There are people on Sup Forums RIGHT NOW who think Doom is a 2D game

>there are people on Sup Forums RIGHT NOW who think Doom is a 2D game

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It's 2.5D

>implying it isnt

That was quick.

You move in 3 dimensions, so it's 3D

there are idiots everywhere OP, there's bound to be some on Sup Forums

Where the fuck did this retarded shit come from? I'd assume Gay Theroy.

The engine renders a 3D space, but it's projected from a two-dimensional floor plan. LoS is parallel to the floor plan and walls were mandatory to be perpendicular to it. It was impossible to make any sort of ramps or apply different angles to look up and down.

sage

If you move in 3 dimensions, it's a 3D game. It doesn't matter if objects/enemies render in 3D or not.

No you don't. The game doesn't actually calculate space in 3 dimensions, just renders it. If you look you'll notice that there is never a single point in the game where one walk able floor is over another. And in non source ports things like pain elementals and cacaodemons couldn't be run under or over.

>You move in 3 dimensions, so it's 3D
The jumping wasn't in the game originally.

So you're saying it's not 3d.

Looks like you need to go back to shitposting school.

Who gives a fuck? The only consequence of that is you can't go under other pieces of scenery, which is not necessary to make a game 3D.

It lets you move in 3D, the engine renders 3D, so it's 3D. Stop spouting dumb shit you learned off YouTube.

>It lets you move in 3D
No it doesn't, you can only move on 2 axes.

Compare doom levels to quake levels.

To dɘɒƚ ƚHiƨ ǫɒmɘ, you muƨƚ ʞill mɘ, ႱoHn Яomɘɿo

You can't even make a normal cube with 6 faces in DOOM, only in Quake.

>LoS is parallel to the floor plan and walls were mandatory to be perpendicular to it. It was impossible to make any sort of ramps or apply different angles to look up and down.

That doesn't mean it's not 3D, that just means there are engine limitations.

It utilized simple geometry in order to create a space of length, width and height, i.e. 3 fucking dimensions.

>infinite vertical autoaim
How could they get away with releasing such a low skill ceiling FPS?

So MGS2 and newer isn't 3D because you don't jump?

Why does the game have to calculate every bit of the scene for it to be a 3D game? What does that extra bit of processing add when the output is a 3D scene with height, width and depth?

What next, are 2D games only scroll vertically or horizontally 1D?

You notice how when you shoot at an enemy that's 'above' you, there's no pointing or even need for aiming?

It's cause the game has no third dimension. It's an illusion.

>Why does the game have to calculate every bit of the scene for it to be a 3D game?
So I can walk under a fucking catwalk.

I played the first chapter and then got pissed off I lost all my guns.

Does it get better.

They are 3D because you can move in 3 dimensions, even if there's no jumping, you can hang and drop from ledges.

So you have to be able to jump for it to be 3D. Got it.

Oh wow, Quake lets me go under other parts of the floor, clearly this is the deciding factor in what makes a game 3D.

No one gives a fuck if you can or can't.

You don't even get all guns in the first episode

>this thread is still going on

It fucking ended in the very first post, but everyone feels the need to be pretentious nonetheless.

Fuck all of you.

Because the first poster is objectively wrong.

I think you might be retarded

>The game doesn't actually calculate space in 3 dimensions

Yes, it does. The height difference of the floor for two different areas determines whether or not the player can cross from one to the other.

Quake had levels just as complex as doom, but you never needed a map because 3D design made things work together more naturally. You can't do physics. You can't have enemies that rely on height

Dwarf Fortress is more of a 3D game than Doom

Yeah but I don't get why I lost all my guns its pretty BS desu.

The old Doom and Duke Nukem games were fucking shitty garbage.

Great argument.

Why does that make it not 3D?

this discussion is so fucking stupid
Doom has a lot more in common with literally every 3d shooter that came after it than it did with any 2D game before it
So maybe it's just "fake" 3D, but that literally doesn't fucking matter for anyone except spergs

No, you need to be able to move in 3d, which doom only allowed with a jumping mod.

the definitive answer to this should be: can it render a cube and have the player rotate around all of its six sides? if the answer is yes, then it is indeed a 3D game

if the answer is no like Doom or Starfox SNES or whatever then it isn't a 3D game

>Why does the game not being 3d make it not 3d?

Because you can't do shit that actual 3d lets you do. You can't climb up some stairs and on a sea of enemies to get to the other side.

>or Starfox SNES
Why do people always have to slip bait into correct arguments?

So, your argument is, it doesn't make a difference if a game is 2D or 3D?

It definitely does though. 2D Tomb Raider would play incredibly differently than 3D.

Nothing about that post listed a reason why Doom isn't 3D.

>i-it has no physics!
This has what effect on its status as a 3D game?

Positioning along the Z axis is meaningless in Doom's engine. It literally doesn't compute height differences.

>Oh wow, Quake lets me go under other parts of the floor, clearly this is the deciding factor in what makes a game 3D.
Clearly, moving in 3d has an effect on a game's status as a 3d game.

...

You just made that definition up based on absolutely nothing.

The definition of a 3D game is a game that operates in 3 dimensions. Doom does that and anyone who claims otherwise is talking shit.

I don't care if there were engine limitations, that doesn't change the fact that the game space has length, width and height and every object in the game has an x, y and z coordinate.

You can climb up stairs to get to higher levels. Like it or not, it's 3D.

But you move in 3D in Doom. Moving under another pathway isn't what makes something 3D.

>talking about Doom
>posts Quake webm

I don't understand

Can it do the post above you?

>The definition of a 3D game is a game that operates in 3 dimensions. Doom does that and anyone who claims otherwise is talking shit.
So you're just pretending to be retarded then?

>You can climb up stairs to get to higher levels
But you don't. It appears to be higher because of the very clever way the rendering engine works. It's not actually higher though.

If you want to be really pedantic about it, you could argue that all video games are two dimensional because they exist on a two-dimensional circuit board and all computer processes are just organized abstractions

>It literally doesn't compute height differences.

Why do people keep saying this? Have you ever played Doom? It does not take place on a flat plane. There is height in the game and height differences are taken into account, it's the difference between a step and a wall.

Why does it need to?

It wasn't meant to reply to anyone, I just figured it was relevant to the thread.

Maybe I didn't play the level where you could move in 3d, which one was it?

You clearly have never made a doom map if what you think you just said is accurate.

wait a minute...

>When you climb up stairs, you don't actually
Flawless logic there.

But that's not what it means, so no, it's not correct.

So when I fall in the pit in Indiana Jones on the atari 2600 am I playing a 3D game?

There's a reason why there wasn't 2D aiming back then. Have you ever tried looking up or down in games that used this same algorythm? Everything goes tits up.

You can shoot at a demon atop a high pillar from several feet below without regards to the Z axis.

Does every floor and ceiling in a map have to be at the same height in Doom? That's the 3rd dimension, idiot.

He's right, you don't actually move up, as doom has no concept of up or down, it just uses trick to simulate height, but internally it's just nadling two axes.

I'm guessing you haven't played the game?

Yeah you clearly haven't ever made a doom map.

>You can shoot at a demon atop a high pillar from several feet below without regards to the Z axis.

But you can't walk up there, can you?

I guess it does compute height difference after all.

No, because you're still moving on 2 axes, left/right, up/down.

Are you legitimately retarded?

>it totally plays like 3d guys
>except there's no need to aim vertically
>and you can't stack terrain
>and you can't have chocolate demons flying over a horde of imps.
>and shit like grenade physics in quake are impossible

Move over Descent, there's a new 3d game in town.

Well, yeah. You also don't really shoot demons.

You'd never call Worms 3D because the worms have shading, this is just a more advanced version of that.

Doom rendering is really very clever, and you'd be doing yourself a favour to look it up.

I did, that's why i'm so surprised to hear that. Could you show a video of said 3d level?

>No one gives a fuck if you can or can't
That's literally your argument?

The logic was that it LOOKS 3d, and that whether it actually is 3d or not doesn't matter. So it's the same damn thing. As someone else said, fucking dwarf fortress is more 3d than doom.

Including the creators

there's stairs in doom

wtf are you people on about?

So what?

Did you know in every modern game the viewport technically never moves, the whole world is moving around it? Does that now mean all walking simulators are really just standing simulators? Computers are all about simulation, not accurate recreation.

>what are collisions and impassable terrains

I guess every SNES RPG that uses impassable cliffaces are also 3D then

There's a difference between a game being rendered in 3d, and being 3d because of movement.
Doom is neither.

I guess games using Mode 7 are 3D too.

>right now there are people as stupid as op on Sup Forums

Pretty much. A 3D game could be fully billboarded like Paper Mario.

But can you move the viewport up and down in doom?

Name a few 3D games that doesn't render the character as the center and move all the world around him.

Paper mario is rendered in 3d though, not a good example.

There are ramps and drops. still moving on the z axis

Hey "Doom isn't 3D" plebs, watch these

youtube.com/watch?v=dxox5EmeEco
youtube.com/watch?v=4GJ-gzna_dE

>game theory
That desperate to not be wrong?

In doom you can move up and down stairs.

Game Theory is a retard though.

>Carmack has said it isn't 3d
>there's an entire chapter of masters of doom talking about how it tricked the illusion of 3d.

>Hotline Miami is 3D guys!

And it doesn't affect gameplay at all. The fucking invisible walls in the fuchsia gym are just as 3d as doom.

You didn't even look at the video, you dipshits. That's not a Game Theory video, despite what the title says. In fact, he's responding to a Game Theory video that supported YOUR position.

It doesn't fucking matter because this isn't a theory thing, the fucking man who made the game has said that the game isn't 3D.

This isn't something people have to figure out, we already know the answer.

It's a half press

You could in build engine games, which were as 3D as Doom is.

What you are talking about is a render limitation, not a game logic limitation. For the record, looking up and down in build engine games resulted in horrendous distortion.