Mini-maps are ruining video games

Mini-maps are ruining video games.

The next time you play a game with an immersive world, try not looking at the minimap for 15-30 minutes. You'll realize that you notice a lot more landmarks, paths, turns, and other neat little details in the world.

Most of the time I play a game with a minimap I fall into the trap of looking at the minimap 99% of the time just to get to where I'm going all the time.

This is probably the best feature of the souls series is their complete removal of minimaps.

Are there any other games like this?

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but those paths and landmarks dont matter

>witcher 3
>try to find way to next quest marker
>intensively stare at minimap and move around like playing pacman

all graphics become meaningless at this point

fuck, i know you're right dude, but i just can't imagine not looking at it. i honestly wish games did remove it, because i don't have the willpower to keep myself from using it. the problem is, you also run the risk of missing content or getting lost which is frustrating. i'm trying to imagine playing witcher 3 without a map and i'm pretty sure i'd get lost or stray way too far.

Technically nothing matters in a video game.

I agree with you but I think nowadays people just don't want to be immersed, they need to have the directions to the next exciting event.
And I can understand that, most people don't have that much time for videogames.

What's the point of even having an open world then, just go with a menu/lobby system for the next place you're gonna go.

it's just as bad when it comes to being easy mod, but skyrim doesn't have a mini map

so if the best selling rpg ever doesn't need one, it doesn't seem to be important for sales

Skyrim has a map at start, spoils everything, just like in witcher 3.

game should have map fragments you could buy and cheap ones would be just small inaccurate pieces that are hand drawn.

you dumbas he is right

Back in the day you would get a vague description of where you had to go to do something

so you had to pay attention to everything

what is killing the game are the quest pointers.

You want to see how big of a deal that shit is?

Play divinity original sin as it came out then play the ehanced edition

it makes such a big difference they ruin everything

Just stick a paper over corner of your screen where minimap is.

As for the thread topic, I've played Mad Max without using map at all because it would crash the game and it was immersive as fuck, navigating the desert just using the landmarks on the horizon

It still has a compass that points exactly where you need to go, though.

>fallout 4 quests at start
>small flash video spoils whole quest
>every quest had one

minimap is not the problem, compass is

look at morrowind's minimap, look how little information it provided

>game should have map fragments you could buy and cheap ones would be just small inaccurate pieces that are hand drawn.

I like that idea, makes you spend money on quests if you can't find where to go by yourself. Like some sort of hint for gold.

Underrail has no in-game map or minimap.
It was weird at first not being able to rely on them especially as the game world is an incredibly dense multi-level underground labyrinth but it works brilliantly imo. It's actually satisfying learning to navigate the world without any assistance.

I'd say a combination of quest pointers and minimaps both ruin immersion, but in different ways.

I haven't played EE yet, but original Divinity Sin was fantastic. I got lost all the time until I uncovered every bit of fog I could.

I honestly thing mini-maps should be disabled for MMO's and other online RPG's by default.

Just having to stop a random passerby to ask him for directions to somewhere is a very comfy feeling in an mmo.

I remember back a long time ago, I played a game called The 4th Coming, a shitty little MMORPG.

What stuck with me from that game throughout the years is that the in-game map was just a static image, it didn't show your location on it or anything.

Having to navigate the world by landmarks really added to my immersion, and turned an otherwise mediocre game into something I still remember to this day.

Haven't found another game that did anything similar.

Too bad witcher 3 is a shit game and the NPCs are too lazily written to give you directions to your objective, not that the world isn't just bland shit anyways.

Mad Max has way points, which are even worse.

That something that really hit me about Wrath. Back when I leveled during vanilla we only went with quest descriptions, and by Wrath you had this.

they had quest mods as early as vanilla, so many people used them. that's why it got integrated

I'm really glad Dragon's Dogma doesn't really have this problem since the quest markers are arbitrary and useless anyways, just shut off the minimap and it makes almost no difference aside from not knowing the geography around corners.

I actually kinda agree.

Also I think overworld maps could be limited more. Right now in pretty much every game, the map is basically a GPS that shows you exactly where you are. But I think it would be fun if you had a map that was basically like a real paper map, with no personal indicators, and you just had to work out where you were from your surroundings.

nono its the quest pointers look at morrowind and skyrim same shit. In morrowing you got the description of the palces you were supposed to go while in skyrim its just one sentence go kill x and a pointer appears in the world map

Would you rather that there was no map, until you go and buy one from the vendor, and then its an item in your inventory that you use to bring up a static image on the screen, and you have to guess where you are and where you want to go, and navigate the world like an explorer would?

The video game industry is fueled by casuals.

What the fuck is this Sup Forums

90% on topic discussion

Still not as bad though. I found most people explored a lot more in Skyrim than in any other game because of the lack of clear directional map.

>story says he hid the treasure to unknown location somewhere in northern hemisphere
>objective: Find super secret hidden treasure
>it's here under this rock and here are the GPS coordinates

Stop bumping shit threads.

I agree, navigating Novigrad in TW3 is much easier if you just look at what's in front of you and memorize what the buildings look like, rather than just following the minimap path.

wow is an extremely large open world mmo, dark souls isn't and has limited paths so you cannot get lost.
mini maps are a blessing in many kinds of games, not necessary but god damn does it make a difference.

Mah man, still remember playing that shit on my 56k connection. Good times

I remember that Dragon giving me my first gold

I wouldn't say Morrowind is a good example of this. The in-game directions were utterly vague and useless, so a good minimap or map would had actually improved things. The simple map that came with the manual, although it omitted a lot of details was actually more useful.

WoW could've been better to navigate with signs on all the roads, and being able to ask people for questions, they could answer "follow the road south, then go down the river and look for a tower" or something.
You know, exploration and adventure and shit.

>The in-game directions were utterly vague and useless
?
Why haven't you played Morrowind?

We need to go back.

Morrowind has plenty of vague directions, and some literally wrong directions.

1. Souls games aren't open world that's why it doesn't need mini map
2. These games are designed in mind that you WILL use minimaps so sometimes you put yourself in a rather big disadvantage by not using them

I agree with you though, I'd rather navigate by landmarks and scenery than have my eyes in the corner of my monitor 90% of the time

what an idiotic thing to say. Nobody stares at a minimap 90% of the time.

Maybe Demon's Souls isn't, but the other 4 definitely are.

People certainly do, the worst one is for ARPG's.

This was one of my favorite things about Ark despite it being kinda shitty in other regards. You had to actually landmark and orienteer a little bit to figure out where you were on the map. It was awesome but annoying with my less outdoorsy friends being unable to get used to it. I heard they recently added a marker on the map to show where you were. Was disappointment.

GPS as it's in GTA IV and many games of that genre since is the worst, you don't even think which way to take on the map, just follow the line like a mindless ant

I can only think of 1 wrong direction given.
Care to elaborate?

Even stuff in the middle of nowhere is either marked, or "its nearby from this direction"

Why do we have this thread everyday now?

The breadcrumb trail that some console games have is a way to get rid of the mini map, and its even worse.
I mean the stuff like Witcher 2's medallion, where you get a literal line to follow.

I much prefer The Division's 3D hologram map that appears around your character. Thats another way to avoid a mini map, having the actual map on screen, like Diablo 2 had it.

...

Diablo can be excused though, everything looks the same, maps can be mazelike, the whole point is just to get from point A to B as quickly as possible while killing everything, and you can't even see 10 yards in front of you.

>implying I can't walk from one end of Kalimdor/EK in my mind knowing exactly what each step of the way looks like

Any quest involving this location: en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Drulene_Falen

Any location between Tel Branora, Tel Fyr and Ghostgate

>and being able to ask people for questions, they could answer "follow the road south, then go down the river and look for a tower" or something.
So things that happened?

yeah that's why I wrote it's still easy modo

thing is that the majority of players doesn't (want to) search anything and consequently popular games are built around that

Actual instructions are "north east from here" and thats it.
There are no good, detailed, context sensitive instructions.

Bethesda's space is just filler, it's just a waste of time.

>tfw just leisurely walking from Booty Bay to blood elf starting area

It used to take around 45 minutes, very comfy

>need to join raid in AQ
>31 minute flight path time
time for sleep

...

Unless you go out there and make it yourself, you won't get a decent modern 3d graphics rpg with 60+ hours of quality content and no handholding.

Those simply sell worse than rpgs with 30h of mediocre content and full on handholding plus a marketing budget that is at least as large as the actual development cost.

>Tel Branora, Tel Fyr and Ghostgate
Why did you expect middle of nowhere being easy to find? That is what made those quests good.

They are also marked properly in either journal, quest giver's repeatable lines, or NPC lines.

Walking across Kalimdor isn't as comfy because there's no one clear path nor one clear end in the north. You can start from AQ and go through feralas > desolace > stonetalon> barrens > ashenvale > darkshore for end ? or you can go from Thousand Peaks > barrens > ashenvale > fellwood> winterspring for ending.

I'm not really considering post Cata here because that fucked the whole walking roads up on both continents

I might do this for Guild Wars 2. There are literally waypoints every 15 fucking feet that you can teleport to from anywhere. Disabling the minimap, map, and map travel would be the comfiest thing in the world, and might make this piece of fucking shit game a little more tolerable since I have to actually look at the art assets the designers made.

GW2 is a perfect example of great artists squandered on shittiest game designers. It's a crime that a game this beautiful is such a piece of shit to play

>They are also marked properly in either journal, quest giver's repeatable lines, or NPC lines.
Hahaha.
Also, nice moving goalposts.

no because people would just use maps online or printed and it would put you at a disadvantage in a competitive sandbox type game which is the type of game that would have a no gps map

look at dayz, no one picks up the in game map or uses it because everyone uses website maps that show you good loot spawn locations

the in game map would basically have to be just as good as any website maps people come up with to be viable

also the game would have to have a pretty good antihack because it seems easy to add overlays and shit to mmos

Remember in operation flashpoint, the mission in which you had to navigate using the stars?

That whole game is fantastic if you enjoy navigating and exploring, you can turn off your player indicator on the map in the options

>Any quest involving this location: en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Drulene_Falen
You sure? I just did the mudcrab one not even 10 minutes ago, and they were exactly where I was told they were.

>give casual wow fags Morrowind style journals
>no minimap or quest icons

Good way to kill off 70% of the people playing retail WoW

I see what you mean about the minimap though, its like in Diablo 3 when I'm playing I just stare at the minimap because the screen becomes a cluster fuck of monsters and explosions in higher level rifts

Been playing Vanilla wow for a few days getting ready for Nost relaunch and you don't need the minimap as much because there isn't quest markers/marks for quest givers and if you accidentally walk into a pack of gnolls or some shit they will strip your armor off and fuck you till death

There was no goalpost move
Your statement is still
>Morrowind has plenty of vague directions
Which isn't really true.
The vaguest shit in the game, is a Telvanni quest where you look to steal a bow.

I disagree. GTA IV and V had very memorable cities. I can navigate both without GPS and rarely ever use waypoints.

If you want to see an end to the hand-holding tendencies of maps, compasses and waypoints, then better level design is the key.

>all that steampunk shit they forced into the lore
>aether pirate faggotry
>never-ending amounts of obvious SJW bullshit

GW didn't deserve this

Depends on world design.
There exists games without clear enough landmarks for such a thing to be effective.

There also exists games like Soul Reaver, where the world map is a pain to navigate, but at the least NPC's repeat their directional statements, so its a good game.

I liked the steampunk shit, Asura magic technology can go die in a fire however, computers have no place in fantasy

Ultima Online had a mini map so what's your point

Diablo is a procedurally generated maze so yes you need a goddamn map