StarCraft Ⅱ

Will they make it?!

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will they make what, OP

They are trying to give SC2 a final shot.
If this fails they are gonna remake SC1 I assume
us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20241474/

>Will they make it?!
>They are trying to give SC2 a final shot.

Is SC2 and its scene really in that bad shape?

I only really played WoL for the first couple of months or so it was out.

It's now basically deader than dead.
Things were actually nice back in 2011, but then it just…

and the game is still going to be a total shitfest where the only way to really win consistently is by cheesing and beating up on enemies mineral lines constantly. not to mention any changes at things like macro has all the hardcore players bitching and moaning, who then complain that the game is dying and that new players dont play the game much. hmm, I wonder why, when the ladder is dominated by cheese in almost every match and new players are heavily gated by micro+macro shit...

I hope they do, I actually really like this game, even if I'm terrible at it.

Well, on principle some of the changes sound fine (like siege tank buff) but I think SC2's primary problems are more fundamental than unit balance.

as a spectator my problem with sc2 is the unit blobs, it's so boring to watch compared to bw.

>Hurr durr lets give DT's blink and give Tempest Psi storm that last THIRTY THREE SECONDS

Nah.

Like what? I haven't played since WoL launch.

So they balanced the game too much?

I played 2 a bit back when it came out but just wasn't the same as the first. But I hear they're remaking 1 and I'm stoked.

>Like what? I haven't played since WoL launch.

There's too many fundamental problems to list succinctly to someone who doesn't play the game anymore. Basically Blizzard added a bunch of units with stupid point and click gimmick abilities that nobody asked for and they're impossible to balance.

You can't remake SC:BW same as Valve were unsuccessful porting DotA over to Dota 2. The way pathfinding works back then is far different, and unit movement was just far different back then to now.

I guess that's why Day9 stopped playing

RTS is dead because it's too difficult to be good at, you have no team mates to blame for your losses, and it's not fun to watch unless you know how to play well.

For example, it tends to devolve to boring blob warfare in which any advantage you gain can effectively be pressed further until you're untouchable and then you beat enemy army in one decisive engagement and it's gg.

In Brood War this wasn't a thing because controlling armies like that was effectively impossible due to 12 unit selection limit but there's a wealth of other reasons like inefficient AoE, efficient mining even with fully saturated bases (ie. benefits gained from establishing additional mining bases with x worker supply are reduced) and probably countless other reasons that aren't obvious enough for me to enumerate. Unit balance can cause players to use units that are more fun (like mech in favour of bio) but it doesn't alter the overall style of game.

The fact is, Brood War (which isn't necessarily the ideal RTS formula to begin with, but it's similar to SC2 so it's an easy comparison) is far more dynamic, strategically varied and interesting (+in terms of spectatorship, watching a virtuoso player is FAR more impressive because a diamond level player in SC2 does largely the same things as the best player while in BW merely moving armies efficiently is impressive). Of course, to an extent that's a side consequence of flaws that are better off fixed, but because SC2 has nothing to compensate, it's just dull.

I never really knew this Day9.
How was he?

I'm not much of a E-Celeb fag or anything like that, but he's the shit. Not just as a gamer or whatever but he's such a genuine dude.

>tfw gif too large to upload

This game never really did anything for me after the first month mainly because the way you have to build your base. It's basically the same thing over and over, and if you're terran you always have to block the ramps.
I know it's an RTS but this in particular was really tedious.

>Is SC2 and its scene really in that bad shape?
Scene is mediocre, the game itself is okay
Those who spout "deader than dead" never played on iCCup and weren't watching the scene before SC2 beta hit the shelves

is it still blob vs blob?

Watch some GSL now. It's streaming.

SPL*
ops

i'll give it a look i stopped watching towards the end of hots and haven't really been following the scene since.

yeah that engagement was kind of lacklustre...

what is this some korean smite clone?

just starting to read the notes and it basically seems like we wanted to make the cyclone more like the vulture and seige tanks aren't as effective because we decided to make medivacs instead of leaving medics and drop ships.

>spectator
>watch
You're everything wrong with videogames, kill yourself.

Well, that's what Blizzard (unsuccessfully) designed SC2 around so it's their fault, not user's

You're part of the cancer.
Also SC2 is much more fun to play than SC1 as far as gameplay goes.
Only niggers like you would actually defend broken mechanics, shitty AI and abysmal pathfinding as "features".

Sc2 was much more fun back at the WoL release, imo. Just the basic shit and nothing more.

No other game makes me fucking hate 1v1 more.

They already made BW:HD it's releasing soon.

Fuck off retard.

Ah yes, the classic "I have no arguments so I'll insult and tell you to fuck off instead".

lol assuming a couple of design changes are going to give that carcass of a multiplayer game another chance.

blizz are just retards. they should've introduced a skin market or something similar years ago, but they can't be bothered because they have become incompetent. all they do nowadays is push out polished turds with no substance

t. 12 year old sc2fanboy

>you're cancer
is not an argument either

so you can suck a huge cock

The scene's not dead, unless your definition of dead is "not as popular as Dota clones" or "not the #1 esport anymore".

I've been watching regularly since the release, and as far as I can tell the "starcraft is dead" thing is just a meme, which has been around for years at this point.

If you like a game, play it or watch it, if you don't then don't. What's the point of talking about how dead a game is if you don't like the game? Just do something else. If you do like the game, it doesn't really matter whether it's the most popular game or not, as long as it has a healthy enough scene, which SC2 has.

The game is also in the best state it has ever been in. The LOTV changes were massive for multiplayer and the game is about 5x more enjoyable to watch.

Here are some sweet matches from recent times:

youtu.be/Q7lfe6_KsM0

youtube.com/watch?v=M9brjcmP1-k

youtube.com/watch?v=dIup061tNR0

youtube.com/watch?v=bDkIVMfFz4o

who's casting for this spl? pretty dull

>kys
>cancer
pot calling the kettle nigger

This is why it is not popular. Not because it's not good, but because it takes actual skill and effort to get good at.

Check out some of the games I just posted, the game is much better now than in HOTS.

>more ad hominem
Yes, do ignore the arguments I listed.

I think its a lot of fun to watch.
But the problem is often that you dont have enough viable varity in build.
Be it SC2, AoE2, Warcraft or Supreme Commander. You always have 2-4 builds wich are the go to standart for casual players, which makes the games repetative and predictable.
I would appreciate a RTS wich give you A LOT more unit and upgrade choices. Think about SC2 with all units mixed together.

Teamliquid still the best place for guides? For toss?

Ok hotshot, if we're going to bring argumentation theory into a fucking chinese cartoon discussion forum then

>Only niggers like you would actually defend broken mechanics, shitty AI and abysmal pathfinding as "features".

is a strawman large enough to make every hippy in a 30 mile radius weep

>SC2 is much more fun to play than SC1 as far as gameplay goes

is a subjective opinion that I disagree with.

Now go back to sucking cocks please.

I don't know I don't really get into guides, but as far as I know teamliquid is still the main community website for SC2.

>The game is also in the best state it has ever been in.
Are you very certain about this

I'd know if I could read the changes

Well that's my opinion, when do you think it was better - at release?

lol watching spl now, too many units.

the harassing was a bit more interesting but looks like it's still protoss deathball?

Just play 2 base all-ins, with a warp prism preverably.
Its fun, you can change things up and casuals play for the late game most of the time.

Starcraft's problem is that Blizzard doesn't balance. They've never ever been good at balancing and it's been very apparent across every single title they've ever put out that they have no intention of accruing the frequency, quality, or community connection that would allow them to effectively balance their games like LoL, Dota2, and others currently do (say what you will about LoL, patches every 2 weeks with paragraphs of notes and tons of changes are the community standard now).

With BW, the community themselves balanced the game through custom mapping along with the custom game scene and community-organized laddering. Now, Blizzard has a tight control on things and doesn't update the ladder pool frequently enough for that to be a source of balancing. Don't believe me? The largest exodus of players occurred because Blizz refused to patch out close spawns on Metalopolis, along with some other maps, for months on end, leaving zerg players to auto-concede and terrans to have a massively inflated ego/elo.

Until Blizz relinquishes control and lets the community put together their own pool of maps or the community eschews the laddering system altogether in favor of a custom-game based ladder with a ProGamingLeague-style website-based ladder, I don't see SC2 ever returning to its former glory.

>Valve were unsuccessful porting DotA over to Dota 2
Retards actually think this.

2011. Wings of liberty - I found that most enjoyable, and people were very passionate about the game.
It also held some depth as far as the plot went, untill HotS ruined it all.

I still remember that top highlights video

Ever since I heard the SC2 devs claim that Collosus made Reavers redundant by having the same utility (this is before release) I knew they didn't know WTF they were doing and the game would quickly die.

>effectively balance their games like LoL, Dota2, and others currently do

Does this mean Blizz is in full panic mode?
>WoW
So dead they won't release sub numbers
>Diablo 3
Not dead...but nothing announced and diminishing returns.
>Heroes of the Storm
The corpse is beginning to rot away
>SC2
Dying, death remains to be seen with this patch
>Overwatch
Didn't buy it. Don't know. No one can tell me if the balancing is good or not. Doesn't seem to be overtaking LoL.

>it's yet another episode where all the retarded rts casuals on Sup Forums shit on a competitive rts they don't even play or know anything about

LoL puts out a patch every other week with tons of changes, all documented, and further discuss them with the community during the weeks in-between. Say what you will about the balance, they're putting in a more than adequate effort for their community. It's better than patches every couple months maybe from Blizz.

Day9 is nothing but an annoying fag.

>competitive

that engagement was everything that's wrong with sc2.

But Blizzards biggest problem is that they designed SC2 too much after the pro scene.
On my gold - diamond level the game is just a flow chart. Whoever has the tighter build order wins, countering doesnt matter that much.
Also they fucked up custom games.

I was specifically referring to the state of multiplayer. IMHO the average group of Code S nowadays has much more interesting games than any played in WoL.

Do you get off on fantasies of companies you don't like failing? That's not healthly man. Just take a step back and realize none of this shit matters.

Hey mate

But there's a very good argument to be made that balance can't be figured out without time to test everything deeply. Without any patches at all, the SC2 meta game is different from week to week. Patching constantly would just throw wrenches into the machinery.

You're fucking retarded and have no idea what you're talking about because Blizz's approach is deliberate and what the starcraft community wanted for the longest time so as to let changes sink in and get a clearer picture of the effects

The game is balanced fine

It has pretty much always been more or less balanced

The problem isn't the game balance

The problem is that the game is FUCKING BORING

FUCK

DEATHBALL VS DEATHBALL

GAMES DECIDED IN A 15 SECOND FIGHT

IT'S SHIT TO PLAY AND WATCH

Yeah and LoL isnt balanced one bit. All you have is flavour of the month champions which just happen to be to strong.
Thats how they keep the "varity" of the game alive. Just look at quicksilver or tristana.

I can't tell if you're trolling. We've watched their approach fail time and time again, what with the Hearthstone community currently in an uproar over the state of Priest and Rogue, to Toss winning every single tournament in a 6 months span during HotS, to close spawns making one race completely unplayable during WoL.

Ironically, I would argue that your "wait and see" approach is more apt for LoL than SC2, given that players can switch champs to someone else who fits their role if their champ of choice becomes useless but you can't easily switch races in SC2 if yours is currently impotent.

>Diablo II and Diablo HD remakes announced
>Stracraft HD remake announced
>Warcraft III HD remake announced
They don't need to do shit, they've already won and found the golden goose

it's nostalgia

In casual yeah.
On a pro level things get a lot more compilcated and I enjoy watching it. But yeah, thats the reason the casual playerbase like me is dying away.

>baneling hit points increased

While I agree and I think that they secretly maneuver the balance of the game so that assassins are always OP during Worlds, it's still the golden standard of balancing today. Even if the game is still unbalanced, it's more because their balance team blows dick with "Healers shouldn't exist" Morello and "Let me suck your dick while you talk about your feelings" Xelnath.

spl match was just decided by curious a moving his deathblob into classic's deathblob.

>No Warcraft 2 HD

Joke's on them I won't be paying them for rehashes.

You can take any RTS game and watch two players play and every game will be decided by an army attacking and defeating another army.

"Deathball" is a meme. In SC2 army composition is one of the most important factors in deciding how a battle will play out, along with unit positioning, micro, special abilities, etc.

Depends on how much money Kotick can smell in the air when he mentions I and II

>i won't play HD D2:LoD, i swear
You and i both know you're full of shit

The competitive scene might not be dead, but the playerbase has crumbled like crazy. Finding team games has become a pain in the ass. Back in 2012 i used to play 4v4 with my mates every day and we had a blast

>unit positioning, micro, special abilities, etc.
I don't think you understand why people hate deathballs.

The Cyclone
Anti-ground weapon heavily changed.
Damage changed to 3 (+3 vs armored) damage, attacks once per .07 seconds, range increased from 5 to 6.
Weapon upgrade amount changed from 2 to 1 to account for the new damage value.
Changed weapon name to Tornado Blaster.
No Anti-air weapon.
Movement speed decreased from 4.72 to 4.13
Lock On can now target air units only. Range is unchanged, and the ability now deals 160 damage over 14 seconds.
Removed auto-cast for the Lock On ability.
Supply cost decreased from 4 to 3.
Increased health from 120 to 180.
No longer requires a tech lab to build. The Cyclone can now be built with a reactor.
The Cyclone auto-attack missile art is now smaller to avoid causing visual clutter. The missiles fired from the Lock-on ability are unchanged.
Removed the Cyclone Lock On Damage upgrade from the Factory Tech Lab.

The Siege Tank
Sieged Siege Tank damage increased from 35 (+15 vs armored) to 40 (+30 vs armored).
Sieged Siege Tanks can no longer be picked up by Medivacs.

The Liberator and the Thor
Liberator Change:

Remove the +light damage for the Anti-air attack.
Thor Change:

Anti-air splash for the Javelin Missile Launchers radius increased from 0.5 to 0.6.
Thor High Impact Payload Mode: The Anti-air weapon, 250mm Punisher Cannons, will now be prioritized before the Anti-ground weapon, Thor's Hammer.
The Banshee
Removed the Fusion Core requirement for the Hyperflight Rotors upgrade.
The Viking
Ground mode auto-attack now deals +8 mechanical damage.
The Battlecruiser
Energy bar removed.
Yamato Cannon and Tactical Jump no longer require energy to cast. Instead, each has a separate cooldown.
Yamato Cannon cooldown is 71 seconds.
Tactiucal Jump Cooldown is 71 seconds.
Removed the Behemoth Reactor upgrade (energy upgrade).
The Raven
Auto Turret damage increased from 16 to 24.

The Tempest
Increase supply count from 4 to 6.
Anti-ground damage increased from 30 to 35, but no change to Anti-air damage.
Anti-ground weapon range from 15 to 6.
New ability: Disruption Sphere
Immediately launches ball of energy and fires at target ground.
Damages ground units and buildings in that location
Deals 450 damage over a 32 second duration.
43 second cooldown.
Area of Effect radius set to 1.95.
13 cast range.
No friendly fire damage.
The Zealot
The "Research Charge" upgrade will now increase the Zealot's movement speed from 3.85 to 4.13.
The Carrier
Remove the Release Interceptor ability.
Interceptor cost reduced from 25 minerals to 5 minerals, and autobuild is enabled from the start.
The Dark Templar
New Ability: Shadow Stride

Allows the Dark Templar to teleport a short distance.
Research from Dark Shrine.
150/150 cost.
121 research time.
Cooldown of 21 seconds.
Creates a visible smoke-effect upon being cast.

The Swarm Host
Swarm Host cost reduced from 150/100 to 100/75.
Increased Locust Swoop range from 4 to 6.
The Ravager
Add +Armored flag.
The Hydralisk
Hydralisk attack range increased from 5 to 6.
The "Evolve Muscular Augments" will continue to give +1 range to the Hydralisk, as well as a base movement speed bonus of 25%.
Changed the Hydralisk movement speed to be affected the same as other units while on Creep. Muscular Augments now gives a 25% speed boost both on and off of Creep.
The Baneling
Health increased from 30 to 40.
The Infestor
Has a collision radius while burrowed (but smaller than normal).
Can cast all abilities while burrowed.
New Ability: Deep Tunnel
50 mana cost.
Can cast anywhere on the map with vision.
Provides an audible warning to the enemy when Deep Tunnel begins.
The Brood Lord
Range reduced from to 11 to 10.

I know you're a pathetic little fanboy if you're going to be drooling over a fucking remake.

this plus scissors, paper, rock hard counters does not make for interesting watching.

They will release HD:BW regardless of sc2.

>playerbase has crumbled like crazy
That's what I thought. Sad fact, perhaps.

I really enjoyed parade pushing Bio/Mine in Hots. While I wish there would be some new sucessful rts TvZ stays one of my fav. matchups in the rts gerne.

Can´t talk for Lotv..stopped playing after Hots.

Yeah it happens to every game eventually. Most games online scene dies after a few months. Like with all good competitive games, there will always be that chunk of hardcore players, like Quake, Forge Alliance, Counter-strike, etc

I know you're lying to all of us if you can even pretend to not be interested
>Muh "blizzard was always shit" contrarion stance
We get it, you like "sophisticated games"

No, I'm not interested, because I've played those games and that's it. I don't have any interest in having their corpses taken up and reanimated. Let me guess, you're still interested in HL3? Fuck off back to pebbit.

>Broodwar HD comes out
>Blizzard leaves custom games just as garbage as they are in SC2
You know this will happen

Of course. Developers don't want to give their players control anymore. They make up reasons but those are all lies. Until they relinquish control, however, the gaming scene will continue to slowly die.

>Blizzard ever allowing custom games to be a thing
>After losing DotA
>Then watching the people who made SotIS drop the ball on HotS harder than previously ever seen

It would be a miracle if map editor was even joked about

I can't speak for anyone else, but what killed SC2 for me was the catering to APM mechanics just for the sake of inflating APM. Practically every one I've watch that talks about how APM is important always just uselessly clicks 50 times on the ground with a single unit to inflate that number.

I want to play a game, not give myself carpel tunnel.

You know Movie? He's slow.
But he's always been one of the best.

Apm is a just fun thing to check after you've finished a match, and the ranking (now mmr I think?) is surely more important

confirmed for bronze

SC2 halved, if not quartered the APM requirement to be pro. Micro isn't nearly as important as macro is to the game now. For proof, see the ubiquity and hate over the concept of the deathball.

...

I'm more worried about Blizzard ripping LAN play out. That would pretty much kill all interest I would have in any sort of BW remake.

Why? Online play+Skype largely emulates the traditional LAN atmosphere and 99% of the players can't take advantage of the latency boost from LAN.

Unless you'd hold out on principle. In which case I'd salute you.

Who the fuck talks about how important APM is? It's not really very important.

The reason pros spam click like that is because they are warming up for the intense moments when they actually will be using all the APM to good effect.

traitor slut