I finished Umineko and I have a few questions

I finished Umineko and I have a few questions
What was Beato's reason for killing everyone unless they solve the epitaph, and challenging Battler to the game? My only guess is that it was somehow supposed to make Battler remember his promise which doesn't make sense.
Does the game between Battler and Beato actually happen, or is it all in Ange's head and Toya's forgeries? If it does happen, where does it take place, in the afterlife?
How didn't Erika know that Kanon and Shannon are the same person? She did meet them, it should be obvious. Battler didn't seem to know either at first since he didn't mention it.
In the end, does Toya "die" and becomes Battler again?

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Did you missed the whole point of the novel?

If a tree falls down in a forest and everyone is killed in a brilliant explosion but no one lives to tell the tale does it really matter?

Is the point that the truth of the past doesn't matter and lies that don't hurt anyone are okay?

Beato didn't kill anyone, as far as I remember.

It's all in your head.

It was an illusion, also Erika is a piece from the gamemaster, so she just knows.

Last answer is the spoiled pic.

Beatrice is kinda cute.

She really is. Kinzo struck gold by meeting her

Read the last few chapters of ep8 Manga, it will answer all your questions. Other people have already answered, but the manga will help you understand better what happened because there are extra scenes like Battler recognized Beato's voice as Shannon.

i wanna analfuck her

for a boy

Can't fuck what doesn't exist, user.

Should say the same about the girl you posted

It was Gohda all the time.

Is there a comprehensive torrent for these games? Usually don't have trouble with this stuff but all the various translations and editions and the game being in different parts is kind of confusing.

Yasu, after solving the epitaph and earning the title of family head, the island, and all of the gold, is mind-broken by the revelation of his/her birth. Being a physically and mentally deformed product of incest-rape, compounded by the fact that he/she was forced to live as the opposite sex in order to escape detection from Natsuhi and Krauss on top of her/his obvious disconnect from reality and reliance on alternate personalities just to be able to interact with people somewhat normally, made her/him come up with the plan to kill everyone on the island. One of the things Kinzo revealed to him/her was the existence of the tunnels and explosives underneath the island when recounting his experiences with the original Beatrice.

Also, the BeatoxBattler meta-world interactions are all a forgery created by Toya.

Erika is an extension of Bernkastel and none of her interactions with the family members should be taken as truth. She was not on the island at all.

Battler is "dead". All that's left is the new personality "Toya".

This shit never gets old.

They should make an anime just to make this as the solution

Every thread until we reach the Golden Land.

This is not Video Games

At the end of the 4th game, Beato says that the murders wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Battler's sin. At some point it was also said that they wouldn't have occured if Battler came back a year before or after 1986. We can disregard it as bullshit written by Toya or something but that doesn't feel right./spoiler]

Damn, son.

If everything you see as piece Battler is legit as the "detective", how does Shkanon work?

It's very possible, even probable, that this had something to do with it. Yasu had enough tragedy and mind-fuckery to go around. So while it is probably true, we are hearing about it in a forgery written by Toya, from his understanding of accounts. He was probably told about Yasu's solving of the epitaph not long before the island exploded.

I don't think they ever appear in front of him at the same time so it kinda works.

What are some good mystery novels? Reading this made me wanna read them and feel stupid when I fail to solve them.

Ryu07 made everything much clearer in the EP8 manga with some additional content that takes the ambiguity out of Yasu's reasoning. If you've finished reading the VN and done puzzling it out for yourself it only makes sense to go read the manga. It also contains the breakdown for what happened in episode 5. The 7 manga also clarifies Clair's and Will's slightly ambiguous breakdown of all the previous games.

>slightly ambiguous
That didn't really make any sense at all, he just said "Illusion to illusion" and some other nonsense for every mystery.

Reading these was a good reminder how shit the writing was in Umineko. Really glad the second half of the series bombed hard in Japan, it was terrible

just read the manga it's less retarded than the novel

Just watch this 8-hour long series of videos to properly understand Umineko

Whoops forgot link
youtube.com/watch?v=JHMta4YbjSM

I understood the great majority of them. However I didn't read it all at once and had time to think about each episode and talk about it with other people. If you already suspect the solution or have ideas then it isn't really vague anymore. For instance episode 2's 1st twilight. I never figured out that Rosa just straight up lied about the lock on the chapel door and there was no red saying it was locked on my own. I read it online and it immediately clicked with me as almost certainly correct. Episode 7's illusion to illusion the gold truth locks the door or whatever made it certain in my mind.

how do i play this series? where do i begin? is there a ppastebin?

Either download it from nyaa or wait until the steam relase of the first half that will come out next month

That makes sense. I got to that part many months after reading eps 1,2 and 3 so I didn't remember much about them.
Download Umineko no naku koro ni and Umineko no naku koro ni chiru. I got them both on fuwanovel.

You weren't kidding about it being 8 hours long

which is better translated

>that pic
muh dick

>playing with steam version's shitty sprites

Mangagamer claims Steam will have a better translation, but it will be missing CGs and voice acting
The CGs might not seem like much but some of them really add to what is happenning
Steam will also have the worst sprites, so since the original version is simply better and the translation is pretty much perfect I don't see any reason you should get the steam one
You should keep in mind that Umineko is about 120 hours long if you aren't a fast reader and it has some really slow parts

Go read the ep8 manga chapter that pretty much explains what happened in ep 6 and ep 7 without all the symbolism.

>What was Beato's reason for killing everyone unless they solve the epitaph, and challenging Battler to the game? My only guess is that it was somehow supposed to make Battler remember his promise which doesn't make sense.
She decided to abandon herself to fate and hope for a miracle. Like Kinzo, she believed a miracle is only worth anything if the chances of it happening are abysmal and the stakes are high.

>Does the game between Battler and Beato actually happen, or is it all in Ange's head and Toya's forgeries? If it does happen, where does it take place, in the afterlife?
It's both. The meta-world is both the "real" world and not the real world at the same time, depending on what angle you look at it.

>How didn't Erika know that Kanon and Shannon are the same person? She did meet them, it should be obvious. Battler didn't seem to know either at first since he didn't mention it.
Same reason lots of people didn't know Kanon and Shannon are the same person.

>In the end, does Toya "die" and becomes Battler again?
The Battler inside Tohya "dies", and Tohya can finally be himself

Except those made complete sense unless you were retarded

>explains what happened in ep 6 and ep 7 without all the symbolism.
still can't believe the average umineko reader was so stupid the author had to ask someone else to make a "umineko for dummies" manga

Is there any worthy waifu in this vr?

steam version has the original sprites

Erika did exist, she fell from the boat during the storm, if she drowned or got to the island is another matter

user, pls. The answer to all your questions is love.

without love...

Magic doesn't exist you fucking retards.

Iru! Iruuu! uuuu uuuuuu!

there's loadsa waifus in this vn

Shut up

bumping this
I won't have access to a PC for a few weeks so I'd like to get some reading done

Beato is besto

anyone else plan on re-reading it when it comes out on steam?
its such a fun ride

No.

I'm especially interested in the "updated translation" the Steam version supposedly has, so I will be re-reading for sure.

Yes

>75% of the text has been edited
hell yeah

I wonder how many tulpas ryukishi has.

Agatha Christie

they are not tulpas user, they are imaginary friends

Rosatrice is the only valid theory
There are still people in 2015+1 who acts like fucking GOATS and get tricked by Ryukishi

The main themes I got out of umineko was the idea of real objective truth unable to exist in the world. The closest you can get to red truth in real life is the golden truth, the truth that everybody agrees on and accepts, the truth that you personally hold in your heart, but is subject to change.

Also, just because people do bad things doesn't completely discredit the person's character. 'Without love, it cannot be seen'. If you see the bad in someone and completely shun out everything else, you'll never be able to truly understand them.

On a broader note, I really loved umineko. It's one of the greatest stories I've experienced and it really changed the way I thought about people. I still think about it and listen to that soundtrack a lot, even though I read it years ago.

Kara No Shoujo is decent, it gets a bit too dramatic in a stupid way towards the end

I'll get a few of her books, thanks.
I played that, I liked it for the most part. Forced sex scenes were off putting since I just wanted to solve murders.

The Tokyo Zodiac Murders

IIRC it ended up being true that the Epitaph riddle was completely and utterly unsolvable in English, was that the case?

Yes, there's a bunch of wordplay centered around kanji.

>Everybody feels bad for the victims of abuse in higurashi
>Everyone is angry at the victims of abuse in Umineko, to the point that the abusers are the favourite characters of many people
Bravo R07

Part 3 > Part 5 > Part 2 > Part 1 > Part 8 > Part 4 > Part 7 > Part 6

If you're into locked-room mysteries check out:
The Mystery of the Yellow Room
Rim of the Pit
The Hollow Man

All relatively short books and universally seen as the best locked-room mysteries ever written. And yes, the solutions are a lot more satisfying than Umineko's. Don't get me wrong, I love Umineko and it's what got me into the murder mystery genre in the first place, but there are so many better things out there.

Writing this all down in notepad so I don't forget, thank you

Alright, I want to see how the manga deals with Will's answers to the locked rooms. Anyone know which chapter that starts? Skimming through it now but having trouble actually finding it.

No problem, have fun reading them. Mystery of the Yellow Room is actually the very first locked room mystery book ever written and it still holds up. One of my favourite mysteries.

How did it change how you looked at people?

>re-reading volume 1 again
>get to the part where "Shannon" and several others have been bludgeoned to death and tossed into a storage shed
>red text later directly states that no fake corpses or people playing dead were utilized in this case

Uhh, I'm not sure how to reconcile this with later revelations.

Hideyoshi lied
Remember how he bullshitted so George didn't see Shannon ring?

Is your confusion with Shannon's "corpse?"
There were only 5 bodies in the shed, real or fake. Shannon's was supposedly in the back, but Kanon and Hideyoshi were the only ones to enter. They lied about her being in there

It made me start giving people the benefit of the doubt, I guess. It helped me stop really looking at things like it was black and white, and it made me start to think differently about people in my life who I had hated before.

Huh, that seems needlessly complicated. Blackmail involved to get him to say that, I take it?

I've braindumped this shit so hard the last 5+ years it's almost shameful, this doesn't ring a bell at all.

there never was a corpse

Eva and Hideyoshi were accomplices in Ep 1
That is why they let Kanon into their room before they were killed

I just read the manga explanations on the wiki and I feel raped. I love Umineko to bits but I shouldn't have treated it like a murder mystery because it really isn't.

I got a theory that Kanon and Shanon are actually 1 person that never cross dressed but are portrayed as 2 people only to the player just like Kinzo is shown to be alive to the player.
That's my theory why Kanon simply disappeared in the room, when Battler was trapped by logic error.
I went through the first episode again and noticed that no one but the people who know who the witch is will talk to both of them at the same time.
All the guests will only talk to 1 of them while ignore the other.

Can anyone who plays through the other episodes look for that as well?

This is actually a pretty common theory

I'm actually reading through EP1 at the moment and I'll keep an eye on it but how does that work for Jessica and George than? Is one of them homosexual?

newfag here im still confused are there 2 battlers? one is talking with beatrice and other one in the story?

one is battler on the gameboard, he only knows whatever is going on on the gameboard

the other battler is the player, who is talking with beatrice about the gameboard, they exist in what people most commonly call "the meta world"

Have you read the Confession of the Golden Witch manga? It revealed a lot as well. In hindsight, I think episodes 1-4 kind of trick you into focusing on the wrong things, the fantasy scenes end up being more important than people realize.
Have you finished Umineko?

No, it's the same Battler, they just exist in parallel.

If they never crossdressed wouldn't they always be called either Kanon or Shannon?
Yes. Get out of the thread because spoilers

well i don't know what others think but i think the point i'm trying to make is that the guests see Yasu, and not either Shannon or Kanon
They see 1 consistent person who looks like neither.

Yeah, I have seen people claim that, mainly in jp communities though

>If they never crossdressed wouldn't they always be called either Kanon or Shannon?
Kinzo is also being called kinzo but he's not really there

I've read theories that Jessica secretly knew what was going on between Shannon and Kanon and was a lesbian, but never brought it up.
It's interesting, but I think it's hard to fit in George and Jessica into that theory, unless they both think that Yasu is two different people.

>It's interesting, but I think it's hard to fit in George and Jessica into that theory, unless they both think that Yasu is two different people.
i can't really remember that much anymore what happened between george and jessica but didn't the have a duke out on who's love is the strongest or something like that. Seems to me like they were fighting for the same person

Were people really fooled into thinking Shannon and Kanon were 2 people or were they just going along with it to be nice to Yasu?

Yes, but Jessica was in love with Kanon and George was in love with Shannon.
If they appear as the same person all the time (except for the player, who sees Kanon and Shannon) what does that mean for George and Jessica? It would mean that either Jessica was a lesbian or George was a gay man.

Jessica introduced Kanon to her friends, I'm not sure but I think it was as a boyfriend.
George didn't introduce Shannon to anyone, was ready to fight his entire family to be with her, his mother is extremely against it. George a fag