It's been sixteen years, and Perfect Dark is still the greatest FPS game of all time...

It's been sixteen years, and Perfect Dark is still the greatest FPS game of all time. Why is it so hard to make a game featuring sandbox missions with peerless atmosphere and god-tier audiovisual design and god-tier gameplay that can take you hours to finish via extensive trial and error,yet can can be finished in 2-3 minutes once you git gud?

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They really need to release Perfect Dark HD on Steam. The XBLA version. So great but fuck playing it on X360.

>They really need to release Perfect Dark HD on Steam.
Agreed.

Perfect Dark Zero came out and everyone hated it, and that type of FPS was never attempted again. A real shame too, Goldeneye 007, Timesplitters 2 and Agent Under Fire were all great games

youtu.be/xcCuCFWgqoo

What are the chances Playtonic make a successor to PD after Yooka Laylee?

Not much, none of the people involved with PD work at Playtonic.

>Perfect Dark Zero came out and everyone hated it, and that type of FPS was never attempted again.
That's partially because PD: Zero was a weird, awkward game that didn't FLOW like Perfect Dark. The sandbox quality was massively stripped back in favor of something a bit more generic and linear.

Even TimeSplitters 3 abandoned the sandbox design and went for something highly scripted and linear.

>Not much, none of the people involved with PD work at Playtonic.
Well, there's the composer, Grant Kirkhope.

>Perfect Dark Zero came out and everyone hated it
Not really. It sold well and got mostly positive reviews when it was released but most agreed it didn't live up to its predecessor and its aged terribly compared to other shooters from around that time. Its still a shame they just left the ip to rot after Zero instead of redeeming it with a third game when it was still a relevant series.

>tfw Goldeneye-Style FPS is a dead subgenre

>Its still a shame they just left the ip to rot after Zero instead of redeeming it with a third game when it was still a relevant series.
Perfect Dark's next game was supposed to end with Mr Blond stranding Joanna on an alien planet. He'd been undercover as a female teammate the entire game. The Conker's Bad Fur Day lead developer was in charge. Still unclear why they canned it and then fired him.

Remember all the fun you had throwing knives at the guy in the firing range?

I actually liked Perfect Dark Zero, you could choose which guns you wanted before starting a level and the equipment you choose can change the way you navigate through a level, there were also multiple paths, it reminded me of Deus Ex a little.

Trinity Infiltration is also pretty neat, the layout changes on repeat playthoughs.

>sandbox missions

That doesnt mean what you think it means. PD missions were linear, period.

PDZero was trash. Multiplayer was okay when it first came out. Had something interesting but I forgot all about it.

Original PD was so amazing because it was so simple and yet there was so much thought to the level design and weapons. The sequel missed that entirely.

The closest thing we have is immersive sims like Dishonored, but we're likely never going to get an FPS game like Perfect Dark where each level is like a puzzle that you have to figure out without only minimal help, until you can do the levels in your sleep. Until every objective and every nuance of the game is burned into your mind.

That's not just a "game". It's a life-changing experience. And it doesn't require Dark Souls-style "deepest lore, that's why there's no story" bullshit to do it.

I'm going to give it a play. It's been on my backlog for ages.

>It's been sixteen years, and Perfect Dark is still the greatest FPS game of all time
>sandbox missions
nice meme

>That doesnt mean what you think it means. PD missions were linear, period.
How is Chicago linear, for example? You can complete every objective in any order you please. You can even fail objectives like the Taxi, and use alternate methods to clear out the car park.

How is it a meme when the very first level in the game presents you with a multi-level skyscraper where you can tackle the floors in any order, and some objectives span multiple floors? How is that not a "sandbox"?

You can go so far as to completely fail this mission and just kill NPCs for fun, sounds pretty sandbox to me.

When you meet the Present and he asshumes you have some evidence, if you rush to the cockpit, you can save the pilots, and won't have to stabilise the flight path later.

The game could have offered MORE freedom and depth, but what we got was sandbox as shit.

That doesnt make it a sandbox game, jesus christ. By your definition literally overy 3d FPS is now a sandbox game

>sandbox to me.

you're literally retarded

Then what is Mr. game design pro?

Just use 1964 x 9 with the mouse injector, it will make the game seem like it should have actually been made for PC in the first place.

>That doesnt make it a sandbox game, jesus christ. By your definition literally overy 3d FPS is now a sandbox game
What *is* a sandbox game, then? If an FPS game where you roam a level with freely, completing your mission objectives, sometimes in no particular order isn't "sandbox", what is?

Perfect Dark and Turok are the best FPSs that have ever existed and they're both on a Nintendo console.
FPS needs to come back to Nintendo.

The problem is that the mouse injector fucks with the game timings. Also, it still uses Glide64, I believe, which is kinda shit. They really need to upgrade to GLideN64 once it stabilises.

Really the game modes were ahead of their time, but the real winner is the number of unique weapons. Automatics with large magazines were always high tier, but the bouncing grenades, farsight, sentry laptop gun, churchkey style grenade launcher, double-shot shotgun, explosive alien ammuniton, fly-by wire missile launchers, autohoming submachine guns/rocket launchers, poisoned filled knives, tranquilizers, and a bomb that disorients and disarms enemies that isn't a flashbang.
tldr; weapons were very creative and ahead of their time

I think it's sandbox in the same way something like Deus Ex is sandbox. It uses "levels", yes. It also has a linear overall narrative, but it offers a remarkable level of freedom within that context. It's like a series of mini-sandboxes the player proceeds through.

It loosely falls into the immersive sim genre along with Thief and Dishonored and stuff like that.

This game feels so amazing on xbone. You fags dont know what youre missing out on

>What *is* a sandbox game, then?

Hint, if you're playing a game that has levels, with a beginning and an end. It's not a sand box game. All you're doing in Perfect Dark is getting to the finish line.

The K7 Avenger is an example of amazing weapon design. Tight, extremely powerful, small clip, and a god-tier reload animation with a truly satisfying smack of the magazine being slammed into place.

>Hint, if you're playing a game that has levels, with a beginning and an end. It's not a sand box game.
Is Assassin's Creed a sandbox game, then? Because it has clearly defined "levels", and a clearly defined goal for each "level", with subgoals to reach that goal that you can do in any order.

best FPS ever. tied with Timesplitters 2 and Half Life

>what IS sandbox? Me too dumb

>Is Assassin's Creed a sandbox game, then?
>"Ha, I'll compare a game where you free roam around a city to a linear FPS! That will surely secure my argument!"

It's a good game but by no means the greatest FPS. you must be a consolefag who's only played a handful of console FPS to say that.

>All you're doing in Perfect Dark is getting to the finish line.
Technically, you're completing tasks. You don't just go from A to B to C. It's not Halo. Take the Air Base mission. There are actually two routes onto the plane, and a number of objectives before you board the plane including finding a way to get your weapons past scanning, shut down the security systems, and also get a copy of some documents from a safe. So you complete these tasks in the order of your choosing and then make your way to one of two main entrances to the plane, which changes your start position on the next mission. During this mission, where you can complete tasks out of order, you have an opportunity to lower a hoverbike into the cargo bay, which will make it available when the plane crashes, which leads to a mission in the snow, with your hoverbike, where you have a huge snowy landscape to explore and several objectives you can complete in any order.

>Perfect Dark
>the greatest FPS game of all time.
>Has the Farsight

If you need to turn off features to make your game playable in multiplayer, it's not good.

name some better FPS then, you fucking tasteless faggot

>It's a good game but by no means the greatest FPS. you must be a consolefag who's only played a handful of console FPS to say that.
Name an FPS game on PC that is better. And by "better" is has to feature everything Perfect dark features, from disarming enemies who surrender sometimes to elaborate levels and also god-tier gunplay, music, general audio design, and so on. If your game doesn't let me punch enemies to take their firearms, it's a bad FPS game.

Half Life, Duke, System Shock/2, Jedi Outcast, and control wise literally any PC FPS.

Nice shitposting bait though, really brings out the consolefag in you.

The Far Sight is great in MP, though. Rareware understood the key truth of game design, which is "fuck balancing, and fuck the player."

Seriously. Look at Perfect Dark's first mission. You escort the Datadyne employee to open a locked computer for you. If you don't immediately knock him out after he unlocks it, he'll wipe the files you're looking for. That's a monumental "fuck you" to the player. There's no way for a first time player to predict that. And that's what makes Rareware's stuff so incredible.

It's not a sandbox. It's objective specific FPS. Halo and and the like you just have to wander through and not die. Sometimes you have to kill a specific enemy or all enemies. But PD isn't a sandbox. And this is coming from someone who loves the game

>Half Life
HL was a massive step back from even GoldenEye. Linear FPS with stiff gunplay and zero enemy hit reactions.
>System Shock/2
The actual FPS mechanics in those games are fucking dismal. Good games, sure, but sucky FPS games. Same goes for Deus Ex.

Those don't match his description though.

i got banjo 2 and perfect dark the same year for christmas

rare was so incredible back then, everything they made was pure magic and they were technical wizards too. legendary company right there

Fuck you beat me to it. Very succinct though good stuff you beautiful bastard

>There's no way for a first time player to predict that.

I guess you like games like "I Want to be the Guy"

The more unpredictable instant lose traps, the better right?

>rare was so incredible back then, everything they made was pure magic and they were technical wizards too. legendary company right there
Funny thing is, one of the reasons Free Radical split with Rare was because they kept having disagreements over performance. Free Radical targeted 60fps with their TimeSplitters games, while Rareware were happy to keep adding features until their games were running in the teens.

Fuck off. You can choose the weapon layouts. Besides learning to strafe with the C buttons and try and avoid some sniper with a chip on their shoulder is awesome.

>I have never played SS or half life
ok consolefag

Sorry friendo but No One Lives Forever came out that same year and it's an even better game.

well thats where free radical was right. banjo 2 ran like shit. even 30fps is fine but the constant drops into 20s and under, no way.

That's objectively not good game design.

Perfect Dark's levels are literally 3 minutes long if you know what you're doing. The entire core of the game is brutal trial and error until you can complete the mission flawlessly. It's like that Tom Cruise movie where he repeats the same mission over and over in a time loop.

Control-wise. Jesus you sound like a faggot. Half life is awesome yes. System shock. Yep for sure. Goldeneye and PD have dated as fuck controls, but they're still good because of ease of control with the shitty autoaim. I would still rather play PD over Deus Ex. Good story to Deus Ex, but fuck me that shit could dry out a vagina quicker than the Sahara.

Shit like this is why Perfect Dark is pretty bad.

The objectives were more strightforward than Goldeneye though.

Perfect Dark is really all about the multiplayer. There really isn't anything like it and I still play play 4 player splitscreen frequently.

>That's objectively not good game design.
Why? It's the exact same design principle used in games like Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker.

You also have to read the briefing. It makes a hige difference. You guys talk about the depth of bullshit, but when instructions are given you fags complain that it should be done a different way

>I prefer gimped controls because I'm a consolefag
Almost no one prefers PD to DX except for consolefags, 99% of which have never played Deus Ex.

You're not helping your argument.

>Duke
>Jedi Outcast
>better than Perfect Dark

Perfect Dark has the exact same control scheme as Turok, which in turn is just a mirrored version of dual analogue controls. (Turok 2 invented weapon wheels. Fun fact.)

Its literally the same setup as a KB+M only using a thumb stick is less accurate but the game has auto aim to accommodate, like Doom.

>You're not helping your argument.
You do realise Peace Walker is a beloved game that is widely considered to be possibly the best game in the entire series, right?

>but the game has auto aim to accommodate, like Doom.
Technically, the game reduces the auto-aim to basically nothing on Perfect Agent.

It's literally in no way like KB+M because the game relies on one stick as opposed to a fucking keyboard and mouse.
>defending auto aim with a gimped controller
stop, it's embarrassing.

Holy shit, play some Quake or Unreal. You could not have made a shittier more dated list of FPS games without Wolfenstein

Again, listing shit games isn't helping your argument

Are you seriously arguing that Deus Ex has good combat? Its combat was hated in 2000, and it's still hated today. The only defense we ever came up with was "B-B-But the game is trying to discourage you from playing it like an FPS game!"

Perfect Dark, meanwhile, remains one of the zeniths for good-feeling gunplay and hit feedback.

Analog aim + digital movement. Which control scheme did I just describe?

shitty console controls

>It's literally in no way like KB+M because the game relies on one stick as opposed to a fucking keyboard and mouse.
You move with the C-buttons, aim with the stick. The only problem is the N64 analogue stick was a bit iffy. But otherwise, the arguments against this scheme such as "muh analogue movement" also apply to mouse and keyboard.

I play on PC too you bitch. There's 2 advantages to Pc over console. First, the ease of view. Mouse does an awesome job of letting see everything. Second, hotkeying the secondary functions for ease of use. That's IT. If youmre good at basketball, be good at basketball. Good for you. If someone is good at hockey, they're good at hockey. Apples and oranges.
PS the ping and hitboxes on PC are sometimes too goddamn much. Get stuck with a BR and you know what I mean

Are you seriously arguing that shitty console controls are good?

>lists old games
retard alert

>Turok 2 invented weapon wheels. Fun fact.
>what is secret of mana

>Are you seriously arguing that shitty console controls are good?
What exactly is wrong with Perfect Dark's controls?

>inb4 someone says perfect dark and goldeneye "aged like milk" and when asked why the only thing they said is muh controls

The controls aren't shit, you are

Honestly, if you're not bad at games once you master the controls it gives the most amount of control in any console fps and actually gives pc a rub for its tummy

>console aiming is the same as mouse aiming
This is it. The ultimate stupidity of consolefags. I love the copious amounts of bad spelling and fucked grammar, it's the cherry on top of the retard pie.

Unlike those games you listed they are still good. Also unlike any of those games you listed they were good at one point in time.

>>what is secret of mana
Not a weapon wheel, for a start.

You mouse and aim with the same stick, and controls sticks are shit for aiming. I get it, you're an ignorant consolefag. Try playing a PC FPS.

>Goldeneye-Style FPS
What characterizes this subgenre?

bait

autoaim

>You mouse and aim with the same stick
This is incorrect, though. You change the control scheme to 1.2, and you move with the C-buttons and aim with the stick, just like all those Dreamcast FPS games.
>and controls sticks are shit for aiming.
Right.
>I get it, you're an ignorant consolefag.
PC gamer, actually.

Shitty PC controls too then.

>no argument as to how its different
Amazing argumentative skills. You just blow in from r/PCmasterrace?

I prefer TimeSplitters 2 & 3
youtube.com/watch?v=3SF1yMNJ38k

That's why I said to use the X9 version, it's a fan update made to improve the original. Not only is it more stable but it's also more optimized and has better ROM compatibility. You can even use it on the South Park fps game just fine after some controller fuckery.

FPS games directly inspired by Mario 64, where the point of the game is to complete a series of realistic objectives in a sandbox-ish level. You're not constantly being restricted. Doors aren't always locking behind you. And you don't have to do the objectives in a linear order.

Why don't you just get some taste you fucking shit savoring pleb

>I'm a "pc gamer" and play with a controller
why bother lying? you've never used a keyboard and mouse. the fact that you compare a shitty control stick to a mouse proves this.

see above.

>autoaiming console FPS
>"god-tier gunplay"
you failed, and have the retake the class.

That's not an argument you dumb fucker. I play FPS games mostly on PC anyway so you're even wrong in that aspect.

My problem with TimeSplitters 2/3 is non-lethal play was almost impossible. Perfect Dark gave you a lot of freedom. TS forces you to shooty, shooty, bang, bang, and that really annoys me. Great games, though.

>>autoaiming console FPS
Auto-aim is optional, and borderline non-existent on Perfect Agent. How do people not know this?

so is payday 2 goldeneye style