What makes an RPG good?

I still to this day can't tell what makes an RPG, well an RPG. I've seen some good examples and bad ones

Which one is more important? The choice and consequence or the stats and different builds you can make?

Pic unrelated, i had nothing to use

Some people will argue gameplay, others graphics, and some story. I'll argue for something else, polish. The thing is, your game doesn't have to be the best and brightest thing out there, it just has to feel good when you play it. Some might argue that this is just gameplay under another name, and while it definitely applies there, it's not the only thing I'm talking about.

It's going to sound weird, but I base a lot of my first impressions of a game, not on the gameplay (generally too simplistic earlygame to matter), or on the story (generally takes a few hours to really get rolling). No, I base a lot of my first impressions on the menus.
>oh shit nigger, what the fuck are you doing trying to judge a game off the menus
It's simple, really. Menus are probably the single most overlooked aspect in most RPG's, and it's really funny because they're typically the part of the game you're messing around in the most. Poorly designed and functioning menus are a drag on the rest of the game, as the player ends up spending more time wrestling with them than actually playing the game, and they're generally indicative of the overall level of attention to detail and playtesting a game has received.

Now, this is by no means a hard rule, and there's plenty of other shit besides menus, but they're probably the most immediately accessible indicator that a game has had effort put into it, and it being worth your time.

One autistic wall of text later and I realize I misread the initial question entirely.

brb, committing sudoku

Still a nice read and bump, thanks user, you can try again

In my opinion, there's not a single thing that makes an RPG good, but rather it's all about the ensemble. You can't have a good RPG if you focus only on the story and forget about everything else.

Though, if I had to pick one thing only, it would be immersion. If it can't make you forget you're playing a game, then it's probably not a good game.

Mostly the atmosphere, world design, lore and characters. At least for me.
I can't stand RPGs with randomly generated characters/companions (Dragons Dogma comes to mind).

Also, stats. Slapping a number on your sword handling allows you to compare it to your other skills, and decide (If you're given the opportunity) how you're going to play the game, depending on your choices regarding stats attribution.
The simple fact of seeing stats make you feel like your character is unique and differs from others.
Also, gaining a level makes the player satisfaction, no matter the game.

A swing and a miss, so let's try again.

I'll be blunt, just saying a game is an RPG means jack shit, simply due to how broad the term RPG is. People can pinpoint subgenres and their identifying traits with relative ease, but applying a definition to the umbrella as a whole is a fair bit more difficult. The broadest definition typically entails specific stats that are capable of being leveled up, or more accurately just changed in general.

This means Mass Effect is just as much of an RPG as Mother 3, just as much an RPG as Kingdom Hearts, just as much an RPG as Deus Ex, just as much an RPG as basically any game to have ever existed. While such a definition is technically accurate, it's too vague to get any clear sense of identity out of.

This is probably the root of all the "X is a real RPG, Y isn't." shitposting and bait threads here, simply because people impose additional definitions and limits onto the umbrella term, which generally means that they're actually talking about a subgenre instead of the umbrella term as a whole, thereby creating a false equivalency between the umbrella term and what they actually mean.

Feel free to debate this though.

choices that matter
either to the way you play the game, or to the game world and characters, or both

What makes an RPG good is the exact opposite of what makes a game good. Face is RPGs are bad games and the only good RPGs are ones that primarily focus on gameplay over story.

Bethesda games, Souls Games, tons of other minimal action RPGs that focus on fun stuff to do rather than story and decisions.

Turn based isn't fun unless the turns are action based turns, isometric is a shitty perspective, non action MMO like combat is also shit and all the games people praise for being good RPGs are bad games for these reasons.

Clearly it is too much to ask for a game that offers all the complexity of a snoozefest of an isometric RPG but the fun gameplay of typical video game.

The Witcher kinda did it but it's basically just a one class god type character and Bethesda games even have more variety than that not to mention hundreds of locations and thousands of mods.

Look I want an RPG that's a good game as much as anyone else but you're lying to people if you think it's been done. It hasn't and it won't be until shit like AI assisted development and tech like that is in the fray so companies can just have minimal staff getting AI to make good games because companies are just too Jewish to have both atm.

Prove me wrong.

Your fault for only enjoying real-time, open world games user.

>Your fault for only enjoying fun video games
Also Souls games aren't open world but they should be

Alpha Protocol did that best IMO, and it didn't turn out to be a good RPG.

You could probably make a quick buck writing blog posts on Cracked if you wanted to you know.

>Skyrim
>Amazing abilities and customization that doesnt tie you down to one class

>Persona 3
>Really good story, cast of characters, music, atmosphere and gameplay. Plus the whole dating sim thing.

>Final Fantasy Type 0
>Great gameplay with really fun characters to play as

There are many factors, but having different builds and shit is probably the most fun aspect.

I'll take that as a compliment, user.

Well i know some shitposter is going to say

>DA:O
>good

But it is my first thought when i think about a good RPG with meaningful choices. I think as an RPG is a fantastic game

>companions have life, they interact with eachother, they react to your decisions, they can choose not to support you if a certain mission goes against what they believe (i.e: How Leliana tries to kill you if you defy Andraste's shrine) and having their affection can unlock some extra quests and affect the ending greately
>even if the endgame is allways the same you can reach it under really different circumstances
>your choices do have consequences (i.e: Saving the grandchild of Arl Eamon, can be done without harm if you did a previous part of the campaign in a certain way)
>there is a lot of room for customization when it comes to your character
>there is a lot of good animations and the characters don't just stand around talking all the time (and this is an old Bioware game)
>the gameplay and the combat has to be the weakest aspect of the game but even then, it can lead to some strategic fun (at least for me)
>they don't shove lore down your throat. it is optional and there is plenty to read in the codex

It is just a fantastic example of an RPG, i can't believe how they managed to do that in the year they did and how bad they fucked up the sequels later

They also aren't fun.

Seriously, it was meant that way. their video content is plebian at best, I don't care about quirky anti-piracy easter eggs they talk about, I wanna hear about what factors actually make games amazing.

You like video games for the wrong reasons.

Am I having a good time with it? If yes, it's good.

Roleplay, atleast some form of character creation and stats for the character and weapons. I sucks that any game that has fantasy/adventure elements get rpg slapped on them.

Fuck it now that i'm on full autist mode i can keep going

This game is a better RPG that most recent RPGs sold as such. Memes aside, there is actually choice and consequence in this game

Mind you this has one of the simplest settings i've ever seen and i only played the game twice (Pacifist + Genocide), but if RPGs are meant to be mainly about story and choices, then this is another example of a well done RPG

It doesn't really offer stats, the equipment has little to no influence on the combat but i still consider it a good for its price tag

>what makes an RPG, well an RPG

Building your character/s.