ITS FUCKIN RUINED

ITS FUCKIN RUINED
youtube.com/watch?v=VQxpKxYx0T4

Gear's most important stat nowadays is fucking item level

yeah it matters, you wont get into dungeon without ilvl

>t: sub 880 shitter

You just proved my point. Before this retarded MUH ILVL craze started no one gave a fuck what your ilvl was and didn't particularly give a shit about your gear either, as long as it was enough for whatever you wanted to do. Now it's HAHA FUCKING SUB 9001 SHITTER MUH ILVL MOTHAFUKA

Dude this game has been ruined since wotlk, both gameplay wise and storywise since they rounded up a lot of the WC3 lore.
You shouldn't be surprised for those reasons alone, but also because wow dev's clearly just do not care about the community. Look at what they did to warlocks in the beginning of legion? Needed a complete 15% damage buff across all specs just to be viable because the devs didn't listen to feedback from the beta.
Stop playing or go play one of the older private servers which are free and more fun than retail.
Either way stop making autistic threads like these.

it always was

just because earlier on you couldn't "see" itemlevel in the same way doesn't mean it wasn't there

kind of distracts from the fantasy of it all when you see ilvl plastered everywhere.

>Belo'vir's Final Stand
>Stand

Is this a jojo reference?

The reason for this is because even in WoD there was a certain skill floor to playing classes.
Item level could only help you so much if you couldn't play your class perfectly.
Now the game has been dumbed down so much that anyone can mash out their 3 button rotation. Hell a some classes like Marksman Hunter don't let you make mistakes by only giving you one GCD filler move and outing everything else on a CD.
All that matters is item level because that's the only thing that separates DPS now.

>no one gave a fuck what your ilvl was and didn't particularly give a shit about your gear either

>gear has diminished effect in PvP
>this is supposed to be bad

lol

Seriously why not just scale everyone to the same set ilvl during PVP content? What is wrong with that?

I can tell you don't play the game because you'd know that really shitty players stick out like a sore thumb on dem meters.

dude gearscore has been a big deal since wotlk

>guild wars 2 style gearing
oh wow there goes half the fun of an RPG, the gearing, and, in MMO's case, gear treadmilling.

That's not 100% true. It's mostly true, but back in the day it was common enough that a lower ilvl piece would be better itemised for your spec than a higher ilvl one and thus be better for you.

RPG part of WoW has long since been ruined and gearing is fucking dumb nowadays.

Because it would remove one big part of incentive and progression.

>but back in the day
implying haste is good for assassination rogues, etc.
stat weights matter my dude.

WoW players don't PvP for a balanced competition, they PvP so they can beat down people with less gear than them

theres no incentive and progression in legion pvp

whenever they didn't have itemization down to a fucking cemented science it wasn't always the case

>NO KING RULES FOREVER, MY SON

Huh? It's the opposite. ilvl (or raw stat total) used to be much more important because secondary stats carried less weight and you could reforge poor secondaries into your best ones, thus 99% of the time the higher ilvl item was the better item.

Only with Legion did the split get this drastic that you can have an item be 20 or 30 ilvl better than another, yet be a DPS loss. Which I don't necessarily think is bad in general, but when it gets this crazy I think it is a problem.

Gear hasn't mattered in this game for a long fucking time now.

Whats the fucking point of grinding when next patch/expansion will reset your progression to 0 thanks to welfare items that come with every patch and an excess of catch up mechanics.

WOW is a massive clusterfuck, there is no sense of progression, the quest is dead, replaced by an endless grind, now they're phasing out ilvl, which makes sense, artifacts are just a massive level grind.

Say what you want about old WOW, at least the progression system was solid and actaully made you feel like you were acomplishing something in overall game, now its just "Hey, grind this pointless number that we'll reset every patch like its a fucking diablo season"

>really shitty players
Yeah only the really shitty players do.
Trying to spot the differences between an average player and a god tier world first player is almost impossible right now due to how easy all the classes are to play.

>I can tell you don't play the game
Mythic EN cleared on week two.
I've dropped this shit game for FFXIV though. Raiding is so much better across the board.

PVP shouldn't serve as progression for gear. It should be turned into challenge mode tier rewards and give aesthetics/mounts. Balancing gear around a mini-game has NEVER been a good idea.

As opposed to other seasons? I don't think that's true. You stil get your mount and title and stuff, just gear is less important.

I think he's talking about 'back in the day' when you couldn't reforge, because then it used to be true.

What the fuck's reforging?

This. FUCK Wod pvp it was the most retarded shit possibly ever in the game. "Evolving gear" that would turn you into a mythic raider in wpvp just because you sat in trashcan for a day was totally gay af baka desu senpai

Good riddence

Ilvl has been cancer since its iteration.

Too bad we've gone far and beyond any sense of having interesting and diverse statlines and builds in WOW anymore to bring back min-maxing characters with fun builds rather then generic homoginized crap.

A system introduced in Cata and removed in WoD that allowed you to remove some secondary stats from an item and add a different stat in return.

>mounts and titles are progression

Your gear plays the game for you entirely, you are merely just carrying it around from place to place.

I don't know why you people still play this garbage.

Legion has its fair share of specs with diverse statlines. I know I'm kept busy juggling haste, crit and versatility on my ret.

Um those rewards should be enough, it takes little effort to set up a pvp team as opposed to a raid team. Be lucky you still get anything for playing your minigame.

They're incentives.
PvP progression has always been gear progression, actually in that regard Legion has more to offer with its PvP talent tree and prestige grind.

>tfw no mmorpg with D2-tier builds to fuck around on and play with

Welcome to RPGs?

Problem is WOW made classes not matter at all, just your raw DPS output, or HPS output, or your ability to not go afk from pressing 3 buttons for hours, aka tanking.

>neo-Sup Forums needs some e-celeb clickbait video to confirm that WoW is shit

Fucking genius guys, really.

at some point in... TBC? WotLK? People made mods that showed you ilvl anyway. Everyone had them installed and checked your entire loadout. It's not actually something new.

thanks god im not playing this shit game anymore, enough is enough

thats sad that people dont realize that there was a point in time where you had to do shit like farm specific resistance gear for certain encounters.

Now its just equip the stuff with highest ivl

Yes, but thats because you're playing ret, and you can only play ret one way.

Meanwhile in vanilla you could stack spellpower and become a tanky caster.

Also don't give me that crap, New WOW is all about ilvl.

>dumb samposter thinks he's not neo-Sup Forums as fuck complaining about e-celebs while posting e-celebs

good shit

>crit vers haste
>literally only 3-4 stats that every class stacks

Because farming res gear was great fun.
If you miss endless grind for specific items, Legion has that. Most specs have their best in slot trinkets drop from mythic+ dungeons.

Are warlocks still awful in PvE?

Yes the franchise was ruined on the release of vanilla wow

there weren't items in a fantasy game back then that exist to increase your item's ilvl you dumb fuck.

>being nostalgic for farming resistance gear

oh, fuck off

i appreciate how gear was very diverse back in vanilla but that shit was awful

It's funny because most mobile rpg games simplify their stats to something like attack and defense power. WoW is pretty much on the same level now.

what does that have to do with anything?

No, people had a website, that gleened the armory, that checked your gear for shit like
>This isn't socketed
>not hit capped
>boots not enchanted

That was in BC anyway

WOTLK stats became so streamlined, since str, stam, int, and spellpower were based on raw ilvl that they could create mods that just simplified the game into the storm of gearscore bullshit.

>Hey lets do this raid for gear
>But you have to outgear it sorry

that it absolutely destroys the fucking fantasy of the game when something as mechanical and what's basically there to help developers out is the game's most important stat

They're boring as fuck to play, so yes

Like I said, especially in Legion it's not about ilvl because secondary stats are so important. It's hard to argue this when even Blizz adressed this.

>Meanwhile in vanilla you could stack spellpower and become a tanky caster.
You mean an ineffective caster?

This is what sort of makes me a little sad. Legion raids are definitely pretty good but you don't really need to work at trying to get ready for them. Do a bunch of M+ and gear your shit up, hardest part to gear is probably trinkets but that's it. Legion has been doing a better job at making more interesting gear but eh it could still be better. Older patches of WoW had quirky items that still were useful I sort of miss that.

Also versatility is the most boring stat in the game I wish blizzard would just remove it. Its like the only stat that doesn't show any active improvement to your character. Resistances were more fun than this.

no legion doesnt you dumbshit. There is a huge difference between farming for asscandy in bwl which has preset stats and the encounter takes a raid amount of effort and then theres legion where you just spam every difficulty of a raid for a piece drop because there is no set ilvl/stats to the gear so you can end up getting the best version of the item from fucking lfr.

>being so new that he thinks there never was a time before "samposting"

all it does is reveal something that was always there

the fact that people made mods to do the same shit just shows that people knew anyway

Probably because their head PVE designer is a lawyer by trade and not a game designer, and the mythical "A team" actually quit years ago to work on overwatch, or left the company by now.

Honestly, I hope Pardo does something interesting with his company bonfire.

what? where in my post did you find that implication

>Blizzard will literally never EVER make legacy servers.

but lets say they did, how would they do it?

This is because they never stuck primaries and rings and necks. Secondary scaling on gear is still kinda low, Primary scaling is fucking absurd though.

I don't remember many people using that site in wotlk. Most of the time it was either 'link achi' or during naxx 'link half [Epic]'

GS came around during ICC. I still don't understand why Blizzard said no to that addon but then added in their own item level anyway.

Social networks before Facebook were a thing too, doesn't mean that there isn't a huge difference about having things shoved in your fucking face.

That's petty. It's mathematical certainty that the best loot drops from the hardest difficulty for most players. The chance for upgrades isn't a negative just because one extremely lucky guy might get one great item in LFR.

>spam every difficulty of a raid for a piece drop because there is no set ilvl/stats to the gear so you can end up getting the best version of the item from fucking lfr.
Wait what. I haven't played WoW in years. What happened now.

so? why couldn't the devs keep on designing the game as if those mods didn't exist? why did the devs jump on the retarded gearscore/ilvl craze? all it did was hurt the game in the long run

Vanilla WoW and even BC is total garbage compared to modern MMOs, take off your nostalgia goggles.

It was part of the progression

They didn't have to gate shit back then, you could grind the gear and attempt the bosses

Even more so, you actually did different content to get that gear, because bosses themselves were gates, now the only gate is your ilvl and raw DPS, which you only get by grinding the same fucking content on a lower difficulty.

honestly think wow raids would be better in using musou mechanics now - i don't think currently having a bunch of pointless mobs to faceroll some aoe and then some sub par boss does it anymore. There should be tons of mobs and a few boss in the middle i'd say it would be much more entertaining

OH BOY I SURE LOVE MY INSTANCED, PHASED AND CROSS REALMED FAGGOTFEST OF A MODERN """MMO"""

>Every video ever linked is cancerous clickbait e-celeb shilling

reeeeeeeeeeeee
autism

>Vanilla WoW and even BC is total garbage compared to modern MMOs, take off your nostalgia goggles.

question - what modern mmos?

item level was always on the gear nigger. stat budget and ilvl are also similar, if one has more combined mainstat/secondary stat than another, it is guaranteed to be higher ilvl.

hahahaha

wrath is better then them all

so you're just upset that items say "ilvl" on them now?

developers were never developing the game "as if these mods didn't exist", all the mods did was more obviously show something that's on the developer's tables when designing items in the first place

in fact, more recent item changes like having various ilvls for one item probably make the gear you have more diverse even if the stats themselves are neutered

the neutering is bad (especially with regards to weapons) but not having BiS for everything is not a bad thing

Raids have difficulty and the itemlvl (raw stats) on loot scale with the difficulty.
Any item has a a diminishing chance to be a higher ilvl in increments of 5. So in theory, an ilvl 835 LFR item has an 0.0000000001% chance to roll a +60 Titanforged ilvl 895 version.

And that apparantly makes that other user very butthurt.

>yfw the golden era of mmo's was when "high-speed" online was just becoming a thing so people weren't super bitchy about 0.0001ms
>yfw wow capitalized on this and made a fun explorable world based on interesting warcraft lore at the start of vanilla
>yfw that sense of exploring a world with so many people, for the first time, will never come back even with new mmo's because its already been done, people are used to massively-multiplayer environments now
>yfw the golden age of mmos is over until some real vr stuff (not the headsets, i mean like sao/log horizon-style shit) becomes real

feelsbadman
but I'm glad I was there for the peak of the wave

Ah yes, all modern mmos with either dead playerbases or disgusting anime trash that no adult would ever consider playing.

>Be me
>Start playing wow
>No idea wtf im doing
>Spend the next 3 weeks playing it evey minute getting my shaman panda to level 80
>Fuckit.jpeg
>Buy legion
>Fuck yes this is fun asf
>LITERALLY THE NEXT DAY
>no drive to play
>Never touch it again
>Let my month sub run out
>never tell my new wow friend
>Regret intensely i ever started playing

>LFM VoA Link GS 5.5k+
It was always there in wow, but now it's a game mechanic instead of an addon

wow holy shit that fucking oversimplification

will never ever play wow again ever

dead game

But this same shit applies to Legendaries and of course it's shitty. There shouldn't be any chance for some LFR retard to get that gear, especially because the system has an impact on all gear and gearing, turning it into an RNG shitfest.

that doesn't sound like the game's problem but your ADD and/or depression

>t was always there in wow
t. wotlk baby

It was always on the gear sure. Although I remember as a fury warrior using leather pieces lower ilvl with more arpen on gear that I currently had.

Do you even remember? No ones saying gear didn't have ilvl just that people asked for other things instead.

>5 buttons to spam
>1 stat to worry about

ebin

>There shouldn't be any chance for some LFR retard to get that gear

in theory an idiot can sit in LFR and get a full 895 decked out character

in practice that takes a fucking century to do, so that point is kind of moot

one question: why don't they go back to vanilla gearing? it was the best they had ever done and won't do any better

Again, petty. Other people getting gear generally doesn't affect you.

Randomnes in getting crucial gear -especially legendaries- is an issue, I agree. Blizz has tried to fix that somewhat by trying to get all legendaries closer together in terms of power, but I don't think it's enough yet.

Yeah a bit of both maybe

>Hay guis r u hear

Faggot.

I wanna get fucked by a worgen

> muh normative statement about pvp

fuck off, gear progression is why you play 50 fucking battlegrounds a day

the gear gap should taper off over time, but you rush to get ahead when a tier is released

yeah dude 80% of all gear being completely retarded was awesome
I sure miss spirit