Is this correct?

Is this correct?

Not really. A basic definition would be authoritarianism with a mixed market.

Meh, kinda.

We just need people to understand that a "Nationalistic Right-Wing state" isn't all that bad.

It would help if you faggots stopped worshiping losers like Hitler and looked to successful fascists like Franco and Salazar.

Definitions are flexible
The merit of a definition is how closely it reflects the scenario it's describing

By this metric, that definition is pretty shit about characterizing what aspects separate Conservative ideologies from Fascist ideologies
You can use that definition if you'd like, but keep in mind that it pretty inaccurately describes fascism

Fuck Google and their dictionary.

lol i cant believe the dictionary give such a meme tier definition

Fascism isnt inheritantly left or rightwing. It's authoritarian.

This.

All Google's definition is going to do is make people say "well shit, if Nationalistic right-wing ideology is Fascism, then I guess I love Fascism!"

Fascism is pretty loose. It can be a lot of things theoretically.

Hell, a Fascist republic could be made and it would look like the Roman Republic with a mixed market.

I agree. I had to make sure that i wasn't the only one that saw a flaw in this.

Congrats on making the most retarded post of the day

You had me, but now you don't had me.

imo, fascism is as much a meme word as 'alt-right' is. Its just the name given to group all the right-wing authoritarian governments that arose in the early 20th century. Beyond that its not a very good descriptor for anything because its just an umbrella term. Plus its a meme word used by the left to basically be a stand-in for the word 'bigot' since they use it to describe people who have nothing to do with authoritarianism

it wasnt always true but I agree nowadays this word basically means 'something right wing the left dislike'

It is if you are American and believe in freedom.

...

Being right wing technically means believing that the economy should be less regulated and less controlled by the government.
So if you believe in freedom, you should want a right-wing nationalist government you dip

I really doubt you know what anything means. You can live in a free society that is nationalistic and right-wing. It just won't be Authoritarian.

>>>plebbit

Fascism is right wing you fucking cuck

hmm thanks for posting this tbf

>nationalist
Lol no. Go fuck yourself. This in political philosophy definition usually translates to some bullshit cultural standards. That doesn't sound like freedom to me.

>is x and y degenerate
Yes it is. God bless America.

>nationalist
>not authoritarian
Pray tell how you enforce nationalism without authoritarianism. Go on.

I think you're going to need to relate your specific definition of the word "nationalism" because I don't think it means what you think it means. Inherently its just the belief that a group of people with similar ways of life/ethnic background have the right to rule themselves. i.e. nationalism shook up the Austrian Empire because the Hungarians and the Serbians and basically every ethnic group wanted their own country. This also happened to the Ottomans and Yugoslavia and basically everywhere on the planet?

Like seriously why do you begin to think nationalism has anything to do with authoritarianism, its just love for your own race/culture

>>is x and y degenerate
>Yes it is. God bless America.
What the fuck are you talking about

This has been changed this week, the religious aspect was pulled out of it. Do not have caps, didn't think it was important at the moment.

It depends how you are using it. If you are using it like it was used in the early 20th century then yes - it was a right wing nationalistic government in Italy.

But, it's evolved to mean basically anything authoritarian in modern times.

I wish people would stop using it completely.

Again explain to me how you take what you are describing as cultural and make it into a political ideology without authoritatively enforcing cultural mores, in which case you don't have cultural freedom.

>what the fuck are you talking about
Every self describe nationalist on Sup Forums and the real world ever. You can try to be obtuse about it but the ideology is is filled with people that bitch about muh degeneracy. You can't purge degeneracy without being culturally authoritarian. You pic btw is textbook example of that. Hitler's Germany (the Sup Forums greatest hits of nationalism) is all about cultural authoritarianism. It also wasn't the right wing paradise you were previously trying to propagandize either.

Nationalism means sovereignty and priority.. It has nothing inherently to do with authority.

Then people would use a different word. Like authoritarian. The concepts behind why they were using it, and what they mean to invoke, would not change.

>Nationalism means sovereignty
Unless individualism becomes a degenerate obstacle for the nation amirite?

>Then people would use a different word
Yes that's my fucking point.

What do you seek to accomplish by having people use a different word than your preferred noun?

They aren't entirely mutually exclusive.
Do you just type words and hope no one knows you're retarded or what?

Because using fascism to describe anything authoritarian is an inaccurate use of the word.

Please trip so I can filter you.

I might ask you the same question because you don't even bother to explain how they "aren't entirely mutually exclusive".

Unlike your post, I actually put some meat behind mine. You just typed empty statements.

>please trip
Lurk more retard. We have IDs on Sup Forums. Hopefully in your fascistic wet dream, they remove low iq morons like yourself.

You've really drunken the koolaid in school, nationalism != nazis no matter how much you want the word to mean that.

>You can't purge degeneracy
Nationalism isn't about purging degeneracy.

Nationalism doesn't require you murder all the ethnic minorities in your country. You're just confusing the word chauvinism with nationalism.

> but the ideology is is filled with people that bitch about muh degeneracy.
Yeah, but that still doesn't mean nationalism entails anything to do with punishment of 'degeneracy'. Correlation only.

>You can't purge degeneracy without being culturally authoritarian.
"culturally authoritarian" is repetitive, being authoritarian IS the term you use when a government forces people to follow a set of social/cultural rules.
I think you need to understand nationalism usually manifests as a grass-roots movement more than anything else.

You fucking retard, you're completely strawmanning and worse, you even believe your own strawmans. You just refuse to be mature and accept the real definition because the real definition doesn't suit your agenda. Kill yourself

If you need a definition of facism, you need only to look at any Islamic country in the middle east

He didn't bother to explain because its obvious to anyone who isn't drowning in kool-aid that those aren't mutually exclusive.

>I actually put some meat behind mine
I think your meat is rotten and is entirely built on a delusional misunderstanding of basic concepts, and is built entirely around your need to demonize nationalists, but whatever you say pal.

You're confusing the word degeneracy with minorities.

Or you're confusing nationalism with racism.

>Yeah, but that still doesn't mean nationalism entails anything to do with punishment of 'degeneracy'. Correlation only.
Top kek. The only people I've ever seen advocate for nationalism on or offline have been people preoccupied with being the exact opposite version of SJWs.

>You refuse to accept the real definition
The real definition means jack shit if it doesn't translate into the real world manifestation. The real world manifestation throughout history has always been authoritarian. Everyone on Sup Forums that advocates it leans authoritarian, or loves Hitler, or eventually will.

Either way. Let's just get to the bottom line. You can't enforce a cultural thing like (((nationalism))) without using authoritarian measures. In which case, you don't have individuality and freedom. What ever in the fuck you cucks are proposing in your nationalist ideal is either imagination land or authoritarian. If you are using the term to describe a political structure, it necessarily means authoritarian enforcement of the other axis of the political spectrum (not the left and right part). Politics involves a little bit more than cultural appeal otherwise it wouldn't be politics. Politics moves things to institutions.

>arguments

>Or you're confusing nationalism with racism.
Er, no, that's you pal.

> The only people I've ever seen advocate for nationalism on or offline have been people preoccupied with being the exact opposite version of SJWs.
>muh stormtards, everyone who disagrees with me is a stormturd

>The real definition means jack shit if it doesn't translate into the real world manifestation.
>The real world manifestation throughout history has always been authoritarian
You FUCKING dumbass, look up the Austrian empire and the shit that made it become the Austro-Hungarian empire. The assassination of archduke Ferdinand. Look up why the Ottoman empire began to decline. Look up why Poland became a country, hint: its because its people were nationalistic and desired a country of their own so they could rule themselves. If nationalism wasn't a thing there would be literally no reason to re-make Poland into a country. Literally none of these movements were authoritarian, they were all grassroots movements.

Its abundantly clear that you are completely ignorant of even the most significant manifestations of nationalistic movements throughout history, and instead base your entire worldview around Nazi Germany.

>Everyone on Sup Forums that advocates it leans authoritarian,
Completely untrue. Many right-wingers are extreme advocates for personal liberties, i.e. free speech, honestly is this bait? many are pro-authoritarian but just as many are pro-liberty
I don't really expect you to shift from your delusions but I might as well say it anyways. The only person who needs nationalism to be authoritarian here is YOU, so apparently, to you, every non-authoritarian poster here is completely anti-nationalistic? Goddamn, get a grip, pro-nationalism is basically the most Sup Forums thing, people disagree on everything else.

>implying you had an argument in the post I was replying to

and, by the way, I'll point out how the nationalist movements in the Ottoman and Austrian empires fought AGAINST the authoritarian governments in power.

> You can't enforce a cultural thing like (((nationalism))) without using authoritarian measures.
You really need to drop this idea. The initial nationalist movements in history completely debunk this retarded theory because they all formed despite the absence of any centralized power structures to coordinate the nationalists.

No. Fascism is an economically and socially collectivist regime. Textbook left-wing.

Few people really get it. It comes from the idea of binding sticks together with leather in order to create strength. Romans used this concept to make axe handles. Politically, the sticks represent the people, and the leather is a unifying idea that binds everyone together.

The main point, is that it is INDEPENDENT OF IDEOLOGY.

Band, union, league are suitable synonyms.

Another way of stating it is: E.Pluribus Unum

...

Roman Fasces

Any political ideology can be the "leather" that binds. It's actually an awesome idea that is invisible to 99% of people because the association with axis powers in WW2.

You can't enforce nationalism without authority. Nationalism is a cultural CHOICE. This is a political board so unless you are advocating a political structure that enforces nationalism, you can take your social studies elsewhere. If you aren't enforcing nationalism as a political structure then what are you advocating. We can have nationalism in America. You have a choice to pick whatever cultural ideology you want as long as you aren't interfering on others rights. If you recognize this, then I don't see what nationalist are bitching about...unless they secretly want an authoritarian enforcer but can't be honest about that because of political expediency.

What you can see in that (((Google))) definition: everything bad is fascism. 75% of those synonyms can be easily applied to communism but they dont appear under their definition.

Fuck the leftist kikes.

>reich wing
>communism

>tfw to smart for nationalism.

Fascism is essentially rascist-communism anyway.

>You can't enforce nationalism without authority.
>You can't enforce nationalism without authority.
>You can't enforce nationalism without authority.
You keep saying it, do you think if you keep saying it, it'll make it true? If anything, nationalism tends to disrupt power structures rather than be 'enforced' by centralized power structures. You'd realize this if you actually bothered to even look up the wikipedia pages for nationalism in the Ottoman and Austrian empires. Stop fucking posting about something you clearly don't have an informed opinion about

>You can't enforce nationalism without authority
>enforce
I just don't understand why you keep saying ENFORCE, you don't "enforce" nationalism, people organically believe in it, there would be literally no purpose for nationalism if people didn't naturally see the world in a nationalist way. Do you honestly believe the ethno-culture states in europe are only held together because their governments ""force"" the people to live along ethno-culture lines? Fuck me, the borders in europe evolved along ethno-culture lines because that's how they naturally evolved. Every SINGLE time, that's how a post-nationalist country in europe was decided: ethno-culture lines. And its not because some people came along and forced ethno-culture lines, its sort of because states in Europe with multiple ethnicities tend to devolve into in-fighting, and, get this, eventually split on ethno-culture lines. Jesus christ how do you NOT see this.

>We can have nationalism in America
Yeah, thanks you're allowing us to have nationalism in America, you DO realize nationalism in America is just patriotism? How many red-blooded american patriots have you met that have advocated for basically another nazi-state? Oh right, probably none, because american patriots are nationalist and pro-liberty. Kill yourself.

to be fair, the idea that everyone needs to come together to contribute to the whole, and that people are stronger when they stand together is an idea that's basically accepted by everyone

Let's see.

>State-controlled economy
Check.

>Suppression of dissent
Check.

>Deconstruction of property rights
Check.

Yup. Looks like communism to me.

>estonian
>smart
what a surprise

The term fascism was completely diluted by the commies when they kept using it for Nazi Germany because they didn't like that the Nazis claimed to be National _Socialists_.

It has hardly any meaning anymore, basically just "strong government I don't like".

No

So what do you call an authoritarian anti-nationalist left-wing ?

I always thought it was the application of violence or authoritative force for political purposes.

It shouldn't be inherently right wing.

Regressive leftist

Exactly. Coming up with a common purpose everyone can unite behind, and the resulting strength is all it means. The USA didn't have political parties when it was created. It was a fascist idea. E. Pluribus Unum.

It shouldn't be a dirty word anymore. People need to realize it's a more abstract concept that serves as a framework for an ideology.

Totalitarianism is not a defining aspect of gomunism.
Star Trek is gomunist too, but it's not totalitarian at all.
But yeah, stalinism IS fascism.

>You keep saying it, do you think if you keep saying it, it'll make it true?
I could make the same bullshit response to literally anything you faggots post.

>Ottoman and Austrian empires
This is cherrypicked. You can point to many more numerous empires that were the exact opposite.

>stop expressing things that are counter to the propaganda I want to dominate the conversation
>>>/safespace/

>Do you honestly believe the ethno-culture states in europe are only held together because their governments ""force"" the people to live along ethno-culture lines?
What ethno culture states? Most of them are multicultural, metropolitan, and liberal.

>Fuck me, the borders in europe evolved along ethno-culture lines because that's how they naturally evolved
That's disregarding a lot of monarchy that was involved. Ever since FREEDOM came, these nations have moved toward blurred borders and blending cultures. Post WW2 Europe is liberal and multicultural. Nationalism dies as is evidence by liberal societies. It organically evolves into multiculturalism without something to enforce it. YES ENFORCE. Because without an enforcer, this isn't politics. And you don't have a political ideology.

> DO realize nationalism in America is just patriotism?
Wrong. You can be patriotic and embrace multiculturalism and immigration (legal and otherwise). It's pretty fundamental to the American identity to have some sort of relationship with immigration. It's what America is built out of. You couldn't have picked a more wrong example.

>How many red-blooded american patriots have you met that have advocated for basically another nazi-state
More than you'd like to admit. Though they are a minority thank god. I keep you fucked on Sup Forums where you can advocate for your evolution toward it in theory only.

All your other ancillary arguments to the side, you don't even have a political philosophy here and your Otaku moe shit reaction images doesn't change that.

>right wing
That's the exact opposite of communism.

But yes the historic examples of communism share cultural authoritarianism with fascism.

Both communism and fascism are left-wing ideologies.

No, fascism usually goes along with left wing polices. It's really funny they're saying right wing. Right wing is free market, and fascism is taking control over the market which would be far left. Liberals today are the fascists, hate speech laws, blocking ((false)) news, fear mongering propaganda, is actual fascism.

Fascism by definition is a right wing ideology.

If North Korea and South Korea could ever fuse and meet some middle ground, they would be fascist.

Define right wing then. As I understand it the right-left dichotomy is one of individualism vs. collectivism respectively. In which case fascism, which is identical to communism in practice, is inherently left-wing.

No it's authoritarian. The spectrum for left and right has to do with government interference in markets and peoples lives. Fascism is a left wing ideology because the state controls the market.

peoples financial lives*
welfare*
healthcare*
etc

Enforce nationalism because we see from example that corporations/private sector will at some point betray the nation and prefer profit over loyalty to the race/nation.

Capitalists/Libertarians who believe in small government but are also * pro nationalist * actually think they can make some society that is never compromised in its goals of ethnic nationalism.

>state control
>free market

only one is right-wing.

Oh, I forget some of you dumbcunts were weaned on koolaid, so you actually believe the fascim = right-wing meme.

>right-left dichotemy
Right and left are economic.

Today's right-left in America sees leftist advocating for social individualism and right wingers advocate for social collectivism. American left is collectivist in economics and right is individual in economics. If we were to go by American right-left dichotemy.

They are also social labels: Social collectivists are left wing, social individualists are right wing.

Fascism is both economically and socially collectivist. Ergo, left wing.

Fascism is the authoritarian right.

to elaborate, the modern left establishment is boomers who grew up being taught that the worst thing possible to be is a nazi aka fascist, so they use that as an insult, but when the next generation that hasn't been brought up on the neochristian doctrine of angelic allies vs the devil nazis googles fascism to see what it is all the right wingers are getting called, they won't have the negative association and just think "oh, it's a term for nationalists" and many will have the takaway that fascism isn't so bad or even is desirable, rather than the takaway the writer of the definition wanted, which is that right wing nationalism is the worst thing possible.

Why aren't we fascist/national socialist yet then, get rid of your ingrained american culture of being anti-authoritarian and we'd already have it.

>It organically evolves into multiculturalism without something to enforce it. YES ENFORCE.

Multiculturalism is many things, but it didn't grow organically. In fact any idiot can see that multiculturalism is enforced by (((globalists))). If multiculturalism was a natural human instinct, there would be no need for leftist propaganda in media and schools.

Boomers also think socialists and communists is the worst thing in the world. It was an interesting time.

Yet another one who confuses nationalism with patriotism.

What happens when an industry is Nationalised? Do you even understand the term "Nationalism", when it is used in it's correct form?

r

Oh I agree. We are far too statist (authoritarian) but our economics is some what centrists because our history of being the champions of capitalism is a deterrent to rapid run away socialism.

National Socialism wasn't really socialist by today's standards and actually opposed the commies. It was much more of centrist economy.

Left-Right: Determines what your ideal society is

Authoritarian-Libertarian: Determines whether or not you believe your ideal society will come about naturally if you increased the freedom of the population or if a strong central government is necessary to lead the way.

Far-Right Nationalism is generally authoritarian. Not quite as much as Socialism in regards to the economy but still quite controlling.

On the other hand Far-Right Libertarianism is, well, just that. Libertarian. They believe the ideal right-wing society will arise naturally if the government were to back off and force people to make their own decisions and siffer the conseqiences.

This is why libertarians and Nationalists seem to have the same ideal society ie: Family Orientated, Business minded, generally non-degenerative behavior, properly dressed etc....but seem to be diametrically opppsed on how said society should be created.

>This is cherrypicked.
>mfw he ignores all information that goes against his beliefs
This basically reaffirms by belief that people who aren't Sup Forums are only this way because they are either ignorant of the facts or because they ignore everything they don't like, so, thanks for that.

>stop expressing things that are counter to the propaganda I want to dominate the conversation
[citation needed]
Strawmanning again, hmm?

>What ethno culture states?
the fact that you dont realize europe is drawn on ethnic lines is pretty telling about how knowledgeable you are of this entire subect

> these nations have moved toward blurred borders and blending cultures.
Actually after 'freedom' came, and immediately after WW2, and the Yugoslav wars, countries have increasingly become more divided along ethnic lines and less multi-cultural. And maybe you haven't checked out the news but people don't really like all the immigrants going to Europe, especially the 3rd world ones.

>It organically evolves into multiculturalism without something to enforce it.
How long have you been on Sup Forums? You do realize the overwhelming majority of unrest in Europe has been caused because Europe's governments are enforcing multi-cultural policies on its people? You know, with the whole migrant crisis and how everybody fucking hated that Merkel tried to force them onto everyone? You live under a rock. But oh no, for sure, multi-culturalism is the natural state, it was the evil EU that tried to stop the migrants from coming and not the people (do you actually believe this)

>> DO realize nationalism in America is just patriotism?
Yes, clearly patriotism =/= nationalism, I was thinking this was self-evident, I used American patriots for an example of how you can combine populism/pro-people ideology and liberalism. Mm, yes, might not have been the best example to use but ultimately having a nation largely founded around a common ethnic/cultural group (as you see in EVERY european country, save Belgium but Belgium wants to split along ethnic lines anyways) obviously doesn't mean authoritarian government, as, lik eyou said, the majority of these european ethno-states are indeed liberal.
>"and multicultural"
Largely they aren't. Largely the multi-culturalism and growing presence of minorities in European cities ironically only exists because of pro-immigration policies enforced by the government.

>Though they are a minority thank god. I keep you fucked on Sup Forums where you can advocate for your evolution toward it in theory only.
I like how the more the left calls people with dissenting opinions "racists and nazis," the more the right-wing movement surges and they don't even realize its happening. Keep at it boyo

>you don't even have a political philosophy here and your Otaku moe shit reaction images doesn't change that.
Yeah, I'm not debating for any specific ideology, good job for noticing. This argument isn't about political philosophy its about meaning of nationalism, as you are clearly incapable of even realizing that.

I think it actually used to be corporate control of the state at least that's what it said for me in an old 80's webster dictionary I guess you could look at mussolini's career if you wanna know more I've never really studied the subject

>enforced
The difference between the people on this board that advocate NAZIsm and multiculturalists is that the (((globalists))) aren't actually enforcing multiculturalism no matter how much people on here want to bitch and complain. Multiculturalism and tolerance seems to be a consequence of liberty and large population density. Just because BLACKED takes up your porn feed doesn't mean government has made a law saying it has to be there and you have to watch it.

Indeed. Private enterprise is required and Hitler encouraged it and often empowered it by suppressing unions but simultaneously the amount of " freedom and rights " corporations had was much much more limited compared to a real capitalist system.

You're confusing right with patriotic.

Nationalized doesn't have a lot to do with nationalism. You are either really confused or a good Aussie.

Yes but he also suppressed dissent and enforced traditional cultural standards. He was a double whammy for authoritarianism and this is far from lost of people and it's why people invoke Nazism when calling someone out on their control freak attitudes.

after looking around online abit on specific definitions of rightwing and leftwing so i don't get my shit pushed in,
it seems the exact definition of right-wing and left-wing are muddled and have dual definitions, one definition being economic views and the other being social views.

so like, you're right but I'm right too

>the fact that you dont realize europe is drawn on ethnic lines is pretty telling about how knowledgeable you are of this entire subect

We're living in post World War Europe. Where did you get a time machine from?

>And maybe you haven't checked out the news but people don't really like all the immigrants going to Europe, especially the 3rd world ones.
Not all people. You're claim that people are less multicultural seems to reflect current events and anecdotes that reflect your views. Typical of a reactionary.

>How long have you been on Sup Forums?
Before this was Trumpniggerville.

...

In one breathe you use the fact that you have different nation-states in Europe as an example of why Europe is nationalist. In the next breathe you ignore that Europeans from different countries constitute different cultures and make the argument about immigrants from the middle east. Have you forgotten that EU is a multicultural example?

>I like how the more the left calls people with dissenting opinions "racists and nazis
A) didn't call them racists
B) we were specifically talking about patriots who advocate nazism so of course I'm going to refer to them as nazis.

Yea. Shit is constantly mixed up woth each other. Deosn't help that now the term liberal (meaning leftist, generally) in the US means the exact opppsite of what ot does in most other places (Liberal, Right Wing).

I'd still say the definitions I gave on left vs right and authoritarian vs libertarian is probably the most accurate from most sources. Of course, I would say that given the fact that I posted though.

>I'd still say the definitions I gave on left vs right and authoritarian vs libertarian is probably the most accurate from most sources.
This. We should all general use these terms in this context on here to avoid confusion. This is consistent and every political map thread goes off of this model. It also captures most historic ideologies while distinguishing the common blurred definitions the mainstream uses.

>We're living in post World War Europe. Where did you get a time machine from?
Yeah, the World wars are sort of what divided Europe even further into countries drawn along ethnic lines. You are continually showing your complete and utter ignorance of European history

>Not all people.
of course, duh.
> seems to reflect current events and anecdotes that reflect your views.
no, sorry, I thought you were mature enough to realize that the obvious polarization of european society went without saying.

> Typical of a reactionary.
Funnily enough the lefties are the reactionaries nowadays

> that the (((globalists))) aren't actually enforcing multiculturalism no matter how much people on here want to bitch and complain.
>uses the parantheses meme
>trumpniggerville
Its weird how you are fine with nonchalant racism yet are completely hostile to the idea of nationalism and any sort of pro-racist ideology

> In the next breathe you ignore that Europeans from different countries constitute different cultures
No, I didn't. immigration from other european countries is a thing that shouldn't happen, and indeed, people tend to get uppity when immigration from other european countries occurs (like the poles in britons). This doesn't detract from what i'm saying, at all...

>This is consistent and every political map thread goes off of this model.
most political compasses use economic policy to define left vs right though

regardless though, i now agree on the part about how it captures most historic ideologies

That was very informative.
Thanks leaf