La Mulana

How do you feel about this game? I just got it and I'll very likely have fun with it either way knowing what I know having played the games that inspired it but I'm curious for your opinion anyway.

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maze of galious controls inside of a puzzle inside of a riddle inside of a puzzle and then you are the la-mulana

I fell off a bunch of things, beat like four bosses, talked to some sleepy bitch a few times, couldn't figure out where to go and than gave up forever.

8/10 can't wait for the sequel

To elaborate I played Maze of Galious 2 years ago and it was fun and a good concept with room to build upon; this game sounds like just that. Also other Konami games that inspired it atmospherically, like King's Valley 2, King Kong 2 (thankfully little to do with the movie) and Treasure of Usas (extremely fucking charming game).

What was great about Galious was the sense of adventure, difficulty and lack of hand-holding - what was annoying was that the items you collected had really obscure uses barely related to what the items themselves were so you had to have an "items and their effects" list on-hand at all times. Ex. you got... I dunno, a bunch of candles that made you transparent to ghosts or some bizarre shit (not a direct example but this is kind of how weird it was)

Does La Mulana also do this?

>check Metacritic user reviews for all the versions
>PCfags are the one single demographic on the site that hates it because "you can't control your jumps in mid-air and that's artificial difficulty!!"

It's not like not being able to alter your course mid-jump is nonsensical since, well, jumps don't work that way in real life either. And god damn so many fantastic platform games have levels designed with planning your jumps based on that in mind. The old Castlevanias and Super Ghouls n' Ghosts spring to mind.
see
Also, which one has more "fuck it I'll just check a guide" puzzles? I didn't mind it much in Galious but I'm curious if this is an improvement in that regard.

I like the original better.

>complain about PCfags
>about a game that's a love letter to a home computer

I like it but its WAY to cryptic at times, I tried to beat it without checking any guide and it was fucking aweful, I spent hours upon hours checking the same areas over and over and getting into places where I wasnt supposed to beat yet

I didn't like every change the remake made but as a whole I greatly support it.
The only thing I really didn't like was the music sound quality, I actually prefer the originals.

And one quality of life improvement they failed to add was making sure to tell the player what they are unlocking when defeating a boss.

You mean Galious? How so?

And do you still find this worthwhile regardless?

OH WAIT you mean the pre-remake one

Did they change anything aside from the graphics and if so can you revert to the original version? Can you switch graphics mid-gameplay like in the Monkey Island remake or the fan PC port of Galious?

Original version was amazing, but really cryptic, so I relied on a guide.

When the remake was announced in 2007, I promised myself that I would beat it without a guide. It was painful yet extremely rewarding, and I eagerly await the sequel.

No, I mean the original.

see

Bullshit cryptic puzzles and shitty controls.
Shitty game that hipster tryhards pretend to like.

I'm a "PCfag" in that the only games I even bought for years were on the PC. I'm talking about a sub-set of modern anglosphere PC gamers with little knowledge of other genres beyond stereotypical "pc mustard kart racer" ones.

The type of people who buy an arcade/arcade-inspired game off Steam, reach the credits by continue-spamming on easy mode and then write/record a review complaining about the short "campaign". Then get upvotes by multiple people.

The PC is great but the "pc gamer culture" into things like Mount & Blade and Counter Strike tends not to mesh very well with certain brands of Japanese design.

>tfw La Mulana 2 didn't get enough Kickstarter money to be ported to the Wii
Goddamn it. I wanted to be able to play it on the same system I used to play the original. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal.

Aside from mods, I don't think you can switch graphics on the fly. The GoG version comes with an original music mod, though.

The original and the remake play completely differently from each other, the original being more stiff and deliberate.

Some of the bosses are different, most of the minibosses are jokes, there's a lot more collectables (most useless, referencing old MSX games), some puzzles were simplified, and a few minigames are present that didn't make it to the remake. Mulbruk wasn't even in the original version, and you cannot wear your prize from Hell Temple.

In that case I'll just check a guide when I feel that I really need it.

it'd be better with a cute character i m h o

I like Riven a lot better. The platforming and combat and stuff didn't seem very good so it was mostly puzzles, but I think the puzzles were worse. Overall it's decent htough.

I hate seeing vids that defend this game saying you don't need a guide, but even their descriptions on finding things out are so vague.

>The original and the remake play completely differently from each other, the original being more stiff and deliberate.
Fuckin lol the controls are more casual friendly compared to the original and people still complain about "horrible controls unplayable piece of shit!!!"

I found absolutely nothing wrong with how Galious controlled. Unless controls are outright unresponsive I tend to associate these complaints with just... being bad at the game. There is absolutely no reason why a game SHOULD allow you to control your jump momentum in mid-air and some types of mechanics absolutely do not work with it.

I beat La-Mulana without a guide. Took like a week.
The only thing that I thought pushed the boundaries of what was a puzzle was the going into a vase part.

I liked the combat & platforming in what little I played of the original Mulana and of Galious (played more of the latter) - very simple but effective. Some of the boss battles in Mulana look really cool too.

For those who don't want to deal with La-Mulana's difficulty but want an archaeologist Metroidvania, try this game. I bought it in the sale and it's a lot of fun.

People constantly rave about it, but having recently finished it with almost everything done except for Hell which I gave up on about halfway through, I really don't like it.
The puzzles are incredibly cryptic, which in itself is fine, but what's not fine is how solving puzzles will give you a jingle and change one element in a different area, with no indication of what was changed or where. This makes exploring the game world a chore where every time you make a small amount of progress you're then left to wander around the rest of your unlocked map again until you find something that's different. I know one part that particularly annoyed me was when getting the mantras that there's one that was behind a wall which you either had to break with a bomb or drop a weight on a pedestal next to it to open, but you can't break it or use the pedestal until activating something else in a different area first. (It's definitely one of those two, but I can't remember which. It was the one in the other section of the lava cavern accessed from the other section of the Cchamber of Extinction.) The entire game is full of arbitrary shit like this, which is entirely to its detriment.
The combat I find works well for small enemies, but is exceptionally poor for bosses, as bosses will hurt you more from contact damage than anything else while having small hittable areas that you usually need to jump to hit, and often questionable contact hitboxes. Baphomet's second phase was my biggest grievance with this.

I really wanted to like it; the art is solid, there are loads of items to get which feels rewarding, when you're able to progress it's fun and satisfying, and the music is great, but there's far too much time spent on "well where the fuck do I go now" unless you're either a savant capable of following the dev's every thought process or using a guide, which just sucks the fun out of the game.
Also, having a missable Sacred Orb in the Dimensional Corridor is ass.

>Did they change anything aside from the graphics
Yes
>and if so can you revert to the original version?
No
>Can you switch graphics mid-gameplay like in the Monkey Island remake or the fan PC port of Galious?
See above

The entire game has been redesigned to eliminate the fact that it's a giant MSX reference, and that includes replacing the MSX rom mechanics. The controls have been changed to make them feel smoother than the MSX emulating design that they originally went for, which makes them easier to use. There've been redesigns to basically every area and puzzle, and any time that these can be described as "extensive" it results in them being easier. As a counter to this, the new one has more involved fighting (as the original went for the limited feel of an MSX game with barely moving bosses.) They cut out the Maze of Galious area, and replaced it with the first game's Guidance Gate.

Also, because Hell Temple was DLC, they redesigned it to severely fuck up the day of anyone who remembers any of the original's tricks.

I'm fine with the original's controls, don't get me wrong, but it's a lot different than what most people are used to, and much more different if comparing the original to the remake.

Seconding this. It's available for free in Japanese if you don't give a shit about the plot.

hey

>jumps don't work that way in real life
I agree that the jump mechanics are fine but using reality as an argument in video games is always fucking retarded.

OP here I love Pharaoh Rebirth but please make sure you never save before the fraking hotel boss, there's a save file-ruining bug that might fuck you up and Krobon has yet to fix.

Also, DON'T get 100% item completion before beating the final boss, you'll be way too over-powered otherwise. Just go through the game normally and start on Hard mode.

Not a fantastic game but definitely a very good one. Fun platforming, exploration & combat, good script with a good, naturally-flowing translation, charming characters with fun banter, great sprite work.

Also, you can get drunk and then drive over birds and you get a fucking Jojo stand youtube.com/watch?v=AIVt94BZjXo

Action Mogura also from Krobon is totally free and good, far more action-oriented.

Well think of it this way: why is not getting to control your jumps in mid-air more ok than, say, a game that homes your character into spikes whenever you jump? Both increase difficulty but one is not vaguely believable & feels random.

I got it but had to refund it because the entire game was running at like 30% intended speed. Did they fix it?

Glad that bug didn't affect me. I think I did save before that boss.

I've done everything except the casino level, now trying to figure out what item allows me to enter the one tile high spaces that are up off the ground.

Also, damn that mine cart level. I'll never get all the items on the course.

...

>Also, damn that mine cart level. I'll never get all the items on the course.
I did; it was probably the least technically well-designed part of the game given the amount of memorization required but it was still really fun.
I have no fucking idea, I never had the problem.

If you beat it without looking a guide on your first playthrough, original and remake as one, I call bullshit

Anyone been paying attention to the La-Mulana speed running scene? A new grapple claw glitch has been found that allows you to clip into the floor near right-side walls.

youtube.com/watch?v=xfpEEm23Gig&t=10m35s

First use is at 10:35.

Control limitations have to make sense. Not moving around during jumps is not illogical, is what I'm saying, in fact it's believable. And what is logic and what is "believable" based on? The real world.

This isn't as simple as "durrhurr it's a platform game not real life" don't be willfully dense.

I get lost every time I play it. But I still enjoy it.

not the guy you're arguing with but you are pretty fucking laughable right now lmao

Explain how I'm wrong.

>This isn't as simple as "durrhurr it's a platform game not real life" don't be willfully dense.
It really is. The only reasoning anyone needs is "the game controls that way because that's how the dev decided it should control for the gameplay experience they wanted to deliver". Anything else is hogwash, especially your other bullshit post about there being no reason for other games to allow changing movement direction in the air as though there shouldn't be different kinds of platformers with different styles of gameplay.

>I have no fucking idea, I never had the problem.
Just looked at the forums and news posts, and it doesn't seem that they've done any work on fixing issues since before I refunded it. Shame.

>especially your other bullshit post about there being no reason for other games to allow changing movement direction in the air
Except I never said this you "muh mspaint-ownage" dipshit. I simply said that NOT allowing you to do it is not illogical.

>Except I never said this
>There is absolutely no reason why a game SHOULD allow you to control your jump momentum in mid-air

Don't even pretend that isn't you, your style of writing is extremely obvious.

The jumping is far more forgiving than people give it credit for. Most NES games didn't allow you to change speed mid-jump at all. In La-Mulana, you may be stuck going forward after jumping, but at least you can change your speed and where you land by pressing left or right.

Okay, bad wording on my part; I should have said "should no matter what" and not just "should".

No, I don't think games that let you control your jumps in mid-air are bad. I don't think Mario and Sonic are cancerous garbage.

I still don't know what was wrong with my initial statement that you got asshurt over

>Okay, bad wording on my part; I should have said "should should" and not just "should".
That doesn't even make sense.
>I still don't know what was wrong with my initial statement that you got asshurt over
Because arguing for realism in video games defining the mechanics is fucking retarded.

>Okay, bad wording on my part; I should have said "should no matter what" and not just "should".
Okay, that actually makes sense. But it's still a stupid argument in the first place since the type of jump mechanics in place are simply down to what the developer decides is best for the game they're making.

People who don't understand game design and don't think about what a game was trying to achieve with its mechanics love to scream "bad controls", "bad camera", etc every time that respective element of the game is perfectly logical, yet feels different from what they're used to. Bonus points if the game is hard and they can blame not learning the game's specific mechanics on "horrible design".

Both stupidly good and stupidly hard. I still can't figure out how to get into the True Shrine of the Mother. There's something to do with medicine and mantras though, I understand that much.

Got any videos of glitchless runs? The same guy you linked had a Hell run where he skips a bunch of it, and the next run I found was this faggot: youtube.com/watch?v=C42ICi3Z3mo

>bad camera
Is there an example of a game that has a logical-but-labelled-as-bad camera?

>But it's still a stupid argument in the first place since the type of jump mechanics in place are simply down to what the developer decides is best for the game they're making.
This is a huge slippery slope, son. Some decisions are just retarded and there's a difference between REALISTIC and BELIEVABLE. Believable things just need to have a certain level of connection to reality.

My point is there is such thing as controls that are illogical and stupid and bad and just saying "it's muh vision" doesn't justify it. While not controlling your jumps is very easily justifiable and believable.

That music automatically makes me a little angry even though it's been years since I went through Hell Temple.

God Hand has one of the best cameras I've ever seen in any game and it got torn apart for it, even by fans ("I like it DESPITE the horrible camera")

Souls.

I don't know of anyone who does glitchless runs for LM. None on Speedrun.com either.

I do know that the guy who discovered the new grapple claw glitch is going to be playing it at AGDQ.

How fucking asinine. Controls being good or bad has nothing to do with realism or not. I give up.

Oh and, some other examples:

1. Monster Hunter. There's no reason why the game NEEDS to have lock-on.

2. The first Gungrave game, but I know most people here hate it and cum over the boring ass anime instead so this won't win me any favors

>there's a difference between REALISTIC and BELIEVABLE.

things need to have a connection to reality to be believable. it's why animators learn the laws of physics before animating stylized over-the-top motion, why people draw from reality to master principles that they then apply to their stylized works.

>Monster Hunter
>Good camera
Yes, let's completely ignore that the camera completely shits itself every time you fight a medium-sized or bigger monster that gets into the camera.

This is obviously just some young twenty-something year old hipster who's just getting into art and wants to espouse about whatever bullshit has wandered it's way into his mouth recently, not much you can do to reason with those sorts

I only played Tri and never had this problem, in fact I'm not sure what you mean

I never played Tri, but in 4U and X the camera absolutely goes to shit any time the monster moves into it, because the camera then tries to move away to stop from clipping through the monster. For Najarala winding around you the camera attempts to compensate for this by zooming out and raising its angle, but it still often fails, and for any monster crossing through where the camera "is", it causes the camera to either spaz the fuck out trying to move out of the way, or the camera gets locked in place not allowing you to see shit and you have to reset it with the reset / lock button because whenever that happens it becomes near uncontrollable with the stick / nub.

Yeah sorry can't defend those lol.

I did think the first PS2 game had shit controls but I only played 1 and Tri. I liked Tri.

bump for good game

It's probably my favorite game of its kind. Can't wait for the 2nd one.

Will this ever be released?
It was originally slated for 2015. Then 2016, but an earthquake destroyed one of the dev's homes.

It's cursed

Pretty sure it's soon. I think they said it was pretty much content complete?

I just bought it and I wandered around the starting area for a few minutes before dying. What am I supposed to do?

Also, I'm pressing every single key but I can't read the signs or open that chest.

The entire game is designed around the assumption that the jumping mechanics work the way they do. The reasons why will make sense later in the game.

Did you
>Talk to the elder
>Watch the Tutorial video
If not, then do so. Also, keep note of what you're told on a notepad or something, you'll want to write down goddamn near everything and anything you'll come across.

Read the manual. The game will make you earn every single basic thing.

Where do you read updates from the devs? Do they have a blog that is restricted to supporters or something?

>1:13

Don't they tell you that ingame? Hell, even if they don't, if the room isn't protected by those eyes you should be hitting fucking everything anyways.

Probably Kickstarter's backer only shit.

You seriously didn't know you could break that?

It's I'm not a backer, so I'm just running off of what I've been told.

Not that I can recall.

No, I only referred to guides when I got stuck.

That's not even something you need a guide for though.

Yes, but the original La Mulana moreso, with all the MSX roms you can collect. You can even play parody versions of Gradius in the original.

YOU LOOKED, JUNKER