SONIC MANIA

Now that the hype has calmed down somewhat, how about a cautiously pessimistic Sonic Mania thread? What could go wrong, what already has, etc?

HARD MODE: No "Sonic was never good" or "the Genesis ones sucked anyway" Adventure fanboyism

Other urls found in this thread:

tssznews.com/2016/08/03/archie-lawsuit-documents-scott-fulop-is-plaintiff-cites-almost-1000-examples-of-alleged-copyright-infingement-in-comics/
hcstealth.tumblr.com/post/110586472232/regarding-sonic-3
youtu.be/-BCf-3lSMug?t=395
vocaroo.com/i/s0ETyREwn2xH
youtube.com/watch?v=Q6KDFRBOaTg
youtube.com/watch?v=KchLs6cI20g
youtube.com/watch?v=-BCf-3lSMug&feature=youtu.be&t=24
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

>from the guy who remade the classic sonics
Naw itll be fun

It's Sonic, what could possibly be good about it? At this point the franchise only exists to be made fun of by the Game Grumps.

LIGHTS

They'll base it on Sonic 3 instead of Sonic 2.

CAMERA

NO RING MODE

This is just a fancy rewording of "Sonic was never good" with some eceleb (You) bait thrown in for good measure. Too pussy to take on hard mode, champ?

No, I just don't care about what some autistic furry says. Too pussy to face the facts, buddy?

So why do they insist on scores in this game. The scores meant nothing. They didn't do anything, they were just a relic of their generation to encourage players to play the game

>more remix stages than original ones
>Studiopolis is the best stage, none of the others are as well made or with as much attention to detail
>Sonic 2 style special stage
>Super Sonic only in the final boss
>the buildings in the background are angled the wrong way
>half the bosses are just copypaste jobs
>DLC
>overpriced DLC
>cosmetic DLC
I'm looking forward to the game, but there's a bunch of wrong decisions that could be made between now and when it goes gold.

Oh come off it fampai, you can't use Game Grumps as a point of reasoning in your original post and pretend like you're NOT posting ironically. Everyone loves a good funpost, there's nothing to be ashamed of

Actually, although we've seen the Elemental Shields from Sonic 3 and the minibosses, the level design seems much more reminiscent of a 1/2/CD hybrid. I like to think they're taking cues from all of the original Sonic games, although naturally they'll probably try topping 3K in terms of level count. As long as they've learned the lesson from long-ass levels like Sandopolis, I think it'll turn out pretty well.

I seriously have little to no pessimism about a Sonic game for once. The only thing we have to worry about is level design & how different the remixed levels will be and so far both look & sound fine. I have hope in the Taxman.

Probably just to keep the autists at Sonic Retro happy. Everybody knows Sonic is about racking up times, not scores, but in a nostalgiawank game like this they'd be silly to get rid of them. Plus the score factored into life and continue accumulation in the originals, although with the current save-game culture I'm not sure if getting continues really matters anymore.

PagodaWest did some decent things with Major Magnet though, maybe they'll do online scoreboards or something.

>more remix stages than original ones
This is my absolute greatest fear, if we don't get AT LEAST 5 new stages and significantly overhauled old ones (i.e. way more different than the GHZ we've seen), my boner will wilt so quickly.
>Studiopolis is the best stage, none of the others are as well made or with as much attention to detail
I don't think that'll be an issue, these guys are renowned for their attention to detail. Studiopolis was just chosen as the new zone to show off because of all the references to old SEGA that are in the zone.
>Sonic 2 style special stage
It's probably more likely that we'll get Blue Sphere 2, considering Taxman already had it done, with improvements, for his hypothetical S3K Remake Project.
>Super Sonic only in the final boss
That wouldn't be very Taxman-like. Hell, the guy hid Super Sonic in the Sonic 1 remake, he wasn't even in the original.
>DLC
I dunno about everyone else but if they're humbly priced, I'd buy dozens of level packs for Sonic Mania. The more the better, as long as they don't skimp on the main game itself.

Meanwhile...

tssznews.com/2016/08/03/archie-lawsuit-documents-scott-fulop-is-plaintiff-cites-almost-1000-examples-of-alleged-copyright-infingement-in-comics/

>maybe they'll do online scoreboards or something.
They probably will since the Sonic CD 2011 remake has this (and leaderboards for Time Attack).

The game will be good, but it will be a bitter reminder that sega will never, ever, EVER use this game engine to make a good 2.5D sonic game, even it being actually quite easy as fuck, as its written in C, and all you have to do is make a projection matrix that matches the sega genesis resolution and match the coordinates with the translates of the 3D objects.

Whilst I do feel bad for fans of the Sonic comic, I wouldn't be too upset if Archie Sonic ended up getting sued into the ground and the good writers ended up coming on to write the main series instead, because fuck Pontac and Graff. Might be nice to actually go into the Sonic general on /vg/ and see something other than Sup Forums-posting, too.

But on a more serious note, I doubt this will go far. Penders struck with good timing with his case, if SEGA wasn't undergoing major restructuring then they'd probably have helped Archie out more and fucked Penders in the ass. This new guy doesn't have the same advantage that Penders did, and I don't think he's going to get the result he's looking for.

You gotta wonder what fantasy ass DeviantArt world these people are living in though. So you win the rights to your Sonic OC's in a court of law. What then? They're nothing but cringe-bait once you take the actual Sonic content out of it. Just look at Penders' new excuse for a comic/story.

Why do they have to keep remaking green hill zone? I'm sick if that level.

Probably since it's iconic and shit Sega forced it on Taxman & co.

Dude, Sega said "one more lawsuit and we quit". Unless Archie can quickly and quietly settle this out of court, this might be the comic's death knell.

Everybody's sick of that level, it's obviously only in the game because SEGA (Iizuka probably) pushed it on the developers. At the very least Taxman said that GHZ Act 1 is the most tame of the returning zones, so even Act 2 should be signficantly different and the other zones might be switched up entirely. Could be cool to see something like a sunken, rusted, waterlogged Death Egg Zone post S3K, or Casino Night at day time with some desert twists thrown in (Las Vegas, you know?), stuff like that. Taxman and friends seem dedicated to providing a new experience, so I have faith in the rehash levels not being as rehash as we might expect.

Well that's a big old twist to the testicles. Again, I'm not a comic reader so I don't particularly care but it's upsetting that these autists might actually just kill the comic completely for their own selfish gain. But as I said, I would be up for some of the Comic talent coming along and writing for the games, it'd be a waste to see them just fizzle out entirely and I'd like the games to go back to having some semblance of a story like in the Adventures.

Can I get a tl;dr on what's going on with the comic?

OP said no "Sonic was never good" comments, you lose user.

As for OP's question: SEGA fires Taxman. That's literally the only real way I can see the game outright fail, added on to Sonic Team/Dimps making the rest of it.

Someone's suing them for characters again, basically. The Pendering was bad enough when it happened, now Scott Fulop wants his share of the lawsuit pie. I don't really get it personally, but SEGA is apparently sick of the constant legal bullshit that Archie comics seems to bring.

Then why the fuck you came to this thread fuckboi?

>suing them for characters
What, Sonic OCs? That genuinely sounds like a joke. Shit nigga, c'mon.

Did Sonic always stick to the surface when rolling on inverse loops? I feel like that was a thing they started doing in Sonic advance. I don't really like that mechanic. If Sonic is is on the outside of a curve, then he shouldn't stick to it like a magnet. He should roll off. It really goes against the whole pinball-esque mechanics.

That's EXACTLY was Penders, though. The fact it's nothing but "muh DONUT STEAL" is what's the problem when ALL of them are just recolored Sonic characters, SEGA has the right to get pissed because it's basically THEIR characters by copyright.

It really does sound like a joke, doesn't it? You need only look at what Ken Penders has been doing with his characters since he "won" them from Archie. The guys a walking talking DeviantArt OC stereotype. I honestly can't believe stuff like this can get this far but that's the legal system for you. Even SEGA is too overwhelmed by how retarded it is, so they've basically gone and said "if we get in a legal dispute over OC's again, the comic gets the axe".

Basically, the comic is probably done for because a few manchildren want legal ownership or royalties for Coldsteel The Edgeheg.

No, it was in Sonic 2. Metropolis Zone done it first. It was also in Carnival Night Zone as well.

It just got more overdone in the Advance series.

I think technically it has always worked that way, they just didn't put very many of the slopes you're talking about in the original games. Probably because they knew it didn't make much sense.

I'm not thrilled about the remix stages. At the very least I hope that the amount of new stages alone would constitute the substance of a full game, with the remix stages being fun extras they throw in.

>Penders won that lawsuit
Oh good gravy, Jesus titty fucking Christ. I guess Chris chan was on the jury.

Are you certain? I need to see examples. I'm already searching carnival night, and not finding any. except the circular devices you can spin on. But those are exceptions, as they're meant to be magnetic.

No, Archie's legal team just sucks. They lost his work-for-hire contract, meaning they technically had no defense to stand on.

>yfw some of the remix stages end up being fully reimagined versions of the 2-player stages in Sonic 3 such as Endless Mine

Penders was ridiculous since all those characters look like Knuckles edits. But Scott Fulop's characters are almost all generic enough that they could be used elsewhere, with the only exceptions really being Predator Hawk and Lightning Lynx. Why not just let Fulop have them?

Because this is about reprints and him making money off them. If he wins, they can't reprint old stuff anymore.

No reprints means no more precious Sonic Selects or...whatever they call those digests.

But you didn't say anything against that, it's honestly implied they are magnetic BECAUSE you spin around them, like on edges in Sonic Advance. Same shit.

Again, it was long before Sonic Advance did it, that was what your point was in your post. It just wasn't in level design via hills/cliff sides like in Advance and later 3D games.

Wasn't there a fire that removed most of the evidence though?

Also, forgot pic.

Some say a fire, some say a careless intern with a shredder. Either way, their claims in court weren't good enough.

>What could go wrong
Denuvo

Those are present in every classic game.
>Sonic 1 - Scrap Brain
>Sonic 2 - Metropolis
>Sonic CD - Metallic Madness
>S3&K - Carnival Night

Oh, and another thing I was mistaken, it was actually Scrap Brain Zone that had them too, not Metropolis Zone. I knew there was another Classic Sonic game that had it.

Seriously, dude? You should have known I wasn't talking about special devices like that circular rotating thingy in carnival night. Objects like that have special properties. They aren't part of the standard physics. It's not the same as standard slopes.

Standard slopes aren't implied to be magnetic because you stick to them. That's not how logic works. Most slopes aren't even made of a magnetic material. The indications that the circular device has a special property, is conveyed by the fact that it is rotating.

There might be more remixes than original levels, other than that, I feel no pessimism.

I could definitely see it happening. Taxman did say that GHZ Act 1 is the tamest of the returning zones, and full versions of the 2P levels was actually one of the advertised features for the proposed Sonic 3 Remaster he wanted to do (legal issues stood in the way of that one, presumably). See pic related, I wouldn't be surprised if this and Blue Sphere 2 wind up in Mania in some form.

Hopefully we can also see Desert Dazzle in it's true intended glory. Maybe even a stage from Chaotix? If we're getting rehashes, they better be the most creative rehashes in the world, I will flip my shit if I see something like Chemical Plant again. Green Hill was bad enough.

>Logic.
I'm not speaking LOGICALLY here, I explicitly said this "magnetic slopes" effect as stated in your first post was as pointed out by me and that it's been part of the games since the very beginning, just more overused in Advance. It's the SAME. They just don't have level design with slopes going upside down BECAUSE it looked wrong to the makers of the classics.

>Did Sonic always stick to the surface when rolling on inverse loops?

Is what you said. Implying all "upside down" slopes, which came to mind as . If you didn't meant that, you should have specified that first. Sonic 1 did it first, not Advance.
Hell, I even remember it was a thing in Taxman's old fangame, Retro Sonic. And that was using the old physics engine as well, on actually underside slopes.

I don't think I have it in me to be pessimistic about this game.

>the story is told in quick, wordless in-game cutscenes a la Sonic 3 & Knuckles
>mfw

what system will this be on?

...

thanks

>pc
phew

Sega's next move after Mania needs to be a console/PC bundle release of the Taxman iOS remasters, along with a newly remastered Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

All of my money, Sega. Just fucking take it.

Hopefully there are mods up the ass for Mania & Project 2017.

I wanna see some Sonic Spinball.

>It's the SAME.
It's clearly not the same. Because it's situational. One is a standard slope, the other is a special device.

>Implying all "upside down" slopes
Stop. Just stop. You misinterpreted what I meant. Don't try and push blame on me.
"Inverse loop", doesn't mean "special circumstantial magnetic device". I was fairly clear in describing a standard sloping situation.

This.

In all likelihood I think it'll come to NX too given how easily portable the Taxman engine is, it just wasn't announced for the NX because this is a digital only release (most likely) and Nintendo has announced precisely jack shit about how the eShop or it's successor will work on the NX.

You'll probably get a few graphical/sound effect nods to Spinball and that's it. Spinball is about as non-canon as it gets

I thought legal issues held back Sonic 3 from getting remastered? It wouldn't surprise me if that's partially why Mania exists in the first place, Sonic 3 Remastered got an overwhelming amount of support online but it just can't happen unless they swap out half of the music or go through a gruelling legal battle. I fully expect to see Blue Sphere 2 and other proposed features of Sonic 3 Remastered getting retooled for Mania instead.

Basically.
hcstealth.tumblr.com/post/110586472232/regarding-sonic-3

>You'll probably get a few graphical/sound effect nods to Spinball and that's it.
We've already gotten one of those. Going in the Hornet van here makes a sound from it.
youtu.be/-BCf-3lSMug?t=395
vocaroo.com/i/s0ETyREwn2xH

.
Why do I get into this shit all the time now? It's the same. It doesn't matter "HOW" it happens, Sonic rotates around something, underneath something, and that's that. Period. It doesn't matter if it's "magnetic" hell how it is really if Sonic isn't METAL. It's just an excuse at this point to whitewash Classic Sonic doing something that Advance triggered you over. I never had any problems with that shit, it's nothing more out of place than a fucking blue rat in red shoes.

But fine, it's not the same. Just know it wasn't the first time Sonic been doing that in Advance.

Fucking this. The only green hill remake that was tolerable was emerald hill

That's not palmtree panic

Not the one you're talking to but wow, you are really autistic and also really wrong.

How can they have trouble releasing Sonic 3 now when they've already released it multiple times in the past like in Sonic Mega Collection and that DS compilation?

>All this dickwaving over one type of slope
Whichever one of you was originally asking, here's the basic lowdown. In the original Sonic games, inverse slopes had the SAME magnetic, stick-to-the-floor effect as in Sonic Advance, they just never used those types of slopes in the levels. It's as simple as that. Crack open SonED2 and make a downward curving slope, Sonic will stick to it. The spinning magnetic things are irrelevant, that quirk has always existed in the engine, it was just the level design of the Dimps games that changed.

> Sonic fan is autistic
Tell me something else that's new.

Thank you.

There's probably some kind of legal difference that separates ports as being ports, and 'rebuilt from the ground up' remakes as being new games. That, and I'm fairly sure the legal dispute involving Bobby, Cirrocco and co. only started in around 2011-2012?

I originally asked. And thank you for the straight answer. I wasn't even sure if the other guy understood the question, because he keeps insisting that standard slopes are the same as the magnetic devices. Like, how am I supposed to know that a device specifically meant to act in an uncommon way, is using a common mechanic?

In any case, I don't like it. I don't like sticking to outside curves. Unless it's used for special devices.

Can we ignore the sperg and resuscitate the thread?

>It's just an excuse at this point to whitewash Classic Sonic doing something that Advance triggered you over.
Or, perhaps, the fact in the classic games, this mechanics was only used very situationally makes the difference? Maybe it's use in Sonic advance was a bad thing? Maybe the mechanic is simply bad, and has nothing to do with suspension of belief?

I trust whatever Taxman does, I just hope he's putting Desert Dazzle in this game. I want that southwest america aesthetic.

No problem lads, just glad to get that one over with because it had a simple answer

I don't think the Mania Team will overuse outside curves though, they've all researched the level design of the old games pretty heavily, and outside curves like that only exist in VERY select situations, namely the tubes in Chemical Plant and Launch Base. They're near nonexistent otherwise, and I would imagine that Taxman and Stealth are well aware of that fact.

>Can we ignore the user expressing a critical point of view about the game, so we can resuscitate the thread where we express our critiques of the game?

I would really like to see Azure Lake remade.

Only stage I wouldn't mind seeing remastered is Lava Reef. I was kinda pissed they went with Sky Sanctuary in Generations but at least the music was decent. Hell, the track they used in Allstars Transformed was good too, especially the music with the Back In Time song from Sonic R

youtube.com/watch?v=Q6KDFRBOaTg

youtube.com/watch?v=KchLs6cI20g

>I want that southwest america aesthetic
Same fambo

Sonic Ball Run when?

But I saw an outside in Studiopolis. It's already in there as a standard feature. I don't trust they won't exploit it. But, I dunno, maybe they can do more with it than what Sonic Advance did.

>Probably just to keep the autists at Sonic Retro happy
>implying we give a shit about that

the only issue there could be is level design

chris whitehead has remastered the older games, yeah, but that doesn't mean he's a master of original level design. I do have confidence it'll be good though, isn't a big member of sonic team helping out with it?

>It's already in there as a standard feature
As it was in Launch Base Zone Act 2. They /could/ abuse it, but I have faith that they'll only use it in fitting situations, just like the classics.

So is mania all new levels? or is it a remake of the first 3?

CAMERA

I didn't appreciate Lava Reef until I got older. As a kid, it was just a bothersome level, that only served to transition into the awesome part two, where it turned all crystal. But then the crystal part was completely trounced by Sky Sanctuary. Sky Sanctuary was my favorite back in the day. It had everything. The lore, the music, ancient technology, warping, bouncing on clouds, a huuuge turning platform, mecha sonic, crumbling sloped bridges, outrunning the crumbling tower. Nothing could compete with that level. The only disappointment was that there was a single act.

>chris whitehead has remastered the older games, yeah, but that doesn't mean he's a master of original level design
Level design probably isn't his strongest point, you're right. Nor is it Stealth's. But Taxman, Stealth, and PagodaWest have enough talent between them to come up with level design that at the very least blows the Advance games out of the water, even if they can't quite live up to Yasuhara (but really, who could?)

They have a better understanding of classic level design than Dimps did, or Sonic Team with the Generations 2D levels. That's a step in the right direction even if it's not perfect.

I didn't know All-Stars Racing Transformed had a version of Sky Sanctuary & Back in Time. That shit sounds smooth as hell.

Also I know your pain, user. I wanted Lava Reef in Generations as well. I'm still surprised as hell they didn't whore out on DLC with levels like that, it feels like a missed opportunity.

A combination of brand new levels and levels plucked from the old games but "remixed" with new level segments, new bosses, powerups etc.

The biggest fear in the Sonic community at the moment is that it'll have more of the "remix" levels than brand-new ones. Hopefully that isn't the case.

Too busy sucking CD's dick to actually be good. CD is a fan darling and its aesthetic is fine and dandy, but in terms of level design it's far and away the worst of the classic Sonic games.

I don't think that's the case, though.

>As it was in Launch Base Zone Act 2.
Are you sure about that? You're not confusing a standard slope with a special device again, are you? Are you talking about that gray spinning tube?

Because, again, that's not the same thing.

Ahh, that sounds like it has large potential. Nab all the best from 1-SnK with a bunch of new ones. Totes down for it.

>Look mom I posted the level design meme again
>aren't I a funny guy
kys

Good to know other people share my taste
>tfw working on sanic style game and all levels are north american themed

Nope, actual factual outwards curves. If I recall correctly, running at a decent speed or rolling made you stick to them, approaching them slowly made you fall off of them. They weren't really abused though, they mostly led to dead ends.

You can get an idea for what the remix levels will be like by watching the Green Hill Zone gameplay. It starts out as a virtually 1:1 layout copy of the original, but then halfway through changes to original level design, ending with a brand new boss. And it's already been said that GHZ is the most tame of the remix stages, so you can expect that the rest will change it up even further.
youtube.com/watch?v=-BCf-3lSMug&feature=youtu.be&t=24

Show me a level worse than Whacky Workbench.

I'll wait.

what is the worst sonic level of all time and why is it Marble Garden Zone

ezpz