Bullshit

Bullshit.

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I don't watch Dragonball Super, but I imagine those are shit subs. He probably actually said he doesn't feel like a hero/savior.

>I've never been aware of saving it

>guys we have to stop King Piccolo
>guys we have to stop Raditz
>guys we have to stop Vegeta and Nappa
>guys we have to stop Freiza
>guys we have to stop the Androids
>guys we have to stop Cell

What a load of shit.

Ehh i think it was something like what said but yea Goku, at least from the perspective that Toriyama wanted to give us was never meant to be heroic by any means, just kind-hearted, naive, retard with some other anime archetypes mixed in.

Nah super goku is a moron and a psychopath.

Proof? I know a lot of people cite an interview but I call bullshit

Why is Goku so poorly written in Super?

Or is it just that the Japanese Goku is a blithering idiot psychopath fighting autist, and the English version is like a fabled heroic warrior.

>Revenge for krillin

>Save my kid

>Save my friends

>save my friends/revenge krillin

>Literally didn't do the easy thing and destroy the androids before they activated because he gets wanted a fight

>we could gang up on cell and probably beat him as father and son but nah,tournaments are fun

It's not like it's anything new. Remember how he wanted Vegeta to survive, tried to spare Freeza, waited for the Androids to activate, and gave a Senzu Bean to Cell.

>tfw you used to like Goku

Toriyama has Alzheimers-tier memory and only remembers Goku as a flanderized version of Kid Goku(clueless kid who only wants to fight strong people). He remembers nothing of Goku's development over the course of the series.

Toei doesn't want another GT disaster so they take his word as law.

The English version of Goku is definitely more heroic but the Japanese version still has his moments of heroism that make the "Goku was never a hero!" fags wrong.

Like when he confronted Frieza and said he was going to defeat him for the sake of all the nameks and saiyans he had killed. No "wow you look strong let's fight!" bullshit there. Or after that army attacked Cell and he wiped them out and Goku went out of his way to look for a way to make the dragon balls work again so they could wish all of Cell's victims back. Goku has definitely had his moments where he's just plain heroic. I think Toriyama just didn't like the dub version and completely shit on his character and regressed him to his most basic "likes to eat, likes to fight" qualities.

The latter. All the heroic stuff he ever said was dub only.

>GT disaster

But GT was good. Much better than Super could ever be.

Another case of Nips being fucking terrible writers.

>I think Toriyama just didn't like the dub version
What makes you think Toriyama knows anything about the dub version?

Fuck off Pedro, how is it not obvious that your kind is not welcome here?

Didn't Toriyama say in an interview that Goku is motivated selfishly?

Super really overdid the whole "goku just wants to fight people" meme.
Toriyama said that he was supposed to be kinda saiyan in his wanting to just fight strong people etc. but super just took that concept and turned him into a huge cunt, at least that's what I believe.

Not a pedro. I just have good taste. The first half of GT captured the thematic essences of the original series whilst the latter, Z.
It was the perfect sendoff to the series, and despite all of its failure, will eventually be seen as much better than Super. Because Super is some of the worst anime I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing in my life.

My impression with Cell Games was that Goku was okay having a little fun with Cell because he knew Gohan was capable of overkilling him.

Even if it's his base nature to be a sleep/eat/fight ape man, Goku hasn't been that since Pilaf. At least since Bora died in Red Ribbon and Goku went in to RR HQ wanting to destroy everyone.

>tried to spare Freeza
It's completely different than the rest. He didn't spare (or actually save) Frieza t fight him again. It was an act of mercy.

>The first half of GT captured the thematic essences of the original series

It was a shitty attempt at trying to be the original series. It had none of Toriyama's surreal humor, didn't have his style of writing characters, and had a dull plot.

GT was great you fucking braindead moron.

Look I hate super as much as the next guy, and i think GT was better than super in general.
but holy shit, it really wasn't good user.

It certainly wasn't 'good', but it wasn't the steaming pile of shit that Super is.

Toriyama said he didn't like how goku was portrayed as heroic in the anime.

If GT was better why did they have to cancel it and rush early the final sagas?

>vegeta to survive
yeah it was an act of mercy
>spared frieza
again, out of mercy
>waited for the androids to activate
well what the hell else could he have done? 19 and 20 he didn't know the whereabouts of, and his heart was BTFO'd while they were dealing with 17 and 18
>gave a Senzu Bean to Cell
admittedly this was completely fucking retarded, but I suppose it was more than anything him placing his confidence in his son
it was still retarded though

>>haha gohan can handle it,let me give cell a senzu bean to make it more challenging

>>Doesn't handle it,Cell juniors wrecking everyone,worldbalmost over if the autistic robot hadn't by chance knocked some sense into gohan

I like the cell saga but gokus character corrosion was well into it,it started with him letting piccolo walk away so he can fight him later after the budokai and just got progressively worse up to Buu,Super goku takes that rot but unlike Z doesn't put goku I'm hospital/dead/comatose so its far more noticable ,plus super writers seem to forget that goku had greater motivation prior to the vegeta fight besides wanting to fight strong guys/vengeance fighting

GT killed dragon ball for so many years, its funny that some real or fake pedros want to believe its somehow better in any way than super.

>people actually like Super

It basically has nothing at all to do with Dragonball. It's just a shitty anime with the Dragonball skin.

>phoneposting
>worthless opinion
sasuga

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The difference between OG and Z was much bigger

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>Mercy

Dubtards are deluded

>GT killed Dragon Ball
More like Toriyama sat on his ass for decades and now he needs more money for a brain transplant.
Good job on getting on the Dragon Ball train in the past decade like the underage fag you are.

I'll claim bullshit on a lot but Goku is indeed a meathead who likes fighting and that's about it.

>a character is tweaked to make him more sympathetic and likeable
>people think that it was a bad change

Nothing new here, Goku has always been an egoistical faggot that only cared about good fights or saving friends, it's more like you guys thought he was heroic because of shitty dubs.

>shitty dubs
Superior dubs. When a work is translated, it should conform to the expected standards of the culture that it is being translated to. The West values heroism over retarded fighting autism.

He has a point though. The "I've never been aware of saving the world" line is complete bullshit

No, you idiot. Goku fuck-up was thinking that Gohan was a battle junkie muh saiyan pride. That's why he gave Cell the senzu. Because he thought that Gohan would want to fight him at full power for muh battle junkie thrills. That's why he's so shocked when Piccolo tells him that Gohan is not a fighter like him and realized his mistake in not telling Gohan about his latent power as well.

>thinking completely rewriting the main fucking character is somehow alright
Holy shit, how retarded are you dubtards?

It is given the fact that so many people assume those tweaks were apart of his character. The dub made goku into a Japanese siperman when that wasn't what he was intended to be. Now everyone has this misconception of who goku is

>When a work is translated, it should conform to the expected standards of the culture that it is being translated to.
Is this what Amerfats think? That media should be censored to fit their small-minded cultural beliefs?
Do you get triggered when a movie doesn't have enough explosions?

The whole point of him asking not to be wished back after Cell was that he realised that he draw threats to the Earth

>I am a proud warrior, dedicated to serving my home planet and my friends -- I am the Saiyan warrior Son Goku, and I'm furious at you, FREIIIIZZAAAAA!!!

>WAKU WAKU XD

I'm not even American. Dragonball was expected to be a cultural phenomenon and exceed in the Western world - it only makes sense for certain attributes to be tweaked and for changes to take place so that it can 'fit in'.

My bad, you're actually retarded.

>cartoons and film series come to China and Japan
>they literally ask for American studios to make alterations and considerable changes so that it fits in with the Asian audiences

>The West does the same thing
>"lol retarded"

I preferred the dub goku with a sense of doing something for the good of people around him, compared to "muh fighting" he's a superior MC.
Besides we already have fighting autist vegeta, goku as well is just too much.
I don't really mind if the story asks for it, but I find it pretty hard to like DBS given that the main character is a huge prick.
"Jelly doughnuts"
The fact that the dub sould actually change the narrative to fit that portrayal shows that he was nowhere near as extreme as super's Goku, I just don't see how they're possibly going to make it look like goku condemned 7 universes to destruction out of heroism.

Americans have a completely different and "adapted" version of Goku and Krillin.

Goku is never supposed to be an hardcore serious badass except for brief moments like when he goes to Namek, the rest of the time he's just a kind hearted dork/bumpkin doing stuff because he likes to fight, the american dub gave him a deep voice and a strong heroic character attitude he doesn't have in the original.

Krilin is apologetic and kind of a comedic relief character, while in japan he was the rival as a kid, the best friend during the teen phase and then became kind of Gohan's guardian angel from Namek onwards along with Piccolo.

I feel like Americans made Goku way more serious and Krillin a lot more stupid.

>he's a superior MC
Superior or not, the character you knew about through the dub is not Goku, it's a creation of the dub to fit the stereotype of "heroes" you know about, nothing else.

Krillin's English voice sounds way less retarded than his Japanese voice

>this character is made up, he's not the actual made up character that was made up in the first place
so what you're saying is the dub is pretty much like a doujin? great, it's better than the source material and i'm ok with that.

Both are equally retarded though.

there's only so much you can change with voices alone.
if you watch DB or DBZ without any audio whatsoever, you get a similar feeling to the dub portrayal, and all of the stuff you're watching is source material.

You're retarded

I noticed this when watching Super.
I turned the audio off and imagine Goku, etc, speaking in their English voices and suddenly the show felt more sincere.

>>Mercy
Reread the manga

>The first half of GT captured the thematic essences of the original series whilst the latter
They sure captured it, now only to ffind out were they kept it hidden so we can give some to Super.

>the english dub modified many of the characters' personality
>had terrible voice acting
>switched the OST with some technoshit
>censored a lot
>the show feels more sincere
Are you really this retarded.

I bet you're one of those people who complain about 4Kids, and the fact that One Piece's 4kids opening was the best out of all of them.

This only confirms that the English version was the best version.

Never said gokus incapable of mercy,just that his reason to spare Vegeta was because he wanted to fight him again,unlike Frieza or raditz for example whom he wanted to redeem or at least let them go as long as they never bothered him again

>dubfags in full denial because they discovered goku is not the pure hearted hero they thought
Heh.

I bet you say Genki Dama instead of Spirit Bomb, weeaboo.

Not that guy, but I actually do.

I never used Spirit Bomb because I'm not an amerifat to begin with.

Goku is a generic Superman in the dub. He's goddamn boring. The DBZ Kai dub Goku is far better. You'd realise that if you didn't have shit taste

Krillin was always the most witty fighter in Dragonball.

He had always a battleplan and some fallback ideas when fighting stronger guys like Goku, Piccolo, Nappa, Vegeta, Frezza.

Basically the punching over it's own weight guy.

>Muh pedro
This is the only response you ever get from these faggots

This is bait

How so?

>no mention of super being good
>people actually like super
>brain aneurysm

wake the fuck up, they are both trash but GT is just dbz again but worse and more goku, at least super is extending the universe a little even if most of it is diarrhea. Pedros saying they like GT more than super is like saying I prefer my shit to be green instead of orange.

Goku still is pure hearted though.

Which is honestly strange in some circumstances like when he lets his bloodlust get the better of him back in DB, and runs off after Tambourine to avenge Krillin's death. He's out for blood and quickly murders the poor sap on their second fight, but it's not like this causes him to lose his Kinto Un or anything.

Goku certainly got a free pass back then because he was a kid and not just because it was a nasty villain; nowadays he definitely wouldn't have that much leeway to just down a villain like that.

>Goku still is pure hearted though
Of course he is, I didn't mean that in that way, he is just very naive and completely unaware of his surroundings, which makes him pure hearted, in a sense.

At least this explains why he keeps making friends with mass murderers.

Wasn't being "pure hearted" the whole premise behind being able to ride the flying nimbus?

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Why everyone forget the next scene? When Goku says he likes to fight strong guys but he can't stand seeing other people and animals suffering and he guess it might be for his grandpa. Goku saying he never wanted to be a hero sounds more like modesty

It seems hard for people to consider that Goku can both want to fight strong guys AND save people along the way.

this is why Gohan should've taken over as MC after Cell Saga, Toriyama just made him shit on purpose in the Buu Saga because gooks like Goku more.

>17 looks at him in disbelief
I can't believe people defend this

Bulma wanted to wish to find the location of geros lab. And vegeta and goku chimped out

>It seems hard for people to consider that Goku can both want to fight strong guys AND save people along the way.
This.

The English dub did "exaggerate" the heroic part of Goku, but it is still in the original Japanese version of DBZ as well.

They're really trying to push the whole "GOKU IS A FUCKING MORON WHO DOESN'T REALIZE HIS LUST FOR FIGHTING IS GETTING PEOPLE KILLED"

Toriyama hates how goku was understood by fans, so he retconed his character.

>gave a Senzu Bean to Cell.
I remember that momebt wgen I was around 11 and even then I said it was retarted beyond imagination.

>people unironically saying Goku isn't a hero and only cares about fighting

This meme fucking died when he let Gohan fight Cell, it's clear he was prioritizing the safety of the Earth over his fighting lust right there and then

Sure, giving cell a senzu bean was for the safety of earth as well, right?

Technically yes, because he thought it would awaken Gohan and make him the strongest fighter in the universe

Yeah dumbass, Cell needed to be at full power for Gohan to awaken his strength

Only dubfags think Goku is a hero.

kanzenshuu.com/translations/wired-japan-1997-akira-toriyama-interview/

Wired: There’s actually “poison” inside?

Toriyama: Right. There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

Wired: Perhaps that’s because it’s animation aimed at children, after all?

Toriyama: Well, that might be some of it, too.

Well I guess that ends it.

>He remembers nothing of Goku's development over the course of the series
No, he just doesn't remember the terrible Americanized Superman-lite version that only retards like you still talk about.

>Toriyama: Right. There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others