Genocide route is retarded and makes no sense. Chara is retarded

Genocide route is retarded and makes no sense. Chara is retarded.

desu if chara was dead and stayed dead it would have made more sense

dead game and a dead fandom to boot
kys ya manlet nerd

Exactly.

i killed my friends cause it's so random xd

So what was xer problem?

There should have been some sort of indication that Chara was influencing/taking over Frisk when Frisk landed on the flowerbed in the very beginning of the game. Even a simple textbox that made a cryptic mention of it would have sufficed.

To be fair, there's no logic to either routes.
With Pacifist, there's no reason you should be sparing these people when they've been trying to kill you.
With Genocide, you have no reason to kill everyone if they aren't going out of their way to hurt you.

>this meme

Did you actually play the game or are you a markov chain bot on your father's side?

As a result, Neutral's the only route that fucking works.

Chara shit comes out of nowhere. How is she influencing anything? How is she not dead? Sans says 'we have detected timeline jumping' etc. Who's we? I'm assuming Sans/Alphys/or something. Etc. There's probably a bunch of secret Easter egg stuff I missed that explains stuff.

did you just assume charas gender? wtf

Chara doesn't do anything until you start a genocide playthrough. The only one influencing Frisk is the player.

I only played the neutral and peaceful routes. who the fuck is chara?

kys newfag

shes not retarded shes pure
i love her

It's a good thing that the fandom died though, now people can try to have actual discussions about the game.

The canon name of the fallen child

>not playing Genocide

Better start playing user, the boss fights are well worth it.

The one on the right

Chara is retarded
>Get to name Chara, indicating she's essentially a stand-in for you
>Frisk is implied to be controlled by something once you start killing, supposedly indicating Chara or your desire to level up
>Whole point of Genocide route is to make you feel like shit for seeing monsters as EXP and nothing else, but then they fuck that message up by making Chara an actual character instead of just being a stand-in for you

It doesn't work. What's worse is that Chara is one of those characters autists draw the most fanart of for some reason.

NO STOP SHES NOT RETARDED I LOVE HER FUCK OFF

Well are they trying to fucking kill you or not? You just contradicted yourself.

To be fair, you're not really meant to do the genocide route. The game is intentionally made so that grinding out all the enemies is tedious, the bosses are frustrating, and the ending is underwhelming. The overwhelming feeling of disappointment is kinda what Fox was going for with that ending.

y-you too

>Undying and Sans
>the two best boss fights in the game solely because they actually have a challenge
>frustrating
I mean, if you're a scrub, sure. Not to mention they aren't impossible to lose against unlike Asriel and Omega Flowey.

Shouldnt have pulled any of that chara shit for genocide, really.
Also shouldnt have corrupted your save like that.
Point of the game was that you can always reset and fix things. So why pull this crap after doing genocide once?

I'm speaking narratively, they're always hostile. In Pacifist, you give them a chance to show their hostility, Genocide not so much.

please stop making undertale threads.

the game is dead and its never coming back.

It wasn't really disappointing though, it was forced to have a narrative conclusion just because, even if it didn't make sense. The disappointing ending would just be if once you killed everything that was it. You're stuck behind the barrier with no way to progress and nothing to do in the empty world you've created. Would still work as a criticism of typical RPGs as well, since in most RPGs ultimately you grind xp and items to get to the end, and you've just played in the most boring way possible by grinding out every possible encounter.

>With Pacifist, there's no reason you should be sparing these people when they've been trying to kill you.
I really hated the moral concepts this game tried to push. It's saying not to defend yourself against bad people.

>people keep making threads for a game so they can talk about it
>game is dead

Gee user.

Well I mean you could sit there and let them attack you, then you can claim self defense.

Maybe you should actually play the game.

You play the self-defense card, they play the "I didn't know that was a human, I've never seen one before!" card.

>only way to win is to never play

That would be the neutral route, which would be the one that makes the most sense. You kill the ones that try to kill you in self defense and that's that.

The thing with pacifist is that you learn that saving/reloading is considered part of the in-game lore. It's fine to fight back in self-defense, but if you have the power to turn back time, no killing you do can be justified as self-defense. You can just keep trying to settle things peacefully until you find the "right" solution because there is no need to kill due to you never being in true danger. This is what you're supposed to figure out.

What if I claimed they all attacked me?

Eh, I tried to justify it but honestly I've got nothing.
The real best way to end the Genocide route is "sparing" Sans and quitting. Game ends on a bittersweet tone, no chara fuckery, and you still get to do the best boss fights in the game.

You literally have god powers and by retrying you can find out that most of the monsters underground are actually nice, dont truly want to kill you or only want to kill you because they are trapped underground, making it a non-personal issue.

The first play through should naturally end up being neutral. Acting in self defense most of the time will lead to that. It wont lead to pacifist because you're not pacifistic at all and it wont lead to genocide because you'd have to actually go out of your way to hunt down all monsters and actually commit genocide.
Thats the "realistic" ending. But lets not forget that you have magical powers that allow you to reset the universe as often as you like, so a realistic outcome doesnt have to apply at all.

After neutral you can do whatever. The game gives you the option. You're in Floweys situation, just not as fucked. So you can reset and do whatever. The game turns into groundhog day.
Either you kill everything to see what happens or you save everybody to give everybody a happy end.
Or do both. Or do neither and just stop after your first run. Your choice really.

>game subtly implies that wanting a videogamey product with challenge is bad because it reinforce murderous patriarchial attitudes and rape culture
>I'm supposed to applaud it when it gives me final bosses that are glorified cutscenes

This wil never not piss me off.

>rape culture
Who gets raped in Undertale?

This

The genocide run would be less justified and/or more impactful if there was some method to fight Undying and Sans in Neutral/Pacifist.

As somebody who liked Undertale, that's honestly a good thing for everybody.

Btw, excited for Sanic Mania?

I did play the game, so fuck you. Fuck every single person who creates this defense mechanism of "if you criticize a game that I like, you didn't play it".

Genocide route is a carrot on a stick which is supposed to be a stark antithesis to someone being a "Good person" ingame or being a completionist.

The whole reason the Genocide route attempts to corrupt your playthrough, by first deleting it, and then changing it, is to make the player understand what they did was wrong by the game's rules. The game gave you the option to opt out of it constantly, while always suggesting the kinder path. If you ignore literally all of that and make the conscious choice to be a dick, then the game punishes you.

Chara is just there to be some sort of metaphor for completionism, and that any completed game should be deleted.

>With Pacifist, there's no reason you should be sparing these people when they've been trying to kill you.
You can save and reset. Because of this, you know you are safe and have many methods of getting by. Not killing is better than killing, so if you can get by without killing, its your responsibility to do that

Not everything has an agenda, you fucking faggot

You didnt play it though. Either that or you have the understanding of a fifth grader.
Thats not truly better though.

Its not that. Its that the game doesn't push any morality on you beyond that you should accept responsibility for your actions, and it outright tells you at endgame that self-defense is completely fair and justifiable, however because you have to ability to save and reload, that's not a moral stance you can take. It outright says these words. It doesn't tell you that self-defense is wrong, hence why the user assumed you hadn't played the game. Get off your high horse

There is no such agenda and the final boss was Asgore. The Asriel stuff was to complete the plot, however its better to experience the plot directly through gameplay rather than through a cutscene.

You'd be correct if the main character had any character to speak of, but they don't because they're an analog for the player.

This
Toby isn't an SJW and its very clear by his demeanor that he wasn't out to push an agenda with Undertale
He made it inoffensive because he knows that a great deal of the people who already know him (the Homestuck fandom) have overlap with Tumblr and their hypersensitivity, but nothing in the game pushes any sort of agenda at all
>inb4 HURR DURR GAYS
There's one gay couple that exists solely for a joke and then one other that exists as a half-joke

>murderous patriarchial attitudes and rape culture
Where the hell are you people getting these ideas?

You can take whatever moral stance you want.
The game only truly judges you for genocide, which is obvious, but even Sans acknowledges that you only do it because you can and that you might reset right after again.
Only the Chara shit is hamfisted as fuck.

If you play neutral you could just end after that and thats fine. The neutral ending is truly neutral. Monsters are free, some of them died, some of them survived. You are free too and you can do whatever.
Its not even a bad ending.

People who think that the game actively forces morals on you outside of "dont be hitler" are retarded.

It's not "self defense" if you can go back in time every time you die. The game literally tells you that you have the power to become above literally ANYONE in the world, a kind of god in your own right, and that you have a responsibility to use it for good.

Sans never outright hates you for killing anyone except his brother, but killing people and then not going back when you realize you can do better is you making the conscious decision to do so. You, the player, know you can just remake the game and do it without dying or killing. There is no self defense if there is no fear of harm.

>Monsters are free
They are literally less free than they were before

Man, I really like this game. The music was on point, I liked a lot of the characters a lot more than I thought I was going to and some of the humor actually cracked me up. To top it all off, in the end you find out that nihilism was the answer all along.

Not everything has to do with sjws, user.

Yeah, it's kind of overrated by the fandom but it was a fun game nonetheless if you're not an overthinking autist like most of Sup Forums. Fuck Alphys though. Alphys almost made me drop that game.

FUCK YOU TUMBLRTALE FAGGOT, GET YOUR SHITTY GAME OFF MY VIDEO GAMES BOARD

It doesn't imply either of those things, it's just subversive that the NPCs in the game are aware of what you're trying to do and how you're doing it, that doesn't have anything to do with patriarchy or rape culture, in fact the game straight up tells you you're doing a good thing by killing MONSTERS

I might've went a little over, but my main point stands:the game really shouldn't have been so ashamed to be a video game. Every part of it screamed "please don't be frightened by problematic videogamey stuff like challenging boss fights. We'll make everything easier, we promise!" And as a result, I can count a minimum of 5 bosses that you cannot lose to (Toriel, Papyrus, Asriel, Omega Flowey, and pretty much every Metatton fight before his final appearance), and out of those 5, you're not even allowed to try and kill yourself, since the game will rescue you anyway, Toriel being the only exception. And then of course you have the other bosses who slow down majorly and try to be super safe for the kids (Asgore, for example, will do less and less damage as you take more damage, and can have his defense and attack weakened considerably through no effort). THIS is supposed to be a video game? I feel like I'm watching a damn movie that freezes every 5 seconds, which requires me to press a button on my remote. That's the extent of interaction I feel. I would've preferred more actual hard bosses like Undyne the Undying, Sans, and shoot, a whole bunch of fanbosses who were even better, like Metatton Neo 2.0, or Red.

I would've lost literally nothing from this game if I just watched a let's play of it on youtube.

>character that is joseph mengele except a weeb gets no comeuppance in the end
>can't even be killed on a genocide run
Toby fucked up with not making her an optional fight

user, shush

You have no actual responsibility.
Its all up to you how you want to handle it.

You could always say that some of the monsters deserve it because they actually had the intent to kill you.
Or take out Asgore for being a piece of shit.
You have these powers but you dont have to do SHIT with them.
Its not what I would do, but its still just something I'd do out of my own goodwill.


You are right. I forgot that bit of the neutral ending. Only the protagonist benefits from it.

You can lose to Toriel and Omega Flowey. Dunno about Papyrus since I never tried to die there

You can lose to Papyrus, but it isn't a real fail-state, he just puts you in a shed, and you can attempt two more times I think, before you basically get a free pass, for what it's worth, it fits with his character.

I'm just saying that the only character in the ENTIRE game who says you have a responsibility to do good is Sans, who is conversely the only character in the ENTIRE game who knows you can even do it, other than Flowey, who glorifies using it for your own gain.

Sans just acts as a very realistic character, who is aware of your power, but is unable to force you to do it at all. So he just suggests for you to do the right thing, and even if you don't, he wont hold it against you so long as you dont use it to intentionally kill everyone.

His requests are very reasonable, and is in no way attempting to force or guilt trip you. He's simply telling you that you killing monsters isn't out of self defense because you know you can just load anyway. Killing them "Because they attacked you" with the past tense knowledge of knowing you can just reload if they WERE to kill you is just killing them out of revenge. Which, once again, Sans isn't trying to guilt trip you for, but is instead trying to make you understand that it's not ACTUALLY self defense.

Also Asgore's attacks do not do less damage as you take more; in fact, his attacks become faster over time. You are correct that you can lower his stats, however this only occurs if you have not killed anyone else, otherwise lowering his stats does not work.

samefag

Yeah, she was pretty much the worst character. The game did a pretty good job of making most of the characters, even minor npc's endearing in some way. Alphys just came off as annoying and needy.

FUCK OFF, STOP POSTING ABOUT THIS DUMB MEME GAME

>posts in less than 30 seconds
What makes you say samefag?

Just barely though, since Toriel actively avoids hitting you at low health, and Omega Flowey shares Asgore's problem, where he does less and less damage as the fight goes on., and the fight is filled with constant checkpoints because heaven forbid the player have to suffer the consequences of not getting good at the game.

I get that it fits his character, but Papyrus at the least could've had a more decent fight, to demonstrate that he had a bit of determination himself as demonstrated with him wanting to join the Royal guard. To me, the fight would've been much better if it had a bit of difficulty from his brother, Sans. Obviously without the karmic retribution or fourth wall breaking, but as a sort of taste of what him and his brother can do. I get that he's an optimistic almost-pacifist monster, but once I found that you couldn't die to him and his special attack wasn't really that special (I guess this was the joke?) there was a bit of tension lost.

user how about you go talk about a game you like?
We're allowed to discuss this game here

quit it

I would argue that Alphys is the best character in the game. Annoying perhaps, but she also had the most time and focus on her character as well as general character growth through your interactions with her thanks to the secret lab.

>Current Year
>Not wanting to fuck Chara

You gay or something?

NO. I HATE IT AND YOU SHOULD HATE IT TOO. IT'S LITERAL TUMBLR SJW FAGGOT TRASH

Did I imagine it, then, that he won't actually kill you unless you're at 1 HP exactly? Because I remember that happening.

And don't get me wrong, I love the buildup around the fight, and Asgore's just too lovable. Even though he's kinda responsible for 6 kids dying, I can understand his situation. It just could've used improvement.

>Fucking a gender ambiguous demon child

Are you the gay?

In the genocide route NPCs will fight differently.
A few of them will refuse to attack you when they will attack you in pacifist or you'll get the chance to kill characters that can't defend themselves.

Except it isn't, there's literally nothing SJW about it

no u

Oh my bad. You're right that no one attack will kill you unless you're at 1 HP.

I guess I can see what you're saying; fights in the game should've been harder. I still died a number of times at Asgore but that's probably just me being shit at the game

You might be right. But I liked Undyne a whole lot more and she had maybe a quarter of the time devoted to developing her character that Alphys did.
Maybe "worst" wasn't the best choice of words. She's just my least favorite by a pretty wide margin.

I'm a guy who loves shmups and bullet hells, so I can get behind what this game wanted to do. So I don't hate it. But I'm also a masochist who loves games that beat me silly and spit on me. Think early Dorf Fortress/ Ninja Gaiden orgies.

Did you play Furi?

>he wasn't able to go undefeated by O flowey

Don't get me wrong, I would steamroll Chara into the fucking dirt regardless of whatever sex they are; that's a promise.

But that's besides the point. It's not even very logical to claim sex with Chara in any state that isn't in a past tense, seeing as how they both died and lost their soul, so the only time you see them in-canon is as a demon.

Now if we're talking about out of canon fanfiction nonsense, I will admit to dabbling in such things, though I've mostly read and written about Frisk.

>Pacifist
Spare the monsters that are trying to kill you
>Neutral
kill the monsters that are trying to kill you
>Genocide
Go out of your way to hunt down every last monster in the game.

Bretty good game. Not a fan of some of its design choices though, but still solid.

The dummy in the dump is probably the funniest thing to happen in the genocide run.

Agree that it would have been nice if Papyrus had some more serious attacks.