About to start Ar Tonelico 3

About to start Ar Tonelico 3.

What am I in for?

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Worst Ar Tonelico game so far. Make sure you play Ar noSurge after to get rid of bad taste.

You're gonna have a bad time.

disappointment

You can still back down from playing that crap

Are Ar Tonelico games even worth playing? I loved Ar Nosurge but only because how it handles the fact that you as a player exist. Gameplay, story and all that shit was very poor. At least the OST was great too.

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Bumpan

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First two games are definitely worth playing. Ar Tonelico 2 has fantranslation project going and you can get beta version of it, which is already better than official version was. Next beta will even add hard mode into the game apparently.

Not just worst Ar Tonelico, worst Gust game by far. You're much better off not ever playing it. Just pretend it doesn't exist.
And don't be mistaken, the shitty NISA localization is just the icing on the cake, the game is utter shit even in moonrunes.

Oversight is also what determines the camera angle when fighting with Delta/Earthes, you see the situation from above and can make optimal choices due to having all the information present and being able to see every enemy while perhaps if it was from Delta's PoV he might not be able to see an enemy behind another one.

Yeah, that among other things were really clever in my opinion.

But girls don't poop

>didnt start from beginning of series or didnt even bother reading ciel nosurge first
>complains story was very poor

I've been reading Ciel right now and it's the same shit. I still enjoy it and I really should have read it first. I understand what happens, I understand what kind of themes the story is trying to convey. Problem isn't that I don't understand what's going on. The problem is that the story is just mostly bad writing and no amount of previous knowledge of the series can save it.

A nice finale for the trilogy if you played through the first two games. Otherwise, don't bother.

And if you clear it with any of the true endings, make sure to read the translation for its epilogue light novels if you want to know the real ending to the series.

Too bad. Maybe the series isn't for you then?

Said by someone who obviously never tried out shitty games that had nonsensical and inconsistent story, gamebreaking bugs all over or a gameplay that didn't work according to the buttons the player actually pressed. What's more, Gust has even worse games on its history like Karyouju or Meru Purana.

If you only play Ar Nosurge, yeah it would appear that way. It takes a very heavy handed approach when it comes to past events, often surmising them in one or two lines only. That lexicon entry about "oversight" that he posted is a good example.
I agree with you but the game could have handled all that stuff a bit better on a non-import save file game. I feel very sorry for anyone who played it without playing Ciel Nosurge first.

Yeah, yeah. If the writing if so bad, I don't see how you could even understand anything that happened in both games.

But like I said, I loved the game. The series? I'm not sure. I might give Ar Tonelico 1 a chance if I can find physical copy of it. Which isn't going to be easy where I live.

The story is self contained to a degree. Events happen, characters develope and the theme of human relationship and understanding each other is conveyed. It's not that hard to understand. Of course I didn't have the knowledge of the events of Ciel but the game still gave me hints and recaps here and there. They were enough to understand that certain things happened in the past. But the theme got conveyed just fine without knowledge of the past games.

Fine, let me call it worst Gust game in recent history, then.
Mostly because of my personal expectations and how much of a letdown the game was in every way.

You don't have any self insert 4th wall breaking stuff in other games like AnS and Ciel have.

In other words, it's your own fault you found it to be the "worst" game they made. You never heard that inflated expectations only lead to disappointment?

Even reading summary and watching lets play from youtube, which is in Chapter 9 currently, would be great way to start before going to Ar Nosurge.

Not completely, as Ar nosurge doesn't really go into the details of why Ra Ciela was destroyed, exactly what was that Nero did that ruined the migration plan, Kanon's history and even important reveals like Nay's true identity were left to the side or revealed in a way that doesn't hold a candle to the way it was done in Ciel nosurge.

There are also some things that can't be seen in unlinked file either, like why Undu is alive or how Kanon was brought back from the dead.

And how are those important to the theme of the convey and the message it's trying to convey? They aren't. In that regard, the story is self-contained.

They are important because they show how everyone got to their current situation, and most of them were caused by misunderstandings, lack of communication and hunger for power. In that regard, they are extremely important to the themes the story conveys.

But you don't need them. The theme is clear as day even without them.

That said, I think reading Ciel is recommended now that I've been reading it myself.

But even then, the writing isn't really good and that was my point from the start.

>And how are those important to the theme of the convey and the message it's trying to convey? They aren't.

I really do hope you had played EXA_PICO games from the beginning.

Yet I don't see why you're lambasting so much the writing and story.

Quality writing right here.

I like what the story is trying to say but HOW it does it is just cringe worthy most of the time.

Not that user, but sorry, it really does seem that Ar Tonelico isn't for you, if even that dialogue triggers you so much.

I guess so. Just look at this shit. I liked what every Genometrics level or whatever tried to say about the characters but most of the time the way it did it was fucking awful.

Yeah. If a little innuendo or some bits of inconsequential dialogue bring down the writing so much for him, he's sure to not like Ar tonelico.

That's been part of the series from its first installment. Plus, it'd be ridiculous to not see that inside someone's mind, as everybody has that sort of thoughts and fantasies swirling inside their heads.

Praise Nay's flat chest and buttcrack.

They're pretty bad, unless you're the kind of weeb that enjoys haremshit tropes

If you like that sort of thing, good for you. I don't and that will be the part that I don't enjoy about the game/story. Good thing there at least was something beneath the surface for the story.

Yay!

>loving the game only because it allows you to self insert there

Well, tell that to the makers of the game. As what I said about that being part of the thoughts everyone has what the main guy behind the series said on the subject,even going as far as citing Freud and Jung's psychology theories. Plus, it's not like you can refute it considering the screenshots you've been posting are all from the Genometrics, aka, inside the characters' minds.

Persona games are for self-inserts. Ar Nosurge aknowledges that you as a player exist and make you a canon part of the story. Not many games do this and I found that interesting.

Don't mind me, just posting the best girl

I wonder if the team that worked on Ar worked for that yurilite game that was delightfully plain compared to Ar

>Well, tell that to the makers of the game.
I have no right to say what should be in a game and what should not.

>As what I said about that being part of the thoughts everyone has what the main guy behind the series said on the subject,even going as far as citing Freud and Jung's psychology theories. Plus, it's not like you can refute it considering the screenshots you've been posting are all from the Genometrics, aka, inside the characters' minds.
I can understand the reasoning and logic behind it but I don't have to like it.

A horrible game with little redeeming features

why in gods name would you play something you dont even like

Video games, even other mediums, are always a package. You can like some parts of it and dislike some other parts.

So much dissing the story and writing, and zero mentions when it comes to the music, even though these games also uses it as a vehicle for storytelling and character development.

And that's without going into how detailed the world setting is.

I feel bad for anyone who has not played the series from the beginning.

It's an excellent finale to the trilogy and does a great job at wrapping up the plot. If you liked the 2 previous games and want to see how it ends, definitely play it.

that being said, the combat sucks. Characters and music are still awesome, but the battle system blows chunks.

See I said that the OST is great. I fucking love it.

>setting
Eh, it's interesting but I don't think the story used it to it's fullest potential.

All the more reason why you should have played these games from the beginning. Setting and world feels lot more interesting, if you had prior knowledge of previous games.

Not blaming you though. Lot of people jumped straight into AnS and still loved it, without prior knowledge of EXA_PICO

Though I wonder how many people actually read this: artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/ARM_Backup/Surge_Concerto/Genomirai_Wiki

After they finished with the Surge Concerto games.

I doubt many did. Neither did I, eventhough I have finished all games, Ciel included. You gave me something to read now though. I need to read those recently translated Ar Tonelico novels too.

She's a big girl

You misunderstand, my expectations weren't inflated. I've heard about it being shit since long ago. I was let down anyway.
Also please stop posting like me calling AT3 shit is triggering you or something.
Pretty much, going in blind is just wasting the experience.

People who call AT3 shit haven't actually played any truly bad games.

I've beaten almost every game I've ever played. The only game I can currently think of that I made it through less of before having to call it quits was Xenogears. In fact, I've actually gotten around 40 hours into AT3 because every time I play 1 and 2 (often) I want to try to play 3 for the story. ONE time I managed to make it to the first appearance of Ar Ru before just wanting to kill myself rather than play for another second, most times that occurred at the goddamn Harvestasha part. The storyline, the gameplay, everything about the third game is an abortion, I would rather the series hadn't gotten an ending and was discontinued. We get it, a society run by women would be shit, you don't have to constantly remind us Japan.

So just because there's even worse games out there I can't call AT3 bad? You should get that checked, user.
Of course there's way worse games than AT3 but that doesn't excuse the shitshow that that game was and OP at least deserves to know what he's getting himself into coming from the other two games.

Yeah, an abortion that reveals that Mir finally started her rebellion because an Ayatane (the basis for her virus and Mind Guardian) sent by Sol Cluster to rescue her from the humans she fell in love with was killed by the Sol Ciel security forces, that Harvestasha XP was who gave Mir the idea of using EXEC_LINCA/. to release herself from the Chronicle Key seal and also told her about the Heart of the Land's existence, and that the Second Tower was redesigned and made to become the Third Tower's replacement because the AHPP aborted the Third Tower project by cutting out all the funding to it to give the functions it and Tyria were supposed to have to Frelia.

And Clusternia isn't run by the Reyvateils as much as it's run by Harvestasha Vista after she was reprogrammed by the Ayatane to become a genocidal dictator.

Just the fact that you didn't bother finishing it shows you missed out on all the important plot reveals and connections to the previous games story, character and setting-wise, which by themselves make AT3's story better than AT1's, not to mention leaving AT3 at the points the bad and normal endings take place renders everything you did in AT1 and AT2 meaningless.

And this user pretty much sums up my feelings as well. Honorable mention goes to the soundtrack, which is alright by Gust standards but way shorter than in the first two games and cutting corners whenever possible (like battle OST).

Too bad all of that is completely overshadowed by MUH DYSTOPIAN WOMYN SOCIETY and fucking terrible combat. A game that can't at least manage to deliver you to the plot points without you wanting to kill yourself because of how shitty it is is not a good game no matter what you say about "b-but the ending is amazing!", if you have a book series that is 8-9/10 for the first two books then 1/10 until the last chapter of the third book, do you really think fans of the first two books are going to be happy?

As the gameplay is no more than a real-time version of the AT1 battle system at its core with all that implies, and that in story it beats out AT1, calling it shit is pretty out of place.

Plus, as if the game was inconsistent in its world, story or characterization, all its gameplay mechanics were buggy or broken, or it had gamebreaking glitches that made the game unplayable or impossible to complete.

All things considered, the "consensus" on it being shit seems to be no more than a disproportionate kneejerk reaction to the Purges, even though they can be disabled to not see the cutscenes in battle and that leaving them out, the amount of innuendo and fanservice is not much higher than those of the previous games.

If you can call "cutting corners" to the fact the game uses a dynamic music generation system that depends on the battle conditions and equipped Hyumas, and that was in fact far harder to program and implement than the battle BGMs used in all the other games.

In fact, Tsuchiya said himself that Replekia in AT2 was a limited application of that same system that was near impossible to implement on the PS2 hardware, and the music generation system in AT3 even got Gust a nomination to the 2010 CEDEC awards for sound design and programming.

MY SONG GIVES YOU ENDLESS COURAGE
MY SONG GIVES YOU ENDLESS COURAGE
MY SONG GIVES YOU ENDLESS COURAGE

A-R T-O-N-E-L-I-C-O

>he thinks the combat of AT3 is acceptable in any way shape or form
>he is seriously trying to compare THE COMBAT OF ALL FUCKING THINGS to the first game
I don't even care that you said the story is better, that much it's obvious that you are wrong, but the combat? What the fuck man, you need to get checked out, you must have done some terrible drugs when you were younger for your mind to be that destroyed.

As if. The plot also overshadows the fact that something is wrong with both Saki and Finnel that isn't their multiple persona problem, the hidden agenda the Archia guys have, and also why Jack and Krusche are cooperating with them, as well as why Clustania and Archia are so interested in the Heart of the Land.

Aren't the comparisons obvious?

Three-man party with only a Reyvateil.
Vanguards get special skills that consume their HP when used.
Super attacks are conditioned to the Reyvateils in some form (countering stored attacks in the first game, having the Reyvateil in her final Purge level in the third)
Harmonics is the main form to power up the Reyvateils (Harmonics Gauge in AT1, Purges in AT3)

Even the synthesis system is identical excepting for having AT3 leave out the Grathnode crystals.


And how I'm wrong with the story in AT3 being better than AT1's? AT1 is generic fantasy fare excepting for the ending with having Lyner make Mir come out from her hatred shell instead of killing her, while AT3 takes a more similar approach to AT2 with having two factions fight over which one is in the right for saving the planet but both going horribly wrong with their methods and both having terrible ulterior motives behind, but without reaching the level of execution or introspection AT2 did.

>the gameplay is no more than a real-time version of the AT1 battle system at its core with all that implies
I can't possibly see how you'd come to such a conclusion. It's like saying Devil May Cry is just a real time version of SMT, they're nothing alike not least of all due to the real time mechanics.
>in story it beats out AT1
Can't talk about story since I never managed to finish that crap game but in terms of atmosphere AT1 got it beat by a long shot. But, eh, opinions.
>gamebreaking glitches
Neither of those, just terrible game design, backtracking, brain dead combat, etc.
>Purges, innuendo
I don't mind those, I expect lewd in my Japanese games, not like AT1/2 were tame in that regard either. What I do mind is how many characters they just shoved in there without properly developing any of them.
So? Just because some shit ass movie gets an Oscar does not make it good. I like the idea they had behind the dynamic music generation but the implementation was bad.

Selective blindness is such a terrible sickness.

Read the post right before yours where the similarities between both battle systems were outlined. Making it real-time doesn't change the fact they have so many common elements that they could be considered similar.

>Neither of those, just terrible game design, backtracking, brain dead combat, etc.

You can blame AT1 and AT2 too for the backtracking then, especially AT2 due to how small Metafalss is. As for the terrible design, leave out the combat and you've got the same template that AT1 and AT2 use, especially AT1 due to having sections where jumping is required. Would that mean the other two games were terribly designed too?

How was the implementation bad? The whole idea was letting players control the music somewhat by changing the equipped Hyumas the Reyvateil has, and also having the music change depending on if the player was fighting well, if their characters were in critical health or if the Purge level was increased, and none of that was working badly.

As a plus, the developers themselves said this was the closest approach they could make to how fighting with a Reyvateil is in-universe due to their song magic always changing according to their feelings instead of being set songs.

There is no bait on your hook, there isn't even a point in talking to you if you think that any of those things are equivalent. I can't even make an argument against it because in order to do so it would force me to at least try and legitimize your arguments, which is impossible. The only thing that is the same is the synthesis system and really who gives a flying fuck about that, we were talking about combat and story. The easiest way to put it to you is this; the combat in 1 and 2 are different but both manage to be fun in their own way, 3 is not similar in any way to 1 and 2 and is not fun at all to play. You can say they are the same all day long but when one of them is simply not fun then that means even if you claim the formula is the same it can't be because it is missing fun.

Go to the top of the executive district
Go to the bottom of the executive district
Go to the unremarkable door halfway up
No not that one, the other one
Go to the top of the executive district.

They ran out of plot after about 20 hours of gameplay and did some incredibly painful padding.

So you won't even bother coming with a decent counterargument and are instead responding with a fallacy of the level "it isn't fun, so it doesn't make it similar even if they share so many similarities". Pathetic. In that case, everything you say is meaningless.

I liked all the games in the series, but absolutely loved AT2 and Ciel/AnS.

My only problems with the series were with AT3 though, but that was just with combat, graphics and too many sexual jokes being thrown at me all the time. It was nice ending to the trilogy nevertheless and I liked the story and characters there.

I don't think there are games with better soundtracks as this series has.

Padding that can be greatly reduced by you just running away from the battles or using the enemy repel item. And there are also maps now to alleviate the tedium of going through that stupid maze.

>Read the post right before yours
That's a rather superficial and abstracted comparison, in terms of how the mechanics actually play out the systems are nothing alike.
>You can blame AT1 and AT2 too for the backtracking then
Thanks to both game's design it was tolerable, you moved through the levels relatively quickly and there were items that disabled enemy encounters, unlike in AT3.
>How was the implementation bad?
The entire battle system sucks, you barely have any control over anything apart from how your character is positioned. The companion AI is fucking shit and will run straight to their death on hard difficulty. There's many, many things wrong with the battle system, not like me reciting them is going to convince you.
>he developers themselves said this was the closest approach they could make to how fighting with a Reyvateil is in-universe due to their song magic always changing according to their feelings instead of being set songs
Then the developers themselves proceeded to remove the mechanic from the other ExaPico games and never use it again.

AT3 is one of the worst localizations of that era, by the way. If you think Neptunia games are bad, they aren't if you compare them to the butchering that occurred with the script of AT3.

Wait... they patched maps in?

I think he meant maps online. It only makes it marginally better since you still have to do the shit, though, the only difference is you will only be wandering that faggy tower for about 2 hours instead of 3-4.

...

>That's a rather superficial and abstracted comparison, in terms of how the mechanics actually play out the systems are nothing alike.

That's what you say, but the similarities are there and you hating the battle system aren't going to make them go away.

>Thanks to both game's design it was tolerable, you moved through the levels relatively quickly and there were items that disabled enemy encounters, unlike in AT3.

AT2 actually had a slower map movement, and AT3 also featured encounter reduction items.

>The entire battle system sucks, you barely have any control over anything apart from how your character is positioned.

The implementation for the dynamic music system, not for the battle system. Try to read better.

>Then the developers themselves proceeded to remove the mechanic from the other ExaPico games and never use it again.

Only Ar nosurge came out after AT3. Just one game isn't a proper sample size to say they aren't going to ever use it again.

He's talking about the maps available on the wiki, which were all scanned from the official JP guidebook.

Running away from the battles, it only takes from five to ten minutes to go through the Clustania Executive District each time the game requires so. And the game even transports the party to where they need to be at a couple of times.

When are we getting news about next EXA_PICO game? Its just Atelier that and Atelier this from Gust or some new IP like Land of No Night. Atelier getting new game or new Plus version. When are we getting Plus versions of AT1 and 2?

Tsuchiya said news would be coming later this year back in January, though he'd also be "placing his life on the line".

About Plus versions for AT1 and AT2, we're all wondering that same thing, especially with Bandai-Namco being a bother with copyrights and stuff.

That said, AT3 is the game that could benefit the most from a Plus version, especially if it was done similarly to how it was done with Atelier Rorona.

A shit game

I really hope thats true what Tsuchiya said. I really want to hear about new game, even if it means that I have to wait for it few years.

Ar Tonelico 2 fan translation? It was already localized. What for?

Well, it's about time for them to announce something. Generally it's two years from a game to the release of another (the latest being Ciel nosurge: April 2012, Ar nosurge: March 2014), and we're about the time they should be announcing one.

Fixing the horrendous script and fixing the bugs NISA introduced (Phase 2 map display broken, DP cost events showing Crash... even after being completed successfully in the Dives, the removal of the Boss Key feature), as well as some Gust themselves had left in. They're also adding a hard mode.