Why is it worse than OoT and MM?

Why is it worse than OoT and MM?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=N_RLDDly1tc
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

It's ok. A bit too easy. The wolf parts, the horrible pacing in general. Too slow to start. Mirrored wii version, waggle shit. It should have stayed in GC only. Also it was too easy, probably due to their new casual focus on Wii. WW was also easy but at least it fits with the artistic design of the game. Also a bit ugly.

Because it was made after 2001 and especially because it was made after 2003.

This. The wolf parts of the game were ham fisted in without game design accomodating them. It loses a lot of points for the poorly implemented feature alone. Castlevania LoD did this and while TP did it better, it's still not good enough.

-The levels were too long and too bland, either big repetitive circles stacked on top of each other (Water Temple) or making you do the most backwards paths and puzzles to get to the most simple area (the Ice Mansion)
-Tons of fucking sliding block or other 'puzzles'. Sliding block or memory puzzles do not belong in an action game. They don't belong in Resident Evil and they don't belong in Zelda. Its not a matter of difficulty, but about them being just empty filler. Especially two statues who know you are the chosen hero, but make you do a dumb mirror puzzle anyway.
-Link swings his sword like a fucking mace instead of slashing and stabbing like a sword is suppose to. And even with the bigger swings and slower attacks, it still takes him twice as many attacks to kill an enemy than Link from any other Zelda games.
-Every NPC has more dialogue than the Owl in Ocarina of Time.
-Every single area you enter triggers a cutscene. And often trigger new cutscenes when returning.
-There is zero exploration since the game directly tells you where to go. As well as blocking you from going anywhere else by 'Twilight' walls. Remember when Zelda used to be about exploration?
-The overworld is a small, pointless HUB. So pointless, you're given a warp function to avoid it.
-The music, aside from a handful of songs, is the most bland in the series.
-The dark atmosphere just looks like grey shit.
-The wolf segments drag on and Link is even weaker as a Wolf
-Link howling out old OoT songs and talking to his dead ancestor to learn new moves could have been done much better. It just comes off as a really forced homage to Ocarina of Time (just like the overall design of the game).
-Every character is ugly as sin. Who the heck designed this?
-There's little motivation to keep going on aside from wanting to get to the next Midna cutscene. Midna is really the only interesting character in a game full of endless NPC dialogue.

Great write-up

But even Midna isn't interesting

tl;dr
post more midna

best dungeons in the series

best ganon fight

debate me

>best dungeons in the series
no
>best ganon fight
no
>debate me
no

Because the dungeons are the worst in the series.

nice argument faglord, you sure convinced me with those shit opinions

No dungeon warping.
No nonlinear dungeons.

Once you have the Master Sword there's no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to pursue the Twilight Mirror shards you want. Even if you can't beat the dungeon itself because you need to go in order, they should let you try to go as far as you can.

I can understand TWW being linear, because of the emphasis on story it had, but TP? No excuse.

>-The levels were too long and too bland, either big repetitive circles stacked on top of each other (Water Temple) or making you do the most backwards paths and puzzles to get to the most simple area (the Ice Mansion)
>-Tons of fucking sliding block or other 'puzzles'. Sliding block or memory puzzles do not belong in an action game. They don't belong in Resident Evil and they don't belong in Zelda. Its not a matter of difficulty, but about them being just empty filler. Especially two statues who know you are the chosen hero, but make you do a dumb mirror puzzle anyway.

Good thing you didn't play OoT obviously, the whole water temple was backtracking and block puzzles. Nitpicking aside, the story was the blandest part of TP the gameplay and level design was fun and infinitely better than skyward sword even with the older animations.

Now that I think about it, did this have the best 3D zelda combat (Gamecube version)? Just by process of elimination?

>-Every NPC has more dialogue than the Owl in Ocarina of Time.
Oh god, this. Just shut up already and let me find shit on my own.

The Water Palace in TP was obviously trying to mimic the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time. But that's the problem. It was trying to imitate something that was already done before. At best, it would have triggered some nostalgia in people. But at worst, it could be seen as inferior to the thing it was imitating. And it turned out to be the worse option.

it was nothing like it though, other than being in the lake

because those two games are PERFECT

Sky temple was pretty amazing with the dual hooks, desert temple was pretty fun even if the item was super gimicky, and the temple of time was good also.

PROVE ME WRONG.

Fuck long intro, tears of light, empty ass world, and not enough side quests
I mean a little bit of trimming in the main quest and rounding out the content would have done wonders yet that seems to be the major problem with more and more Zelda games

It seems like Midna imp form and Midna normal form were designed by two different people.

And having to go to one level and press a switch to change something on a higher/lower level.

sounds like any 3D zelda dungeon ever

Gameplay
>linear dungeons
>simplified gameplay mechanics (no magic, no manual shielding, no instrument)
>structure far too similar to Ocarina
>Twilight Realm bug hunts
>wolf was bad

Story
>Zant was trash
>No characters except Midna and Zant had any development
>Pursuing Mirror Shards didn't feel important
>What did Ganon want?

Visuals
>Shit art style
>Horrible compared to graphics on PS3 and Xbox 360 in 2006

Sound
>Bad Hyrule Field theme

TP had its fair share of shitty puzzles but have we forgotten the

>hit the button with a projectile to open the door

"puzzles" from the N64 games?

It has the best dungeons in the series, best items, and Midna is the best Zelda character by far. Besides that it's really bad compare to those two.

Those might be stupid but they only take a second to get through

>what did Ganon want?

Same thing he's always wanted. How is it that even a question. After WW I was fine with them just sticking with an original villain though. Really disappointed that he was in initially but his fights weren't too bad at least.

Whatever you say chief.

You mean shooting a statue with an arrow? That started in Link to the Past. And is still more interesting than most of the sliding block and statue puzzles in Aonouma games.

Those weren't puzzles, they were practice for those times you had to do it while timed/moving

>best dungeons in the series
This isn't a link to the past
>best ganon fight
Its a tie between this one and OOT for me

I think this game's Zelda was the least relevant out of them all. The princess character that mattered was an imp waifu and Link had a childhood friend character to fill in for some quasi-romance.

That's exactly what made it great. It wasn't the same tired old shit, the dungeons had a lot more originality to them.

Oh boy please tell me what Zelda games you liked seeing how you have so many problems with this game alone.

dungeons were fun but the overworld was pretty ass

She was unless of course you want a well written character not found in any Zelda game.

Tutorial leaves a bad taste. Otherwise it is better.

I personally enjoyed Wind Waker's more.

Because of the tune that played when you successfully hit.

Zelda 1 = Ocarina of Time > Link's Awakening > Zelda 2 > Link Between Worlds = Link to the Past > Oracles > Skyward Sword = Minish Cap = Wind Waker > Majora's Mask > Spirit Tracks > Phantom Hourglass = Twilight Princess

U mad away. Its not going to change my taste.

>-The overworld is a small, pointless HUB. So pointless, you're given a warp function to avoid it.
I can't wait for BoTW where the world is a big, pointless HUB, so pointless that you get a warp function to avoid it.

I thought that was annoying as hell.

It very well could be. Or it might actually have substance to it and be worth playing. You can't say either way just like I can't. Not until we play it.

>extremely protracted and boring exposition
>combat is dull and unchallenging like WW, no enemies have shields and your hits stun so you just spam attacks
>no exploration at all, map is segregated by walls and you're forced to a linear path
>shoehorned in superfriends NPC club that ruins the enjoyable
>too many gameplay interruptions from picking up rupees or items, mailman subjects you to cutscenes, etc
>items are way too limited in usage, items like the dominion rod serve as just plot coupons to open a door instead of having any general or combat usage
>the worst bosses in the series, they don't even fight back, they either pause 20 seconds between attacks (armogohma, argorok) or don't even have attacks at all (morpheel)
>game's production values are extremely overproduced with cringy sword flairs and a plot that keeps trying to one-up itself with "fight the big bad! now ganon! now zelda! now ganondorf!" to the point its just overkill
>attempted grimdark aesthetics ruined by shit like faggoty clowns
>overworld is entirely barren, areas like gerudo desert are just completely monotonous, featureless, nothing to do
>grottos just have rupees and chuchus, theres no reason to find them


No, ocarina of time had the best 3d combat by a mile compared to Toilet Paper and the other craps
Majora's Mask had nearly as good combat as OOT but less emphasis on it, less humanoid enemies, more cinematic instead of mechanical battles, worse bosses and child link had worse combat than adult link so eh

in terms of combat:

OOT > MM >> TP >>> WW >> SS

Not him, but I respect your opinion.

Hey man, if you have shit taste there's nothing I can do about that :/.

TP, SS, and MM are the best Zelda games.

OoT and WW are bad

They ruined what they had going by making Ganon the mastermind sadly.

because it's just a rehash of ocarina but with terrible wolf shit

Forced wolf segments that feel~ forced.
Less charm.
Tries to be dark, but actually isn't as grim as OoT or MM.
Presents less of a challenge than OoT or MM -- and those games weren't particularly challenging.

It gets a lot of flack because it happens to be in one of the greatest franchises in gaming, but it's still a worthwhile and fun game. It just lacked the originality of the three console games that preceded it.

>The seemless revolutionary transition into 3D that spawned countless imitators with OoT

>The metaphorical and existential horror of Majora's Mask

>The focused charm and open spirituality of the Wind Walker

>The "we looked at gamefaqs and saw fans wanted _____ so we put it in please buy the Wii" of Twilight Princess

Why do people like Link's Awakening so much? the Oracle games are way better.

Midna never made a move on Link other than the scene in the desert. I thought the story handled that aspect pretty maturely.

Wasn't TP the answer to backlash of negativity they got from WW? Like if it wasnt for TP doing as well as it did, the series could have ended up like F-Zero or Metroid.

People were criticizing WW for being too bright, cheery and cartoony so they had to whip up a more darker serious Zelda, no?

I remember reading about the reviews

>this time you get to play and Link as you NEVER seen him BEFORE
>he is MUCH older than any previous Link
I remember reading along the lines of that as it being one of the selling points for it

Having to wait for certain types of enemies to make a move got a bit tedious. If the enemies were more aggressive, and the framerate were higher, it would have been GOAT.

They are, LA was just a pretty comfy story where the hero had a personal journey to go through a dream world. It resonated well with a lot of people.

As someone who played both oracles games three times each and then played LA, FUCK no.
There's dozens of enemies exclusive to LA that show up in neither of the oracle games.

I liked Wind Waker's Link. He was so cynical.

It was like ten times easier (because the old water temple was entirely artificial difficulty), more straightforward and had more puzzle variety. If anything it was better than what it was mimicking.

Link's Awakening is played by far more people. Its also self contained while the Oracle games relied on both games to be good. And many people end up thinking one of the two Oracle games are weak.

I liked the Oracle games for all the throwbacks to the original Zelda. But in terms of game mechanics, Link's Awakening is hard to surpass. Its hard to imagine how tightly they packed content in the small world, even to this day.

Why is LA higher than LTTP?

Don't remember that in WW unless you're talking about other games.

>It was like ten times easier
Usually people list this as a negative, not a positive. But okay.

>(because the old water temple was entirely artificial difficulty)
No it wasn't.

>more straightforward and had more puzzle variety.
>more straightforward
>and more variety
Uh...are you just making shit up?

Because I enjoyed Link's Awakening more?

>Having to wait for certain types of enemies to make a move got a bit tedious. If the enemies were more aggressive, and the framerate were higher, it would have been GOAT.
there are items you gain to get past defensive enemies. A skullwalltula can be tedious at first, but then you get the bow and can just shoot it down later.

OOT had the most aggressive enemies of ANY 3d zelda, so dunno what you can compare it to. TP, WW & SS all had extremely pathetic and slow enemies who dawdled around waiting for you to hit them. MM had less aggressive enemies than OOT, no stalfos, more chuchus

Child Link in WW, MM and OOT has this Straight Man type of personality, usually when he's interacting with NPCs with strange behaviors. he'll make faces, slowly back away, etc.

Not that user but I at least remember WW Link dreading to put on the Link cosplay that his grandmother made. Makes you wonder why he didn't eventually change out of it.

No the timelines fallow similar themes/colors/atmosphere. TP was just next on the list after MM, of course it was going to be darker than WW.

Yet MM bosses end up being more difficult and fast paced than OOT's. I'd say Majora is the hardest 3D Zelda final boss because of its three forms, fast movement and insane damage output.

It is more challenging.

there wasnt such thing as a time line for nintendo. During the time of TP they did not have the zelda timeline as a whole in mind when they were developing it. they only made that just so the fans can shut up about it and give it some kind of cohesive answer

Easier is better when it isn't forcing artificial difficulty. Trying to figure out the right order of block pushing to drain the right places is a bitch in OoT and requires you looping the same 3 hallways on 3 floors over and over. TP actually had you progress through puzzles instead of arbitrarily having them scattered across the dungeons. OoT had pushblocks, arrow switches, and floor switches. TP at least mixed those up along with raising stairs, water gysers, spinning wheels etc. Plus morpheel was an awesome boss.

dark link >

but anyway aside from exceptions like dark link, zelda bosses don't usually involve the normal combat mechanics, they're gimmick fights, some have better gimmicks than others. Twilight princess had the absolute worst offenders in armogohma and argorok and worst of all morpheel, who doesn't even have any aggressive or reactive behavior at all, it just swims in circles

MM had decent bosses but OOT's package with the likes of volvagia, ganon, bongo bongo, etc was better. Might not stack up 1:1 but there were more good ones than just 5 in majora's mask, when gyorg and twinmold were both awful

Nah TP was Nintendo's attempt to please the fans wanting another game closer to OoT but I can tell they didn't like the project. It seems to me they started things without a clear vision but as they developed the game they decided to finish with moderate effort in game design.

Yes they did.. Zelda 1 & 2 are fucking canonically sequels way before OoT was even made.. The part that people are confused about the timeline due to it splitting isn't an argument for it not existing pre-WW&TP

Yeah, but Volvagia and Ongo Bongo weren't as difficult as any MM boss. I know difficult combat isn't one of the draws of this series, but no 3D Zelda aside from some of the later WW bosses have gotten as intense as MM's bosses.
youtube.com/watch?v=N_RLDDly1tc

Its the only Zelda game I've played, but the pacing is off. Before the wolf thing happens, the game feels so fucking dead. You can do so much more on a GTA game / explore, or just move around before proceeding with the plot, but on TP it felt sooo fucking linear.

After the lynk guy turns into wolf, I still think it was bad, it was confusing for me as I didn't understand anything about the story. I tried to play it for a while, but I seriously couldn't just bother with it after some point, way too confusing.

The only good thing in TP is the spinner and midna porn. I'm certain you can think of more positive points for both OOT and MM easily.

What is?

Morpheel's second form sucked though. It barely tries to attack the player. I think Nintendo should have improved underwater combat to accomodate the part of the battle. I imagine this is why morpheel didn't try to attack the player. Another way would've been to do what you did with argorok here and use the hookshot to dodge attacks. Argorok could have switched things up to make the battle more interesting. BotW will do much better imo because now they can even go with MH combat for dragons.

Wolf

WW had only two moderately challenging bosses. The wind temple boss and puppet ganon.

LA's my favorite. I've played the oracle games twice, but I never actually beat them. I might pick it up again sometime, but I doubt I'll like them more, but I should actually beat them. I've beaten far worse games after all.

Play WW or OoT 3DS if you want a decent 3D Zelda. I'd say Majora's Mask too but no offense if you found TP confusing that one probably isn't for you.

Worse than Ocarina of Time? Yes.

Worse than Majora's Mask? No.

t. underaged.

I'm likely older than you are.

Majora's Mask is terrible and is a Zelda for people who hate Zelda.

Even those two were easier than anything MM had for a boss.

difficulty isn't a good measure though. Twinmold and Gyorg were embarrassingly poorly designed bossfights, they sucked even with the remakes to make them slightly better in MM3D.

The only good bossfights in all of MM were Odolwa, Goht & Majora. Thats only 2 combat fights, Goht was a racing minigame.

OOT only had a small number of bad bosses, none as bad as MM's stinkers. Morpha was way too easily cheesed and took too long to telegraph its attacks, phantom ganon was a god tier fight and the only thing wrong with it was that it was recycled again with real ganon, but that was done so sparingly and made perfect since unlike say ghirahim phase #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (and imprisoned #1, 2, 3)

No

Yes.

>simple time mechanics are too hard for me

I haven't got 3DS, only N64 and Wii. Maybe if the Switch turns out good I might play the new game.

Sadly never got to play the N64 Zeldas even though I loved the system.

You're just like me then when I started playing Zelda games. I started with OoT and was pretty confused about the world I was in. I think just about every Zelda game after OoT will confuse you until you get used to certain parts of the franchise like npc, game mechanics, etc.

______________________________________________

____________________________________________________________________________________________No_____________________________________________________________________________

You can emulate the original N64 titles pretty easily these days at least. You'll need a usb gamepad though.

The MM version of some bosses were worse except maybe Gyorg. I didn't really have an issue with any boss in the n64 version but they were more challenging than WW's boss fights.

*3DS version

A game that has the vast majority of its content as side quests combined with a mechanic that discourages actual exploration is everything that Zelda shouldn't be.

If you like Majora's Mask, you hate Zelda. Maybe you should play another game series instead of polluting discussion of a series you don't like.

All 3D Zeldas follow a structure closer to OoT. MM is a game that tries to do something different and people still bitch about it. If it's like OoT people still complain. Personally, the only thing I didn't like about MM was the recycled assets.