into loving their actual sex
Absolutely will never support this if you're intending it to mean what I think you are. You're not solving the problem at that point anymore than a lobotomy would.

That said, I don't know if its possible, even with medication, to make a person with a neurological disorder stop displaying symptoms completely. Especially in the case of gender dysphoria where almost anything can make you feel it. We give bipolar patients a mood stabilizer and maybe an SNRI to just dull the symptoms. We don't even try to cure it because we know its not possible yet. Same thing applies with gender dysphoria. Transitioning seems to be working well given our current understanding of the condition and science as a whole.

(cont.)

>literal cuck

While I don't really mind more research being put into finding out a way that isn't transitioning to make gender dysphoria dissipate, I do think it does sort of create a dangerous environment for a group of people that already are overwhelmingly misunderstood and often shamed or shit by a lot of society.

Society doesn't classify people with bipolar disorder as biological failures, freaks, etc, but it does with transgender people a lot of the time, even though they are similar things. First and foremost, I think we need to educate people on what gender dysphoria actually is, which needs effort from both ideological sides. Yes it is a mental disorder, but no its not any worse than bipolar disorder or SAD or whatever and you should still treat these people with respect like you would everyone else. Only once people are educated can we have an environment where I think it wouldn't be harmful to transgender people for research to go into the non-transition treatment route. I say this because even if a study fails overwhelmingly, if it ever were to get out that it was even being studied, Cletus and the gang down in Abilene would start telling trans people they are freaks for transitioning and they need to "just get it cured instead lol"

>I voted and shilled for Trump in Pennsylvania
And my Dad works at Nintendo

I could post a time stamp with my MAGA hat if you want :)

Reminder that Trump represents ALL Americans and respects the LGBT community.

How heritable is gender dysphoria? Do trannies even reproduce? Do you lose your fertility after HRT?

>Society doesn't classify people with bipolar disorder as biological failures, freaks, etc

I don't know what you're talking about. Mental illness has a heavy stigma.

>society doesn't classify people with bipolar as biological failures
It totally does.

Sexual preference is entirely malleable because it's all in the mind. The body is blind, completely heterosexual. The penis reacts to all physical stimuli, from hands to fruits to anuses to animal vaginas to warm pot noodles as if they were all human vaginas and reacts by ejaculating and sending reward signals to the brain accordingly. Essentially people just hijack their immutable heterosexual sexual hardware and override it with their own gay variant software really.

That said, even though it's technically malleable it's not easy to change once you've associated certain activities or thoughts with pleasure. Feedback loops, deep habits kick in. But it's possible. Best thing to do though is avoid getting caught in the trap in the first place, which is why we need to keep errant sexual practices private and stop celebrating them in public. This only leads to encouraging more people to "experiment" (ie fall into the trap of tricking their bodies with their minds). Hence the rise and fall of incidence of homosexuality with different cultures.

Homosexuality is basically a form of schizophrenia - a break between physical and mental reality. It's avoidable and curable, but it's tricky, and some people will be more prone to it than others.

There's your homo red pill for the day.

This

>they are not given HORMONES, you absolute morons. They are given hormone blockers, which are 100% harmless

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHH

"no", kids reproductive systems are completely fucked.

No study I have ever read has suggested that its hereditary or anything like that. So I guess not really?

I know a lot of transpeople freeze their sperm, so I guess some of them?

Yes after a certain amount of time (different for everyone) you stop producing sperm.

When I say it doesn't classify them as a biological failure I meant it in this sense:
>person knows someone is bipolar
>that is a person with bipolar disorder

>person knows someone is transgender
>that person is a degenerate homosexual who made a choice to be like this and they should be killed at worst
>thats a transgender person whose entire identity to me is their disorder

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

I mean I guess it could be different based on where we live, but I personally am bipolar (type 2, nothing wild), which is why I know so much about it and use it for reference, and I have no problems with anyone knowing that about me. I once even told a part time job I was bipolar and getting treatment for it and they were supportive and said it was great I was getting help. I would not feel worried for anyone to know that about me.

I don't think you can earnestly say that reaction is similar on a societal level to the reaction of transgenderism. That vocal minority on Tumblr isn't really representative of the way transgender people are treated in real life. At best they are just ignored or not noticed or cared about, at worst they are humiliated in public, harassed, among other things. I would not want to be in the closet and try to tell someone I was transgender.

Again, I think this reaction definitely comes out of a place of ignorance rather than a place of malice. I think if people understood trans people were dealing with a brain disorder and they aren't just choosing to be degenerate homos, the reactions wouldn't be the same. Leftists pushing transgenderism as being normal is definitely part of the problem, but these people should still be respected.

Say how common are false positives in diagnosing a tranny? Is it even possible to mistake something else for gender dysphoria? Also are there cases where people are dysphoric no matter what gender they are?

And about this
>people were dealing with a brain disorder
>they aren't just choosing to be degenerate homos
I think it's a very dangerous path. Once you set off on it it follows that criminals aren't choosing to be criminals, NEETs aren't choosing to be NEETs, leftists aren't choosing to be leftists, you aren't choosing to write this post etc etc. Irregardless of whether it is so or not, humans must never be denied the right or illusion of free will lest there be civilization-wrecking consequences. I mean it not from a medical point of view, but purely politically.