Where did it all go so wrong, MMO genre?

Where did it all go so wrong, MMO genre?

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Wow bc

People stopped caring about fun and only cared about bigger numbers. Devs and players alike.

The inherent problem with the MMO genre is that it has a highlander situation going on, there can only be one.

Obviously, there can be multiple "alive" MMOs at any given time but any good MMO thrives on having not just a robust population, but a fucking massive one. It's why World of Warcraft and Everquest even worked in the first place. How could you run full raids to hit up the world dragons if each server couldn't house a city population? How can you have active world pvp if only a few people are leveling at any given time? How can you have a dynamic economy and lively guilds without the people to engage in them?

The more MMOs there are, the less the MMO genre works. This is further worsened by the introduction of massively multiplayer online games that aren't RPGs like mobas.

The MMORPG (in any style where a truly big game like WoW could come again) genre is dead and its never coming back. Its a relic of a specific time and place where the internet and internet gaming just started hitting its pace and everyone wanted to take a part in it.

I remember the whole fun of vanilla wow. Leveling up and seeing a level 30 and thinking wow holy shit. Seeing a fully geared level 60 and being in awe.

Questing and exploring shit I had no knowledge on.

Now u can buy a almost full levelled character and everything is shoehorned into the easiest way possible.

They just catered for the lazy cunts who pay money instead of keeping it sacred

youtube.com/watch?v=gUUJdlo6Qwc

best explanation

You are retarded. Even giant MMOs like WoW or Everquest never had more than a few thousand players on any server. You don't need a million fucking people to fill a server.

Basically this. Everyone wants instant gratification. It doesn't help that companies care more about making quick buck from the .1% whale population than having a long-running game that's successful. People will just jump ship into the next new shiny MMO when it happens.

VR is the last hope for MMOs.

Because they keep doing the same stupid shit over and over again. People can only stomach so much before getting bored of something.

You just got old and bitter

I'll enjoy my FFXIV that me and my friends put thousands of hours into while you go and sulk about your old school days being a NEET in FFXI.

Pretty sure it's been about numbers for player from the beginning of the genre, unless you played some weird primordial shit I've never heard of.

>You just got old and bitter
But I was already old and bitter beforehand.

Minmaxing and guides for every fucking step in a game killed mmo genre

WoW. From the way I see it there's a clear divide between pre-WoW MMOs and post-. It's less about the autistic RPG now and more about casual bullshit veterans don't care about. Now that WoW is dying it's casual masses have flocked and grown up leaving only the veterans and nubile autists in the market but nobody wants to make games for them.

It's because the internet is losing any social interactions. Meme, stupid viral videos, clickbaiting and aggressive publicity are huge contributor to the decline of internet social relations. When it started it was new and fresh, a new way to communicate with people across the globe for legitimate talking. Now it's all putting up a mask and bursting out your real life anger on others here. Like a guy trying so hard to RP people would consider it trolling. There's no sens of camaraderie anymore.

Two things:

1) fucking up UO with Third Dawn
2) making any MMO besides the original UO

People keep making MMO's but consistently forget to put an actual game in it.

Hotbar games are like rolling a hoop down a hill with a stick. When we were simple that was hot shit, but compared to what we're capable of now it's just not engaging. Most MMO's now are graphical chatrooms with game mechanics as a secondary consideration.

Yep. Time to go home, everybody. Show's over.

The original MMOs were literally just that. Taking the focus off interacting with people and exploration and on MORE DEEPS and flashy combat is what has killed the genre, starting with WoW.

>People keep making MMO's but consistently forget to put an actual game in it.
Oh please, every modern MMO is some shitty wankfest of an "action combat" game with lods of waggling and boring "skill based" combat of smashing an evade button.

There's not much you can do with large scale MMOs outside of hotbar combat without running into latency issues. Why do you think all "action MMOs" like PSO2 and Destiny are instanced base with few people instead of hundreds of people.

marketing

Too much time invested in trying to design a game to get people to spend money instead of spending time making a game people want to spend their money on.

MMOs today are for pussies.

When was the last time PVP had a meaningful impact on the world in an MMO?

the thing what made old mmos like vanilla wow or ragnarok so fun was the necessity of being social. you couldn't do the fun things like instances in wow without looking for a group.

>When was the last time PVP had a meaningful impact...

...in any game.

People who don't like MMORPGs offering critiques on MMORPGs.

Example: people bitching out PvP being gear-based.

yes obviously a modern city population of several million isn't what was implied you fucking idiot

but a MMO still needs to have a large population to work. It's why they kept decreasing raid sizes, made a bunch of features that required manual grouping autonomous, and instanced most pvp

Greed and appealing to casual masses

We get it, Tree of Savior was garbage and not the Ragnarok Online successor people hoped for.

Don't try to pin the blame on all MMOs.

>want mass market, aka casuals
>dumbdown the game
>take less efforts
>so fuck it, let's put way more on the marketing than the game itself
>?????????
>PROFITS!!!!

All MMOs should require partying to get pass a point. Otherwise what's the fucking point?

Cancerous western devs bled the genre dry and moved on to the next FotM genre as is always the case

So we're just going to have this thread everyday now, and with the same answers inside too?

This. For reference, check this comic made for Tree of Savior.

The game is plague with issues but it started going downhill for real when they removed world PvP and added auto-party queuing for dungeons. People just sit with the queue window open and finish the boring runs without exchanging even a word because FUCK BEING SOCIAL, RIGHT GUYS?

Oh, and Gachas. Gachas on every-fucking-thing they can possibly shoehorn them on.

World of Warcraft worked because of marketing. It allowed them to get a huge playerbase to fuel world pvp and manual groups.

A MMO without any marketing, minimal marketing, or bad marketing and therefore a small playerbase would instantly implode.

This.

Stay salty and lonely guys while I enjoy being part of a community.

I went back to ragnarok after 10 years of wow. I love it now more than before thanks to seeing the downfall of wow

Are you on atlas? is it still alive

>Cats and Potatoes

Alright yeah I'm cool with being salty if cancer is the alternative

>lets make an MMO more single player oriented because casuals hate playing with other people

>Today's social interaction in mmos equate to the tank giving a brief overview of the dungeon run
>You will never experience the simple joys of sitting down and having smallchat with strangers outside of a dungeon or major town
>You will never make the same kinds of friendships you did in '05

Little to no focus on social gameplay and the rpg aspect. Now it's all about squeezing as much cash out of every player as you can get away with, usually involving RNG stat raising.

Fuck I'd kill for one like Log Horizon or Overlord.

>anime
disgusting

looks so comfy

You're uneducated. MMOs were better off in general before WoW and their marketing budgets were non-existent compared to it. An MMO doesn't have to be a mainstream hit to be successful or perfectly healthy.

Honestly is this game worth playing if it become my only fulltime game on the side of my life?

on PS4, can you also connect a keyboard for chat?

Such a stupidly cynical post.

The internet has hardly changed. People still communicate authentically and there have always been retards. Try getting off Sup Forums.

MMOs are suffering from the flawed school of Zynga game design. Game systems designed by marketers to make people want to spend money to make the game more accessible, complete, easy, etc.

And WoW is the exception in the market because nobody has been able to do what they do. If it worked with WoW then it should work with everyone else when we all know it doesn't.

You do know you're on Sup Forums right? You can't escape it.

Dunno I tried that. While I like being able to do all classes from one character the plot really really sucked and I dropped it. Was some sort of tree hugging hippy elves in my starting area.

>if it become my only fulltime game on the side of my life?
don't do this with any game or you will set yourself up for disappointment, this is what depressed NEETs do.

They got too easy.
Slow leveling MMOs were better.

Also people ran out free time.

Maplestory 2 soon.

Wow just needs to drop the subscription and inflate it's cash shop with cosmetics that are reasonably priced. People will always pay for ways to look like a special butterfly.

I just want to putter around as mid levels and take my time leveling and exploring again. But with a monthly sub I feel like I need to be powering to endgame to keep up. Shit feels like work instead of a game.

>muh socialization
>muh community
>muh long time commitment to the game
jesus christ, go outside you fucking losers.

>MMOs were better off in general before WoW
Everquest had a shit ton of marketing too

Unless you want to go all the way back to UO

Playing on official euro/fro . Its buggy, desyncs, lags and has the new worse renewal stuff but i enjoy its grindyness and how level ups feel rewarding. I even leech myself with a priest for advanced masochism

God forbid that people do things they enjoy.

What is the point of a game being "massively multiplayer" if you don't actually play with other people? The fucking losers are the ones doing six million Mephisto runs without saying a word so they can have the highest numbers.

It's cynical and it's the truth. Sadly.
The internet did change a lot, you're saying all those kinds of people existed before and I'm saying the negative side has taken the majority now.

Also I think the multitude of chat options is a detriment to use the open-all chat in game.

Outside sucks. It's the worst MMO I've ever played. The devs are worse than Blizzard when it comes to balance.

Other MMOs are way better desu.

Pretty much this. In the past people that hated playing with other people normally dropped the game before they even reached level cap. Modern MMOs are now about welfare gear and personal 3 button rotations Very minimal group synergy and group coordination required for end game content. Just don't stand in bad stuff and spam that rotation and you're good to go.

No way it was anywhere near WoW's and not even close to being as mainstream. But even games with much lower player counts had healthy life cycles. It's not necessary for an MMO to have huge numbers to stay up. Only better for the publishers.

>woa we're all sitting around a table, we're all interacting and having fun! some guy is actually drinking IRL omg what a crazy dude hahaha
>some dudes are emoting a kiss kek they look gay
>lul we been doing nothing for 2 hours because there's nothing to do in the game, we should renew our subscription so we can keep logging in doing nothing in this room we're sitting lmao.

Maplestory in a nutshell.
>Nerfing and removing PQs to promote farming
What is wrong with korean devs.

Ragnarok was doing fine with around 20k players before WoW blew up.

That's when they started implementing a cash shop to try and catch up on revenue they felt they were suddenly losing.

So many MMOs killed prematurely just to try and achieve WoW's success.

>Try getting off Sup Forums.
Where to? Haven't found a decent place for discussion in years.

No, don't. Even the developer says to play other games. Like, his response to a fan saying they're bored as fuck was to stop playing and do something else.

FFXIV is a blue balls waste of time. Look no further than the FFXIV general on /vg/ to see what sort of players this game attracts.

The gameplay is a joke and everything you've come to expect from a generic MMO. The story is laughable, easily one of the worst Final Fantasy stories ever. You pretty much run out of worthwhile stuff to do within a few months.

Only thing it has going for it is music and certain bosses, that's it.

Play the trial, see what you think, but more than likely you'll be quitting within a few months because the game fucking sucks overall.

For me it was a lot about bragging and admireing. In vanilla wow i inspected some rogue with full t3 during a wsg and was jealous, happy and stuned. I was amazed and i was given something to compete with. So since tbc up till warlords i was always one of the top geared on the server due to dedication. But the easier it got the less i cared about it up to the point where i stopped.

>woa we're all sitting around a campfire, we're all interacting and having fun! some guy is actually drinking IRL omg what a crazy dude hahaha
>some dudes are emoting anime cliches they look gay
>lul we been doing nothing for 2 hours because there's nothing to do in the game, we should spend more money on the cash shop so we can keep justifying our playtime in this game by doing nothing near this campfire we're sitting at lmao.

Id argue wotlk but I really can't even make that argument.

Back in the day when ragnarok was on its last legs.

>Like, his response to a fan saying they're bored as fuck was to stop playing and do something else.
YoshiP was basically saying don't be a poopsocking NEET that plays this game for thousands of hours. There are other games out there that should be experienced and no one should be railroaded into playing one game forever.

The fan pretty much agreed with him and said that he was indeed playing too much.

>The story is laughable, easily one of the worst Final Fantasy stories ever.
Heavensward has a better story than 10, 10-2, 12 and 13.

While that doesn't put it in the top percentage it doesn't make it one of the worst ever.

Thank you guys. I won't

>no-lifers want to create a fake life rather than living their own
these people ruined it, why should any game have a real economy? If I want to get a cool new sword I should have to beat a hard quest, not give some jew a bit of gold

>Look no further than the FFXIV general on /vg/ to see what sort of players this game attracts.
I fucking hate XIV as much as the next guy, but claiming /vg/ generals are the norm for MMOs is nonsense. Every general on that board is filled to the brim with dogshit waifuism and faggotry.

no

the inherent problem is that the MMO genre is no longer necessary because its main advertising feature (lots of players playing the same game at once and you can socialize with them) is now very common in other genres, thanks to every other game having online, and the advent of social media

the genre is now a niche style of online open world rpg with character progression, and while there are people who are still interested in that, it does not have the mainstream appeal it once did for previously stated reasons

>That's when they started implementing a cash shop to try and catch up on revenue they felt they were suddenly losing.
>So many MMOs killed prematurely just to try and achieve WoW's success.
This so hard. WoW just fucked everything because it showed you could make ungodly amounts of money off mmos. Now it's the benchmark instead of the exception.

>You pretty much run out of worthwhile stuff to do within a few months.
most games these days have you run out of stuff to do within 24 hours, a few months sounds like a lot. you sound like a no lifer if you say otherwise

Alright faggots let me break down why you and nobody else should buy the game.
>Buy to play
>Pay to play with an-game subscription that is required to be competitive
>Cash shop items that provide boosts you cannot get in-game and are required to stay competitive
>RNG cash items that provide stats that are required to stay competitive, get ready to spend upwards of $400 to get the stats you want
>Pay to Win you can buy and then sell your cash items to gain silver which then can be used to buy better gear
>The game is based around gear, you will never "outskill" anybody. ever.
>Everything in the game is RNG based, enchanting, drops, cash items, horse breeding, money you get from trade runs, fishing, gathering, if it's in the game it's RNG.
>Class balance is fucked, hard. Ranged classes typically dominated in the early part of the game and now they have Awakenings.
>Awakenings are huge boosts to classes that make them super insanely powerful, not all classes have them right now
>Awakenings were supposed to all come out at the same time but the devs lied and eventually decided for a staggered release, stretch that content a little further
>More dev lies. They said cash items would never provide boosts, that you could never sell cash items, that our version would be different than korea's, that our game wouldn't be as braindead as korean, and of course the PvP bounty system
>Speaking of PvP 1v1 doesn't exist so get prepare to get zerged by entire guilds all the time
>Also open world PvP doesn't exist they removed all penalty for dying and only the attacker loses anything, so nobody does it
>Sieges, the things guilds can do to take cities, dominated by zerg guilds either join one of them or miss out entirely

If you need info about anything else ask up, I'll let you know how shit anything about this game is just so one more person doesn't waste their time

You never played UO, SWG, or even Runescape if you think there was nothing to do at all times in older MMOs.

You summed it up perfectly.

I haven't played an MMO WoW BC (I quit shortly before WoTLK). I played a lot of the popular and not-so-popular MMOs before that.

I finally bit the bullet last August and started playing XIV, and that was the exact experience I encountered. Felt like I was in some babby-mode singleplayer game with multiplayer aspects. At first I'd talk to people in dungeons -- towards the end you'd be lucky to get a "o/" out of me.

As such, I didn't make a single friend. What MMO lets you hit cap, complete the game (except the hardest content) with complete strangers? An easy as fuck one.

It baffles me that people enjoy this game. I guess if you're into raiding it's a good sub to keep up, but if you don't do raiding... Jesus fuck, what is there to do? Everything outside of extreme/savage is a joke.

Who even asked anything about this shitgame?
/bdog/ barely stays alive we never asked for this, user.

By the time you reach the extreme/savage point, you already invested hundreds of hours into the game. What more do you want you NEET?

Seriously. Games like DAoC or EQ or even FFXI slammed you up against a brick wall if you tried to level all the way by yourself, and only the most dedicated autists pushed through. Everyone else who was an unsociable fuck dropped out.

It's always confused me because you still only need around 2000-3000 people on a server for any MMO in order for it to feel "alive".

How did WoW ever manage more than 10 million when their servers never held more than maybe 10000-12000 people at a time?

Was it just people who played until level 10 and gave up?

No, he was covering his ass. Instead of inspiring this guy, showing him new content to convince him to keep his subscription, he made it seem like the guy was addicted and it was unhealthy and he needed to do other stuff.

Dude, the game doesn't require poopsocking. It requires minimal effort, it's casual as fuck.

Within a few months there's nothing to do.

And of course he agreed -- it was totally a legit question from a legit person, and not some S-E lackey trying to divert criticism.

To each their own, but I hated it. I never felt invested.

Its a final fantasy game. Of course its going to attract shit players. I've played XIV for a while and there are people running end game content that are clueless of basic MMO concepts like stat weights and proper CD usage, etc. In fact at one point they made the game too hard, which just meant people had to actually learn how to play the game, and it nearly killed thier game. Then the devs said we fucked up, we overestimated our community, and then made everything easy again.

People aren't social anymore. Video games are actively working to make online play LESS social.

>2D zelda mmo
>weekly proceduraly generated dungeons with 2-4 different items each dungeon required to beat said dungeon with 1 item being only for optional bonus loot.
>1-4 player party for dungeons with dynamic scaling in hp and extra loot from puzzles
>items can be bought with currency
>running through dungeons is mainly for currency
>max 50 player per server
>reaerved slot subscription
>25 subscriptions open sexond server , 50 third, 100 fourth etc
>currency is used to buy items and costumes or vanity pets
Would you play it?

Personally acquired stories/experiences that result in long lasting friendships and a sense of camaraderie.

Like all those hours weren't a fucking timesink because you were bored.

Well you have to keep in mind they inflate the shit out of those numbers. Asia in particular has a skewed subscription method and makes up all but 2-4 million if you're estimating on the high end. And those people are playing all different time zones over their own schedules so it kinda balances a bit.

Pick up a fucking book sometime you retarded nigger.

>What MMO lets you hit cap, complete the game (except the hardest content) with complete strangers?

>MMO
>complete the game
>complete strangers

>Question: "Hey YoshiP, I love FFXIV, but it's hard to keep playing your game (because of the lack of content) and now I'm taking a break here. Sorry for asking this but is there a way or a reason to keep playing? or anything that can you teach me how to keep my motivation for playing your game?" - A player asking Yoshida during Gamescom

>Answer: Yoshida "It's alright not to play it everyday. Since it's just a game, you can stop forcing yourself if it's hard on you to keep that up. Rather, it'll just pile up unnecessary stress if you limit yourself into playing just that one game since there are so many other games out there. So, do come back and play it to your heart's content when the major patch kicks in, then stop it to play other games before you got burnt out, and then come back for another major patch. This will actually make me happier, and in the end, I think this is the best solution I can answer for keeping your motivation up for the game."

Source: livedoor.blogimg.jp/tekitou_matome-sss/imgs/5/5/552b324e.jpg

He basically told him to not burn himself out by not playing too much. There's only so much you can do playing a single fucking game. No game is designed to last forever. Get your shit together man.

>everyday
nigga look at the calender from time to time

Not a NEET. Work 50 hours a week with two days off.

With that in mind, I got to cap, did the entirety of the MSQ + some raids (Alex, Warring Triad) and quit earlier this month.

Your game is trash, your arguments are horrible ("y-you're a NEET! you ran out of stuff due to lack of a life!"), and your acceptance of a shitty, unimaginative MMO is the reason that this shit is dying.

The thing that causes so many problems between no-lifers and casual players isn't the RPG elements on their own. It's the sheer gear cap. You should have an advantage if you put more time into your character, but the advantage shouldn't be as great as it is in that game.

Top tier items should be RNG, they just shouldn't have as high a power ceiling as they do.

Combat should be gear based or the game would just be a very very shitty action game.

>Within a few months there's nothing to do.
The belief that a single game should last forever is folly. You eventually get tired of doing one thing all the time, no matter what it is.

That you can complete all of FFXIV's content 'within a few months' should not be a mark against the game. Most games can be finished in a single weekend.

why do you hate it so much? do you feel betrayed or something? you're only betrayed if you were stupid enough to not research enough before commiting. And even then you're the one at fault for dumping time in a game expecting something magical that doesn't exist.

I didn't play at release because I didn't like some things about it, I got for $5 on the black friday sale and it's fine, you don't even seem to mention the lack of end game content which is the biggest offender.

The thing with f2p mmos, is they have to make money to survive, if you believe a game can exist with nothing but cosmetics reliably you're living on a fairy land. You either adapt or quit, if you're too autistic that can't enjoy the game unless you are in the top 5-3% of the playerbase you're an idiot who should stop playing mmos to feel superior, go play actual competitive games that require skill not a fucking mmo. If there's some guy spending $100 a week to get better items I don't care, good for him, thanks to them a lot of us can play without paying a sub and never drop a cent in the game.

The thing with mmo players is they feel entitled to things that don't even exist, they want magical land that make no profit, top end graphics, DmC combat, to be a pirate, to make your own brand of clothes and sell them online, to ride real dragons and destroy cities that get rebuild by npc workers in real time, to have onahole controllers attached to the keyboard and all other sorts of things that aren't even remotely possible and then brand the games as shit because of their unrealistic standards.

not even the koreans know

devs listened to player feedback. players don't know what they really want.

So you played the game for 24 hours straight on your weekends and then done everything by the end of the month?