People use the word socialism and they have almost no real context for the word when they use it, quite sad...

People use the word socialism and they have almost no real context for the word when they use it, quite sad. This kind of thing is a study and shouldnt be some cute slogan that one can use to be edgy or different, communism has NOTHING to do with real socialism, the so called "democratic socialism" of Bernie Sanders has NOTHING to do with real socialism. This is a way of thinking which is very quickly passing away into obscurity, something which is sad to see but perhaps might not have to be.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tq4VE8eHQ
youtube.com/watch?v=Odrfx7WmNWQ
youtube.com/watch?v=g6orEVpYbtU
skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-intermediate.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sankara#Solidarity
youtube.com/watch?v=wnvCPQqQWds
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Fuck Donald Drumpf.

True socialism is the notion that the people who work in the factories should own them, pure and simple, no vanguard, no police state that that endlessly taxes, just that pure and simple. youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tq4VE8eHQ

I like him personally, the Democrats are fucked, they dont support true freedom but the expansion o f big government, at least with Trump he is protecting our culture and its right to exist along with rolling back the power of the federal government, he is a very intelligent man and I have very high respect for him and yes I am a socialist but one that recognizes without freedom socialism does not and cannot exist.

Let's settle this

>10000 of human civilization
>From the very beginning, people have created empires with hierarchy, wealth inequality, private property, and everything else Socialists despise
>not one man thought it would be better to create a Socialist paradise where everyone is equal and gets what he deserves and what he needs
>then a bearded NEET in the 19th century creates Communism and this that's how the world works
>it gets a momentum and suddenly in the second half of 20th century, half the World is in hands of Socialists
>they fucking squander everything in every shithole they infest and turn it into a irradiated, poverty stricken cesspool of equal of greater amount of hierarchy, wealth inequality, private property, and everything else they "despise" with insane taxation that pays for "free education, healthcare, housing" and other crap that is not free but Socialists thinks it's magically free in Socialist utopia

Once the power of the federal government has whittled away then self-owned worker co ops will out compete and replace the wage slave capitalist enterprises but these kinds of conditions cannot exist unless people like Trump and the alt right succeed, bear in mind Syndicalisms other name is Libertarian Socialism which implies a very simple truism that you need two wings to fly, both left and right, at one time society must be more conservative and brutish but in others it can be more permissive and flagrant, both are necessary given the needs of the society at any given time.

>This kind of thing is a study and shouldnt be some cute slogan that one can use to be edgy or different, communism has NOTHING to do with real socialism
Communism is just socialism through a revolution.

>the literal commies found Sup Forums

>they know they are a joke right?

Communism and socialism are both Jesuit inventions designed to destroy Protestant sovereign nations. The Jesuit Communes around the world display what they are really after: Dark Ages slavery, where all peasants were "equal" under the Pope.

Communism is just as socialist as orange soda is made of oranges mate, you should read my posts on here, true socialism is anti state and anti authoritarian, what would exist as an alternative would be something more akin to volunteer militias.

I've tried already man.

Give up.

It's a lost cause.

>I-it's n-never been tried, guys! Believe me!

Fuck off kike puppet. Also what you're thinking of is anarcho-syndicalism, which is also retarded.

...

Id agree that communism is a jesuit invention but not so much socialism, Mikhail Bakunin isnt an agent and doesnt have any jewish connections as far as I can tell, this cant necessarily be said for Chomsky but often times they put out false saviors to tamper down real legitimate social movements but it doesnt necessarily diminish the real thing itself of syndicalism.

It wasnt real socialism though ffs...

Thinking in terms of the group and for the greater good? A "group" is a mental construct. The individual person is a real entity. There is no magical thing that happens when a group of individuals get behind an idea that suddenly give it an actual voice. An individual has always stepped up and presented themselves as the voice of the group. Then asks all the members of the group to give up their personal sovereignty for the greater good of the group. Enjoy warshipping your modernized slavery 2.0.

Until Sup Forums starts to have a measure of objectivity, it will always be a joke of an autism meme simulator in the shithole of the internet.

Name one system in the world that hasn't collapsed.

He has actually been called "anti-semitic" which basically lets you know he wasnt working for them. It's my opinion that real socialism was intentionally defamed by the powers that be just like real original gnostic christianity was by first killing the real legitimate versions of it and then putting up the fake version of it as a strawman to attack so no one would ever look at it again with much legitimacy, the way these sick hierarchs work.

Go on then. Explain the socialist 'way of thinking'. I always thought equality and fairness were essentially the key of socialism, but now the memelords over at left/pol/ tell me that morality is a spook. So if the case for socialism isn't moral then what is it?

Bonus question, how does this apply today Many people today work in the service industry. That is they are a tiny part in a huge machine that must be efficient and able to respond at a moments notice to changes in the market.

Bonus bonus question, do you believe that there must be a violent revolution? If not what practical steps and goals can you have today to work towards socialism?

>random people spouting their opinions without a filter
>objectivity

Pick one. Soon, preferably, lest an imported Molenbeek radical explodes on you.

Capitalism is doing fine

Let no one ever defamed socialism. It was a byproduct of the cold war that made Americans have to work it out as the enemy to everyone in the west and push that agenda until basically modern times, when it just carries on.

Then those that actually pushed socialism through turned out to be Tony fucking Blair and some retards in France and the northern countries. So people think socialists are naturally retarded.

In addition, socialism stayed way too long in some places (it has a lifespan of usefulness, much like right economics do) and shat them up.

But since you don't equate right wing politics to the enemy because the US won, you don't blame right wing economic policies for the sad state of quality of life the US or Britain (for example) are, but do blame socialism for the failures it had.

That doesnt prevent intelligent people in many countries where socialism is warranted from voting it, but it does mean that memelords parrot these ideas of retarded socialism.

Capitalism has collapsed as many times as socialism.

Socialism usually arrives through a collapse in capitalism.

Coming up with your own bullshit interpretations of something to excuse all of its wrong doings is retarded. Pure Socialism is a stepping stone to Communism. As a National Socialist I dont think Socialism is necessarily evil, but It definetley is a stepping stone to Red Terror if handled wrong.

That is basically the textbook definition of socialism guy "a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." Dont let the propaganda fool you to think otherwise. Dude youre BSing yourself clearly it seems, if you want to protect white culture then youll do things like be a syndicalist and just build up culture in general like yours but also including others, going out and attacking other culture and being a supremacist only makes things worse. Also to help others is to help yourself but also to keep others from wanting to hurt you. Also if you REALLY want to defend our culture then you should be lombasting Zionism and not the false lie that was its sick creation being National Socialism. World War 2 was orchestrated along with the holocaust as an excuse to create the state of Israel, sick disgusting thing that it is however note I am not anti jewish but anti Zionist as in tribal Zionism that says the Jews must oppress all other cultures.

>going out and attacking other culture and being a supremacist only makes things worse

Most here just want to be left alone. Socialists saying 'you can't have socialism in one country' is exactly the reason you find it so hard to get a foothold here. Why I see it, you get your own house in order first before looking to global revolution.

>the textbook definition of socialism guy "a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

Textbook definitions of philosophies cannot ever encompass it in its fullest, if you follow them to the letter you are literally uneducated and not clever at all.

I never said that it did encompass it to the fullest however I am claiming that this conception is very much something that exists in the consciousness of our species.

I can't see that working. Democracy is a clusterfuck of division wherever it's implemented, having each manufacturers actions dictated by majority vote would be a clusterfuck for the economy and constantly lose market share to and manufacturer not using such a fucked up system.

>MUH BROCIALISM, NO ONE UNDERSTANDS DUH BROCIALISM BUT ME

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

the only good socialism was natsoc, fug off Marx fag

i may be a nationalist but i have more respect and sympathy for socialists and commies then i do for right and left liberals aswel as mainstream conservatives.
We share the same enemies the difference is our analysis and our future visions.
It's sad that the radical left and right continue to fight each others instead of focusing on the real problem

...

...

I can tell you that socialism sucks dick and anyone who wants into socialism should be castrated or executed. Or both.

"democratic socialism" is shit.

Absolutely no country has failed under capitalism

Gommunism spread mostly because of WWI (that the Germans caused), yes?
Not to mention Marx and Engels were Germans

Really makes you think. . .

modern west is killing itself thanks to free market fundamentalism.
Capitalism is one of the main subversive forces killing traditionalism and nationalism.
Globalism is capitalism in a smaller more conected world

Democracy isnt perfect but it's better than tyranny, collectives will always exist dude and it's best to have the greater good then the good of the minority which is tyranny. Minority rights should be respected of course and in a perfect democracy everyone rules so minority rights are implicit in a democracy, it's not always respected but if people are left alone in general then minorities will be as well and you dont get that in cases where fake socialisms like communism or fake religions like christianity or islam or judaism etc. show up and tell people to kill non believers etc. I however feel these things are only temporary perversions and that humanity is evolving passed them through time. A true democracy is an ambition, one to be strived for. What's the better alternative, no collectives? If that were the case you wouldnt have been born since families are collectives, collectives always exist dude, to say they dont isnt logical.

Life is not a black and white thing by the way folks, being different and progressive and coming up with new ideas can be considered to be liberal and left wing but really Syndicalism is a state of being that fluctuates, it does require from time to time to act in ways that people would consider "right wing" such as being nationalistic and owning guns and defending your property and your territory, peoples minds are fucked because of the Hegelian Dialetic in which people basically think in terms that the right brain is bad and the left brain is good or the left brain is bad and the right brain good, too many Anarchists and Socialists are like brainwashed pussy buffoons and are too stereotypical in their being SJWs but really that isnt what this stuff is about, you still have nations with this stuff and you even still have private property rights although they are recognized as being in a collective, you cant OWN a forest or a river that an entire community uses for example. Something to keep in mind folks, think outside of the box and dont fall for the media mind control propaganda BS! You can thank the lefties for keeping this stuff alive but it's about time more conservative leaning people start seriously considering its reality as an appropriate economic system because Im here to tell ya folks, capitalism is horseshit, it's inherently self destructive and it wastes time, energy, and resources and actually contributes to tyranny of the bankers, governments, et. al

When your capitalist society literallly kills hundreds of millions of people and is the driving force of man-made global warming and the rich exploit the poorest like the leeches they are but that's okay because iphones

Fuck off with your raids

Global warming is a load of horseshit and doesnt exist user, we pollute the atmosphere mindlessly but the Sun is behind the gradual warming of the atmosphere, if anything all that smog is cooling our planet down too much.

So much cringe go back to your containment board ugly autistic betamale

G*rmans also shipped Lenin back to Russia to lead the revolution.

They are the destroyers of civilization and have brought nothing but suffering and death to our world.

youtube.com/watch?v=Odrfx7WmNWQ

Lefty music is best music

No it's not kill yourself underage neckbeard

youtube.com/watch?v=g6orEVpYbtU

How goes things in your country with the commie party in charge Greekbro?

Fact: Richest 62 people has as much wealth as half of the world's population and the gap is widening each day
Fact: 21000 people die a day due to poverty, which amounts to 7,655 million each year.

You make the connections yourself.

Wrong:
skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-intermediate.htm

The sun has played a small role in temperature, but it doesn't discound the fact that man-made global warming is an ongoing trend that is still a problem

>Fact: Richest 62 people has as much wealth as half of the world's population and the gap is widening each day
ayy lmao commie talking about famine

>Fact: 21000 people die a day due to poverty, which amounts to 7,655 million each year.
How many of these are from non-white counties, with limited civilization?

>lefties are neckbeards
>Trumpists aryan masterrace

huhu

Terrible they opened the borders and now the country is filled with over 100000 afghans pakis and syrians. Every time I go to the city center I see dozens of fat mudslime women covered head to toe and their 3-4 sandnigglets running all around them

You sound like such a basic bitch leftcuck mongoloid I won't even bother

>Niggers are dying in africa so I am a commie now!!!

Autistic simpleton cretinous neckbeard

Same with nationalism...

You aren't even white

When Thomas Sankara, the Marxist President of Burkina Faso, redistributed land from landlords to the peasants, wheat production increased from 1700 kg per hectare to 3800 kg per hectare, making the country food self-sufficient.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sankara#Solidarity

Of course, the French bourgeoisie scum did not like his type and got rid of him years later and now the country is in the shitter now again.

Stop roleplaying as a country you autistic underage dweeb. Go to youtube and watch soviet hell march videos you cringy fuck nobody cares

There were plenty of socialist countries in africa after decolonisation. They all failed. Niggers are just dumb violent animals. Even Eastern Germany couldn't make socialism work.

I should also add that he successfully vaccinated 2,5 million kids in a short span and prioritized educational interests. A leftist did this.

Reactionaries are silly. They are used by the bourgeoisie elite to fight and die for them.

What are you trying to say? Let me help you, socialism is institutionalized violence.
If you think that all people are equal and that wealth is the result of theft / exploitation, you are completely retarded. Socialism and all derivates (communism, social democrat shit, etc etc) is inherently totalitarian and can suck my salty balls.

I'm not going to defend liberal capitalism. Third position movements (fascism) also improve productivity, employment and the economy. Yet I'm sure you being a Marxist ideologue would have a problem with that.

>Reactionaries are silly. They are used by the bourgeoisie elite to fight and die for them.
And Marxists totalitarian leaders have been known sending people to their deaths in the name of their ideology.

...

>memepictures
>calling people "underaged"
>c-c-c-cuuuuuuuck


And not a single argument was provided.

...

Argument for what? "socialism is good" is an opinion (a very stupid one). How could you argue against an opinion?
The burden of proof is upon you, socialist. Since socialism is violence and theft, tell me how and why violence and theft is moral.

PS pls also elaborate on how 150+ million deaths caused by socialism aren't a strong indication that socialsim sucks donkey balls.

If you want anti-Marxist arguments, look through the archives. I doubt this will change your position though, since you are probably here to change others opinions, and not your own.

If you can neither provide security from external threats, nor do as you purport your ideology to be, then why should anyone take you seriously?

the same way people take marx seriously. A guy who was a leech all his life and couldn't handle money at all preaching to the world how evil capitalism is.
Marx is like that 400 pound guy selling diet books. It only works if your target audience is really really stupid.

So what kind of socialism do you want and how do we get it?

This goes to you two too.

Socialism is selfishness

I must admit that even the socialism lefty pol advocates (USSR style) has nothing to do with socialism.

Why?

Because it is not possible to have REAL socialism because everything degenerates before achieving the true collective ownership of means of production.

this is hilarious guys, replace "socialism" with "islam"

Well I don't lose my house when I get sick, I don't lose my job when the boss wants to fuck with my rights and I go on strike, I don't have to get forever in debt to pay for my education...

See none of this has to do with the Stalin/Mao meme and yet they're socialists ideals

You can't stump all the benefits and progresses made under lefty governments by pointing to a Georgian thug or by spouting definitive sentences like "socialism is violence and theft".

the argument is that socialism is theft and violence. All you are saying is that "socialism is cool because I got free stuff!"
>other people are forced to pay for your education
>other people have to comensate for your lazyness at work
>A benefactor of socialism preaching to us how nice socialism is

>zero arguments provided

Plenty of Marxists would argue that is not real socialism. Do the workers own the means of production? No? Then it's not real socialism.

You're really dense.
I pay for those things, that's called social security, it's an insurance system, I pay taxes on revenue and sales tax.
The purpose of a government is to insure the protection of the people not of the capital.

Also you gratuitously pointing to "lazyness" which is clearly an extrapolation and a fallacy but I guess that you'd rather get paid 2€ an hour than have the legal right to take your employer to court.
Keep greentexting meaninglessly.

I don't care about hardcore marx-babbys.

>I don't care about hardcore marx-babbys.
Yes I could tell. You only like free stuff.

Fuck of with your 'muh real socialism'. It has failed every time it has been tried, be it due to its own inefficiencies or external factors. Full democratic control of the workplace and state (dictatorship of the Proletariat) will NEVER happen. Anybody who claims this is what they want is being intellectually dishonest as they KNOW it will never happen therefor their system can never be proven wrong.

Your real choices, if you want socialism are DemSoc, SocDem or state capitalist. Sure, you can propose more measures under each of these that would improve the lives of the workers, but that would involve getting your hands dirty and actually putting forward a proposal instead of just attacking 'the man' and 'the system'. Ball's in your court commie scum.

ok you're right I admit I only like free stuff.

I leave this here, for free.

youtube.com/watch?v=wnvCPQqQWds

can you cancel your state-run insurance, and switch to a cheaper insurance company, socialist? No? So you are like, forced to pay for it?

Listen, you are avoiding talking about anything other than your stupid opinions. My question / challenge is, again: Explain to me how you justify theft and violence. Do you understand why socialism is theft, and NEEDS violence in order to work? Should I explain that as well?

>communism has NOTHING to do with real socialism,

Not according to Marx, but the whole logic of you true believers is "it would work this time if only someone as clever as me was in charge".

To be fair, so does private property. Private property is enforced by the state using the only state mandated tool allowed to use violence.

The Under-Man is unconvertible. He will not bow to the new truth, because he knows that the new truth is not for him. Why should he work for a higher civilization, when even the present civilization is beyond his powers ? What the Under-Man wants is, not progress, but regress regress to more primitive conditions in which he would be at home. In fact, the more he grasps the significance of the new eugenic truth, the uglier grows his mood. So long as all men believed all men potentially equal, the Under-Man could delude himself into thinking that changed circumstances might raise him to the top. Now that nature herself proclaims him irremediably inferior, his hatred of superiority knows no bounds.


This hatred he has always instinctively felt. Envy and resentment of superiority have ever been the badges of base minds. Yet never have these badges been so fiercely flaunted, so defiantly worn, as to-day. This explains the seeming paradox that, just when the character of superiority becomes supremely manifest, the cry for levelling "equality" rises supremely shrill. The Under- Man revolts against progress! Nature herself having decreed him uncivilizable, the Under-Man declares war on civilization.

These are not pretty facts. But we had better face them, lest they face us, and catch us unawares. Let us, then, understand once and for all that we have among us a rebel army the vast host of the unadaptable, the incapable, the envious, the discontented, filled with instinctive hatred of civilization and progress, and ready
on the instant to rise in revolt.

Here are foes that need watching. Let us watch
them.
----The Revolt Against Civilization

I am anti-Marxist user. I was pointing out a hypocrisy in how Marxists also use the 'no true Scotsman' argument for socialist failure, but say things like this are achieved because of socialism, when in reality it's neo-liberalism. Which I am also against because of

Kys

that's not really true though. The state doesn't protect my property (the state does not exist). I do. Going after thieves AFTER they have stolen property is not "protection", it's revenge. The state doesn't protect you from rape or theft. It initiates physical violence towards the perpetrator afterwards, which is pretty useless. Call the police and tell them to protect your car. What will their reaction be?

Ahhh. My bad. Yeah, you're a lot like me. Neo-lib is kike cancer. Communism is kike cancer. National Socialism IS the answer. But not 'socialism' in the 'no true socialsim' sense that lefty faggots talk about. As I explained, they advocate for an impossible system precisly because it is impossible, thus they can never be demonstrably wrong. Yeah, fuck that noise.

NatSoc that I'm talking about would have

Strong welfare system FOR CITIZENS ONLY
Strategic industries nationalised
Trump-esqe 'You move your business abroad and I'll fucking kneecap your family'

Basically, the nation is its people. The people should work together for the nation and thus themselves.

Is this really that much to fucking ask?

All good. And I agree with everything you just said.

What stops all the homeless people in Norway coming together and taking your house? Its not you and whatever gun you're going to pretend you have. It is the state. The state protects your legal rights with the powers it has available. I'm not saying right or wrong on this. Just pointing out that you attack his system saying it is akin to state bullying, but if you're on the bottom rung of the social ladder, you'll likely be feeling this bullying in one way or another under the current system.

> The state doesn't protect you from rape or theft

>What is deterrence

The Roman empire.

[spoiler] It's still running strong as the church[/spoiler]

Pisses me off that the left (left/pol/ and reddit not tumblr and libtards) refuse POINT BLANK to discuss NatSoc when it is actually both viablke and desirable today. Is there anywhere decent for more indepth discussion and reading of modern natsoc? Here is too quick. 8/pol/ is ok but a bit sensitive if you deviate from their exact ideology. Stormfront is almost a parody of itself at times. VNN is too focused on jews. Iron March is all fucking over the place.

>Sup Forums Sup Forums
I find here, that there are still many people who are libertarian and pro-free market/Austrian School. And the number of shitposts and bait threads is a little too much.

>atechan Sup Forums
Agreed. They can be paranoid as hell, but can you blame them? Look at this thread and this one for example They can't handle any criticism of national socialism, which is unfortunate because I am still one the fence about a few things.

>VNN
What's that?

>Iron March
Worth visiting?

>bottom rung of the social ladder

The bottom rung on the evolutionary ladder.

See this:I spotted the under-man anyway.

Because Hitler's flavor of collectivism is going to be any different than Marx's.

The main downside with collectivism is that it necessarily robs from the worker to pay the bum. It punishes the successful to reward mediocrity and failure.

The premise is based on finding a leader who will not abuse the power necessary to achieve the proposed goals of the system. Good luck with finding the truly benevolent king, much less ensuring his successors are also selfless and wise enough to not turn it into North Korea.

The Nazi party was created, influence, and funded by English (Rosicrucian) freemasonry as an antithesis for French (Templar) freemasonry's Bolshevik communism, and to set the stage for the creation of the modern state of Israel.

Hitler was basically a white Obama. A half-breed who was a useful idiot, was easily led, and could speak reasonably well to the people.

Lastly even if you want to LARP a 4th Reich, Hitler himself even said that national socialism wasn't meant for export, it was for Germans in Germany in that time period. Much of their platform helped the volk, but if you think it was overall effective you should truck off to Germany and enjoy the fruits that that tree yielded.

Oh and FYI rightstuff dot biz has a lot of Hitler youth LARP types as does daily stormer. I'm with you guys on the white nationalism bit but you can leave collectivism for the mud races, I aspire to more in life than demanding the state steal from someone else to give me free shit.

Wrong thread linked

>What stops all the homeless people in Norway coming together and taking your house?
You are confusing what the state "could / should do / be" and what is actually "is / does".

Bringing forth hypothetical beneficial examples of state power is not part of an argument. In fact, organised hobos is something that sounds eerily like "socialist revolution" :)

Also, NatSoc is a flavor of socialism and has the same issues, namely that it uses violence to force other people to do stuff they don't want.

We can't say that "humans are social beings, but need compulsion in order to form societies". This is an obvious contradiction.

>What's that?

Vanguard News Network. VNNforum. ANd sure, check it out. You will not be disapointed. Some of their bantz makes here look tame. But as I say, their membership is more interested in exposing the jew than planning anything proactive.

>Worth visiting?

In the same vein as I'm sure leftists may visit Revleft. Wild and edgy ideology abounds. Iron March is more explicitly fascist, but I've not spent a huge amount of time there.

>The main downside with collectivism is that it necessarily robs from the worker to pay the bum.

Even Rome had a dole line user. How do you think we're going to manage without it come full automation? It is expected that up to 80% of jobs will be lost in certain sectors. Not everyone can be a doctor. If the nation is successful then bennies are a small price to pay for social cohesion. Now if you like we can meet halfway. Bennies for citizens, in the form of UBI, but a soft eugenics program to offset the dysgenic effect of nowork lazy bums. One more thing, in favour of some collectivism, you are advocating for the polar opposite, full individualism. What stops a group of individuals banding together to appropriate your shit if not the state?

exactly

That's not the crux of my argument, though that you and I are talking is evidence to the fact that we are indeed social creatures. This is not to say that compitition is not natural. It's just the cold, hard longview. Three are almost 8bn people in the world. Maximum 1.5bn of them are white, and we're becoming a smaller and smaller part of it. If we don;t have some kind of collectivism, we will be stomped by the brown hordes sooner or later.