Warhammer: Total War

Where did it all go so wrong?

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whats the verdict

its almost may 31st i need to decide whether this shit is good to buy or not

I can't really give a neutral opinion. I've been waiting game like this since Horned Rat and Dark Omen.

For what it's worth, I like this more than I like "normal" TW games.

It's more streamlined: Taxation on/off, no sanitation, no min/max food prod, etc. I find those to be improvements, while as somebody else might feel it as "consolation" or whatever.

Good, just need more races to play with and balance fix

>I find those to be improvements

Flying units are op. Bats and varguls buttwreck every missile unit.

>instead of war, this guy wants literally to micromanage shit and toilets.

Strange to think Dark Omen is still the best Warhammer game ever made.

SKAVEN FUCKIN WHEN?

Good if you love Warhammer, shit if you don't because it's not a very good Total War game.

Fuck the fucking Dwarves. Turn 170 as Orks and still nowhere near close to winning. Apparently the Empire is butt raping Chaos so those manlet fuck don't even have more pressing matters to attend to than trying to steal my shit.

Your retarded argument would make sense if the battles weren't just as streamlined and casual as the campaign map. I agree that total war should be all about the battles and that the campaign only exists to facilitate those and give them more meaning, but you still need something there.

The city management was fucking perfect in Rome 1 and Med 2. Each city had a little amount of depth, enough to keep you interested but not enough to take away from the point of the game. I'm nto a fan of the direction CA have gone since Empire trying to turn the campaign into a fucking civ game but even that's better than what is essentially nothing.

To be fair, Total War's peacetime management has always been nothing more than lip service when compared to other strategy games. It's like anything of value is being lost here.

>if the battles weren't just as streamlined and casual as the campaign map.
>My opinion is better than yours
They definitely should have more stances etc, not only missile and melee front, but otherwise your argument is shit. In addition, Warhammer doesn't have same shit system (pun intended) and I find it improvement, like it or not.

Can you elaborate?

I love the setting much more than any of the other ones, but I want to know what it's lacking compared to the other Warhammers.

>tfw Wissenland beats back all my attempts against them
>tfw lost my all veteran Reiksguard
I'd have won too, if it wasn't for fucking 3 of their heroes constantly assaulting my troops.
Fuck Wissenland.

Everything user. It's lacking practically everything. No unit abilities/stances/formations. No town battles. No naval battles. Tiny, simplistic sieges. Next to no empire management (no tax options, generals can't die of old age, no food to manage, no diplomacy options like gifting cities, no family tree stuff). Only 5 playable factions. Very linear and there's no freedom to the campaign (Orks and Dwarfs can only capture each other's territory, Empire and Vampires can only capture each other's territory, Chaos just has to burn everything to the ground). No matched combat in battles, units just kind of stand next to each other and swing at nothing until one loses. Ugly graphics compared to the past few games.

Are you saying that Orks can't waaagh all over the empire?

You can go there, but you'll have to get past the Dwarves first and you can't capture any of it. You can raze their cities I think, but that's all.

I'm still sitting on the fence about this game.

My big issues are...
1: the magic system
2: the sieges
3: the scummy as fuck business practices, day one dlc of a major faction, as well as the fact that there is only 5 factions in the game.

Anyone have any input on these things?

The magic is cool, probably one of the best things in this. Very entertaining to watch a huge vortex of death rip through units or curse them to laugh themselves to death. Sieges suck ass now though and it really hurts my enjoyment of the game personally. The maps are so small and simplistic.

> the magic system
It's pretty fun if you actually get to use it. I was too conditioned from previous total war game with only units that i completely forgot i had a wizard at all.

They're pretty usefull, don't really know what you're wondering about it though.

Naval battles have been kinda shit since napoleon when they went back to old times. Awkward ship ramming and boarding is not fun.

Unit stances/formations/etc are made up for by having extremely more diverse unit rosters and types I feel.

Choas are basically the huns from Atillla. It's fine to have a faction that can't capture cities imo.

I agree with many other points you made though.

I'm coming from the tabletop, so it kind of worries me that there really doesn't seem to be any counter system in place to protect your units form enemy casters.
It's all well and good that the spells can miscast, but if my line of top tier units gets there ass turned inside out by magic and there's fuck all I can do that's a bit frustrating.

I could be wrong though and maybe there is a counter system, but I haven't seen it so far.

>Orks and Dwarfs can only capture each other's territory, Empire and Vampires can only capture each other's territory
Is this something lorewise? Vamps can't inhabit dorf settlements because x?

Empire and Vampires can also capture bretonnia's territory.

>only 5 factions in the game

There are only 5 TYPES of factions. Humans have a bunch of different leaders, as do the vampires, orks, dwarves.

They're very different from each other (eg. the vampires have no missile units, but on the other hand none of the units will ever run away either). Chaos has roaming building chains that are stuck to each horde instead of any actual capturing abilities.

Compare this to fucking Shogun 2 for example, where a factions bowmen were slightly stronger and that's about it.

I don't think there's a counter system, and if there is I haven't found it after 30 hours. I've also never had any spells miscast.

It's supposed to be balanced in that you can avoid most area of effect spells if you pay attention and micro. Direct damage spells only affect one or a small number of individual dudes for the most part so they're not supposed to be effective against units of troops.

There's no real reason why they can't. Dwarves think that you can go crazy if you spend too much time out under the open sky, but that's about it.
I think it was either a shitty design choice or just laziness by CA.

That being said there is a mod that fixes it.

That mod has issues though, the game wasn't designed for it and it breaks the campaign.


The leaders, of which there are only 2 to choose from for each faction, change nothing as far as how the campaign plays out, they only give a couple passive bonuses to your faction. Does not count as more than 5 factions at all.

There are more than 5 factions you retard. There are only 5 PLAYABLE factions, which is a different thing entirely.

CA didn't play test the vampire counts campaign. Someone explain to me how the fuck am I supposed to take over all the dwarves lands and eliminate them if I can't take their settlements. Especially if they beat the orcs

Burn them
Burn them all

Having the map populated by a dozen Empire/Dwarf/Ork/Vampire/Chaos sub factions using the same units that exist only to be absorbed by the main faction of each DOES NOT count as more than 5 separate factions.

I guess that means that all previous Total Wars only had the one faction.

You take attrition damage because you can't take settlements. Also you can't replenish while the dwarfs can.

So it's a choice between getting my units assholes turned inside out by magic, or break my line up, disengage and let their units do it in combat instead.

The are 5 playable races with two leaders a pop. The leaders don't seem to change anything though.
It mainly just confuses me that they didn't add more playable races at launch. They could have done so much more with the game but instead they took the route of dlc and 3 separate games.
I'm not saying they should have added all the races, but Jesus, they could have put more in.

>defeat 4 massive chaos armies and take out dragon ogre, ever weaver and archaon
>5 turns after I cleaned it all up
>just starting to rebuild
>scout to the north
>3 full chaos armies
>led by dragon ogre and archaon

But it went right!

They make a point of telling you this shit is going to continue happening.

Welcome to warhammer, really. Where shit just happens to come back to life so you can fight it again.

Torrent where?

Its the best Total War game.

Building farms and toilets doesn't matter and all you do is war 24/7.

>feel when kholek got his shit pushed in by my cannons and the luminarch before even reaching my line

Eat iron, kholek. Eat, it.

You can destroy the chaos army faction. I have done it before.

How do you even win in the campaign? It just seems like it never fucking ends because you can't actually kill the faction leaders.

Ask china

Wut, didn't know that i just raided there shit and destroyed all there armies and 'cause of all the varg and skaellig raiding my northern and westers borders lost track and they popped up again.

Didn't think you could actually wipe em.

GRUDES MOTHERFUCKER
When i played as dwarves one of the other holds would not even stop fighting the other factions when everything around them was swallowed up by chaos, they even asked me to join their war every turn

>It's a doomstack guarding a capital @ turn 5 episode

how

I'd appreciate it if the AI at least had some pretense of fair play before outright fucking cheating so early

It was just 5 fucking turns. I don't even know how they managed to respawn with new armies and march down that far again in that small time scale. Archaon must've respawned the fucking turn I killed him. I thought I bought at least a couple dozen turns.
Also I expected an announcement again when they show up.
Anyway, I think they fucked off to raid the northern humans now, as opposed to last time where they purposefully ignored everything just to fuck me over, so I think I'll be ok for a little.

That one guy posted a pick of his empire run with everything raided and purged. It's possible but the victory conditions are boring as hell really.

I just spend my time defending and building those exclusive building in certain cities for all the upgrades they give and then i go stomp some chaos and orks.

It does look like those who know the Warhammer lore will absolutely love it, that's my case. Now those stranger to it but regular player of the TW franchise seem to dislike it.

you can kill the leaders
just gotta stomp them twice in one turn

>It's a whiner wanting easy mode game episode

You cant destroy varg or skaeliig. I am talking about archaon's faction

It's good, I like it.

The simplified city building just gets tedious after a while. Babysit all your new provinces, building the same structures in them, except maybe when you want to setup a forward recruiting province.

Glad they got rid of unit abilities. Juggling cooldowns wasn't fun and they went overboard with that shit in Rome 2 and Attila. Now you'll have to manage cooldowns and WoM reserves a handful of hero units, for better effect.

Balance needs to be improved. It's been proven that monstrous units like trolls suck ass for their cost and Demigryph knights rule the meta.

how am i supposed to stop those fucking chaos raider jarls

>I just let my enemies build their defenses up

Well maybe you should actively do something about it faggot.

I have won in empire cause they are easy. Dwarf as well. I have put myself in a winning position as VC but I refuse to go south to fight the faggot dwarfs due to lmao attrition and no settlements. Playing orcs atm.

Never cared about Warhammer, but this is the best TW yet.

Factions are varied as fuck, the new units and unit types are amazing, and for the first time ever the AI is acutally competant.

My only complaints so far is the reworked siege battles are just as bad as the old ones, but now a new kind of bad, and there's not a lot of variety on your playthroughs atm because there's only 6 factions.

Food, sanitation, and religion management was tedious, boring, easy, and in the end added absolutely nothing to the campaign.

The game is Total War. When you aren't at war you're preparing for your next one. If you want to click through menus and paint maps thoughtlessly go play Paradox games.

>Tfw i am the strongest faction after everyone else was weakened/destroyed by chaos invasions

Ambush. Chokepoints on the maps. Garrisons.

The battles are generally harder though.

Every TW prior Attila was an exercise of setting lines on a doorstep and watching the AI moshpit to their deaths into it or raining arrows onto them as they sit and take it without fighting back or doing anything.

You need to take off your autistic nostalgia glasses, little bud. Even Shogun 2 is unplayable in comparison.

Im glad im not the only calling out this game for how barebones it is.

Seems like a good number of idiots fell for the smoke and mirrors and are actually thanking CA for doing less with the game.

Newsflash, some of us enjoying managing the kingdom both inside and outside the battle engine. I guess setting the game on easy and using auto-managers wasnt enough, no lets take it out so the impatient simpletons have less to think about.

I wish they just kept the administration-hater crowd satisfied with the Greenskins. Play Orcs, have no formations, no bookkeeping, just battles and territory markers.

Those screaming for Skaven or High/Dark Elves to be added, you might want to try Mark of Chaos Battlemarch, its pretty mediocre but it passes the time

So there's no way to actually stop it? I tried razing them but all my armies died of attrition

Dwarf runesmiths can suppress magic to an extent.

You're supposed to use your agents to spread corruption so you don't take attrition.

>I like sanitation and food management from attila
Said no one ever

after the disasters of Empire and Rome II i am just glad this isnt a complete disappointment, my expectations were so low that even facebook game tier total war is fine at this point

>your lack of Chaos mutations makes me sick

>Newsflash, some of us enjoying managing the kingdom both inside and outside the battle engine. I guess setting the game on easy and using auto-managers wasn't enough, no lets take it out so the impatient simpletons have less to think about.
Why does everyone who defends the old system pretend like it was hard? Nothing about it was hard. It was boring and brought nothing to the gameplay

>have no formations
The formations are on by default now. Because literally everyone just set their formations on before the battle began and never turned them off.

>Faction strength at number 1 as Orks
>still apparently nowhere near winning despite controlling the entire part of the map South of the the Dwarf capital and the Border Princes faction
>Constant back and forth against Dwarves and can't progress further against them with them constantly sending armies


Jesus, the tedium is starting to get real

The the entire south? That is easily going to take 200 turns minimum since you can't take settlements for the adjacent bonuses

Legendary heroes can only be injured.

You can wipe out the faction to get rid of them though.

The should just go back to being able to build as many things as you want in a city. Does anyone actually enjoy their retarded little game of balance they have going on when you can only build six things in a city with half of them having massive penalties to arbitrary mechanics?

Use banshee or whatever your faction has that can block armies. Make sure to defeat all armies in 1 or 2 turns then you will defeat chaos for a good while. They will be wiped out but I think they come back after a while. If you want to make the next wave less of a pain go and raze all Varg and Skaeling settlements.

>Having the map populated by a dozen German/Roman/Eastern/Nomad sub factions using the same units that exist only to be absorbed by the main faction of each DOES NOT count as more than 4 separate factions.

I think they will come back after you slap their shit down. Just pay Brettonia to go to war against them or the dwarfs if they aren't dead

I've restarted Vamps a lot of times, playing as Von Necksucker every time with my main strat being Spam the fuck out of soulsuck on the enemy general till he dies.

I've never once noticed a spell failing. Maybe he's just immune it, but I've also played some of the other mages too and still never noticed it, I'm starting to doubt the feature actually functions.

They changed that to add challenge. You have to manage what your provinces do now, and where you'll be able to reinforce.

It was kind of a joke in ME2 and Rome when you could turn every city into a supercity and reinforce immediately after you conquer, while also constantly having forward bases.

>Enemy has one full army
>I have three
>he goes into marching stance and runs past my armies and into my territories
>can never fully catch up to him
>eventually he reaches an unprotected settlement and raises it
youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

Spells can miscast?

Wat?

So you say the current system is simplified and you want to simplify it more?

Exactly.

You can also overcast.

Double click to charge them up. They will miscast if you charge them.

If they can, I have yet to see it happen even once and I've got at least 20 hours played.

People who want skaves, or play chaos/vamps are edgelords.

People who play dwarves or orkz are pathetic manchildren

People who play the Empire is boring as fuck normies.

The chance of a miscast is almost 0% unless you overcharge the spells.

I've had a handful of misscasts from the small amount of magic I've used

>1 failed ork campaign
>1 failed VC campaign
>2 failed chaos campaigns

Guess I'll go dwarf ezmode.

>It was kind of a joke in ME2 and Rome when you could turn every city into a supercity and reinforce immediately after you conquer
You couldn't though. All the important buildings took money and a lot of turns to build. It was only in the late game when you were rolling in cash and had already won taht you could start maxing out every settlement.

I don't dislike it for being simple, I dislike it for being arbitrary. It feels like a really shitty way to add challenge to a portion of the game that doesn't require it. The fact that your capital can't be turned into both an economic and military powerhouse really annoys me. You could get the same challenging result by upping build costs and times rather than limited the player to such a tiny number of slots with the retarded food and order systems ontop of that.

Oh ok.

>once got this really cool hellish visual tone in Central Chaos Wastes
>never happened again
sad

>You couldn't though. All the important buildings took money and a lot of turns to build.
Which meant nothing, because every town was pumping out retarded amounts of money, and it only took a few turns to pump out end game barracks.

You say the new system is simplified, but limiting your options isn't necessarily simplification. It takes infinitely more thought than the old one. Which is saying something, because it's still ez pz.

God i wish i was as superior as you
how fortunate you graces us mere mortals with your divine presence

No need to thank me, it's my duty as sovereign superior to awaken you sheeple from your petty entertainment and foolishly dumb games.

thanks to whoever made this screenshot

Haven't played since Shogun 2 but
>No unit abilities
>No formations
>Game looks really ugly

It's the best Total War I've played and I'm not a Warhammer fanboy at all