Make the Welfare state great again

Is basic income really viable? Do you think it is better than minimum wage? If so, why?

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>basic income
please keep a child forever

I'm not saying I support basic income, I just want opinions.

It is theft to take money from a person to give it to another.

Not when retarded shitskins get even more money for doing nothing. I think it will be great in a high IQ homogeneous society, it gives people the freedom to create stuff without the pressure of work.

Socialism is trash and is always immoral. Fuck off.

Money grows on trees and eletricity comes from wall

Do you know what we really need? Unconditional basic income AND unlimited migration.

Of course since there will be no more welfare thanks to basic income, 4350 euros a month that migrants will get will be called `existencional humanitarian aid.`

I can already see that socialist utopia!

if you do not work you do not eat

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

Aaaand it is hypocritical scam for libertarian to live in western countries and not fuck off to Somalia.

You don't need a basic income as a right, if you want more money, sell drugs or go to school.

The problem with comparing basic income to minimum wage is that only a few million people get paid minimum wage whereas basic income would be given to a much larger segment of society.

So the effects of both on things like prices and productivity are hard to compare.

Does anyone know the details of how much would be offered and to whom?

It would only be a viable option if almost all jobs were automated, since there would literally be no work to do.

Absolutely bullshit. Why should I, a hard working employee be forced to pay for thousands of lazy cunts that can barely lift a finger to save their own life.

If anything, these people should be rounded up into camps amd forced to learn how to contribute to society.

I imagine a very libertarian society where there are just barely enough taxes to pay for basic income and then no other government gibs whatsoever.

Why

Basic income is the most unfair of policies.

Makes every person entitled to a bit society´s wealth, even if they absolutely refuse to contribute to society. It punishes those who have a job, make money and make a contribution in favor of those who dont work at all.

Negative Income Tax is the real way forward.

> Believes in making money
> Doesn't believe in working for it
"How to get your opinion discarded and other fallacies: A story of homosexuality" --OP

I used to love this guy's channel
Until he's like
Uh... It's not sexist to notice differences between genders but race? No all of us are the same.
What a cuck, literally had the answers in front of him, looked at them, saw what they implied and decided they were bad facts.

No, fuck off with your hidden socialism.

>Is basic income really viable?
What if someone had 10-15 children (which is not an uncommon number for gypsy families for example) and then all of them would collect basic income. Then they would live off basic income supplemented by begging and stealing. Also due to the sheer size of the family they could cut costs on feeding/clothing them.

So basically you'd have a huge parasyte on society that does nothing productive.

Now the real kicker is that gypsies already do this successfully in a fucking third world shithole on whatever scraps we have for wellfare. In a basic income situation it would be exactly the same, except they're getting more money for free. This is the reality of basic income.

It's literally paying people for nothing.

If there's one thing we've seen in the last decade or two, it's that welfare states are not sustainable... EXPANDING welfare even more is not the answer.

If you want to get paid, you need to contribute.

They should make in like $1000 a month. Enough to pay for a place to live, and good to eat.


Then the millions of poor people who work 40 hours a week will suddenly be earning $2000 a month and their quality of life massively improves

Pandora's box has already opened. The people have tasted the welfare state and they won't let it be taken awa. Therefor we have to make it as efficient as possible, that is the NIT.

>automation
>No jobs
This is the dumbest meme ever, it's like none of you are in sales or industrial tech

No. We cut them off and tell them to fuck off.

Is this meant to be ironic that FORWARD looks like it's been blood stained?

Right, because that has historically worked out so well.

And we should make it so only people working get it.


This will do away with the need for food stamps and most welfare.

>2000 bank notes are worth something in a mad Max style collapse

>Do you think it is better than minimum wage
Yes, as long as there isn't inflation it should be mandatory.
>If so, why?
Because then society (or the people who don't want to be slaves) can focus on more important things and build a better world. So don't get me wrong, basic income should be mandatory but laziness not.

Look, I'm sick and tired of enabling parasites. You might not be. Feel free to give them your own money.

some jobs get replaced, but when we reach full-scale automation, there won't be enough tech jobs for 1 out of 10 people. Because automation will increase productivity incredibly, it would be just easier and more worthwhile to redistribute it instead of having a bunch of unemployed people who are also ripe for revolt.

This will be far down the line, though, and it is not possible now or probably even in our lifetime or our children's lifetime.

Yeah hundreds of millions of people will be doing that. Genius.

In a perfect world I agree with you. But we do not live in a perfect world and far too many people will be weak and not cut them off. The only solution outside of that is to make it a better system. Reward people for working, our current system encourages never moving beyond the threshold of dependency. It is modern day slavery and they've all developed Stockholm syndome.

As in he's a cuck for not overtly calling himself a sexist/misogynist?

You get basic income, but you aren't allowed any children and you have no voting rights.

Which is only perpetrated by the system you are encouraging to expand. Cut off the teet of government dependence and we can evaluate the issues again. Yes some people will suffer, they need to step up or deal with the consequences. You also act like charity doesn't exist.

>ITT leftists missing the concept of inflation

If everyone was given a million dollars, businesses would just raise prices by a million dollars.

if we finally let robots do everything it would work

That's a semi reasonable solution

I'd take it if it was just the no kids one. everyone deserves voting rights you fucking retard

It's fucking retarded, just like communism.

There should no minimum wage and no basic income at all. This is an eat-and-kill world. You don't go eating what the other man just killed.

>Is basic income really viable?
No.

>Do you think it is better than minimum wage?
No, and the minimum wage should be abolished.

But then you just get unemployed basic welfare niggers voting for more stuff. It'd be a checks and balances type thing

How do you pay for it? Lets assume that everyone over the age of 18 in Spain gets 5,000 Euros per year just for existing. That is very roughly 40 million people. So The cost of basic income for Spain would be around TWO HUNDRED BILLION EUROS. The total revenue received by the Spanish government in 2015 was 338 Billion Euros.

It's not feasible. 5,000 Euros per year isn't really enough to do anything, and it would bankrupt the government. Increasing the amount makes it even more impossible to fund while decreasing the amount makes it irrelevant.

The math is the same for every country.

based leaf

>that quote

Has nobody pointed out that Mussolini once said the exact same thing about fascism?

at this time its retarded since very few jobs have been fully automated, but 100 years down the line when a majority of the jobs are automated, it would begin to make sense. There are also issues that arise too, like who will do the work required (like maintenance of machines, creating new machines, etc...) if they are guaranteed to get an income either way. Most humans are naturally lazy, so there would have to be some coercion by some force to make the people intelligent enough to do these jobs work. It sounds good on the surface in the future, but its retarded right now and has some questions in the future

Basic income and war are the two topics which Sup Forums seems to go full retard on.

On any given day making fun of welfare monkeys is something almost everyone can get behind. Yet the idea of giving even more people money for not doing anything is a highly debated topic here. Im surprised most people in this thread are against it

This

It makes more sense when you realize at least 50% of Sup Forums are NEETs. They want the gibmedats

How about basic universal employment instead?

If you are unemployed, and able to work, you MUST work at least 16 hours a week (2x 8 hour days).

You will be employed performing road clean up, garbage/recyclable sorting, manual labor such as hauling gravel or loading trucks, picking fruit, courier work, postal delivery, or other jobs that fit your skill set if you have one.

In exchange, you get work experience and a basic income set to the average of your location's rent for a 1 bedroom studio and $200-400 for food, transport, clothing and incidentals (rate set by area).

If you have skills or education, you might also be added to a government temp agency where you will be called on to perform short-order work that is bid on by outside companies. Companies can contract you at a reduced work time (no more than 25 hours a week) at pro-rated wages (less than a full time worker, but better than manual labor), and a maximum of 1 year, after which your performance is evaluated and you could be offered a full-time position.

Companies that use this government temp service would have strict standards for grading on performance, and require thorough documentation showing you performed below standards to reject you as a full-time employee. Companies that fail to do so would be excluded from the program to prevent abuse of it.

> Is basic income really viable?
Yes, but only if you have no clue how inflation works.

...

ok, so here`s tha plan:
>gibs basic income ( somewhere about 800 fur alle )
>end other gibs immediately
>prices rise, and wages rise, so it did not really do nothing for working-man
>but the rat and leech got no real gibs now
>profit
>(works most in high-socialism countries like Finngolia)

>implying sales and industrial tech couldn't be automated

The worker still gets to keep their UBI.

That picture is pure bullshit. The stuff in the 2005 cart couldn't be bought on $20 even in 1990.

>99745347
>basic income viable
hahaha. hahahaha

is living on reservations viable? is poor shits abos in australia viable.

aids.

>I'm not saying I support basic income, I just want opinions.

Yes, you fucking are.

Eat shit commie.

Basic income, as I see it (and I'm a staunch capitalist) will become a transitional phase (way of life) for a generation or so until after the robotisation of most all jobs.

What we're currently waiting for is the average person's intellect to catch up to our own current progress.

Look at white societies, and replacement birth rates. White societies are ready for the robotisation of jobs in order to pursue "selfish endeavors". That next phase of selfish endeavors will take us to the stars. We cannot get there until the rest of the world is capable of playing along.

Every time a nation decides to go into Africa or Asia to implement something (railways for the gathering of natural resources, roads for commerce of food and clothing, etc.), within a year or so of leaving, the entire system is decimated by local culture turning away from it.

You could honestly setup Atlantis in Zimbabwe, and within a few years after leaving, it will be gone.

This happened in South Africa. It happened in India, it has happened in other regions where the US (military) no longer has a presence. Human progress just isn't ready yet. I'm only afraid Roddenberry was an absolute visionary in how he believed human progress will carry itself out.

>Makes every person entitled to a bit society´s wealth, even if they absolutely refuse to contribute to society
That is how it is already here at least, so fooling people with the great plan: would work a while.

Sounds good in theory, in practice it's 100% guaranteed the system would be abused for cheap labor and any of the built in ways to prevent that would be ignored because of kickbacks. Corporate greed will always win out in the end.

We have a system like that here in Australia where people receiving welfare payments need to go out and work and it's abused.

If implemented it should just be kept to community work rather than as a pseudo employee for a business looking for cheap labor

Only one thing is needed, to kill everyone who has 5 times bigger salary than average, then employ every human and you don't need welfare or basic income. What's needed is fair play.

>Corporate greed will always win out in the end.
So what, work and buy your part of the greed corporatism.

I was thinking about mincom but with transparent spending.

This shit is proven to be easily taken advantage of but if enough people show that they can spend that money on good shit, why not?

There is two ways this would go, either it would encourage people to work for non-transparent spending on whatever fucking degenerate shit they want, or people would cheat, steal and generally be human garbage with money behind government back like always.

I think they tried that somewhere already, and it did not work so well.

quit trying to force meme a certain culture to change and live another way. they dont respect that shit.

>Killing the most useful members of society
Oh shit, your post gave me cancer. Shame I can't get cured because you just killed off all the radiologists and surgeons.

It is not viable. If the income is enough to live on, then the amount of money required to pay for it is ridiculous.

If everyone in the US got $10000 in basic income each year, the cost would be more than $3 trillion. That is almost the entire federal budget.

I don't think it would ever work, unless we accept a very diminished progression in all scientific and engineering fields as a result.

Typically, the higher tier jobs are being supported by a large lower tier jobs portion of the work force.

In order for engineers and scientists to provide top end cars and design new cars, there first needs to be an entire industry centered around maintaining them. Maintenance, repair, paint, fuel, the oil industry, gas stations, the list goes on and on. Without those, there can not be an elite set of engineers working on the next generation of cars, or at the very least, not as many.

Essentially, most jobs fit somewhere on a big pyramid, where each floor supports the next one above it.

This is the crux of the problem, most people do not want to do the shitty jobs at the bottom. If given the choice, if all your basic needs are being taken care of and work is entirely optional, which is what basic income would do, most simple workers would quit working entirely. This would mean a massive decrease in scientific and other high tier fields.

Again, it COULD work, we don't really need to strive for the stars and higher fields of excellence, but this is the consequence.

Note how this whole system does not have to go away if we can reliably replace low skilled workers with robots in all fields. If automization becomes so widespread that any loss of human labor is more than equally compensated by artifical labor, then a basic income is not only not a problem anymore, it's also practically a requirement.

In a post wide-scale automization society, a basic income is necessary when a large portion of the population is unemployable. Not everyone can be a scientist and you cannot sustain an economy on artists.

OP basic income WILL HAPPEN.

BUT NOT ANYTIME SOON

i give it maybe 30-40 years before we see it.

Well, maybe the Atlantis should be set up somewhere else, like Northern Europe, and not let retards in there.
Problems come, when born-"Atlanteans" have to be removed, due low IQ...

It worked splendid in Nazi Germany, Soviet Union or any time after they beheaded monarchy scum. Problem today isn't billionaires, it's simply that there's too many of them. Once every so much time one needs to kill off elites to survive. The longer one waits, more shitty the war. Some time in future when we wait too long to kill elites we will all go extinct, simply because of our advanced nature. Wouldn't it be fun to put a bullet into Merkel's head and tie Rothschild around fire and light them up? Immediately you would have more money, simply because it wouldn't disappear. You would also get much lower crime, since you have less exploitation and illegal business bosses.

Neither of them are.

Federal minimum wage should be abolished.

It's already done on the reserves up here.

No, it does not work.

Then we can all be equally poor with no means to better our own situations with a little motivation and determination!

Equality, baby!

There's nothing useful about exploiting Anglo bank or some fat cows who can't even lose weight.
No such thing as useful bosses anywhere on this planet, bosses are totally no needed, workers do all the work, only thing boss should be doing is taking responsibility and planning, but since workers do that nowadays too, it's safe to kill every boss.

I love that "hurr durr FORWARD" rhetoric, it can be used for everything
>absolute monarchy isn't left or right, it's FORWARD
>killing all niggers aint about left or righ, it's about FORWARD
>strangling gender snowflakes with piano wire isn't matter of politics, it's WAY FORWARD
>burning kikes in hellpits isn't left or right, it's FORWARD

>Wouldn't it be fun
But user, i have lot over average income..
Pretty sure 5 times Slovenian av..

The next phase of selfish endeavors sees mankind throw away everything we've worked to build up to willingly become slaves to an automated prison run by a few elites.

When humans become obsolete, they will be murdered by robot hands at the behest of the technocrats who own the robots, since they control food, media, transportation, medicine, basic utilities, and more.

not happening
get a job faggots

I am talking about average in your country. Money is nothing but an illusion. As long as you can buy everything it works, when that's not the case the system isn't working. Human shouldn't be working longer than 2 years to buy a car, house and have money for food.

b..but all of those are true, no?

They still lose. The amount they contribute is superior to the amount they recieve in that concept. The more they contribute, the bigger the difference.

This is not some unemployment subsidy to help workers during a bad time or a transition between jobs, this ios an inconditional transfer of wealth from the workers to the non workers.

Those who work illegally, those who engage in criminal activity and those who dont work at all are the great winners under this system. And your average worker is the great loser, as they will pay for most of it, as always.

>in your country
You really think that shit would not insta-spread Europe-wide? EU is pretty much a country now.

creating a universal world race, religion, and nation isn't left or right, it's forward

UBI could be a thing but:
Requires more automation to ensure men alone can fulfill all job openings without immigrant workers
Requires that women must raise children at home
ONLY for families and ONLY as a supplement. If the man does not work you will receive no basic income
Provisions must be put in place to ensure neither wages nor purchasing power are lowered with the start of UBI.

If you government issued every legal resident $5000 a month, how fast do you think prices would rise to consume all of it, requiring the government to then double the amount handed out?

Think about it. Unless you control all the markets to keep prices flat, more money will drive up the price for all goods and services, because its more money available for chasing the same amount of goods and services.

creating it by getting rid of some, sure.

end all welfare and regulation
end all government payouts except military and courts
its that simple
youtube.com/watch?v=dGnue1Cdu7M&t=1994s

Everybody during Socialism could buy a house, buy a car, by just working for 1 years. It's not like salary has changed so much, it's the fact that tax got much higher, apartments cost 10 times more, food is more expensive and more shitty, but you have more variety of shit. Besides that you had at disposal a Socialistic block almost for free. I can't even sell alcohol nowadays, they have such stupid tax, they have stupid laws to benefit corporation GMO produced licensed plants and nobody can sell 1000 different types of grapes in store to make a profit. It's time to clean the shit up, build gulags, gas chambers and concentration camps. I don't mind how much of them multiplied, virus is a virus, needs to be killed off.

> Le "not enough jobs" meme
They said that 6000 years ago when plow Oxen were going to take honest slaves out of business and fuck honest working men's wives.

It wasn't true then. It's not true now. It may very well never be true due to mankind's infinite ability to WANT things.

I have lived as NEET and it is terrible.

Work is relative, so you can't escape it.

You'll get to the point where you're having to force yourself to do leisure activities, just to avoid lying in bed all day.

I don't normally browse pol, sometimes look here out of curiosity, just like with /po/ or /diy/. But this board is so fucking retarded it takes away any incentive to post.
Basic income won't necessarily cause inflation, because in principle it won't increase the amount of money in the circulation (it is meant to REPLACE welfare). In such version it was even supported by Milton Friedman (negative tax).

>Basic income won't necessarily cause inflation,
Where does the money COME FROM, shitbrain?

Protip: It doesn't come from people on welfare.