When did Naruto stop being good?

Its quality dropped so much, and it ran for so fucking long, that most people will say it was never good. But it was a really good shonen series once. It had world-building, great fights, and character development.

What the fuck happened?

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Part 2.

fuck off narutards

Chunnin exams or if you want to drag it longer Shippuden

It was never good.

>Part 1
after naruto vs sasuke
>Part 2
After five kage submit

Around the time Kishimoto was starting on the character designs and the first chapter, now fuck off faggot.

Probably around the time Naruto stopped being a meme kagebunshin babby and got powerlevel shit like rasengan.

>narootoe
>good
>ever

Part 1 ended perfectly, but everything fell apart with Sasuke's plot taking over part 2. All they had to do was wrap it up early, and get team 7 back together again. Instead we got Sai, Sasuke becoming an edgelord, and everything being about sharingans. There were moments in between where it got back on track (Pein arc), but the Kage summit was fucking bullshit.

Naruto hyperventilating and passing because he was worried about Sasuke, and Danzo with the arm made out of motherfucking sharingan eyeballs. Was he even trying?

So mad

At least it's not bleach

Yeah, nah.

Shippuden was the beginning of the end.

Question two: What did Naruto learn to do during his two years of training with pervert frog man? I can't remember for some reason. During the couple months or something they spent together on screen he learned Rasengan and summoning jutsu.

This.

It forgot that it was supposed to be a show about ninjas. Rather, that it was supposed to be a series about a really bad and untalented ninja.

Up until Shippuuden, the show was about literally everyone but Naruto. He was really bad and incompetent, but somehow made it through with a handful of tricks. Then timeskip happened and somehow he was supposed to be really good, on par with Neji even.

Around this time, Kishimoto was probably realizing that whatever ending he had in mind originally was far too gone to be used, he had to come up with something else. So that's when everything started being about eye prowess and special ninjutsu only certain people can use. They both existed before, but now everyone had something like that that made them unique and overpowered. Hardworkers/talenteds, which included some of the cast's most popular characters such as Rock Lee, Shikamaru, Tenten and Kiba got sidelined, and then forgotten altogether. And as we get closer to the ending, it's all about legendary ancient "Ninja" like Madara and the first 2 Kages. Finally, the absolute bullshit plot elements like recurring reincarnations, space aliens, the divine tree, parallel universe shifting, and the stuff we're currently seeing all kick in. Nothing which was even remotely hinted.

tl;dr It was about common people being Ninjas, then it became about legendary Ninjas, then about super wizards, and it's ending as a series about aliens and shifting dimensions.

reminder Neiji was right about destiny and shit.

The confrontation between Sasuke and Itachi (after 10+ years of buildup) was a major letdown. Then Pein killed the entire cast and then brought them all back to life.

Part 1 was generally good, yeah there was little development for anyone but Naruto, but fights were fine and story ended great by having MC essentially lose

Part 2 started getting wonky when Orochimaru was immediately made an unimportant character from the start and having akatsuki take over. Part 1 had it set up that Orochimaru was the obstacle Naruto needed to face to get to Sasuke and Itatchi was the obstacle Sasuke needed to face to get over himself.

But then we got seader of the akatsuki, Pein, who was actually an underling to True leader Nagato, who didn't matter because the one pulling the string was obito, but psyche it's not Obito it's madara, and you must be fucking kidding me some moon goddess was the real big bad this whole time?

part 2 would have been better if Orochimaru wasn't put out of commission so early and Akatsuki was made as the only big bad to be the force that brought team 7 together again. Also felt like a ball was dropped when it came to the whole 9 demons backstory/importance

>Also felt like a ball was dropped when it came to the whole 9 demons backstory/importance
I liked the kyuubi better when it was just an unexplained wild monster, like a force of nature

after pain is when everything went irredimibable. They already had the child of prophecy BS going on before the konoha invasion arc which is what wrecked all.

Naruto was always good,ship prudent was a mixed bag with some pretty great moments and best boy madara,post-shippuden is ok too

When did it start?

75 years ago

I know that silly, I was mostly just meant when did it start being good. I was raising a little bantz you see.

Make me.

When NaruHina and SasuSaku won.

Fuck that shit!

After Zabuza

...

When we found out what Pein really was and when Sauske's character started to lack focus after defeat Oro and Itachi dying.

...

...

This

Somewhere in part 2. You can tell that at some point, Kishi completely ran out of ideas and started pulling shit out of his ass every week. Major plot points like the Pein arc were obviously pre-planned, but a lot of what lead up to it created shitloads of plot holes.

Kishi's weekly ass-pulls came back to bite him in the ass, when he accidentally made every fucking ninja clan friends. Oops, I guess there aren't any villains left anymore. I know, let's just use Edo-Tensei a billion times and fight zombies until the end of the series.

When you're coming up with last-second plots for slave assistants to draw up every week, you miss the big picture. Somewhere along the line, that plucky little loser who never stopped trying, became the child of prophecy. And Sasuke literally has the eyes of a god, and he's the chosen one too.

Whats implied here? That they cant have a kid?

That or miscarriage, I know it is RTN characters.

(1/2)

There are many problems with Naruto, some big and some small, all contributing to making it, in the end, not a great manga/anime.

I'll give two examples. TLDR: Inconsistent themes and too many characters.

From a literary viewpoint, I think that one of my biggest critiques of Naruto is how themes between the first part and the second. A strong theme in the first part was "hard work matters, and is more important than talent". However, in the second part we learned that Naruto was really the son of a previous hokage and a powerful ninja from a now extinct clan. Then it got increasingly focused on the past, Madara etc. This very much contradicted the idea that there is a continuos progress and that each generation surpasses the next one. It was apparent that the first hokage generation was actually far better than the current one.
I was sorry to see this, since I think the "hard work" theme was actually more unique and interesting.

So Shippudden ends next week.

(2/2)


Another problem is the multitude of characters, leading to any one character not getting enough narrative space. This really started in the chuunin exam arc when several new teams appeared, all with interesting characters with unique fighting style. I, and surely many ithers, started to want to see more of these fun characters, and Kishimoto often tried to oblige, but in the end he couldn't do this enough. There just isn't enough narrative space, it dilutes the story and the action for the main characters.

It's funny, but the story as a whole might actually have been better if most of the people in the other teams were more bland. Then they could be easily overlooked and the time now spent on Shikamaru, Hinata etc. could be used on the plot or the main characters. For the chuunin exams, maybe keep Team Guy (but develop Tenten) and the Sand team, but make all the others more forgettable.

At the same time this clashes with the objective of creating a rich world, where the main characters are not at the center of the world from the start. But a better writer could have done this.

He learn taijutsu obviously. Part 1 Naruto does not have any kind of taijutsu skills.

Can we at least agreed that Naruto was one of the best shounen jump manga/anime?

beginning
>hurr durr look at me I'm a problematic social outcast with a demon's power
faggot

At the start, yeah.

At the middle, probably...?

At the end, GODDAMN IT KISHI!

>Part 1: Naruto being an untalented orphan with a tragic background (+a demon inside him)
>Part 2: Naruto being son of 4th hokage. Uzumakis were broken.

Rock Lee was best boy. And will always be

Having children outskilling adults was the problem. They obviously had to rise the power gap every chapter to make some sense.
Then broken powers completely replaced combat cunning and melee.

>mfw the whole show could have been like this
youtube.com/watch?v=7f2GfPIoHEc

End of part1
Part 2 is when Kishi don't know which direction he should take or because the direction from part 1 is too dark that editor fuck shit up

The hidden village of the mist should've been developed properly as a direct antagonist to konoha. The zabuza arc hinted at how bloody their version of Genin exams were, and the existence of 7 swordsmen. Their jutsu were also water based compared to konoha's fire.

So much wasted potential. I hate how the sharingan got that mangekyo bullshit later on, because we stopped seeing it used for copying. Would've been cool to see Sasuke steal a few techs and use them differently later on. I mean, it's the copy wheel eye, not the magical blackfire and teleporting God eye.

Inter-village relations never got any deeper than "we're at peace until we're at war". The politics of the countries each village belongs to were never delved into, either. Which is not a problem, the feudal lords were always portrayed as being useless old men who only cared for perpetuating their own power. It was always shinobi changing the world.