""""Villains"""" who did nothing wrong

""""Villains"""" who did nothing wrong

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/nxurtdJD2eg
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>overextended his army to the breaking point
Why is it that these "nothing wrong" guys that this site always talks about are terrible tacticians?

that's the joke. you take an incompetent who did everything wrong and try to spin it so far up your ass until you find something they did right

The King did LITERALLY nothing wrong though

I meant morally

Okay he overextended his army due to viewing them as disposable pawns to reach his goal. His loss was due to his morality.

>failed to see Pacer as the threat to peace in Freeside he was
>couldn't be bothered to make the first move in negotiations with NCR despite ostensibly being the highest authority in the area
>voiced by a Jem'Hadar

He was too busy with his two hot chicks in nightwear.

>overextended his army
>still manages to take over new vegas and the hoover dam

yeah what a blunder

That would only be immoral by modern standards. He's no different to NCR in that regard.

He lives in a time and place where securing important resources or eliminating dangerous enemies takes precedent over ensuring as few people lose their lives in the process as possible.

...

Only if you ally with him. In a stalemate between the legion and NCR the NCR would have won. They are better equipped and supplied.

The NCR only wins if you side with them too. If you don't do anything and just leave the game running for ten years nobody will make any progress or accomplish anything at all because you are the vehicle that drives the plot.

...

No, if there was no Courier at all, the Legion would have won easily.

They already took the Dam in the First Battle and were only stopped at Boulder City by the Rangers. For the second battle, the Rangers have been put in shitty positions by General Oliver and Lanius isn't going to fall for that trick again.

NCR is being drained dry by the Mojave. General Oliver completely mismanages all his soldiers so he can have his moment of glory. The Fiends run rampant outside Vegas and get fed intel from the spy at McCarran. The Khans are waiting to attack from the rear. The BoS rises up to attack Helios One when they see NCR is otherwise occupied. The Omertas attack the forces on the Strip.

Hell, even when you actually get to the battle as anyone but Legion they've already made it to the Visitor Centre, the Dam is already theirs by that point, you just turn the tide.

...

Is that Trump?

This.

Legion can't take core NCR territories, but Caesar doesn't want to. He wants Vegas as his capital.

...

>pop the CASIE
>"lol ur just mad u cant have augs fgt"
>"YOU'RE DAMN FUCKING RIGHT I'M MAD... wait I mean I did all this for meaningful philosophical reasons"

is this a jojo reference?

Caesar wants to conquer NCR but with the dam and all its water, plus all his spies posing as refugees, he can afford to sit in the Mojave and watch NCR start to collapse from the inside while building his strength

Although without intervention he's probably long dead by the time his army reaches Vegas itself

...

>supporting the Legion
>despite the fact its gonna implode in a decade
kek
If you wanna help them, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. Only that your choice in factions is shit.
>hierarchical inherited monarchy
>unsustainable source of soldiers
>stubborn chastity of most advanced technology
>NOT EVEN USING HOOVER DAM PROPERLY
>crushing cultures, instead of integrating them

And the worst part...
They'll pillage Big MT.

>monarchy
Come on, user

It is a monarchy, but an absolute one. Dictator is rather harsh and biased, and, even if I don't like Caesar, I respect him, and what he's trying to do.

>Dictator is rather harsh and biased
It's literally right there on coins he himself had minted to commemorate his own rule. It's a Roman term. He is an absolute ruler with no hereditary succession.

>play tyranny
>expect good factions like in new vegas
>the two major ones are absolute shit and borderline retarded

I mean, it's a fun game and has a ton of replayability, but goddamn the factions and characters are terrible.

HEHESFFAST

...

As soon as Caesar dies the legion dies as well
Without him holding it together, it would crumble faster than you can say nuclear winter

Even if they win at Hoover Dam, it would just be a matter of time before they fall apart into tribal factions and then it's just a matter for anybody powerful and opportunistic enough to sweep them all away

>no hereditary succession
Then what was that whole thing about his heirs fighting over his place as leader if he dies? Also I misunderstood the term dictator to be a negative one, I apologize.

Did you not play the game or something? The NCR were the guys getting stretched thin, while the legion gathered strength.

This.

If you attack Hoover Dam on the Legion side it's super easy and the Legion troops basically steamroll the NCR guys without your help.

He literally did nothing bad for protagonist. Never.
He just wanted to talk, while protagonist act like a very unreasonably bad man. Protagonist was the real villain.

YOU ARE A GAPING ASSHOLE MCNULTY

WE BOTH KNOW THIS

>implying the courier wont take over the legion if you side with them
>implying the courier wont lead the Legion to fuck up the NCR in California

Caesar fucking loves you by the end of the game if you side with him.
You saved him from dying from cancer and are a more competent person that Lanius by far.

Felt so fucking bad for him

The Legion is a military force united under a man they consider their god. When he dies, the only person that will be able to lead them is the ranking military officer, the Legate.

If Caesar and the Legate go together, the only people left to lead the Legion will be the Centurions and it's highly likely they'll settle the matter of who gets to be promoted to Legate by fighting for it because violence is the only thing they know.

If you do the conversation without using the "I win" button, Darrow admits that he can't be augmented and says he would be like Jensen if he could. He goes on to say that many others like him can't get augmented for one reason or another, and says that augmentation technology divides mankind.

>unsustainable source of soldiers

Do you honestly believe this? Tell it to ISIS.

just like liberals

The legion is held together by their culture. The worst that could happen after Caesar dies is they start arguing over who has the correct interpretation of his beliefs, like what happened in the middle east.

I have no idea how they are held together after talking with Joshua and Ulysses about the tribes.

Huh. Alright. Thanks for clarifying.

My statement still stands, he has unlimited power, with nothing to stop him incase he goes insane or stupid, and no peaceful succession. Not as bad as House's leadership, but leadership is not why the Legion are the worst for the Mojave.

They're gonna run out of tribals to enslave eventually, and procreation doesn't seem to be a priority for the Legion, especially since it's, what, 15 or 20 years old? Thats hardly enough time to train adult soldiers.

>t. loyal shoddycasy subscriber

>divides mankind
>mankind divides
>mankind divided
Darrow did 9/11.

Would you kindly give yourself a pat on the shoulder, my good man.

Every breeding age woman in the legion is forced to get pregnant around the clock.

The Legion is held together by subservience to Caesar. Their culture is defined by violence and subservience to Caesar. Their religion, as little exposure it gets, has Caesar in the prominent position of Son of Mars.

He is the central figure in their lives and without him, things start falling apart.

Sauce please, I have nearly 1000 hours in the game and I've never heard this before.

That's what others may say, but Caesar himself is aware of it and believes that the monoculture he instilled in all those conquered tribes will persist after him. Like how various countries stuck together after becoming unified, like Britian, China, Greece and Italy.

The old black lady in the legion camp tells you.

I'm a slave.

House is Trump

This guy does nothing wrong in Darkest Hour and Hearts of Iron 3/4.

Don't know why everybody hates on him.

Hillary is that woman in the NCR who wants to start wars with everyone.

Caesar is aware that the Legion is little more than an army that will break apart when he's gone. His whole plan is the realization that nothing he's made will last.

He didn't create the Legion on purpose, he didn't set out to create a lasting empire. Somewhere along the line he saw the writing on the wall and came up with the idea to conquer NCR, to give the Legion something to protect, with a proper place in a new society. It's the only way the Legion could survive, by integrating a large, pre-existing civilian population. It could never settle down on its own merits, not with the way it was formed and expanded.

...

Huh. I don't ever remember talking to her. I believe you, though.

Still, 20 years means there's not that many Legion-born soldiers, given that they become full legionnaires at 16, and the Legion when they were born was tiny. Most of their soldiers are instead enslaved from pre-existing tribes, which are a finite resource.

every protagonist since far cry 2 act like a fucking psychopath

>tacticians
That's a strategy issue, not tactics. Tactics is thinking on the scale of a battle, strategy is basically on the scale of the war (getting to the battlefield, for instance).

>full legionnaires at 16
Lanius was a full Legionary by 12

She doesn't want to start wars, Khans and Kings aren't really big enough to "start wars" with them. She just prefers to wipe out troublemakers. If she was nominated for president, I imagine Sup Forums voting for her. She's a stone cold bitch.

Lanius is an outlier and also has several conflicting backstories in the game.

What do you consider the "good guy" ending for NV? I know NCR ending is the only way to have the Brotherhood of Steel survive and not be assholes, but I just can't get over my dislike of the NCR and actually join them

>Hey random stranger I just met, take this incredibly important chip to this bunker to do this thing that is vitally important to all of my plans, nah I won't send any of my guys to watch you do it or just do it myself, I'll just sit here

It's the most likely, since Lucius has the least reason to bullshit you about what he knows and you find out from one of the crippled Rangers that the Legion has absolutely no problem using children in war.

There's also the fact that tribal societies in a post-nuclear wasteland would probably lower the age of "manhood" due to needing more productive members of society sooner

He's a unique case, with many conflicting stories of his origin, but I understand what you're saying, most legionnaires become full soldiers at 12.

Anyway, given the meat-grinder tactics of the Legion, first-gen legionnaires are either dead or Centurions, and we know how rare those guys are.

I'd say 14 is the realistic age for Recruits, and then you have to prove yourself in combat to move further.

Independant, since it leaves everything open to interpretation. Whether you are good or evil, anarchistic or autocratic, micro-managing or distant, is really up to the player's discretion.

NCR is also good, since they try their best to take care of the little people. They usually fuck it up with buearucracy, but at least they tried.

...

House with a Good Courier. It's the best result for the most people in the long run.

NCR gets the water and electricity it needs, without needing to hold the Mojave, with the added benefit of Kimball and Oliver taking the blame for their crimes. Anything they lose to House paying for them will eventually be recycled back because NCR is the only trading partner House will have for a long time.

The Mojave prospers because simple capitalism dictates no one will live, work or visit the place if House doesn't improve the quality of life for everyone there and his whole plan hinges of reigniting high industry, which can't exist without a stable base. All while the Courier acts as his second in command, balancing out his coldly calculating rule with decency and humanity.

This is literally a non issue considering the Legion is shown to follow bellum se ipsum alet 100% and rules through the love of conquest, rather than the guise of Democracy like the NCR. They are based on the Romans after all, so when they win or fight, they pillage/ "live off the land"/ salt carthage.

It's pretty funny that this dialogue ends the war with Legate Lanius as it's more of a NCR issue than Legion. It's shown that the NCR is the one horrifically over expanding, adding potentially hostile people under the bear flag without respect for the NCR. I'm sure Caesar or Vulpes wouldn't fall for the NCR's courier projecting as they were the more intellectually inclined among the legion while Lanius got played by Caesar I'm sure.

Theoretically, one could achieve the same result with Independent Good, replacing House's intellect with Big MT. But then again, Independent is really the head-canon/"I don't know how reputation works" ending, so a lot of it is open to interpretation.

>I just read Atlas Shrugged: the game
Molyneux pls go

I watched a stream with Josh Sawyer, the lead designer of the game, recently, and I love how he absolutely refuses to name his favorite faction or to talk about which one would win in his opinion.

DELETE THIS

Sawyer is a god in my book.

And Avellone is the devil in my book.

The Legion is overextending because they rely on integrating tough, independent tribes who know how to live off the land

The Mojave is lacking in those sorts of people. The Legion resupplies from the front, not the back. NCR can't get its people and resources from the Core Region. The Legion can't get its people and resources from the Mojave.

I wouldn't go that far. It's kind of sad that he broke up with Obs, but I still like a lot of what he wrote and a lot of things I've heard about him personally make him sound as a good man. I hope he'll be fine outside of Obsidian, and I hope Obsidian will be fine as well. Sawyer said he was promised to lead a historical-based RPG after his current project (PoE 2, most likely), so I hope he get his chance too.

They can just relocate, especially since Arizona is a really shitty place and Mojave is comparatively clean.

...

>Legion is overextended

What? They're invading the mojave, but that's just an invasion force. Where does it say they're overextended? That's the NCR's thing, a whole bunch of their quests involve lack of adequate resources and manpower.

I hope you enjoyed the book m8!

That's the argument you're making to Legate if you have 100 Speech, IIRC.

That implies that it's nearly if not entirely a falsehood then, doesn't it? If that held any water, it wouldn't have taken 100 speech.

yea.. just like hitler did nothing wrong

Not really, you sometimes need high Speech to tell truth in believable manner. There's also a Barter argument, something about trade routes.

That entire final battle of wits with legate was garbage.
With barter 100 you convince him he can't win because of supply lines.
You are literally fighting over one of the strongest military bases in the area, stocked with weapons, ammo, and food, and an infinite supply of electricity and clean water, the reason he's fighting is for supply lines.

The guy you're saying it to is a blind fanatic. You need 100 Speech to make him see any reason whatsoever.

You need 100 Speech to convince Lanius of something he already knows but refuses to accept because it gets in the way of his legend of never losing a battle

He even shares an anecdote about he's fought the exact same kind of worthless battle before, taking Denver city and how that almost killed the Legion as well

>supports pillaging, slavery, hanging and gencide
>nothing wrong on a moral level
Jesus fucking christ, ain't you edgy.

...

JSawyer is the only dev these days who has integrity, or atleast thats what it feels like.

>Ghostler
youtu.be/nxurtdJD2eg

>persuading Lanius
>not chopping him up with the Blade of the West, in the Courier Duster

>implying Caesar could ever single handedly take Vegas from Mr. House

>The Legion is overextending because they rely on integrating tough, independent tribes who know how to live off the land
>The Mojave is lacking in those sorts of people.

no, just. That is how they lived, but not how they want to be later on. They could just as easily rely on other things. Did the Mongolians give up and never take on the Khwarazmians after uniting the tribes under one yurt? No they had feudal vassals or subjects as well.

>NCR can't get its people and resources from the Core Region. The Legion can't get its people and resources from the Mojave.

For the first, I am confused over your wording of the Core Region. I don't know if you mean NCR capital or New Vegas proper. If they could just take in supplies from the mainland then it's stunning they have such a surplus, but considering they want the dam, if I remember right, to bring electricity to the mainland; then they are somewhere in this "front to back" situation as the Legion is. This means they are suffering in a shitty spot although not equal.

And for the latter, yes they can. They have already gone in shittier environments in the four states they are in. They have just about the same chances (except for technology) as the NCR to get the supplies out of the land. They can just live off the land like any other army in history.

Didn't Benny give him the platinum chip?

Fun fact: You only think those things are bad because you live in a society where technological progress has made them utterly redundant and you now have the luxury of finding them repugnant

If the world ever goes to shit on a scale like Fallout, modern morality will quickly take a back seat to pragmatism and brutality

Real dindu nuffin right here.

...

Vegas can't defend itself without the upgraded army under the Fort. House will tell you this himself. If NCR wanted the city badly enough they could just take it but the losses they'd incur doing so would just weaken them in the face of the Legion's next assault, so they play nice.